a tough problem that has Tech Support stumpt!

[TwoRails]

First, it sure is nice being back after not being able to get online for over two weeks! :eek: :)

I just got off of over 6 hours of tech support calls with about 3+ hours of it being at the "escalated" level. Nobody has a clue.

I just upgraded to "new" tech from my old DSL to 1.5MB DSL. This computer has no problem getting online. My other computer has no problem, but only if this computer is on!?!? If this computer is not turned on, then the other computer can not find a connection.

Everybody said that was impossible, but while they where watching the connection at their end, it would come on and go off with this machine, and never come on with the other one. When this one is on, no problems with the other being online.

My old setup was an internal DSL "dailup" modem and the other computer shared the Internet with this machine with ICS. No problems there. But with the external modem, it seems like the other machine is still looking to this one for it's OK to go online.

It's not the modem, as they hand delivered a modem, and both (different models) act the same.

We went thru every setting we could think of, but the right one apparently.... Tried each computer seperately, different cables, different modems, and 6 hours worth of other stuff...


What is making this happen?? Any ideas??

TIA :)

[bailey]

and your useing a router, right ?

[TwoRails]

The one modem has a built in router, the other doesn't. When hooking up the problem computer directly (and only) to either modem, the problem is the same. I even hooked up a seperate router so both modems would only see on device, and the problem was the same.

[bailey]

it sure sounds like a hardware problem to me
and I am sure that you know how to set it all up correctly too

[Panama Red]

If you haven't already, I would uninstall the ICS from any and all machines if you are using an external router. Does each machine have it's own nic connected to the DSL router? If so, after uninstalling ICS, remove each nic in the Device Manager reboot and reinstall the nic drivers. Just some ideas, hope they help.

[viperpa33s]

Sounds like ICS is not disabled in the host computer. If you disabled ICS and the problem still persists then sounds like ICS is corrupted. I knew a person who had the same exact problen you had.

[bailey]

I missed seeing that ics thing, it could very well be whats messing you up

[TwoRails]

Originally posted by bailey
it sure sounds like a hardware problem to me
and I am sure that you know how to set it all up correctly too Thanks for the credit, bailey, but I don't know much about NICs and even less about networking :(

Since the other computer works just fine (as long as this one is up) I'm heisitant to call it a hardware problem, except maybe the NIC?

Originally posted by Panama Red
If you haven't already, I would uninstall the ICS from any and all machines if you are using an external router. Does each machine have it's own nic connected to the DSL router? If so, after uninstalling ICS, remove each nic in the Device Manager reboot and reinstall the nic drivers. Just some ideas, hope they help. I am not networking the two systems together, so I don't need the related stuff. I looked for ICS to uninstall, but found it nowhere!?! It was there a couple of weeks ago when the old DSL was up and running.

Yes, both boxes have their own NIC and CAT5 cable to the modem and or router.

Originally posted by viperpa33s
Sounds like ICS is not disabled in the host computer. If you disabled ICS and the problem still persists then sounds like ICS is corrupted. I knew a person who had the same exact problen you had. Yes, it seems like the other box needs this one to connect, but I don't want to "steer" any ideas. As mentioned, I can't figure out how to disable the ICS on the problem box to see if it stops the problem. Can't find it in Add/Remove programs, not in Window's components, nor anywhere I looked in network settings.

Sorry, I forgot to mention this box is running XP Pro, and the other is XP Home. No firewall on the problem box (it was using the ZA Pro setup on this machine) and Windows firewall is off.

[bailey]

I think one way you can uninstall ICS is to go control panl
add remove programs
left side of screen click on add remove windows componets
when box opens I think ICS is at the top under networking when you do find it, uncheck the box
and click ok
it will then be removed from the system after a reboot

[Panama Red]

Here's a link on how to remove ICS. It's in the registry so be careful.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;263276

[viperpa33s]

This was easy to find, but here is how to disable internet sharing in Windows XP. Try it and see how it works:



To disable ICS through the Desktop in Windows XP, you must be the Administrator.

* Right-click on My Computer and select Manage and then select Services and Applications.
* Select Services and then Internet Connection Sharing.
* Double-click on Internet Connection Sharing and then on Startup Type select Disable from the pull-down menu option.
* Click on Apply.

To disable ICS through the Control Panel in Windows XP

* Click the Start button and then double-click on Control Panel.
* Click on Administrative Tools.
* Click on Services.
* Scroll down until you see Internet Connection Sharing located under ICS Firewall.
* Double click on Internet Connection Sharing and then on Startup Type select Disable from the pull-down menu option.
* Click on Apply.

