Reinstalling win 98 again.... I need help

[yak]

I'm trying to reinstall win 98 on my old computer, again.
I did it once long time ago and I don't remember how I did it.

Here is the problem.
When I turn the PC on, the machine has to go through safe mode and now it refused to go to window screen.

When I put the master disk in, it said,

one moment please...

and doesn't do anything. I reformated win 98 with paid call line, spending $120 for a simple procedure last time. I just can't remember how I did it.
Packard Bell help is totally useless. No tech help unless you have to pay. That's what I did last time. I had the same issue and tech guy told me to press few bottons and I was able to reformat. I refuse to spend another $100.

Do I put 3.5 master disk and recovery CD rom at the same time?

I can't even go into PC to retrieve the info so can't give you a specific info.

Packard Bell multimedia 730
M II 266 MMX
4.3 GB hard drive
40 MB syncDRAM

Thank you for your help.

[Cricket]

If it came with a floppy and CD, you have to boot to the floppy first and then follow the instructions on screen. I think it'll tell you when to put the CD in the CD-ROM drive.

:) Cricket

[yak]

Thanks for your reply.
However, when I put Master restore disk, it doesn't do anything other than saying, "wait please."

No matter what I do, it does nothing. I see the yellow light on, but I can remove the disk and doesn't change anything. I've waited at least 30 min just to see if anything else happens. Nothing.

When I tried to run window, this errors are what I get;

cannot find a device file
z:vvinesd.386
or
cannot start windows because VMM32.VXD not found or damaged.

The last time the machine was doing okay, I was messing with networking/LAN stuff. I also installed Zip external hard drive.
TIA.

[not important]

Are you booting from the Master restore disk? The last machine I had with a restore disk required that the machine be booted from that disk. If I put the disk in while the machine was running i would get the "Please Wait" thing.

[yak]

I put the diskette in before turning the machine on.

I wish I could remember how I did it the last time. I think I might of typed something but I just can not remember what I did. Packard Bell doesn't even have tech e-mail. I went to their website and it redirects to some UK site.

[RE2]

Get into bios settings and select boot from floppy or a:\ drive first, cd-rom second, hdd 0 third.

[colossalnerd]

If it comes down to it and you have the use of another computer you could always just take the hard drive out of the computer that you are trying to fix, install it into the ide socket that your cd-rom drive is plugged into.. From there boot up your computer, goto my computer, right click on the newly installed drive and format it that way. Next re-install it into your other computer as it was.. Then you should be able to do a new installation of windows no problems asked.

[yak]

I'm lost. I'm definitely not a tech guy and only thing I know is to goto BIOS screen. Don't even know DOS so I have no idea how to type A:\ to start.

You can forget about switching hd to another computer. I don't wish to risk a working computer with my total lack of knowledge.

But how do I go about BIOS setup? Thanks for your help.

ps
I've tried to read to find out more but I'm lika a 10 year old kid and asked to drive 16 wheel truck. No idea what to do.

[Cricket]

Are you sure the floppy drive works properly. Maybe it needs to be cleaned.

:) Cricket

[yak]

I'm pretty much sure it works.
I'm fairly sure the last time I went to safe mode then typed something to bring up CD menu.


colossalnerd,

If you put the bad hd to working pc by putting in ide socket from CD drive, how can you format from that point?

[Cricket]

Originally posted by yak
If you put the bad hd to working pc by putting in ide socket from CD drive, how can you format from that point? If you do choose to do this method, here's what you do. With the hard drive transferred to the other PC (make sure the hard drive jumper is set properly), start the computer up and go into BIOS to be sure the drive is recognized by the system. If it isn't, you need to run AUTO DETECT. If the hard drive is found and recognized, Save and Exit the BIOS and the system will reboot. If the system doesn't find the hard drive it may be jumpered wrong. Make the necessary change and then start the system up. When it reaches the Windows desktop, open Windows Explorer, find the drive letter that represents the Packard Bell hard drive and right click on it. In the Menu that comes up, click on Format. Make absolutely sure that you choose the correct drive before you format or you could format the wrong hard drive.

:) Cricket

[Karnevil9]

To get into the bios you usually hit the delete key during the start-up screen process. It could be a different key on some systems. Shut down your computer and then restart. When the boot (start-up) screen comes up, it should give you a prompt saying "Hit Delete key (or whatever key) to enter set-up." That takes you to the Bios. In the Bios you should find a section that gives you a boot up order. HDD or hard drive, A:/ or floppy or removable device (as on my Dell) and CD-Rom. It will also tell you how to change values, either by using up and down keys or by hitting -/+ keys. Set for your floppy or A drive first, CD second and Hardrive third. Then you can save changes (usually by pressing F-10 key) and exit. Use the floppy to start the boot up and it should tell you when to put CD in drive or ask you if you want to boot from CD. Then you can put the CD in.

I just installed 98 on my PCII Dell this weekend after removing 2000 from it. I set up the boot sequence this way and had both the Floppy and CD in when I restarted the computer and it worked without a hitch. If it installs this way, don't forget to go back into bios later and change the boot order back to HDD first. I don't think it matters what you have as second and third boot device from that point, but I usually set the CD as second and floppy as third.

[yak]

Thank you everyone for your input.

I've changed BIOS setting; unfortunately, it didn't work.
The recovery floppy disk is not prompting to go to the next step. Blue screen with "Please Wait..." appears then nothing happens. Green light from floppy drive is on but you can remove the disk without changing anything.

My problem might sound vague because the problem occurred about 1 yr ago. Gave up but now trying again. Just can't remember how I fixed the last time (as I kept saying again and again). Same problem with blue screen with Please wait happened before and I somehow fixed it. With some help from a tech guy, costing me $100.
Again, thank you.

[yak]

I've tried to open up Packard Bell, it's impossibly to open it without destroying plastic casing. Who designed this? There's absolutely no way I can remove HD without damaging either the casing or some other components.

Basically, removing HD is out of the quesstion.

