US Political Thread

[M. A. Dockter]

Let this be the <b><i><u><font size="4">ONLY</font></b></i></u> political thread in the Gen forum to be used any longer. I was hoping, along with many others, that they would be over today, but it looks like it'll take up to another 2 weeks for the State of Florida to recount votes and answer all questions of voting procedures in their state.

For those of you that don't know the US, Florida is that Peninsula in the southeast, that points south to Cuba.

This is not only for my sanity, but for the sanity of all other people that don't care anymore. I'm sorry for any troubles people will have. I will no close all recent political threads. If you have any questions or concerns with this, please e-mail me at <a href="mailto:mdockter@pcmech.com">mdockter@pcmech.com</a>

To start this thread out...I've heard the re-count in FL could take up to 2 weeks, but as short as 2 more hours...what's the deal with that?

[M. A. Dockter]

Also...WI (my home state) and IA are very close, and if Gore wins FL, bush might call for re-counts in those two states.

[jessho]

I don't know about other states, but Texas has some counties that have write-in ballots. They take longer to tabulate, but two weeks seems a little too long.

[Karel]

1 thread = 1 good idea

edited as per GLC's request, see below

[Edited by Karel on 11-08-2000 at 10:29 AM]

[PeteS99]

I don't see why it wasnt counted properly the FIRST time! They could recount every state and who knows what would happen..

[Karel]

Difference in Iowa : 0.403 %
Difference in Wisconsin : 0.242 %
(according to CNN site)

Do they also have a state law that imposes a recount?

[Byte 2.0]

There were places in Tn that the Polls opened with out the book of Names, I saw on TV I forgot which City, but A-F weren't able to vote.

What is thi mess in FL, They said that Gore and Buncann's names where misplace and votes for Gore went to Buncann..

Yes I know I misspelled his name, but they say that is about 3,500 votes, enought to change things around.

Plus do you think the electoral voting system needs to be re-thought. Most popular=the loser... That an't right....

Plus for those of you that don't know much about Tennessee, We consider it the 3 states of Tennesse, East, middle, and West...

plus all the news media in East Tennessee has been and is still pro-Bush. East Tennessee seemed to me to be pro Bush, while middle and west tennessee seemed more Gore.

Now, I am left with these questions, What promises did Bush make to Us again.

Personally, I can't see how Bush(R) was able to Take Tennessee after our Governor has just spend the last 2 years trying to Raise Taxes, while most of our Reps were saying no.

Also Tennessee has been messed up in other ways, such as I have seen people driving around with PRO Bush, Pro Gore sticker on there cars...What Gives there.?

Also with Coal Unions in both TN and KY, Gore saying he would protect unions.

Heck, Tennessee is a rural state for the most part, and they announced the Bush won Tennessee with in minutes of the polls closing, I know they is no way they had enough votes counted to declare that...

I didn't do an Exit poll, did you?

[Edited by byte on 11-08-2000 at 10:19 AM]

[glc]

The reason that the recount may take 2 weeks is because Florida absentee balloting law allows for ballots to be counted that are *postmarked* up till poll closing time, and may be actually received up to 10 days later. For our overseas military residents, the mail can actually take that long to reach here.

pete: I have no doubt that they were reasonably accurately counted the first time, but Florida law mandates a recount when it's this close.

dok: WI and IA still would not be enough in that scenario - Bush would have to win OR fair and square too, and OR is going to be a while to determine due to mailin ballots.

Let's keep this thread open - and I personally would like to see that people keep it to procedural issues such as have been addressed so far and NOT "Bush vs. Gore". I have had enough of the politicking and its OVER except for the final count.

[Karel]

glc,

I edited my earlier post to cut the joke out. Satisfied?

[Byte 2.0]

Just Think, I can see the T-Shirts now,

<center>
Front
<B>Leave it up to Florida</B>

Back
<B>What were we thinking?</B>

Or
Back
<B>What were we Smoking?</B>
</center>

[glc]

Karel: I was not pointing at your joke at all! Sorry if you saw it that way but it was unintentional. I do thank you for being considerate.

[glc]

Latest word from Florida - a recount of all votes "in hand" must be completed by close of business tomorrow by the respective county election supervisors. This does not include absentee ballots postmarked by yesterday that are not yet received - they have a 10 day grace period to arrive.