[DragonNOA1]

ICS has never worked for me. It's always been a hassle. I'm guessing you need to update the old computer with the new ICS config for your external modem, but I'm sure you have already done that. Hooking up the problem computer directly to the modem and it still can't get online is weird. Good Luck my friend.

Edit* Whoops, I should refresh my browser before posting.

[kstatefan40]

I would suggest shutting down ZA on the computer, on my networks (i have set up a wapping three), it has been known to cause problems if the security is set too high. I have no other ideas, but i hope this helps.

[TwoRails]

I didn't find it there, bailey, but I'll look again (it's been a long day!)

Good idea, Panama Red. That one's for Win 98, but I'll dig around to see if they have one for XP

[bailey]

dang it
the more I learn, the more I find out I don't know
where does it all end

[TwoRails]

I have to learn to type faster!! All those posts wheren't there when I started my last post!

viperpa33s, I'll check those uninstall instructions out.

Thanks, DragonNOA1, but so far I've not been too lucking in getting this fix, but we'll figure it out :)

I don't have ZA on the "problem" box, kstatefan40, but I did try turning it off on this on, but the problem persists...

I'll have to get ICS off the other box and try again. Maybe delete any trace of any network (if I can figure out how), too!

I hear ya, bailey! Sometimes I think I'm going backward :eek: :)

[edfair]

Do you have connection lights to show activity on the router?
Lights indicating connection when the one is on and the old is off?
Sounds like the machine failing has a gateway problem. And my first gut inclination would be to tear the networking out (OS wise), take the system through a cold boot, and let it reinstall the network stuff. You may have already done it.

[edfair]

And on a second note, when you try to find the internet, have the machine with ICS off. Assuming that the ICS still has some fragment that can be accessed.

[lostplanet]

if you run out of ideas you could try posting at this site(register or anon)
http://bbs.adslguide.org.uk/
i'm sure they'ed like to get their teeth into something like this.
:) good luck

[TwoRails]

Still no joy :( - There was no change after removing / disabling ICS.

I also uninstalled the NIC, got the latest drivers (years old, however) and reinstalled. It was showing as a RealTek (spelling?) but now correctly shows as a DLink DFE-530TX+. No change in the problem.

The other computer can see the Internet ONLY when this computer is booted up. If this box is off (or disconnected), the other box can't get online.

The modem / router lights show normal when this box is on. The power and "Internet" LEDs are on solid, and the lines to the computers will blink when in use. If this computer is turned off, then I still have a solid power LED, but the "Internet" LED steadily (and slowly) blinks. The tech support said it is trying to "train" when it's blinking.

Yes, I've tried removing all networking but no change. Is there maybe a component that is not obvious that I may have missed? The only thing showing is the fresh NIC install I just did.

[Allanv]

my bet is the 2nd pc still has the default gateway of the first pc and not the router hence while its on it works

[TwoRails]

Originally posted by Allanv
my bet is the 2nd pc still has the default gateway of the first pc and not the router hence while its on it works Where do I check this out at?

Under Network Connection Details, this box sez:

IP address: 192.168.0.2
Sub 225.225.225.0
Assigned by: DHCP


The problem box (2nd PC) sez:

IP address: 192.168.0.232
Sub 225.225.225.0
Assigned by: DHCP

When PC #2 can't get on (or if it's online, for that matter) I can type in 192.168.0.1 in IE's address bar and the modem menu / page will come up.

[bailey]

you don't want that asigned by dhcp on the default gate way

it needs to be a address

[TwoRails]

Sorry, I don't understand.... :(

[bailey]

the default gateway is the ip address that the system will use to connect to the internet, your isp gave you a ip address, it is that address that is the gateway to the internet
and is the ip address that needs to be listed there

also the last number on the ip address on one is .2
so on the second one should be .3 not 232

that would mean you have over 200 systems connecter

the last numbers are asigned sequenctually

[DragonNOA1]

What is the default gateway set to?

[bailey]

it should be 192.168.0.1

[TwoRails]

OK, I found where the default gatway is listed, and it is 192.168.0.1 on both machines.

I can't find where to change the 192.168.0.232 to .3, however...

[bailey]

I am getting a gut feeling that the router/modem is not confiqured correctly
and I am not familar with that one so I can't say too much about that except the problem is in that set up

[TwoRails]

The one modem is brand new and does not have a built in router. The other router is their local tech branch's test modem and Does have a built in router. If I hook up only PC #1 to either modem, no problems. If I hook up only PC #2 to either modem, it can't get online. If I add PC #1 to the equation, then, and only then, can PC #2 get online. (I use a seperate router when testing the one line modem: nothing changes as PC #1 still has to be on for PC #2 to work!)