I need to somehow fixed it without disassembling the PC.
Does anyone know Packard Bell has e-mail address or website for US costumers? www.paarkardbell.com only has Asia/Europe option. Unbelievable.

[bailey]

right
they went out of busness here

too many people found out about there pc's

there has to be a easy way to open the case
some of them here had a screw in the bacl at the top cover that had to be removed

then a row of screws on one side on the bottom
after the top is removed
then one side can be removed

so look for any screws that you can get out

[yak]

Unbelievable.

Yeah, I unscrewed everything and was able to open up one side but there's no way I could remove other parts. I've already snapped couple of plastic hinges no way closer to remove anything from inside.

No wonder that freaking company went out of business. I try not to get angry at this but it's not easy. I'm afraid I might have to resort to using their help(?!) line...

[OoklaTheMok]

I would say that 1st thing to try would be a new Win98 boot disk. Can be made on any computer with win98 by going to add/remove programs in the control panel and clicking on "startup disk" tab at top. Or may be able to find one at http://www.bootdisk.com.
Once ya have that, boot the computer w/boot disk in the drive & choose the option "start with cd rom support" This will take ya to a dos window. Type in D:\setup and hit enter. Hopefully you should be good to go. If not, ya may have to use fdisk and format - heres a good site on how to do so... http://hardwarehell.com/fdisk.htm. Good luck

[yak]

Tried with with new win98 boot disk. Didn't work. Kept asking to remove the disk.

http://hardwarehell.com/fdisk.htm site is dead and couldn't get any info regarding fdisk.

Thank you anyway. This is getting depressing. Two things I've learn so far; don't buy PC from Packard Bell and visit this site more to learn.

[Karnevil9]

Are you sure this computer is worth the frustration, or is it the challange. Perhaps it is time to open a window and see if it can fly:)

[yak]

Now it became the challenge.

[Xaqut]

Have you tried...scanreg/restore from the comand line?

[yak]

Originally posted by Xaqut
Have you tried...scanreg/restore from the comand line?


I'm sorry. I do not understand. Could you explain a bit further if possible? Thank you.

[Xaqut]

Well when you start your machine hold down the f8 key or ctap on it what ever......that should give u the option of getting safe mode...comand prompt...loading selective drivers etc...select comand prompt...Type @ the C: scanreg/restore This will scan the registry for errors then promt you to restore the registry from a previous version that was good... hope it works for ya....Was also reading the other sugestions & you should be able to reload windows from a boot disk pretty easily if the registry fix doesnt work.I have done this many times..more times than I would like to have...Can also like was suggested by others boot win 98 from the cd...you just have to make it the fisrt boot device in the bios....

[yak]

C: scanreg/restore

Tried this way but more I restore more slots with
Not Started..... rb000.cab
not started......rb004.cab and so on

and continued to get cannot find a device file z:vvinesd.386

Xaqut, you said you 've done reformatting with boot disk many times. Is there some kind of trick tha you can 'encourage' a boot diskette to prompt the next step?
Whenver, I put the master restore disk, all it does is aske me to 'please wait...'

[mike breck]

Tell me, is the Recovery Bootdisk Write Protected?

Check the little tab on the floppy. If the hole is showing then it is Write Protected. If so, move the tab so the hole is closed.

Make sure the Boot sequence in the BIOS is set to Floppy Drive first. Also make sure your floppy drive is detected properly in the BIOS. It should be listed as a 3.5" 1.44 MB floppy drive.

Then reboot with the Recovery Bootdisk and your PB Master CD in the CD-Rom drive.

Anything?

If it doesn't work, can you try a standard Win98 Startup Disk. If that doesn't boot the system to the A: prompt then it may be that the floppy cable is loose or damaged or the floppy drive is faulty.

While in Safe mode, can you try accessing a floppy disk to see if you can view the data in Windows Explorer.

[yak]

Boot disk was not protected.
BIOS setting was correct.
Boot sequence was set up as; a, cd-rom, c
nothing happened.

a: dir in DOS to check the floppy disk directory and it worked.
so I don't think the floppy drive is faulty.

Can't even go into safe mode to reach window desktop screen. I could see the logo ms windows 98 but it would stop and display;

cannot find a device file z:vvinesd.386


I feel that the solution is right near but don't know how to reach it. Is there some way I could manually type in a drive to boot up the disk? Thank you for your help.

[yak]

More bad news.
When I tried to change the drive from C:\>
all the letters corresponded as Invalid drive specification.

I could only change to a and b.
D through Z did not respond as valid drive. Now I can't even find CD drive.

[bailey]

I have run into that same symptions as you are getting now, had to replace the motherboard

[yak]

I'm not replacing mobo for this piece of junk. Oh no.
I might just do what Karnevil9 suggested earlier and see if this thing could fly.

[bailey]

they do

after you remove the hard drive , floppy drive , and the cdrom.
these could be used on a new build

oh and the sound card, and if it has one the vid card too

[Karnevil9]

At least if you strip it down to get parts out before dumping it, you'll have the pleasure of not being too "gentle" getting the case opened.

[yak]

Going back to my problem.
Does anyone have any other idea I might try out?
Thank you.

[mike breck]

OK... the plot thickens.

Vvinesd.386 refers to the Banyan VINES network client.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http://support.microsoft.com:80/support/kb/articles/Q194/8/45.ASP&NoWebContent=1

So that would correspond to you messing around with Networking prior to the problem starting.

The chances are that the Vvinesd.386 line is running in system.ini and the Registry. Let's see if we can stop it running in system.ini first and that might allow you to boot into Safe Mode or Windows proper to allow you to carry out the rest of the troubleshooting referred to in the MS article above.

Sorry - I'm going to have to take you on a journey into the nightmare regions of your mind MS-DOS.

Reboot the PC and hold down the Ctrl key when it is booting.

All being well, that should take you to the Boot menu.

Choose Command Prompt Only.

That should take you to the C: prompt.