I personally can't foresee a final decision for 10 days - it's THAT close.

[drisley]

I must say, I am suprised it is this close. I thought Bush had it by 5 to 10. But, no.

Florida election law mandates the recount. Bush still has the lead, but, everyone must admit, whoever wins this is going to have one humbling victory. The next Prez needs to be able to work both sides of the aisle, because this will be a divided government no matter who is in the White House.

On another note, I went through a crapload of trouble yesterday to vote, so if it comes down to the wire like this, my vote for Bush better decide this. =)

[PeteS99]

My take on this: we need more options. Obviously most everyone felt the need to fall into one of two parties. And neither one of those parties is a perfect fit for anyone's beliefs. I don't think there should be 50 parties to complement everyone's wants; but I think there ought to be at least a couple more (somehow everyone needs to get over this obligation to pick the 2 popular parties). Picture this: every baseball game next season is the world series. You only have two teams to watch all year. Because those are the Majors, people dont think to look at the minor leagues to promote them. I think we need more than one world series. Sports, and everything else, become much more enjoyable with the options.

[Byte 2.0]

I had to take off an hour at work to vote. since the polls opened at 9 a.m. and I normally start work at 9 a.m. an hour away.

Early voting wasn't an option for me either since that would have required taking even more time off from work, becuase I would have had to drive 40 miles in the wrong direction to my county seat.

[mairving]

Man this is democracy at it's finest.

Several things can be gathered from all of this. One is that this country is really divided. Looking at the map of the states, it looks like the civil war all over again. I really don't see either candidate bringing us together. The other thing that is interesting is the Senate. It is now by all accounts split 50/50. If Bush wins, Cheney is the tie breaker. If Gore wins, the GOP will have a 51/49 advantage. You never can tell how things are going to turn out. My in-laws are from New Mexico. They could not get out to vote because of snow. I think the state would have gone to Bush otherwise. So many things like that could have made Florida a non-factor.

[M. A. Dockter]

If we did have more than 2 political parties, then the 51% of the Electoral College needed to win as stated in the constitution would be hard to get when the whole nation is divided up into 3 and 4 parts. I think a little constitutional re-writing (amendments) is needed to take into account political parties.

Also, if we went by popular vote to elect the president, I feel that states would loose their rights in the election process. I favor the idea of a "one state, one vote" idea that the House uses when the election get's thrown into it.

[Xayd]

The idea of the electoral college was to avoid that stuff Doc. I for one don't want a system like what Parliamentary countries have ended up with, when the party that gets 15% versus the 10% of the vote that the other 30498508 parties get runs the whole country.

I am torn on this situation, though. Both arguments have merit. On the one hand Gore won an outright majority, but on the other hand Bush won about 30 states. Both have a just claim.

I guess my final opinion is "I dunno".

Xayd

[troysvihl]

>>Do they also have a state law that imposes a recount?<<

I believe the Florida recount mandate is a state law, and I've heard that most other states have a similar law. It's some pretty obscure election law that rarely gets used, so I don't know the details.


The ironic thing is that most people believed that if it came down to one party getting the popular vote and another winning the electorate college, it would have been gore winning the electorate college and bush getting the popular vote. Of course after all the absentee ballots from military personal abroad comes in, Bush may get the popular vote anyway. I really don't know how many of those ballots are out or have been counted already.

[Edited by troysvihl on 11-08-2000 at 02:02 PM]

[Byte 2.0]

I guess if Bush gets FL, then this would be the first time the most popular(by vote) would lose. That isn't right no matter which one wins and loses....I agree, and I believe there will be amendment.



<b><i>Please Answer this </i></b>
How is it decided how many Electoral votes each state gets?
I think it has to do with the population of the state, however I am not sure, if it is done by population how often is it updated to reflet changes in the population?

I used to joke when I went up north the the Civil War wasn't over yet. That both sided, join to fight WWI and WW2, and that the fight just never started back, yet.

(I know in my joke that the years are bad off for that to even be close, but it was all in fun.)

