How to cope with 'depression' [Archive]

juppy

04-15-2003, 12:54 AM

I've had clinical depression/anxiety for a little over 7 years now and one of the best things I've been told by my doc to do is exercise. Something to do with exercise increasing the release of the "feel-good" chemicals in the brain. It helps to do this outside when the sun is bright too. I don't get the same effect just lifting weights inside. I usually go for long walks. Whatever is causing it, try not to dwell on it, that just reinforces the feelings of depression. It may sound stupid but you can also try thinking "positive" thoughts that counter whatever is causing you to feel down. Just suggesting "good" things to yourself sometimes helps that way. If you need someone to talk to, we're here for ya, or you can PM me if you don't feel like posting it here. hth :)

edit: Oh, one more thing. If you notice these feelings go on for several weeks without letting up much, you might consider going to a psych doctor for some help. Alot of the medicines work really well nowadays. And no, going to one of these docs DOES NOT mean you're crazy, you may just have a chemical imbalance in the brain. They can help correct that.

Nuclear Krusader

04-15-2003, 01:02 AM

I agree.

Don't take shelter in ostracism, MB. It will only depresses you more. Same with alcohol. When you get loaded depression "vanishes" but after a few hours it actually increases to a greater extent.

I suggest to follow Juppy's advice about excercising. I remember an ocassion when my ex and me had had a fight; next day when I woke up I felt horrible. Then went to swim for about an hour. I swam hitting the water with my arms furiously. When I got out of the pool I felt much better.

Try also to not play violent games while you are depressed. If you wanna play a game, play Need for Speed. The landscapes are kinda relieving.

Nuclear Krusader

04-15-2003, 01:07 AM

On a second note. I would try excercising first. If it doesn't help you can see a therapist.

But try to stay away from meds until there's no other option left.

As a doctor I can tell you that nowadays meds are the easier way but not the best one.

juppy

04-15-2003, 01:20 AM

Yeah, that's what I meant Nuke. If, after trying everything else, nothing seems to help, THEN go see a doc and think about meds. Thanks for clearing that up for him, Nuke.
*just realized something*
Nuke, you're a doctor? I thought you had a computer shop or something. :)

moonlight burner

04-15-2003, 01:46 AM

Thanks Guys, sorry to bring this up in this forum to bring the unnecessary anxiety around.
I'm feeling better, just a while ago, just tender my resignation letter , but a moment later went back to the boss room and took it back(He's not around).

I think I 'm taking a long walk after work. Just needed to hear some advise :D

Blakhart

04-15-2003, 02:26 AM

See how things turn out?

:D

TimPoet

04-15-2003, 02:27 AM

Moonlight, we're more than just a tech help place, we're a real extended family. You'll find affection and support here. I deal a lot with biologically based depression problems, Juppy and I have talked to each other a little about ours, but yours sounds like it is situational instead.
We're here to help, either publicly in the forum or privately thru PMs. I am open if you want to contact me. We're all here if you need more support.
Sounds like you made a good decision by taking the letter back.
Keep us up to date if you need to.
Tim

Juppy, yes our humble Nuke is a doctor, not an MD, but kinda close to one. He does more with computers these days. He can't stand the sight of blood. Hehehe. :D :p :) :D :p

calmius

04-15-2003, 05:11 AM

Ok, since I started college the academic pressure REALLY upset me and I was worried by problems with my family and friends.

I gradually became depressed, not because of ONE event. Eventually I discovered that I am constantly worrying and anxious about everything that I can' t function.

Simply sleeping a lot
listening to music I like
taking walks
talking with friends helps A LOT

ALSO I did take some anti-depressant pills
They're called PAXIL. THey make you feel weird first couple days but then weirdness goes away. They really DO make my mood better they increase Serotonin (happiness neurotransmitter) intake in the brain, thus making you happier.

I read that it has no side effects, so I wasn't afraidi to take it.