At the C: prompt type:

edit c:\windows\system.ini

You will enter the DOS editor.

Use your arrow keys to scroll down until you find the line that refers to vvinesd.386 and put a semicolon at the start of that line i.e. ;vvinesd.386

Hit the Alt key to access the "File" dropdown menu at the top of the screen and use the arrow keys to scroll down to Save.

Highlight "Save" and press the Enter key.

Highlight "Exit" and press the Enter key.

That should take you back to the C: prompt.

Press Ctrl+Alt+Del to reboot the PC.

See if it will boot into Windows.

If it doesn't, then Ctrl+Alt+Del to make it reboot and this time hold down the Shift key while the PC is booting.

That should take you into Safe mode.

See how far you get.

[yak]

Thank you for the last info.
Went into DOS edit mode but could not find anything with

vvinesd.386

I tried under Find option, but the search came up empty. As a matter of fact, anything you type came up empty.

device=syswiz.386 was the closest thing I could find.
Should I try with this line?

[yak]

This was what came up as c:\windows\SYSTEM.INI

[boot]
oemfonts.fon=vgaoem.fon
sysstem.drv=systm.drv
drivers=mmsystem.dll power.drv
shell=explorer.exe
user.exe=user.exe
gdi.exe=gdi.exe
sound.drv=mmsound.drv
dibeng.drv=dibeng.dll
comm.drv=comm.drv
mouse.drv=mouse.drv
keyboard.drv=keyboard.drv
*DisplayFallback=0
fonts.fon=vgasys.fon
fixedfon.fon=vgafull.3gr
display.drv=pnpdrvr.drv

[keyboard]
keyboard.dll=
oemansi.bin=
subtype=
type=4

[boot.description]
system.drv=Standard PC
keyboard.typ=Standard 101/012-key or Microsofr Natural Keyboard
mouse.drv=Standard mouse
aspect=100,96,96
display.drv=S3 Inc. Trio64v2

[386Enh]
ebios=*ebios
woafont=dosapp.fon
mouse=*vmouse, msmouse.vxd
device=syswiz.386
device=*vcd
device=*vpd
device=*int13
device=*enable
device=*vkd
display=*vdd,*vflatd
device=pbewdsm.vxd

[NonWindowApp]
TTInitialSizes=4 5 6 ....

[power.drv]

[drivers]
wavemapper=*.drv
MSACM.imaadpcm=*.acm
MSACM.msadpcm=*.acm
wave=mmsystem.dll
midi=mmsystem.dll

[iccvid.drv]

[mciseq.drv]

[mci]
cdaudio=mcicda.drv
sequencer=mciseq.drv
waveaudio=mciwave.drv
avivideo=mciavi.drv
videodisc=mcipionr.drv
vcr=mcivisca.drv
MPEGVideo=mciqtz.drv

[vcache]

[drivers32]
MSACM.imaadpcm=imaadp32.dcm
MSACM.msadpcm-msadp32.acm
MSACM.msgsm610=msgsm32.acm
msacm.msg711=msa711.acm
MSACM.trspch=tssoft32.acm
vidc.CVID=iccvid.dll
VIDC.IV31=ir32_32.dll
VIDC.IV32=ir32_32.dll
vidc.MSVC=msvidc32.dll
VIDC.MRLE=msrles32.dll
msacm.lhacm=lhacm.acm
msacm.msg723=mssa723.acm
vidc.M263=msh263.drv
vidc.M261=msh261.drv
msacm.13acm=13codeca.acm
VIDC.VDOM=vdowave.drv
VIDC.MPG4=msscmc32.dll
vidc.vivo=ivvideo.dll
msacm/vivog723=vivog723.acm
msacm.voxacm119=vdk32119.acm
VIDC.TR20=tr2032.dll
VIDC.UCOD=clrviddd.dll
VIDC.IV50=ir50_32.dll
msacm.iac2=C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\IAC25_32.AX

[mike breck]

No, don't touch it.

Try a Step by Step Boot up.

When the PC is starting hold down the Ctrl key and that will bring you again to the Boot Menu.

Choose Step by Step.

Say "yes" to every line except the line that asks whether you want to load "all windows drivers".

Does it boot sucessfully to Safe mode, hang, or does it give you errors?

Reboot, try the Step by Step again, but this time say "yes" to everthing apart from "autoexec.bat" and "config.sys" .

Do you get to Safe Mode, hang, or get errors?

[yak]

Saying No to load all window drivers;

Made it to Safe mode desktop screen; however, an error box pops up, saying

Explorer----this program has performed an illegal op and will shut down



Tried with No to Autobat and Config sys;

the last two options i've said yes to are,
syswiz.386
pbewdsm.vxd

Never made to Safe mode

An exception 0E has occurred at 0028:C000AC8B in VxD---. This was called from 0028:C000BACC in VxD---. It may be possible to continue normally.


I don't see the error messege with Vvinesd.386 anymore. Closer than before since I could technically get to Safe mode just that PC shuts down as soon as it comes to Safe mode. But I think it's getting closer....

[mike breck]

Try the step by step again, say no to AutoExec.bat and config.sys - also say no to syswiz.386 and pbewdsm.vxd

Can you now get into Safe Mode?

If not, try renaming win.ini and system.ini

At the C: prompt type "CD WINDOWS" (don't type the quotes) to take you to the Windows directory.

Then type "rem win.ini win.xxx" (without the quotes)

Reboot the PC.

If it doesn't boot normally, then try renaming the system.ini


Again type "CD WINDOWS" to take you to the Windows directory.

Then type "rem system.ini system.xxx"

Then type "copy system.cb system.ini"

Reboot the PC.

Can you now get into Safe mode or Windows proper?

[yak]

In CD windows,

changed to win.xxx and system.xxx

With this change, it made it to Safe mode screen but again, it said;

Explorer----this program has performed an illegal op and will shut down

on Details, it said,

EXPLORER caused an invalid page fault in module EXPLORER.EXE at 015f:00401f31


or sometimes,

an exception 0E has occurred at 0028:C00039C9 in VxD VMM(01) +00029C9. This was called from 0028:C00057B71 in VxD SHELL(01) +00000549. It may be possible to continue normally.