[Edited by byte on 11-08-2000 at 02:13 PM]

[M. A. Dockter]

Don't be so hard on yourself just because we whipped your arses byte :)

Electorial votes of a state = # of Senators (2) + # of US Congressmen

[drisley]

I don't really support getting rid of the electoral college. It is a matter of how a republic works. This is not a democracy. Democracy, in its pure form, is a scary form of government. Whoever wins the College, they're the Prez, as it should be.

I would support, though, a multi-stage election, giving 3rd parties a legit chance. A one state=one vote system is inheritently stupid, because a state full of moose like Alaska would get an equal vote as California. Bad idea.

Let's watch the count. history shows the recount very rarely changes the vote, so if that holds up, Bush is Prez. It won't be over for awhile, though, with all these predictable claims of fraud and this stupid claim by the Gore campaign that people mistakenly voted for Buchanan. Heheh..

[jad1097]

Byte You are correct it was a pathetic display here in Tennessee. I live in middle Tn. And there was nothing but Bush signs and stickers everywhere.

[M. A. Dockter]

David:
If you think one vote per state is stupid, why is it then that the law of the land states that when the election is thrown into the house, the reps from each state make up their minds on who to vote for, and vote as a whole for the state...yeilding a one state = one vote process...

Why do we even have a senate then?!?

[PeteS99]

dok,

isnt the senate there to tack really strange, unrelated and often immoral addendums to what would normally be good bills, thus causing them to get vetoed? :D
~pete

[M. A. Dockter]

Pete...yeah, that's the Senate I'm taking about :D

[troysvihl]

The senate is there in order to give each state a stonger vote in governmental affairs. That way not just the most populous states get the say in how things are run.

drisley - I agree somewhat on both of your statements regarding democracy and a multi-tiered election.

A democracy in and of itself is nothing more than mob-rule. It's funny how politicians and other people always scream that we need to be more democratic are often the same people that scream bloody murder when an unfavorable reforendum gets passed. Take Washington state for instance. Both parties up there love to lace their speaches with terms of "democracy," "will of the people," ect. But only one election ago, a referendum passed that made it so that any further tax increases must be done by referendum. Effectively, the people neutered the politician's power to levey taxes. Both parties fought that referendum as much as they could. Not a peep out of democracy from them during the fight. I doubt the people of Washington will be seeing any more tax increases any time soon. (I'm unsure if it was successfully challenged in court or if it has been gutted in another way, but the basic idea is pretty good and it won easily if I remember correctly)

So for all the people that are b*tching and moaning about democracy being circumvented and that the constitution needs to be changed in order to eliminate the electoral college, why don't we institute a real change and require that all tax changes be voted on by the general public? I doubt the Federal budget would be 2 trillion a year for very long. (Can you say "budget cuts"? I knew you could.)

As far as the electoral college is concerned, the conflict between it and the popular vote has only happened 3 times (not counting this years potential). So I don't think that there would be any great danger in either eliminating it or keeping it. However, to eliminate it the constitution would have to be changed and I just think that we should not mess around with the constitution for such a small difference.

As far as the multi-tiered election, I also was in favor of that until about a week ago when it dawned on me that it would effectively kill any hope of a 3rd party shifting the platform of a major party. I'd always believed 3rd parties play a larger roll than most people believe, b/c in order to recapture votes, it forces one of the major 2 parties to change their views. (take the populast party early in this century. the Repubs had to dramatically change for them.) But if minor parties, like the Greens or the Reform, are strained out early by a multi-election process, they would have very little sway if they couldn't impact the final tier of an election. The major parties would have a diminished incentive to change. If the greens had been eliminated in an early election this fall, the Dems wouldn't have to change their platform at all to try to pander to them. (I mean, where else would they go if it was only the Repubs and Dems in the final election)

[Edited by troysvihl on 11-08-2000 at 03:12 PM]

[PeteS99]

Really OT.. what kind of PC do you think resides in the Oval Office? Does the Pres get a new one when he pleases?

Dok - at least what I base my on for Senate :D

[Edited by PeteS99 on 11-08-2000 at 03:18 PM]

[JetBlack69]

Originally posted by byte


<b><i>Please Answer this </i></b>
How is it decided how many Electoral votes each state gets?
I think it has to do with the population of the state, however I am not sure, if it is done by population how often is it updated to reflet changes in the population?