I think you should talk to your doctor and ask him to prescribe some for you, but I think only if your depression lasts for more than 2 weeks. This drug is given to people who have traumatic experiences and stress.

bailey

04-15-2003, 05:27 AM

yes, I know how you felt, the only thing that is keeping me going is pcmech, take this away from me and there will be no reason to go on

Strider

04-15-2003, 08:27 AM

I've been depressed and I know how it feels, I just fight through the drepression and I always have this on my back of my mind - "Tomorrow will be a better day".

avx

04-15-2003, 08:55 AM

I think we all been there;)

Things were really looking bad when it came to my senior year of highscool....wasnt gonna graduate on time...Never ever failed a grade in my life and I had to screw up right there at the end...that sucked. I was right there on the edge for a little while...Luckily I kept a cool head...

My best advice is roll with the punches, things can wrok themselves out. After 3 weeks of 13hr days at an adult education center, I worked up my credits and graduated on time:D...but the 13hr days were muder...ON SATURDAY TOO. Whats the old saying? Things are always darkest before you see the silver lining of the sun.:D

moonlight burner

04-15-2003, 10:47 AM

I had my long walk about 6 km along the road . After reaching home, I felt the 'depression' seems to subside, sort of like 'numbed out' and felt a lot calmer.
I really lost it, when I submitted the letter, but somehow or another, some 'force' made me go back to undo my to be wrong doings. Cause I 've the 'depression' for so long, that I knew it destroyed me, when it came. Didn't know why I managed to control it this time. God, guess I'm at the cross-road in my life where the decision to do or not to do is pretty unclear.

Thankyou all, didn't expect you guys would share with me your experience. Yes PCMECH is a place with Tech and most important of all, a 'Heart'.

Appreciated it :)

drisley

04-15-2003, 12:39 PM

Just thought I'd add my own two cents - for what its worth. I really cringe when people recommend anti-depressants for such things. Yes, it might help with the immediate situation, but like a Tylenol, it only dumbs down the actual cause; it doesn't alleviate it. And long-term use can cause really serious problems. I would highly recommend you stay away from psychotropic medications. If you want more information on this, feel free to email me or PM me.

Taking a walk is great. Take special care to really look around and notice your environment. But, another big thing is body nutrition. If there are serious imbalances in vitamins and minerals in the body, it can often manifest itself as exhaustion and depression.

Wish you the best.

juppy

04-15-2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by TimPoet
Juppy, yes our humble Nuke is a doctor, not an MD, but kinda close to one. He does more with computers these days. He can't stand the sight of blood. heheh :D I think that blood thing would be a problem, Tim!

"Hi, I'll be your brain surgeon today and....*clunk*"
"Uh, nurse, could you pick up the doctor? He passed out again when he saw the blood." :D

juppy

04-15-2003, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by drisley
I really cringe when people recommend anti-depressants for such things. Yes, it might help with the immediate situation, but like a Tylenol, it only dumbs down the actual cause; it doesn't alleviate it. Not trying to start an argument dris so don't get me wrong on this. Yes, meds should be the last resort after all other methods are tried. I simply stated that in my original post because some people don't think to use that option. They go directly from the "Well, exercise and venting didn't help" stage to the "Time to commit suicide" stage without even trying the meds. To me, medication, no matter the side effects, is a better alternative than being dead.
As for the comparison to Tylenol and how they "dumb down" the actual cause, I differ on that too. Most "happy pills", whether they are SSRI's (the most widely used) or others, build up a serum level in the bloodstream; that's why it takes a couple weeks before you notice the optimal effects. These effects will linger awhile after you start dwindling off the meds too. These meds are made to correct a chemical deficiency in the brain. If you don't produce enough of the "feel good" chemicals, then these drugs help "up" your levels. Tylenol, on the other hand, just kills pain and swelling for a few hours and then its gone. No serum level and no lingering effects afterwards.

calmius

04-15-2003, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by juppy
Not trying to start an argument dris so don't get me wrong on this. Yes, meds should be the last resort after all other methods are tried. I simply stated that in my original post because some people don't think to use that option. They go directly from the "Well, exercise and venting didn't help" stage to the "Time to commit suicide" stage without even trying the meds. To me, medication, no matter the side effects, is a better alternative than being dead.
As for the comparison to Tylenol and how they "dumb down" the actual cause, I differ on that too. Most "happy pills", whether they are SSRI's (the most widely used) or others, build up a serum level in the bloodstream; that's why it takes a couple weeks before you notice the optimal effects. These effects will linger awhile after you start dwindling off the meds too. These meds are made to correct a chemical deficiency in the brain. If you don't produce enough of the "feel good" chemicals, then these drugs help "up" your levels. Tylenol, on the other hand, just kills pain and swelling for a few hours and then its gone. No serum level and no lingering effects afterwards.