[andyms18a]

yak i think your best option is to format the hard drive and reload windows from scratch

[yak]

How can I format the HD without removing it to another PC?

[bailey]

boot with a boot floppy

[mike breck]

Well Yak tried the Boot floppy before and it didn't work. But lets try it again.

Download a good Win98 bootdisk from www.bootdisk.com
Extract it to floppy disk and boot up with it in the floppy drive.

When you get to the A: prompt type "FDISK".

Then try deleting all the partitions on the HD, creating a new one(s), and formatting the HD.

Just follow the instuctions here:

http://www.muisejt.com/fdisk/fdisk.html

See how far you can get.

Before you do that, make sure the BIOS actually detects the floppy properly i.e. 1.44M 3.5 in

[Xaqut]

one other thing you might want to do is to check the integrity of this hard drive,this drive could be defective...What brand drive do you have?

[yak]

Went into FDISK format,

First, Create DOS partition or Logical DOS drive

then,

Create Primary DOS Partition

It said "Primary DOS Partition already exists,"
and did not give any option.

Current fixed disk drive: 1

Partition C:1
Status A
Type PRI DOS
Volume Label
Mbytes 4103
System FAT32
Usage 100%


When I tried to create Extended DOS Partition,

it said, "No space to create a DOS partition."


Tried with Create Logical DOS drive(s) in the Extended DOS partition,

it said, "cannot create logical DOS Drive without an Extended DOS Partition on the current drive."

On Set active partition,

The only startable partition on Drive 1 is already active.

Did I miss something here or I didn't get it right?

[Xaqut]

Just format it..if there isnt anything valuable on it
think ya just have to type format C:

[andyms18a]

from fdisk you first delete the primary dos partition
then you create a primary dos partition and it will ask if you want to use all space and make it active answer yes it will then ask for a Volume Label just hit the enter key then when it says reboot the computer when it reboots and gets to the A: type format C: AND HIT ENTER answer Y to any questions it asks once thats done put your windows CD in the drive and type E: and hit the enter key then type setup and hit the enter key and follow the on screen instructions

[yak]

How can I delet primary dos partition?

Just type,

A:>\ format C

then hit enter?

[GaryRouth]

yak - Start your computer with a boot floppy, and from the A: prompt, type the command fdisk. One of the options will be "Delete Primary DOS Partition". Choose that option. It will warn you that this will destroy all data on the drive, and do you wish to continue? Answer "Y" (Yes).

Then go to option 4, to see the list of partitions on the drive. If there had only been one, it will read "No partitions defined". If you see others, delete them as you did the Primary DOS partition. (If you see a Non-Dos partition, you may want to leave that one alone. It might contain bios information - although this is more common with Compaqs than with old Packard Bells. The hidden partition on an old Packard Bell is usually for their Recovery Disk set - which, if you no longer have the Recovery disks, and you're fairly sure that no bios info is on there, you could delete to gain more room on the drive = but you'd only do this if you were sure of the hidden partitions function on your model)

Your last step will then be to "Create a Primary DOS Partition" and mark it active. You can then set your system to boot from the CD-Rom drive (in the Bios Setup screens), put your Win98 installation disk in, boot with it, and let Setup format the drive for you. Answer "Y" (Yes) to the prompt: "Enable Large Disk Support?" (this will let Windows format the disk with FAT32, Win98's native file format).

I think andy can steer you to the finish line from here. I figured I'd jump in tonight, since I was up late anyway [making the kid's luches for school tomorrow:) ]

. . . and: Hi there, andy :)
. . . Gary

[p.s. ...if, after your latest fresh install, you get Invalid Page Errors, test your system's memory with something like DocMemory http://www.simmtester.com ]

[andyms18a]

hi yak
hi gary

yak i have reread this thread and i am beginning to think you have a hardware problem its either memory or the hard drive do you have a small computer shop near you as they will have the ability to test the computer hardware ? some only charge a fixed fee to diagnose the problem

[mike breck]

Yes,

There is only so much you can actually do without opening the case. If you can get the case open and identify the HD, then you can download the diagnostic software from the HD manufacturer's Website, extract it to a floppy disk, and then test the HD yourself.

You can also check out the rest of the hardware. I'm sure it's going to be pretty dusty in there and need a good clean with a can of compressed air.

So you need to decide whether you are going to attempt the troubleshooting yourself or pay someone else to do it.

If you decide to do it yourself (it's the only way to learn), you will get plenty of support from the guys here to keep you right.

[yak]

I'm gonna do it myself, with help from you guys. Thanks everyone for your advice and assistance. I haven't mangle the PC yet.

It's fairly old PC so I don't think I'm going to pay someone to look into it. I'll get back to you guys with the progress.
Once again, thanks.

[edfair]

As we left the story, you couldn't create a partition. Reboot and fdisk again.#4 view partitions. if just 1, delete it first, then create it. If more than 1 you need to delete logical drives first, then delete extended, then delete primary, then create a primary. Then reboot and format.
Sequence has to be partition and format, unless the partition already exists, you can format immediately , or you can undo all the way to blank.
And before you create anything you probably need to view it first just so you know what you are dealing with.

[yak]

There's only 1 drive.
Partition C:1
Status A
Type PRI DOS
Volume Label
Mbytes 4103
System FAT32
Usage 100%

HD is manufactured by Seagate Modelist 4321.
I'm not entirely sure if HD is defective.


Deleted Primary DOS partition
format completed
volume labe entered as none

volume serial # is 1C25-1EFD

[edfair]

You don't put anything down as volume label. You leave it blank because the report you gave in your last post indicated that there was no volume label. You would put whatever name was reported using choice 4.