Ok, my social studies teacher answered this to our class. In Minnesota, we have 10 Ele. Col. votes. We get one for each senetor (2) and for each rep. (8) The # of reps. is based on population. Ok, now we have 10 democrates and 10 republicans, if Bush wins the popular vote in MN, the 10 republicans vote in the E.C., if Gore wins, the 10 democrates vote. the number of E.C. votes we get is because the # of senetors is 2 for each state and there can only be 435 reps. The main reason for the E.C. is because most of the voters are uneducated, this is true because I don't even know my own reps and senators. Hope this helps. Sorry for the # of typos, I'm in a rush.

[Floppyman]

Well I'm actually surprised that it was so close in my homestate, IA. I figured they would go for Gore, and well according to the media Gore carried that state but only by small margin. Speaking of the media, I think it is a bad idea that they sit around all night and call the states to one canditate or the other, because I think it affects how people in the west will vote when they see the East's results since their polls close earlier. The dumb thing that happened last night was that the media was wrong, and gave Gore Florida earlier on, and later had to take it back. It looks Florida will be the deciding state. Thinking that I just heard this morning that they found another ballot box somewhere, this could take a while, but I've also heard that we might know by tomorrow night. If you want my opinion, I have a feeling Bush will stay on top in Florida as Republicans tend to do better on absentee ballots than Democrats. I'm 17 and can't vote yet, so this is just my 2 cents worth.

[Kubie]

Your 2 cents is worth alot Floppyman. At age 17, there are not alot of young people interested at all in our electoral process.

[drisley]

Troy -
On that multi-tiered system, there are two things I have to point out. First, i think you're assuming that people would not vote for a third party in a multi-stage election. I think in this type of system, the two tradiotnal parties would not inheritantly carry the election. I think it evens out the field and gives people an option besides the "lesser of two evils".
Second, the two parties are not very subject to change, quite frankly, because of the corporate influence, etc. Now, I am the last person in the world to preach class warfare, evil corporations, or the like, but "big money" does carry quite a bit of influence. I think this leads right into the whole campaign finance reform discussion, and thats a whole other deal....

Dok -
There are very valid reasons why the Electorol College was created, one of them being the reason I said before. The one state=one vote system would be inheritantly unbalanced.

[drisley]

Jesse Jackson goes to Florida?

That man needs to get his stupid, trouble-making ass out of the state! He's down here claiming this is a replay of the 1950's! I swear.
If the Dems go after this in court, they will do themselves in. If Jackson doesn't shut his cake-hole, somebody will have to keep my from hunting him down.

[Byte 2.0]

drisley, don't blow a gasket, you won't get to enjoy your president if you have a heart attack.

However, since I did vote, I will have the Right to complain if I don't like his administation.

Likewise, I expect you will be defending 90 percent of his view points.....

[padawan]

I think the "lost and found" ballot box will not count. Too bad if it was real votes, but there is no way an unguarded box of votes can be introduced into such a tight race without a lot of questions being raised.

The reason the Republicans do so well in Absentee votes is the strong military support the Republicans enjoy. Florida still has something like 2000 Absentee ballots to count from overseas...guess who those are from. You think we will vote for an administration that has gutted our forces and left us spread around the world with broken equipment?

Congrats President Bush!

[drisley]

Depends on if I agree. I think everyone knows I am for Bush and I think he is a better man, both fot the country and morally, but that doesn't mean I would support everything he does. We also must keep in mind that he's just the Prez and that he has a whole Congress to work with. Unless Bush reaches across the aisle like he says, not a heck of a lot will get done.

[Byte 2.0]

D

Can you give me one example as to why you think Bush will be better morally, then Gore?
(Leave clinton out of it)

P.S. I personally don't have a problem with Clinton having an Affair, if his wife didn't. That is between the people involed, it shouldn't be public business

Someone made the statement the other day that everything is the White house is public business, with the exception of their personal rooms.

Ok, if that is true about it being the public's business is the white house, what is our chances of getting Web Cam's in all the public rooms of the white house. Not going to happen. Too much top secret stuff in there that the public isn't allowed to know about...

<b>If you could ask Bush one Question about anything, and he had to tell you the Whole Truth, completely, What would you ask?</b> I might ask about Recovered Alien Crafts....

