Setting Up Cable

[FZWG]

Appreciate some help.

Currently have a dial-up connection, and would like to have a cable connection. However, have some unusual logistics to overcome. The three computers are not in the same building.

Have a garage, about 20 feet from the house, where there is a computer/hobby room we call the ‘outback‘. This is the location where the computer is used the most.

Inside the house, also have a computer in the bedroom (second floor), and one in the basement. There is no computer in the main floor.

There is a television connected to cable in the outback, the bedroom, and the basement.

Starting with the ‘outback’, presume that a splitter can be used to connect the computer to a cable modem and the existing cable there.

What we are trying to figure out is how to also connect the computer in the bedroom and in the basement to cable, without paying Charter.net for a second cable service, since the computers inside the house do not connect to the Internet that often.

Any suggestions as to how we can do all this?

Thanks for the help.

[MulderMan]

get a wireless router, get the cable installed near your main machine and plug the cable into the router, then get wireless cards for all your machines, but the computer in your garage could probably be done with cat5. or is geting wireless out of your price range?

[doctorgonzo]

Definitely go wireless. You will only have one cable modem, so the question is how you will share the connection. Since the computers are in such physically disparate locations, wireless is really the best option. Get a wireless router and two wireless cards (presumably, you will set up the router close to one computer, so you can just use a regular ethernet cable for that PC).

[Lardass]

For anything like that it is the better idea to go wireless. With wireless there are less cables lying around the house and is less chance of interferance i.e heat which can sometimes weaken the signal.

[FZWG]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Checked out wireless equipment at a couple of computer stores nearby. At both places was told that because we are dealing with outside walls and a slanted roof on the upstairs half story of the house, that the wireless reception may not be at its prime.

Hmmmmm……..

This might be a real dumb question, but, if we have one wired modem, can it be disconnected from the computer outback, and brought into the house when that computer is used, which is only on occasion?

Would that keep the same IP address so that we would not have to set up a second connection with Charter.net? Realize this would not be the best of setups, but would like to know if that would work.

[Vigo]

Yes but it'll usually be a hassle. In that case though do not buy a router period since it would add to it. Simply plug the modem directly into the computer while the computer is off. It should auto-configure right away.

If you keep a router on one end so that you can plug in the other two at teh same time. You'll find it a pain to unplug the modem and plug it back in frequently. You'll most likely wind up powercycling or renewing your ip a couple times.

Do NOT run a cat 5 to the garage though. Patch cables aren't designed as outdoor cables.

The easiest solution was suggested- A wireless router and 2 wireless cards. Computer 1 connected to the router via cable.

Have to take a chance on how well the wireless reception is. But if you do indeed get a signal you shouldnt have to worry about losing internet speed. Your internet speed shouldnt be more than 3mbps MAX download. Buy everything 802.11 G.

[Redfallon]

Originally posted by Vigo
Do NOT run a cat 5 to the garage though. Patch cables aren't designed as outdoor cables.


You could run underground conduit from the house to the garage, if you do it properly, it will be weather tight. This is a pretty "hard-core" option that would involve some labor.

I would get wireless 54g, with a repeater to place inside, as close to the garage computer as possible, then it will rebroadcast the signal so the other two can pick it up. You can also buy seperate antennas that will get better reception.

[FZWG]

Thanks for the info.

Will consider the wireless option, but might have to end up with the 'hassle' option of moving the modem around if and when needed (not often).

The computer upstairs is not used enough to warrant all the expense. The one in the basement is hardly ever used for Internet. The computer that is used the most is the one outback.

Q#1: So, if the same modem is used for any of the computers (one runs XP Home, another Windows Me, and another W98SE), the IP address should then remain the same. Is that a correct assumption?

Q#2: If two modems are used, that would create two different IP addresses?

[glc]

You cannot use 2 modems on one account, it will not work.

Your IP will probably change each time you disconnect and reconnect the modem. However, with DHCP this is a non-issue.

I'd still go wireless with possibly an antenna - or bury CAT5. You may not even need an antenna, you would just have to try it without first.