[GaryRouth]

Hi all -
. . . and here's a link for the Seagate hard drive diagnostics. The one you'll want will be the SeaTools Desktop. The webpage that link points to has lots of helpful information on how it works [basically the downloaded program creates a bootable floppy from which the diagnostics run]. This should give you a convincing yes or no as to the health of the drive.
http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/index.html

You have to set the floppy device as the 1st boot device in your Bios Setup screens when it's time to boot from the floppy.

Best of luck
. . . Gary

[yak]

Good news and bad news

Good news first.
After deleteing primary dos partition I was able to trigger master diskette/cd combo to start reinstalling HD.
Thanks everyone, it worked.

Bad news.
Due to cd rom, pc is unable to finish final setup,
setting up hardware/initializing dirver database.

Yup, because of piece of garbage CD drive, I can't get the damn thing set up! Some of you might ask why are you torturing yourself? This challenge became a mission now. I could taste the success and tell all you guys good news but alas...

Is it possible to replace a different cd drive from another PC?
I have old NEC lying around and I know its cd drive is good. Can I replace those two cd drive?

Meanwhile, I will continue to boot up PC to see if somehow cd drive will spin just enough to finish its final step.

[edfair]

Best step is to try and see. Some work, some don't. Make sure the drive jumpers are set the same as the old. And don't despair if it doesn't work. You are making progress.

[yellohut]

ok... let's start over here.
first boot into dos (with cd rom support) like you did before.
then insert the master recovery cd into the cd rom drive.
when you are at the c prompt type "e:\" without the quotes. if nothing comes up than type "d:\"
that should get you looking at the cd drive.
then type "dir /w" it will list everything on the cd.
look for something like "setup.exe" or something similar. than type that "setup.exe" and it should run the setup program and set you on your way.

[yak]

Is it necessary to start setup.exe?

I'll go through the steps to see where I am at.

Originally, master boot diskette wouldn't trigger cd to respond.
Tried to go step by step... didn't work
Tried to change win.ini and system.ini... didn't work

Fdisk and deleting primary dos partition
1. when I put master recovery diskette, it responded and trigger recovery cd to run
2. during the initial setup, cd drive acted funny and did not respond. PC asked several times to abort, retry or fail.
I had to open/close the try several times until I saw the green light and sound of spining came on.
3. window menu poped up and had 5 options; chose full reinstallation
Again, I had to struggle with cd drive but it reinstalled HD and win 98 by copying from recovery CD.
4. Asked to remove the diskette but cd was to remain for the final setup
5. PC did boot up again and 'setting up hardware window' poped up and started to initialize driver hardware.

Win98 is now setting up your hardware and any plug and play devices you may have

6. at this point, PC starts to crash again.

Usually this window pops up;

Msgsrv32
this program has performed an illegal operation and will be shot down


I can hear cd driver making 'choking sound'
I'm fairly sure it's the cd driver problem since it never ran smoothly. So that's why I thought of exchanging cd drivers.

Or should I start all over again?

[GaryRouth]

Yak - you mentioned you have an old NEC cd-drive around to try. If it's 8x or better, give it a go = if it's functional, it should be enough to get Windows installed [if it is indeed only problems with the current cd-drive that's causing your troubles]

I still recommend testing your memory with DocMemory and the SeaGate hard drive with SeaTools (the links are in previous posts). These will run from floppies, and don't need a cd-drive around at all. If either the hard drive or RAM is having trouble, it will save you a lot of time finding out sooner rather than later.

Once the memory and hard drive test out OK, I'd try putting the NEC cd-drive in (removing the non-functioning one, of course, and do pay attention to jumpers & cables - the dark stripe on the cable [which indicates the side with "pin 1"]usually attaches nearest the power connector for the drive, & the older drive was probably jumped "Slave" = which on older cd-rom drives is usually the middle 2 pins (like this [ : | : ] ).

Then start all over with fdisk, then run your Recovery set again.

I don't believe you need to specify setup.exe, since from your previous post it was able to "trigger" (or switch over) to the cd-drive & its Recovery Disk. It does at this point sound like your older cd-drive might be failing - not uncommon at all. (After all, they usually only cost about $20 nowadays).

Hope all is well soon
. . . Gary

[p.s. ... if you plan to run any games from the cd-drive, you'll probably need to get something recent - burners are inexpensive, you could get that extra function for about the same price (might have to play the rebate game, though)]

[yak]

Thanks Gary. I'll try it and get back to you guys.

[andyms18a]

yak the recovery cd your using is it for this computer ?

[yak]

Recovery diskette and cd are belong to PC.
Win98 boot disk, I d/led from fdisk.com.

Btw, Q is designated as cd drive. Is that normal?

[andyms18a]

yes the boot disks from bootdisk .com set the cd drives to Q its not a problam

[yak]

Woops, I meant www.bootdisk .com

Just switched with NEC cd drive.
It appeared to be the pc is not accepting my new drive.
This appears when I boot up the machine for cd drive;

On very first screen,

detecting HDD secondary master.... nec cd-rom drive:282

On next screen,

secondary master disk cd mode 3

Before the exchange,

first it said
detecting HDD secondary master cd rom

then,
secondary master disk cd mode 4

Is there some way to change from mode 3 to 4?

Was the swapping successful?
Not sure with cd-rom drive:282

Thanks guys.

[GaryRouth]

Don't worry, it should be fine. Since it's an older drive, it's transfer rate is a little slower.

The 282 refers to the NEC's model (aka CDR-282). It's old enough that it's hard to find any information under that model number - if you'd like, take a peek at the label & see if it has a different model #. A mode 3 drive transfers data at ~11mb/s, while a mode 4 drive transfers data at ~16mb/s (same speed as DMA - the first DMA, before UDMA came out & boosted speeds even further). That must be a pretty darned old NEC, but might be good enough to get you through the install. [Then you can replace it :)]
. . . Gary

[yak]

When I try to reinstall HD again, it said cd drive is not responding/there's no cd in cd drive.

