did I fry my hard drive ????

[Kristi]

Long story: I wanted to do maintenance on my computer, so I did disk cleanup, scan disk, and degfragment. By the way this is W98.

Then I wanted to clean out the registry. Here's where things started going wrong. I have used reboot's posted method of cleaning the registry 3 or 4 times with no problem on 2 different computers. I used the "manual" way. Recently, I saw that he had written an automated version using smartdrive. Shopvac is what it was.

During the registry build process of that procedure, something went wrong. I posted a thread in W98 forum and with the help of galaxian I restored the registry.

Now everything was back to normal. BUT, being a stubborn German with a touch of firey Irish, I still wanted to clean the registry. So I did the "manual" way of cleaning, which I never had a problem with before. And previously, the time involved from start to finish was never more than 20 minutes.

This time it went very slow. I knew this was a possibiliity. So after about 6 hours (it was working, just very slowly), I went to bed. Two and a half hours later, I got up to check on the progress. This is where things got REALLY serious. It wasn't even halfway done. Then I SMELLED SOMETHING HOT. I aborted the procedure by shutting off the computer.

After a couple of hours of cooling time, I restarted and restored the registry again. Everything appeared to be normal. I could still smell the "burning", but decided it was just getting rid of the smell that remained in the case.

I thought I should do a thorough scan disk before anything else. The scan was 2/3 or 3/4 done and I got an exception error.

Since then, there has not been a successful restart, and I THINK the burning smell was current and not residual.

So, after this long story, does anyone know if I fried my hard drive?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

Kristi

[kilgoretrout]

Does the computer POST? Can you see the hard drive in your BIOS? If you smelled a strong odor of something burning I would suspect the power supply. That's where all the juice is and it has components that can really stink when they blow. See if the fan is moving on the power supply.

[Kristi]

what do you mean by post? I'm not sure I can get to the BIOS, but I'll try. I'll also check out the fan. I'm not home right now, so it will be in an hour or so.

Thanks,
Kristi

[Force Flow]

POST - Power On Self Test; when your computer runs though checks before windows boots

When you start smelling something burning, sniff around. The most likely suspects are the CPU and PSU.

HDDs are really only fried when shocked by electricity (like I did once, unfortunately :rolleyes:), or extreme heat. As soon as you smell something burning, turn off the system and see how hot the drive is. If it's buning hot, then it's too hot.

Also check for leaking capasitors on the motherboard.

[edit]: btw, what are your system temps?

[HAL9000]

Well... just to re-assure you... you did nothing that would have fried the drive.. anything that may have happened is pure co-incidence. There were a series of Quantum hard drives with a bad chip on them that did have a habit of burning up.

[Kristi]

Hello,

I'm back at my computer !! I don't understand it, but it booted up just like it should. I had tried starting at least 3 times after the exception error and my computer didn't recognize hardware, wanted to reinstall the op system, and said the system was unstable.

The fan is running. There was still a burnt smell before I started up, but it hasn't gotten any stronger. Sounded sick though. I opened a few programs and that was ok. Checked out device manager and that was ok. I restarted just to be sure it would boot up again and that was ok. So I went ahead and connected to my isp.

Now -- do you think I should run scan disk? With that exception error, there must be a problem with the drive, right??? And it is a Quantum. Bigfoot Ts8.

So, if everything is going to be ok, I STILL want to clean the registry ! And I still want to use the method that reboot had posted -- the long way. What do you think?

Thanks for the help,
Kristi

[kilgoretrout]

As HAL9000 indicated, buggy software can do a lot of damage to a system, but it can't cause a fire. You have a hardware problem if your smelling smoke. Open the box and see if you can see where the damage originated. You don't list your hard ware other than the Quantuum hard drive, some of which apparently had a habit of bursting into flames so I guess that would be a good place to start checking. Check your cpu and see if the cooling fan on it is working. Check the power supply for evidence of smoke damage as a possible source of the burning fumes. If your inspection causes you to question the hard drive, buy a new hard drive and back up your data to it before the old one dies completely.

[mike breck]

I would forget all thoughts of cleaning the Registry until you find out what the problem is. As kilgoretrout has said, if you have any important data on that HD, now is the time to back it up to another HD or CD-R.

I think the two main suspects are the Power Supply (PSU) and the Hard Drive. Have a look at the back of the PC while it's running and make sure the PSU is turning. If it's not, that could explain the burning smell and Windows errors.