[drisley]

Yes, I can. I don't believe Mr. Gore has a sense of honor. In my code of honor, i believe honor includes:
(1) Not comprimising with your own reality.
(2) Your integrity to yourself is the most important thing.
(3) Keeping your own counsel.
I think Mr. Gore has no real ideals, as is proved by his 180-degree swap on many key issues, and things like "selling" his Gulf-War vote to whomever would give him the most airwave time. Some of his political tactics used in this campaign, such as race warfare, show he will do anything to win, and i don't think that is necessaily moral.

And, you act as if his connection to the most scandal-ridden President of all time is not an issue. You ask me not to mention it, but how could it NOT be a factor?

Lemme just throw in here, I only said all that to answer your question. This election is already decided, we're just figuring out who it was decided for. So, getting into a discussion of Gore or Bush personalities at this point is 20-20 hindsight and useless. Let's not bother.

[Edited by drisley on 11-08-2000 at 11:40 PM]

[Byte 2.0]

That is like comparing me and my room mate in college. His Girl Friend stay over with him most of the time, but when the college admin found out, they believed it was me. I was unware of that for a year, but it was a factor in my dorm housing my senior year.

The reason I didn't want Clinton brought up this time was because we all know that story, that horse has been beat to the point you can't even make dog food out of it....

[Floppyman]

Well from watchin CNN lately it seems that the count has suspended for tonight. The big issue in FL right now seems to be Palm Beach County where they had the confusing Ballot. They think some 2000 votes could have gone to Al Gore instead. They even think some people punched their ballot twice, thus it didn't even count. Well for one, the ballot was approved, and second, if you screw up, get a new ONE! Or ask for help if you don't understand the ballot. So I"m guessin we'll see tommorow, if the Gore campaign accepts the results I guess they'll prolly declare Bush the winner I'm thinking. If they pursue it furher, God forbid, this could drag one for a while. What Palm Beach County got to revote? Then everybody in the state might want to revote, and other close states are gonna wanna revote, because they don't want that one county to decide the election. Who knows where this might be heading. I say leave it, if they messed up, that's too bad. Wow, this has been just one crazy election.

[bob]

Only the ones that signed the book and printed their address in Palm Beach polls need to revote. And just for that part of the ballot.

[drisley]

No revotes! With the rest of the nation decided, it would be incredibly out of place to ask one country to revote. It would pretty much put the campaign back in force in one small county and it would be a negative impact on our process.

On the ballot, I think the people down there are grasping at straws. Only a glaring idiot could not figure that ballot out. And, how would these people walk out of their prescinct and all of a sudden realize what they did?! Come on. Besides, the law says that the citizen has the responsibility to ask for help before they vote if needed. Once they vote, its their tough luck.

On a side note, I hope the other pseudo-citizens in this country who don't go out and vote can now see how much each vote does count. Not only do they have no right to complain, but they cannot be taken seriously as a citizen.

[bob]

I was just making the issue clear. I am not for the revote but that is not up to me either.

BTY There are a lot of new issues that relate to the election and Just one thread does not seem enough.

I have just looked and not really posted. Anyone else feel the same or are wee all just waiting to see what will happen.

[stylin19]

Bob,

waiting.....but mostly disgusted with the whole lot of them. the only one who said anything presidential and classy about this whole Florida mess was Bill Clinton.

(u know how much I love him )

[keithr]

Has anyone seen the ballot that's being contested in Florida?

Two vertical rows of candidates, (one on either side of the page), with the names clearly marked within boxed margins.

Within each box is a big arrow pointing to the hole that should be punched to vote for your chosen candidate.

It was explained by the County comissioner, a Democrat, who designed (or at least approved) the design, that they were set up in this manner to be easily understood, especially by the senior citizens.

It certainly seemed clear enough to me, after seeing it on TV! (These people should try and decipher some computer documentation!).

My take is: if anyone could'nt understand that format, they probably don't have any business voting.

Keith

[bob]

"Republicans won't give an inch if Gore wins, and Bush couldn't unite Siamese twins"

[troysvihl]

So, the whole story comes out. Seems like there was an equal proportion of votes thrown out in the last election in Palm Beach county, so the 19,000 votes that were thrown out wasn't that suspect.

[glc]

I think that when all the absentee ballots are in and counted - a couple of weeks from now - that Bush will actually win the popular vote. Absentees are historically heavy Republican, especially military.