I don't think exchange was successful. Is there some way to change the outcome by playing around with BIOS setting?

[GaryRouth]

For most Cd-drives, you really want to leave the Bios setting to "Auto". Since the drive is fairly ancient, it's a good chance that you have in your possession two cd-drives that aren't working like they should.

I took a quick look at today's Sunday paper, and there are several $20 CD-RW drives available (most via rebate, alas) at BestBuy, Fry's, CircuitCity, CompUSA...etc. Even the office supply stores have 'em cheap.

Ask around = it's likely a friend has a old working reader around, since many users upgraded to burners. And swapping the drives in and out only takes a minute.

Sorry about the NEC - I had an old 4x NEC "4cd-changer" for ages and ages --> it's still running in a PC I donated to a local preschool. They are usually good drives.
. . . Gary

[p.s. ...one thing you could check - is to check which drive letter was being queried for the disk. If the program was looking in D: and the cd-drive was set to Q: it isn't going to find it. If you are booting from the bootdisk.com disk that sets the cd-drive to either "R" or "Q", switch to that drive letter before starting setup. If using your Recovery floppy and Recovery CD, boot from that floppy & it should be able to query the right drive . . . If that is indeed what you've already done, then it's likely a dead (or extremely dirty) drive]

[yak]

How can I change the cd drive letter?
When I try to get response by typing,

c:\> q:

it doesn't acknowledge. As a matter of fact, d through z don't make any difference. I can't find cd drive letter though it said Q during the installing process.

There might be a chance that new(!?) NEC drive recognize letter D or E while BIOS setting is designated as Q.
Okay, this sounds really confusing. What I'm asking is,
is there possible way to find out what is the true drive letter and if they are different, can I change them into one?

Thanks again for all your help.

[GaryRouth]

Sorry that the drive letter thing is a bit confusing. For now, don't worry about that - You can learn all about it later.
_____________
Something to try: Let's see if the NEC is really a goner or not.

If you have a data CD (perhaps an original program disk - as long as it's a program that runs on Windows 9x), put it in the NEC drive. [Don't use the Recovery disk!]. Then boot with the floppy disk from bootdisk.com. Choose "Start computer with cd-support". The computer should start with an A: prompt. At the A: prompt, type Q:

At this point, if the NEC is working and the data CD is OK, the computer should show a Q: prompt. If not, you can try another data CD. If it still can't get to a Q: prompt, the NEC is no good. You'll need to find one that will read a CD using this same procedure. Once you do, you'll know you have a working cd-drive, and you can go back to using your Recovery disks.

Check your Recovery CD, too. Does it look smudged or scratched? If so, it might not have been your original cd-drive's fault after all - you might just have had a damaged Recovery Disk. You can try reinstalling your original cd-drive, finding a good data Cd & see if you can read it OK [boot from the floppy bootdisk, switch to Q:, and type dir from the Q: prompt = this should list the files on the CD]

This might seem hard or complicated, but you'll be surprised: it actually only takes a few minutes.

Best of luck
. . . Gary

[yak]

No matter which cd drive I used, I get this prompt;

invalid drive specification


I've tried with all the letters and got no answers. Stil, cd drive works. I just can't manually switch from a to ?

[GaryRouth]

If you see a cd-drive detected in the Bios as the POST progresses, the bootdisk from bootdisk.com should be able to find it. Look carefully as the boot from the floppy starts, it should tell you the letter for the cd-drive. Earlier you mentioned Q, but I've also seen some bootdisk.com disks that use R. Try both uppercase (capital letters) and lowercase ('small' letters), and put the colon (:) after the letter.

Try again.
. . . Gary

[p.s. ...are you certain that you are booting from the floppy? If you are, you should be at the A: prompt, not the C: prompt ---> might want to check in Bios Setup to make sure the 1st boot device is the floppy]

[edfair]

Bootdisk should be reporting what it is doing. It may be going too fast for you to see.
During the menu selection there may be a splash screen at teh bottom to tell you how to go to single step. If there is, go that route, [shift]+[F8] I think. Then cd support.
Should give you the results of each driver loaded. You should see a "found" report for the cd support in config.sys and a drive assignment when mscdex loads. That drive assignment will be the one to use.

[yak]

When I put win98 boot disk (from bootdisk.com),

remove disks or other media.
press any key to start.


Don't have any other disk or media other than boot disk.
When I press a key, it continues to say the samething.

remove disks or....

This was the disk I worked on fdisk and I checked the directory so the disk seemed to be ok.

[andyms18a]

go in to the bios and check first boot device is floppy drive

[yak]

a, cd rom, c

When I boot with win98 boot disk in drive A, this is what I get;

remove disks or other media.
press any key to start.


Boot disk is the same one I used to delete and reinstall HD and Win98. So the diskette must be okay.

I also checked the HD with disc diagnostic took which I d/led from Seagate website. The test confirmed that there was no error.

Do I need to get a different boot disk in order to get A: prompt?

If the new cd drive is asking for a different drive letter (D vs Q), how can I change that?

[yak]

I think I found NEC drive's letter.... E
But PC's original cd drive was designated as Q.
How can I change it to Q or E?
As long as they are the same, it doesn't matter which one it is.

[GaryRouth]

Hi all -

yak - you shouldn't be seeing that message about remove disks, that's not right. Might want to scan that floppy for viruses, because it makes no sense for a boot floppy to give that message (except after using fdisk, which requires a system restart).

Might want to scan the floppy from your Packard Bell recovery set, too, if it's not write-protected (in fact, you might want to scan it either way). Just to make sure there's no funny business on the floppies.

Here's what I think is happening:
1) The floppy from your Recovery Set can't find the NEC, because it's an older cd-drive, and if the Packard Bell recovery routine boots from a floppy and runs in DOS, it needs a DOS driver for the cd-drive.

2) When you run the Recovery Set with your original cd-drive, it finds the drive (since it's a tad more recent), but then the Recovery is undermined since the cd-drive is failing (or perhaps the IDE controller on the motherboard that the cd-drive is plugged into is failing).