If the PSU fan is turning, then as kilgoretrout has said, you really need to open the case and examine the components carefully.

Switch off the PC, pull the power lead from the wall socket, ground yourself by wearing an anti-static wrist strap or by touching the case regularly.

Disconnect the Hard Drive (HD) and remove it from the case.
Have a look at it. Is there any visible signs of damage?

Also remove the PSU and have a good look thro the vents into the unit. Any signs of burning or scrorching?

[Kristi]

I was afraid I would have to open the case. I'm at my computer now, but when I posted last, I was online for about 1.5 hours total and the machine started GROANING. I shut down and started up just now, a good 8 hours later.

It's groaning semi-loudly ever since I turned it on, but it's working ok.

I'll open the case and check it out, and get back to you. My daughter has a HP that did the same thing, only much louder, and I suspected the cpu fan at the time.

Thanks for all the help, it is much appreciated !!

Kristi

[GaryRouth]

Good luck with your troubleshooting.

If you don't see anything obvious while you are looking around with the case open, try running the computer with the case cover off (or side-panel off) - that can help you hear exactly where the groaning noise is coming from. Probably the hard drive, but maybe not.

If you have a large magnifying glass and a strong flashlight, that can help with looking for leaking capacitors and such.

You can download the disk diagnostics for your Quantum from http://www.maxtor.com (which bought Quantum). I think the Quantum diagnostics are under something like "Legacy Quantum drive software". I can look tomorrow for the link (it's late here in L.A. at the moment) . . .

Again, good luck!
. . . Gary

[hmm . . . one other thought: while the case is open, take a peek to see if you can see the name of the power supply's manufacturer. . . . and hope that it's not "Deer" ]

[HAL9000]

Hmmm... a burnt smell, but running fine.. the only thing I can think of is you've blown a cap somewhere, but it hasn't affected the system so much that it doesn't run. This could account for the instability you had. Before the cap blew, you may have been getting an inconsistant supply of power causing data errors. Now that the part has failed, voltages have become steady,allowing the system to be stable, but voltages may be out of spec. It would be very wise to open the system up and go over each component thoroughly to try and pinpoint where this burnt smell is coming from before proceeding any further.

[reboot]

CPU fan or PSU fan are the other two things that would "groan".
Burnt smell might be the bearing in the fan. Works fine while cool, and then dies when hot.

The version of shopvac on the website doesn't work right. Something gets totally screwed up in the code when it's uploaded, and there seems to be no fix (in over 2 years).
Get the one that works, including the undo.bat that will reverse any damage done by shopvac.
http://members.cnx.net/reboot/shopvac.htm

[Kristi]

First, we are talking about an IBM Aptiva with an AMD K-6 2/400 processor. The power supply is an AcBel, 70W.

I opened the case and checked for signs of damage. Nothing was obvious,however the smell was coming from the cpu fan. The hard drive had no smell.

I turned the machine on. Both the psu and cpu fans were running fine. There was no noise or groaning. Also no additional smell. The hard drive makes noise, but has since day 1. It's quite noisy in fact, but not a groan. After 15 minutes, the groan started. It was definitely coming from the cpu fan. The loud groaning lasted only 5 minutes, then stopped.

I heard 3 separate sounds coming from the cpu fan, but all at the same time. One sound was the whirring of the fan (air movement) which sounded completely normal. The second sound was a put, put sound like a car not running on all cylingers. Probably a rotation sound with a spot hitting on something with each rotation. The third sound was probably the problem. It was a buzzing sound. It could have been from vibration. I think that's the sound that becomes a groan (I may be wrong). The fan can't be cooling well with all of the ummm ... dust in it. The vents under the fan blade are pretty well clogged.

The IBM fru p/n for the cpu is: 36L9124

I can replace only the fan, right? I didn't find a part number for it, but <a href= "http://www.impactcomputers.com/20l2187.htm">here</a> is a picture of what it looks like, and maybe this could be the right replacement fan.

I am SOOOO thankful that it's not my hard drive !!!

Do you think I could find a fan on eBay? Where is a good place to buy a part? I may as well check to see what fan my daughter's hp needs and order that at the same time.

Could there possibly be other damage also? Could the fan or overheating cause the exception error during the disk scan? Can I cause more damage by using the machine with the noise?

Last February, my computer was 4 years old. This is the very first time anything has caused me concern. I guess I'm pretty lucky !!