Yes, I agree, before I tried taking Paxil, I read about it on many sites and learnt that it is not addictive and has no long term effects according to FDA. Maybe I shouldn't have taken it since I don't think I was too depressed, but they really work and although they don't take the CAUSE of depression away they alleviate it in a safe way .

juppy

04-15-2003, 02:21 PM

calmius > Yeah, I read about the "few" side effects Paxil was supposed to have too. That's what my doc started me out on and it worked great for over a year, then all of the sudden it just up and quit working so I had to change. For it to have "few" side effects and be non-addictive, it sure wasn't real easy even switching to Zoloft (another SSRI). I read on some other sites that some people have more trouble getting off of it than others though and that some doctors actually change their patients over to Zoloft from Paxil when they try to quit the meds because Zoloft is easier to get off of than Paxil. Paxil is said to cause some people to gain weight too. I was already gaining when I started using it though so I don't think I can blame the pills! :D I'm using Effexor now and have been really impressed with it.

drisley

04-15-2003, 03:02 PM

If anyone has the time to catch Montel Williams show today, watch it. Its talking directly about the dangers of psychiatric meds.

brassman

04-15-2003, 04:05 PM

Well, here's my story.

Seven years ago I was diagnosed with Rheumatoid Arthritis. It affected my hands and wrists. That in itself would not be so bad except that I am a musician and repair brass instruments for a living. My doctors tried all the standard medications for RA to no avail. They could not get it under control. In the mean time the RA moved into my feet. More medications, no good. At times the fatigue and pain were almost unbearable. The range of motion in my wrists was down to 20% in the left and 15% in the right. It was about that time I was diagnosed with clinical depression/anxiety. (Not due to RA, but because of the RA) I had to quit gigging. I started going to "talk" therapy. Three years ago the RA moved into my hips. Newer medications, no go.
They just made me sick. The downward spiral continues. I was started on Paxil and it has made all the difference in the world on my outlook. Two years ago I was started on a combination of new medications for the RA and they seem to be helping. Un fortunately by this time my right hip was destroyed. I had a hip replacement in Nov. 2001. My femur cracked then broke. I have had seven surgerys since then to repair things, and I have to have one more in the next couple of months. I lost my job because of this, I am disabled and getting SSDI.

Now, I'm not telling you all of this because I'm looking for sympathy. I am telling you this because sometimes exercise and "talk" therapy just aren't enough. The new medications for depression do have a place for treatment.

Dris, I agree with you to the extent that the tricyclics, MAOI's and other older psychotropics can be very scary drugs,but the new SSRI's are not the drugs the old psychtropics were.

I know that Paxil has helped me immensely, and my rambling here is proof pudding. I truly don't know what would have become of me without medication.

brassman

Nuclear Krusader

04-15-2003, 06:42 PM

MB, glad to know you are taking it easy and taking the time to order your thoughts. That is the 3rd step. Way to go!

Feel free to e-mail me or PM me anytime. If you need someone to talk to, PM me and I'll give you my IM handle.

Regarding meds, yes the meds help the serotonin concentration to go up faster than with exercising, however they should be the last resort. With the exception of homeophatics, all meds are in some degree toxic. No, of course I am not saying you will get intoxicated and die because a little Ritalin (used for ADD) or Paxil. I am only telling you that they should be taken with discretion. Mainly for the points Mr. Drisley already pointed out. And, even when they don't create physical dependance they create psychological dependance in some cases.