[troysvihl]

Does anyone else find it funny that Dalley (sp?; the Dem's campaign manager) is bitching about voting irregularities? I wonder if he ever talked to his father, Mayor Dalley of Chicago, about his rigging the election back in '60?

[troysvihl]

drisley -

Oh I agree with you that people would vote for a third party in a multi-tiered system. But in a multi-tier election, the last vote would not include the 3rd parties and those voters will have no choice but to come back to the two main parties anyway.

After this election, it's pretty clear that the Dems are going to have to pick a candidate that can recapture the Green vote. If we had a multi-tier election process, the Dems wouldn't really have to worry about that b/c in the last election, those Green voters are going to have to pick the Dems anyway. So whatever pressures that the current system puts on parties to change would be eliminated under a multi-tier election.

I am unsatisfied with the current system, b/c presidents can get elected with just a plurality of votes rather than a majority. A multi-tier election would solve this problem, but at the cost of eliminating voter pressures on party platforms. You mention money as a sorce of a problem, but I'm certainly not in favor of limiting spending (neither is the Supreme Court) or donations. So, I'm not sure what other solutions could be implemented to try to solve this.

[PeteS99]

Kind of amusing, though a bit disturbing!

<i>It is an exciting time to be a reporter in Florida. The rumors are running
so wildly that it's hard to determine what is true, because I'm having to
compete with the big media agencies. Yesterday I got held up by this guy
because he was stuck on the phone with Time magazine! Here's some "off the
record" reports I've received: In my county an edlerly couple, working at a
precinct, forgot a bag of about a thousand ballots in there car when they
went to drop them off at the elections office and found them Wednesday
afternoon. In another county they are hand counting all the ballots because
there are so many human errors on them. They found two locked ballot
machines in a black church in West Palm beach. In another county, the
ballots were confusing enough to lead the Democratic party into believing
that many elderly people mistakenly picked Pat B. instead of Al Gore. I
also heard that on the West Coast they found a couple hundred balots in a
trash can. It's truely wild here right now. I wish I had a good rummor
ranger! Don't trust everything you here on TV either, I've found that the
press is often very wrong. In the first vote count there was only about a
1,200 difference between Gore and Bush. Can you believe that a population
about the size of that on our voyage could determine the next president of
the United State?!

-Sylvan
</i>

[Jenni]

Just my thoughts on this whole situation:

1. Jesse Jackson-If he admits that blacks are doing better than ever and that there is no real racial prejudice in this country anymore, he's out of a job...
2. PLEASE, no revote!!! I've seen the ballot, and it seemed perfectly clear to me. How many ballots do you figure were disqualified nationwide? Should every one of those people get to revote?
3. The Dems are gonna drag this out as long as possible, all the while putting pressure on Bush to concede. They always have been a bunch of whining crybabies!
4. The locked ballot box found in the headstart had office supplies in it. The ones found in the garbage (if there were any) could easily have been the disqaulified ones.
5. It is my understanding that some of the news agencies called Florida's race before the polls in the panhandle's central time zone had closed. Is it not conceivable that a bunch of Republicans could have not voted, figuring their votes wouldn't make a difference? Should the panhandle regions get to revote?

I believe that after all of this is done (meaning weeks from now after the Dems quit dragging everything in to court) Bush will be the president.

[bob]

After the election is setteled will we be able to freely post in the general forum or will posts be limited to a single large multisubject thread like this one.

[SARGE]

Morons, all of 'em. All young kids can decipher the ballot in question. Folks in New York were shown the ballot and had no problem. Perhaps I should be given another chance on my last Lotto ticket. I meant to select the other #'s (the ones that won $47 million). Strange - Bush was ahead by 1700+. The recount has him down to 200+. Where were all these other Bore votes before? I say, recounts are in order in the states where Bore narrowly won. All's fair in love and politics.

Geez, our very own Banana Republic. The world is laughing.
Wonder if Jesse would be there if Bore had won and alleged irregularities were suspected? I think not.

[w1che]

They really want to let the Greens party vote over. They know they will vote for Gore next time because they can't get 5% of the vote to get matching funds. Hey, I want to vote over. I'm not sure I did mine right the first time. Give me a break!!!!!

[bob]

I will play by the rules and post here.