By the way, how would I know a leaking capacitor if I saw one? I didn't SEE anything unusual.

Thanks for all the help,
Kristi

[glc]

http://www.directron.com/fan-p-ss7.html

Add the 3 to 4 pin adapter, that will let you hook it up to a power supply lead, it looks like the motherboard header is proprietary on that IBM. Might not be a bad idea to add the $1 vial of heatsink compound too.

[GaryRouth]

[glc - nice price on that fan at Directron, hard to find those anywhere locally. Almost have to order online to get those fans]

Kristi - Glad that it "sounds" like it's not the hard drive :) . . . My cousins had some BigFoots in their Aptivas that went south at about the same age as yours (they were running K6-2 500s) - that's why I suspected the drive most.

Because of the age of the system, and all the heat-related system errors, and just to cover all the bases, I'd still recommend downloading & running the disk diagnostics. Just to make sure. I'd also recommend (like others have) backing up as much of what you really want to keep while you have this chance. I don't think the Quantums have a history of long life - in general. Here's the link for the Powermax disk diagnostic program http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/downloads/powermax.htm
It looks like this version works for all Maxtor as well a legacy Quantum drives (no more hunting around for the older drive test software). That download webpage has all the instructions - you'll want to read them carefully, to make sure you only test the drive [and not go wild with a low-level format = which completely erases all data - without full backups!]

It's too bad that the hard drive and the cpu fan are so noisy in that system, because the little old 70w power supply shouldn't make any noise at all. Sometimes an older power supply like that I replace the exhaust fan - just for the sake of peace and quiet.

When you're ready to put the new cpu fan on, see if you can blow out the dust from the heatsink before you attach the new fan. And a little dab of thermal compound on the cpu just under the heatsink, like glc recommended, should help lower the temperatures a little too. Those K6-2s were some of the first processors that we started to really have to pay attention to cooling with. (My kids and I are still running some K6-2s and K6-IIIs here at home)

Best of luck
. . . Gary

[glc]

That thing at Directron is a complete heatsink/fan assembly, no dust to blow out, just clean any old heatsink compound off the top of the CPU with some alcohol.

Gary - need to order several to make it worth the shipping cost, shipping on one is more than the price of the unit.

You may be able to find a Socket 7 heatsink/fan locally for less than the shipped price of that one. I know I pay $5 each for Thermaltakes from a local distributor so you should be able to find something for $10 or less.

[reboot]

Kristi, may as well wait for the new fan before trying the undo.
If the system is going to crash anyhow, from heat, there's no point in heating it up any more.

[Kristi]

OK, I'm going to try the fan replacement. I've never done it before, but I have a general idea. When I get the fan and am ready to install it, I'll post a new thread for help !!

Thank for all,
Kristi

[Kristi]

The new fan is in. I can't believe my small town actually had a heatsink and fan. It is connected directly to the power supply.

Now -- what is your recommendation? I want to start over with cleaning files (actually I have rearranged alot of files already), scan disk, defrag, and registry cleaning.

Should I do further testing first? Like download the disk checking program from Maxtor that was recommended?

And reboot, since I restored the registry (a few times) should I still run the undo program for the registry?

I hope the problems are over !!

Thanks for helping,
Kristi

[reboot]

If you have a good working registry, leave it alone.
Win98 makes a copy of it, once per day, on the first boot up anyhow.
If you want to restore the registry to exactly the way it was, just before you ran shopvac, then you can run the undo.
Beware it may also undo any new changes you have made since then.
I would check the disk, just to make sure.
Next I would make backups.
Boot to DOS, and at the prompt, type: scanreg /fix
This will sort any loose pointers in the registry.
Next, at the prompt, type: scanreg /opt
This will remove all extraneous LF/CR and empty spaces.

[doubledragon5]

Before you get started go to your local Wal-mart in the electronics department, and pick up a can of compressed air. It is a good Idea every once in a while to open up the case and blow out all the dust that builds up in there. Over time a lot of dust can cause the temps in side your case to rise and over time may be one of the reasons your fan fried.

I clean out all my PC ever 3 months or so just to keep them from getting over heated. I also have my vaccum cleaner going at the same time. What I do is when I start blowing out the dust the vaccum is used to suck the dust in to the vaccum, rather than blowing all over the place. I have also use the vaccum very carefully and sucked out the dust when I did'n have any air. Hope this also helps.