We setup up both modems a dozen (or more) times to make sure. No changes...

[bailey]

then pc 2 seams to be having the problem only.
have only the one pc (2) connected and trouble shoot with that one only, when we can get it set to connect to the internet, then the problem is solved.

so connect just that one and di the ipconfiq thing , then do the relaese and renew, see what happens.

also sence it is a xp system, it can and will confiqure itsself to the internet, you can play with it a bit and another thing that might work is to remove all the network connections in the control panel and reboot, that should make it reinstall and set up things by its self, do the same with the network card too,
but just be sure to do it all while connected,

another thing that has worked in the past is to power down everything, power up modem, power up the xp system and it should auto detect things too.

[TwoRails]

Originally posted by bailey
then pc 2 seams to be having the problem only.
have only the one pc (2) connected and trouble shoot with that one only, when we can get it set to connect to the internet, then the problem is solved. 100% agreed!
Originally posted by bailey
so connect just that one and di the ipconfiq thing , then do the relaese and renew, see what happens. I did yesterday, several times, and no change.
Originally posted by bailey
also sence it is a xp system, it can and will confiqure itsself to the internet, you can play with it a bit and another thing that might work is to remove all the network connections in the control panel and reboot, that should make it reinstall and set up things by its self, do the same with the network card too, but just be sure to do it all while connected, Also tried that, too. Maybe I should physically remove the NIC and see if I can find any remenants? I also did a remove and reinstall of the NIC drivers this morning with no difference
Originally posted by bailey
another thing that has worked in the past is to power down everything, power up modem, power up the xp system and it should auto detect things too. I even reset the modem a couple of times along with the power up / down thing....

Very frustrating!!

You think it could just be a non-compatible NIC? Heck, it's the same one I was using when I was running Win 98.2. (DLink DFE-530TX+)

[bailey]

interesting thogh, its got to be something simple were overlooking

[TwoRails]

Again, agreed :) - The only spare NIC I have is just another one of the same. Maybe I'll swap 'em out, doing a reboot and network clean out inbetween. Can't hurt...

[el_novato]

Can you ping addresses from the problem PC? You can try repairing the winsock using the LSP fix. It's a far shot, but at this point, it wouldn't hurt to try, right?

e.n.:)

[TwoRails]

Yes, I can ping when both PCs are up. The only thing I can ping with PC #2, with PC #1 turned off, is the modem.

[TwoRails]

New Info!:

If I have both PCs running, meaning that PC #2 can get online, and Disconnect PC #1 (with it still running), then PC #2 Will stay connected.

PC #2 will still Not stay connected if PC #1 is simply powered down, the connection is lost.

[TwoRails]

Well, It's Fixed!! It was an I.D. Ten T error.....

My office phone was running thru the old internal DSL modem. I had it removed from Device Manager, and Disabled in Network Connections. But, being a DSL modem, not a regular analog modem like I was thinking, it was still using the unfiltered phone line.

I physically pulled the card, and now everything is just fine.

Sorry for being such an IDIOT! (ie: I.D. Ten T) So embarrassing.... It's just as bad as a new printer not working, and you forgot to plug the dang thing in!

TwoRails

[bailey]

glad you got man
like I said earler, its probly something so simple were over looking it
LOL

[Panama Red]

Outstanding! Great persistence, TR. Glad you're back on track. Now you can enjoy the rest of the weekend, eh?

[TwoRails]

"Back on Track" :D I like it!!

Wow... It's been Sixteen DAYs since I've been on! Talk about withdrawals! LOL :)

Now everything is fine, and my double up on speed does really shine on downloads, and Web pages two.

But the real, main reason for the upgrade is so my wife can get online without this box being fired up. Now she can.

Thanks for all the help Everybody!!

TwoRails -- Back on Track :)

[Allanv]

ya know what i think.

pc1 has its mac adress registered wif the ISP, and when its on it can get online and the isp knows its you. the router however has a different mac address, if you were to get the isp to add the mac address of the router to your account i have the feeling it will work.

See here in the UK i have to tell my isp the mac address of the computer / router connected to the modem or it wont work


well i posted this and you must have posted at the same time :(

glad its fixed ignore this post

[TwoRails]

Just in case anyone else is experiencing a similar problem: I did run into a second problem. I had a conflict with my machine as it was the Host in the last config. I had forgotten to tell Zone Alarm Pro that it was no longer the Gateway to the Internet. Now, everything seems to be running just fine :)

TwoRails

[viperpa33s]

Glad you got it up and running, networking problems is such a pain in the butt. Almost as bad as having Windows problems itself.


Cheers