@ Tim and Juppy: LMAO :D. But no, it's not because of blood why I am not practicioning as a doc. In college I was the first to jump onto the patients to do the surgeries. With my methodical ways and my dexterity I could be one of the best surgeons, I know dat. It's just that computers got the hold of me and fascinated me even more than medicine. But you should see me working, I apply the medical methods I learnt in college to repair PCs, and those methods sure have helped me a lot in this trade!

SARGE

04-15-2003, 08:15 PM

Works for me. Just click "presentation" and have your speakers on. :)

http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/

Nuclear Krusader

04-15-2003, 09:19 PM

That presentation is awesome. Tim sent me the link once and I liked it very much.

bailey

04-15-2003, 09:28 PM

I used to think that a 44 mag would fix anything, but started feeling better, now I am down to a 380

ylen13

04-15-2003, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by moonlight burner
Just wanted to know what you guys do in order to bring back your zest in life, cause I lost mine today....... :(

sign up your self or marshal art class. Attend it as much as u can. You will have something to look for and it will keep you busy so you will not have time to be depressed.

Force Flow

04-15-2003, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by SARGE
Works for me. Just click "presentation" and have your speakers on. :)

http://www.theinterviewwithgod.com/

Gee...

That gave a nice warm and fuzzy feeling ;)

drisley

04-15-2003, 11:30 PM

No, of course I am not saying you will get intoxicated and die because a little Ritalin (used for ADD) or Paxil. I am only telling you that they should be taken with discretion. Mainly for the points Mr. Drisley already pointed out.

I don't think anyone should ever take Ritalin. Its almost chemically identical to cocaine, has the same effects on the brain, creates the same dependencies. In fact, its become a new fad to use Ritalin when cocaine is in short supply.

Paxil is also something to steer clear of in general. You can have the same effect taking herbs. Seriously. And some of the side effects of Paxil are frightening.

Its very tempting to pop a pill and make the hurt go away. But, its not the right way to go about it. It can be done in other ways, without falling into the cycle of drug use promoted by the drug pushers in the white labcoats.

I'm glad you guys feel better, but I hope you're not still taking the stuff.

Blakhart

04-15-2003, 11:44 PM

I often wonder why people have to fool themselves with dope into thinking or feeling like they are happy..... wtf is that? Is it due their lives are really so miserable they have to fake everything?
You can apply this to pot and all the other recreational pharmaceuticals as well.....
Why not do something that makes you happy? How about seeing a friend? What about going to eat in a nice place that has great food? (one of my favs) What about a walk out in the sticks somewhere? What about treating yourself better?
Wanna see folks with real probs, totaly messed up folks who have thrown their lives away? Watch court tv. Just an example. You aint so bad after all.

SARGE

04-15-2003, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by drisley
Its very tempting to pop a pill and make the hurt go away. But, its not the right way to go about it. It can be done in other ways, without falling into the cycle of drug use promoted by the drug pushers in the white labcoats.

Unless a chemical inbalance exists, there is no reason to pop pills. Personally I've dealt with too many folks (some very close) who tried everything. Docs put 'em on pills when all else failed; but that breeds other problems. Most depression I've witnessed had its roots in low self-esteem, guilt or unresolved conflicts with others. Of course the 3 can fit hand-in-glove or exist singly. No pill will ever fix those things - only the person staring back at you in the mirror.