3) So ---> I'm thinking that if you can find a decent cd-drive, you won't have to fuss with strange bootdisks anymore, you'll be able to just run the Recovery Set and be done with it [I do recommend scanning for viruses first, though, since something could have ended up on one of your floppies & you don't need any extra trouble]

So, let's hope it's as easy as 1,2,3 :)
Best of luck,
. . . Gary

[p.s. ...one more question - do you have a Win98 installation CD, in addition to the Recovery Set CD? If so, and you don't care about losing whatever software is bundled on the Recovery Set, you could set your computer to boot from the cd-drive (set 1st boot device to "CDROM") and just let it install Win98 from there]

[yak]

Have master recovery diskette, recovery cd and win98 cd.

[GaryRouth]

Looks like the choice is yours:
1) If you want the software bundle from the Recovery CD, you'll need a working drive that gets along with that Packard Bell "Master Floppy". I would imagine most cd-drives from the time of purchase of that PC and since would be fine. The NEC probably predates it by a fair stretch.
2) If you don't care about the software bundle, or have separate disks that you can load after the operating system, you can try it with the old NEC. Try setting the boot order to CDROM first, put your Win98 installation disk in, and start her up. If it starts OK, it should detect the Primary DOS partition you created earlier and offer to format it. Say "Y" (Yes) to "Enable Large Disk Support?", this will have Win98 format the disk with FAT32, it's native file format.

If you still can't boot from the cd, you could try yet another disk from bootdisk.com = try for one Without the "Ram drive" - this will make it simpler for you to find the letter of your cd-drive. Type setup at the prompt for the drive letter of the cd-drive & off you go. The generic drivers on the bootdisk.com disks usually are fairly extensive, and have a good chance of working on your NEC.

Either way, you should be close to being able to install.
. . . Gary

[yak]

Thanks again, Gary. I'll try that.


I have to tell ya how stupid i am. The reason win98 boot disk didn't work was, get this, I didn't opened up before copying into the diskette. Duh!

Now boot disk works just fine and i get a:\> prompt. Letter E was confirmed as NEC cd drive letter. I was able to open up the directory.

[yak]

I typed up e:\> setup with recovery cd but it didn't do anything. What should I type?

Here is the dir;

apps
comand
dosmenu
floppy
tools
win98

[edfair]

I would suspect that the recovery CD is an autoboot. Meaning that you go into the CMOS setup and change the sequence to CD, c, a or whatever it takes to get the CD as the first thing. Then reboot.

[GaryRouth]

yak - you can only use the bootdisk.com disk with the Win98 installation disk. If you put the Win98 disk in the NEC and type setup from the e: prompt, setup will start. But you will only be installing Windows.

If you want to run the Recovery Disk, you can try booting from it like edfair suggests (although it seems like you tried this earlier, and it seemed then that your Recovery set on the Packard Bell has to be "triggered" from the Packard Bell "master floppy" first). It would make sense for the Recovery Disk to be bootable, but the old U.S. Packard Bell wasn't famous for making sense. Give it a try anyway & see.

You can also simply try that Packard Bell floppy again with the Recovery Disk in the NEC. But I think we tried this before - can't hurt, though, to try again. It will work if it has a driver compatible enough for the old NEC.

If the Recovery Set is what you'd prefer, by all means why not try for it. But you might have to at least temporarily borrow a cd-drive from someone to use just long enough for the Recovery to run. Then you could give the drive back to them. Then you can put the old NEC back in. The NEC will run fine in Windows 98, it just isn't getting along with the old Packard Bell floppy.

Packard Bell did a few things rather topsy-turvy in the U.S. That's why they're not in business here anymore. The new Packard Bells in Canada, Europe, Asia (& probably many other locations as well) really can be considered NEC-brand computers, for NEC bought Packard Bell = it was their call to discontinue the U.S. operations. I think they made the right call. The newer machines are of a similiar quality with most major OEMs (Gateway, Dell, HP, IBM . . .) [in fact MSI and Gigabyte are among their major motherboard suppliers]

Hope it's up and running soon.
. . . Gary

[yak]

No electricity for several days thanks to Issabelle, i'm finally able to come back here.

So far, I couldn't able to finish anything. Here's what's going on;

When I use NEC drive, pc said, 'no cd in drive.'
When I use original drive, cd drive would not spin so no cigar.
Is it ok to replace with cd rw drive?
I think NEC drive is too old(?) for my pc.

[mike breck]

Yes, it's OK to use a burner. It will just act like a CD-Rom drive.

It's a long shot - but try booting up with your bootdisk and the PB CD again and at the prompt type "E:\PBSETUP.EXE" (without the inverted commas).

[yak]

None of the combinations worked.
Original cd drive continued to not function.
I was able to get it upto reinstalling HD & win98 but unable to finish when the PC rebooted itself and never finished the final step. It always get screwed as it stated 'starting win98 for the first time.'

Switching with old NEC cd drive didn't help either.
When checking with win98 boot disk, its' drive letter is assigned as E. I could type 'dir' to list cd's content. However, if I tried to start reformatting, pc would say 'there's no cd.'

Tried with win98 with no ram
Drive letter then change to R. Again, 'there's no cd' would come up as well.

Checked the HD with Seagate hd check diskette and there was no error so HD seemed to be fine.

Call me a cheap bastard but I don't even want to spend $20 for a new cd drive. I have a feeling that even with new drive, this junk wouldn't work.

[yak]

E:\PBSETUP.EXE didn't get any reaction.
No error message, nothing....

[GaryRouth]

I certainly can understand not wanting to throw money away - you can try asking around: one of your friends might have one you could borrow [just long enough to see whether or not it helps - if all works OK, give them back the drive (unliess they are Really Good friends & let you have it free :) ) and then you can decide if you want to spend the $20+ for a new CD-RW]

[btw, for just readers (not burners) I've seen them all the way down to $10 or for free (via rebates) just to get folks into the store]
. . . Gary

[yak]

Maybe I should shop around for the drive....