In reply to a peice of a closed thread.


LawyerRon partial quote:
“a non-lawyer's legal opinion, like a stopped clock, can only be correct by coincidence“.

Nice “ mine looks like this "

How about "a lawyer's legal opinion, like a running clock, can never stay correct it can only try to keep itself on time by resetting but never be exactly on time"
That is the difference between liberal and consertive. The consertives can claim they are right 2 times each day and the liberals can say they are always as close as possible.

[Marbell]

WTF? I swear everyone at PCMECH is a Republican! What is happening to the world. LOL, just kidding. About the comment of there being no racism in the world, try living in this skin for a little while and you'll change your mind. They may not be riding out in their little white hats and gowns, but they are out there. Anyway, as you'll notice both blacks and whites are complaining about irregularities so in actuality race has very little to do with this circumstance.

[Gintaras]

Nothing confusing on those ballot cards- arrows very clearly points to each candidate.

You have to be an idiot or plain stupid to don't understand ballot card. And ONLY Gore's side complains for this BS. Looks like that so many idiots wanted to vote for Gore and got "confused".

[bob]

Gintaras, thank you for your expert opinion.


It is time to talk about current issues and disputes.

There are many issues. We will see what happens.

[Karel]

Some of you have said that the world is laughing...I can assure you that I am not.

Whoever will be declared president (I find it impossible to say "whoever will win this election") will have a difficult time in office "at home", as well as in his international role.

Both victory and defeat will remain "disputed" for the next 4 years.

I understand the mechanics and philosophy behind the electoral college, and I see why it's important to protect the rights of the states. But the fact that someone wins the most popular votes and still loses the presidency will always leave a sour after taste. It will also affect the credibility of the "winner".
Many political observers in Europe seem mildly befuddled that America has clung so tenaciously to the electoral college -- an institution they suggest clashes with the image the country projects of itself as the world's most representative democracy. Douglas Herbert, CNN.com Europe writer

[LawyerRon]

bob,

Quote:
"How about "a lawyer's legal opinion, like a running clock, can never stay correct it can only try to keep itself on time by resetting but never be exactly on time"



It depends on how much I'm charging per hour.

[w1che]

Lets get one thing stright ..... Gore hasn't won the popular vote yet. There are millions of votes not counted yet in other states. Calf. alone has over one million. Now that doesn't mean he won't in the end but lets not jump the gun here.

[Jenni]

Marbell, I do agree that there are still racists in this country, black and white. But I don't think that you can make the argument that racism as an institution exists anymore. There will always be ignorant people that hate someone else just because they are different in some way.

[bob]

Originally posted by LawyerRon
bob,

Quote:
"How about "a lawyer's legal opinion, like a running clock, can never stay correct it can only try to keep itself on time by resetting but never be exactly on time"



It depends on how much I'm charging per hour.



So if I pay enough you can be exactly on time for either AM or PM?

[SARGE]

Bunch of 2nd graders were given the exact formatted ballot in question. They managed, everytime, to select their favorite Disney characters. Of course, morons (Dems) are disadvantaged. If they're too dumb to get it right, they haven't the sense and awareness to be voting anyway.

[bob]

SARGE Welcome to the sub fourm.

Did the Kids get a sample ballot to fill out first. Did they vote on the same physical ballot and were they rushed to finish quickly?

[Gintaras]

I second Sarge's comment.

I asked today @ work 70 y.o. guy I work with, about this ballot.
His answer:
"those idiots should NOT vote if they can't read right"

Also, came to work one truck driver to pick some freight. We talked about; he told us that asked his 6y.o. daughter, and she found very easy right holes for each candidate.

I heard Baker's speech about all this mess created by dems.
No respect for others, no respect for themselves.
Only total idiot won't understand that dems trying to "fix" elections.

[bob]

Biography: Location: NY, US

The only way to judge the ballot problem is to see the real ballot.

This thread is to big. Please post another and enjoy.

[Gintaras]

Originally posted by bob

The only way to judge the ballot problem is to see the real ballot.



Bob,
In every paper, 100 times on TV everyone seen it[haven't you?].

What NY, US to do with?

[bob]

Start new thread and I will explain it to you :)

[archie]

You guys go ahead and start as many threads as you want ... Political Auditorium is your new playground.