bailey

04-15-2003, 11:49 PM

I agree with you 100 percent sarge, plus the fact that life sucks

juppy

04-15-2003, 11:59 PM

drisley > Well, as a matter of fact, yeah, I am still taking the meds. Don't have much of a choice cuz they're the only thing that keeps me halfway functioning. Believe me, I tried every possible way to get rid of my depression/anxiety before going to the meds. We tried for about a year to find some other "physical" reason for it; went through numerous tests including blood work and CT scans....Nada, nothing. My doc suggested a psych doc so I went to him. Again, he tried the usual "talk therapy" bit (didn't work), exercise (sorta helped, but only for a short while after I'd done it - evenings at home just sitting around were hell), tapes that you listen to in order to relax and do the "happy thoughts" stuff (again, nothing), and just getting out and doing things to keep my mind occupied so I didn't think about depressing stuff or anything that made my anxiety level rise (this did nothing for me either - I wasn't conciously thinking about these things but I still had the symptoms). After all of that, THEN he put me on some mild type of pills that didn't do anything so we tried Paxil and it worked. For awhile anyway; after a year or so it stopped working so I was switched to Zoloft. It did the same stopping thing so now I'm on Effexor and it seems to do rather well. My situation may be different than others though because I have the anxiety problems mixed in with the depression. Any symptoms I have anymore are not depression-related, they have to do with the anxiety, but the same meds treat both problems so I've just stayed with it.

juppy

04-16-2003, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by Blakhart
I often wonder why people have to fool themselves with dope into thinking or feeling like they are happy..... wtf is that? Is it due their lives are really so miserable they have to fake everything?
It's not (at least in my case) a matter of having to dope myself up to make my life seem wonderful. It involves a chemical imbalance in the "happy" chemicals in the brain, such as serotonin, that make things seem acceptable. When the sending part of the nerve gives off serotonin, it is supposed to be absorbed into the receiving portion of the nerve. With this chemical imbalance problem, the sending part reabsorbs the serotonin itself before the receiving side has a chance to get it. So your brain sees this as not having any serotonin at all (cuz it didn't get any on the receiving part). SSRI's (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors) such as Paxil, block the serotonin from being reabsorbed into the sending nerve before the receiver can get it - hence, you are then getting the serotonin your brain needs.
As for being able to do without it in this scenario, you can't. It would be like telling someone with diabetes to do without their insulin, or a woman that has had a hysterectomy to do without her hormone replacement pills.

TimPoet

04-16-2003, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by drisley
Just thought I'd add my own two cents - for what its worth. I really cringe when people recommend anti-depressants for such things. Yes, it might help with the immediate situation, but like a Tylenol, it only dumbs down the actual cause; it doesn't alleviate it. And long-term use can cause really serious problems. Dave, taking anti-depressants lightly is a serious matter. One should only take them if they are prescribed by a competent doctor.
Some people only need them for a season. I, myself, have a brain disorder called bipolar which was formerly known as manic/depression. Unfortunately, we have to take anti-depressants and anti-manics for the rest of our lives (until they come up with a cure). I resisted this diagnosis for several years. And did I suffer, I would hit lows where I had no hunger for two weeks, couldn't sleep more than 3 hours during that time, was anxious, would shake and sweat all day long, couldn't get myself to shower, my speech was impeded and then it would disappear, but afterwards, sometimes, I would feel shattered for months. I wouldn't be able to read newspapers or watch TV cause the problems of the world would seem to engulf me.
I no longer live like this thanks to psychotropics. Vitamins, prayer, exercise, St. John's Wort could help me, nothing but strong doses of good medicine carefully monitored by me and my doctor would save me from the ups and downs of my mood swings. The dark shadow of my life has passed and I am free of the heavy thrashes of that torturor's lash. Since then I have been privileged to serve as president of the board for a bipolar support group for a few years and learned and taught a lot from and to others.
I hope you and others reading this can understand that some people honestly have a disorder of the brain, just like others have disorders of the heart, liver or kidneys and need good medical treatment.

brassman

04-16-2003, 03:06 AM

I think what bothers me the most about this thread is how lightly some of you are treating this serious disorder. True clinical depression is not something you just snap out of. I watched my best friend go through what TimPoet just described and it was downright scary. To think that someone would fake something like that is just absurd. We aren't popping pills to feel happy, we're taking medication under a Dr.'s care to feel normal. (Believe me, if I wanted to pop pills to feel happy I would find something a whole lot more fun than SSRIs.)