[GaryRouth]

If there's a Best Buy near you, they have a 52x32x52x LiteOn CD-RW on sale this week for $20 [$60 in the store, minus $30 and $10 rebates]. I've had good luck with the LiteOn burners = about a dozen so far, no problems with any. And their reputation is good.

And you could make backups with the new burner :)
. . . Gary

[yak]

Bad news.

I replaced with cd-rw drive(very functional) and tried to reinstall, pc spew out this messege as it started win98 for the first time.

Msgsrv32
this program has performed an illegal operation and will be shot down

Maybe it's the cd rom itself. Even with new cd-rw drive, reinstallation was very unstable; I had to redo it several times in order to make it all the way. The problem occurred when the intallation finished and it tried to reboot itself for the final step.

[GaryRouth]

yak - back at the start of your thread we mentioned testing both the hard drive and the memory. If you weren't able to get to that before, looks like it's definitely time now. You've gotten past a cd-drive situation, but since you're still getting errors, there's a likelihood that other components might be damaged also.

To test the memory - http://www.simmtester.com. Throughout the thread you've mentioned invalid page faults off and on, along with illegal operations and exception errors. Knowing if the memory is good or bad will help a lot.

I've pasted my previous post about the drive diagnostics: Here's a link for the Seagate hard drive diagnostics. The one you'll want will be the SeaTools Desktop. The webpage that link points to has lots of helpful information on how it works [basically the downloaded program creates a bootable floppy from which the diagnostics run]. This should give you a convincing yes or no as to the health of the drive.
http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/index.html

Which CD were you installing from? If it was your regular Win98 disk, try it in another computer & browse the contents. [If you've got a lot of time & space, you can try copying the whole thing, just to see if the whole thing is readable]. You can try the same with the Recovery CD - browsing it probably won't help much (since it's compressed) - but copying it will give you an idea.

So I've given you three more tasks
1) test the memory
2) test the hard drive
3) test the cd-rom disk

Usually, you'll want to test the first two right away when troubleshooting, they can save you lots of time.

Good luck & Tylenol
. . . Gary

[. . . hmm, re-reading this through, I don't see if you checked for boot sector viruses or not (is the PB 'master floppy' write-protected? If not, it could have gotten infected, and has been re-infecting the hard drive. Scan any floppies you use during this work, and then write-protect them). . . and run a quick boot sector check with a bootable antivirus disk. ]

[yak]

Check Seagate HD & test didn't find any error.

Check the memory with docmemory,
the test would stop in the middle of its testing. It would just freeze up and wouldn't do anything.

Original cd drive, I think, finally kicked the bucket. I've noticed that the green light is on all the time as pc indicated that it couldn't set the speed right.

Can't open the tray properly, either. Is it because of the dust it accumulated over the years or something else? My new pc cd rw drive started to do the same thing; the tray door would not open and I have to reboot the pc in order to have it function normally.

[GaryRouth]

Glad to hear that the hard drive tested OK.

Sad to hear the memory didn't.

Hard to say what's up with the cd-drives, since with dicey memory anything can happen. [I doubt that it's a dust problem]. Is the cd-rw new or a trustworthy hand-me-down?
--------------------------
Really didn't want to hear that the memory tests out badly: because your model Packard Bell is said to be problematic with modules. You have the standard amount for the MultiMedia 730 = 40mb. I'll assume that both slots are full: one with an 8mb stick and one with a 32mb stick. Those should be the original modules, and should be CAS2 PC66 Sdram Dimms. Some of the memory sites say that industry-standard PC66 doesn't always work with your model. I looked at 32mb and 64mb PC66 modules guaranteed to work with your board from Crucial and a few other vendors, and the guaranteed sticks are a lot more expensive than the average stick. The cheapest stick supposed to work with your board was $15 (+$6 shipping=$21) for a 64mb stick at Kahlon. But they are not a well-reviewed vendor = buying from them is like rolling the dice [they have a poor record for returns]. Crucial asks $50 for just a 32mb module [cas2 PC66] guaranteed for that board. For that price, you could just about go get another motherboard (I've seen some Albatron boards matched with some Thoroughbred XPs for $70 locally) = and what a difference in performance that would be! = Also consider that a 256mb stick of quality DDR333 (or "PC2700") can be had for $30, and you can see why I don't recommend spending more than $25 for any replacement parts for the Packard Bell.
---------------------------
The sad part is, since DocMemory couldn't finish at all - it might be bad memory, or it might be yet another problem with your system, since the system froze. Might be just bad memory, might be the motherboard itself is hosed. It doesn't look good.

If you are Really Lucky, maybe a friend has a 64mb cas2 PC66 stick you could try. And maybe that will be all you need. [remove your original 40mb of memory when you try a new stick]

Don't spend any real money on this one, because it just might not make sense in either the long or the short run. My first inclination with older "value" computers is to try and fix them for $25 (or less!) for parts - because any investment past that point starts to have less to show for the dollars.

Hope your stars are on the lucky side this week
. . . Gary

[yak]

Got so mad at tha piece of junk, i finally trashed it. Well, damn thing was so tightly wrapped up with plastic cover/metal incase, just to reach in was a task itself. Somehow, leaned on the main power switch cord and after that, pc wouldn't even turn on. Oh well, big thanks to everyone who valiantly try to help, again thank you very much, especially Gary who stuck with me till the bitter end.

ps
While trying to remove memory card, i noticed that one of them came out really easy. I wonder if the card was not inserted properly....

[GaryRouth]

I suppose the memory mystery will best be left unsolved. . .

The nice thing about all the grief that system gave you = is how much you'll enjoy today's systems. The ease of use has really improved, in so many areas.

Well, now you have your "red badge of courage" for fortitude in the face of unrelenting hardware! You stuck with the patient like a field medic. Now you get shore leave.
. . . Gary