My own situation is a little different from TimPoet's. I am not bipolar,but like Tim, I also have a chronic disease that there is no cure for.(RA) Over the years I have watched my wrists and knuckles swell and become inflamed, my toes deform, and my hips deteriorate. Over the course of time I took a myriad of medications to slow the progression,but none of them helped. They made me physically ill and some of them have side effects that make Paxil look like a walk in the park. The fatigue and chronic pain finally take their toll. Recent research is starting to point to some of these RA meds depleting serotonin in the brain and causing depression. I guess that's great to know but it doesn't cure the depression. Like Juppy and TimPoet my medications are closely monitored. OK, OK, I'm rambling.

My point is, guys, clinical depression/anxiety is real not imagined!

bailey

04-16-2003, 04:21 AM

think I will give up

3 differant times today I started to post my feelings on this subject and the power would go off in the middel of typing, thus preventing me from posting here on this post, I can only deduct that I am not suppose to say anything about how I feel

TimPoet

04-16-2003, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by bailey
think I will give up

3 differant times today I started to post my feelings on this subject and the power would go off in the middel of typing, thus preventing me from posting here on this post, I can only deduct that I am not suppose to say anything about how I feel I will tell you how I feel about you, Bailey. I feel great compassion for you after reading about the level of your despair. I have always felt good about you in the Forum. And now, knowing of your suffering, I wish you lived in my hometown and I could visit you and we could talk and tinker with some computers and TVs. I think you are a good man and I wish you suffered none of this dread pain which is so invisible but so damned weighty. Sometimes when I have a breakthrough, it feels like a black coating of pain and extra gravity is on my soul. Would that all of us found escape from what Winston Churchill called, 'the black dog."
I love you, Bailey.

bailey

04-16-2003, 11:18 AM

thanks tim, that was very heart warming, almost wetted my eyes

I have seen a lot of good and a lot of evil in the 61 years I have been in this world, sometimes I feel like I don't belong here

Nuclear Krusader

04-16-2003, 12:24 PM

I've been only 26 years in this world and yet I've also seen lots of evil too. I've hit the bottom several times now and only God knows how I've managed to bounce back.

Now that I think of it, mayhaps I've bounced back because of the good people I have found on this place. So, even when I'm not in your place or know about your situation, Bailey, I can understand you pretty good. You see, the pain feels the same, even when the origins of it are different.

I look forward to meet in person several PC Mechers, and you are one of them, Bailey. In the meanwhile, I think you deserve a hug.

**Hugs**

drisley

04-16-2003, 12:34 PM

I have done so much reading on this subject, the history of these drugs, the history of the psychiatric field, that I would NEVER be caught dead in a psychiatrist's office. Its not a matter of taking any of this lightly. I have full compassion for those going through such ordeals. But, at the same time, I do not think it is clinical in nature at all. The "chemical imbalance" thing is way too subjective. Do any of these folks actually test you for it? No, likely not. They just say "chemical imbalance" and proceed to write a prescription. Remember, it wasn't long ago that this field thought lobotamies and electro-shock were solutions to disorders. Yeah, the same procedures used in Iraq for torture techniques.

Look, the LAST thing I want to do is upset anyone here or invalidate something you guys think is working great. So if anyone wishes to discuss it further, we can do so at FC.

bailey

04-16-2003, 01:47 PM

a big thank you to all, FC here we come

brassman

04-16-2003, 02:37 PM

Last night I mentioned what bothered me about this thread. Today I would like to tell you what I think is good about it, and I promise to keep it short.

We all have our own opinions on the subject and the very fact that we can discuss it with mutual respect and not have it turn into a flame fest tells me something. It tells me you guys are a GREAT bunch of people. It's no wonder this site is the best on the web.

Thanks Guys-

brassman

moonlight burner

04-16-2003, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by bailey
thanks tim, that was very heart warming, almost wetted my eyes

I have seen a lot of good and a lot of evil in the 61 years I have been in this world, sometimes I feel like I don't belong here

I can relate to that , at times I too feel I don't beong here . But the thought of my loving parents who are aging keeps me going on. And also the thought of , "There's still a lot of accomplishments and people who is waiting in not so far distant in my life for me ", keeps me lingering on.

Though things might not run according to what you wish, but I think all would agree , "The sight of sunshine, trees, birds singing all makes it worthwhile staying on till the end".