[Karnevil9]

Go wireless. 20 feet is not that great a distance to be from the computer. As GLC pointed out, try it and see if it works. You may have to do nothing. If the signal is weak, there are ways to boost it. You can get a repeater as was mentioned or by a better antenna for the computers receiving the signal. Just make sure you buy a good wirless router and PCI or USB adapters for the two computers in the house. If I am not mistaking SMC is supposed to be a good product.

[glc]

If you find you need an antenna, usually putting one on the access point is sufficient. Just make sure you buy a router that has detachable antennas with standard connectors. Worst case, you can put an outside antenna on the garage, that should punch through anything.

[Redfallon]

Originally posted by Karnevil9
PCI or USB adapters for the two computers in the house.

I would go with PCI if at all possible. USB is too iffy IMHO, and I wouldn't use it if I had a free PCI slot available. Also, if the two computers are older and only have USB 1, and you get 54g, you'll be limiting your network bandwidth.

[MulderMan]

when they installed my cable they just burried the cable from the street into my front lawn anyway, can you buy waterproof cat5?, or is it only fibre optic cables.

[Redfallon]

if the insualtion/shielding around the cable is unbroken, it would be waterproof, provided the ends are indoors or somehow protected. The problem lies in the strength of the insulation, and it's resistance to moisture, age, earth shifting, tree roots, animals, what have you. I would put it in hard pvc or aluminum/steel conduit to be safe. The cable the cable company buried would've been coax, or fiber optic, and it's probably alot heavier and has thicker/better insualtion for use underground.

[Karnevil9]

"I would go with PCI if at all possible. USB is too iffy IMHO, and I wouldn't use it if I had a free PCI slot available. Also, if the two computers are older and only have USB 1, and you get 54g, you'll be limiting your network bandwidth."

That's why it's important to buy good components. I am using my USB Netgear MA101 adapter on this computer because my D-Link DWL-520 PCI adapter is too unstable with it's signal strength. Plus the USB gives me the option to move the receiver if I need to, for better reception. Though I didn't consider the USB 1 point that Redfallon mentioned. If it is USB 1 then you may be better with PCI regardless.
Moral of the story, don't necessarily go with what is on sale this week:)

[FZWG]

Thanks for all the info!!

Looks like going wireless is the best route.
Will give that a whirl and see what happens.

If wireless does not work, guess we will be burying some cable from the router to the house.

"You cannot use 2 modems on one account, it will not work."
Is that because each modem creates its own IP adddress? Would like to know, just for the heck of it.

Thanks again.
:)

[scomac]

When I signed up for my cable internet, My ISP had the option to get a second IP address. I asked them what this would be for, and they told me that way you could have 2 different computers hooked up to 2 modems. Each with their own IP address.

The drawback to using this method would be that making my home network would have been much more difficult. Plus the added expense of a second cable modem and extra for the second IP address.

[FZWG]

Thanks for the reply.

..."Plus the added expense of a second cable modem and extra for the second IP address."

So, in essence, you would of had to pay for a second IP address??

[scomac]

Yep. Although I'm not sure what they charged for the extra IP. You'd have to check with your cable company. Hope that helps.

[FZWG]

Talked to Charter.net, but one person says one thing, another says something else...

Probably an IP address would be generated by each modem, and the bill from the IPS would be x2!!!

[bailey]

so far I do not see any problem with what you want to do.

unless there is a metal siding on the buildings.
you can have the cable connected to the modem anywhere you want to place it and run a cable to the wireless router which can be located in the best location for good signal to all the computers you have, 20 feet is nothing for it to work great.

[Redfallon]

I actually read somewhere that distance is more of a problem for wireless routers (2.4GHz) than walls, floors, furniture, etc. They are, of course, talking distances of 50~100 feet, so you should be ok if the article I read was correct ;) I agree with Bailey that 20feet and even a couple outside walls you should still be able to connect. I would put the router by the computer used most often, or make it so that it gets the strongest signal. Worst case scenario, maybe the upstairs computer only connects at 20~30Mbps instead of 54

[FZWG]

There is metal siding on the house, and the upstairs bedroom is in a half story, so the roof slants on two sides of it, plus the room itself has an inside wall. The side with a window is away from the outback room.

As suggested, going to give wireless-g a whirl. The computer in the bedroom is only used every now and then. If you draw a straight line from the outback computer (ground floor) to the upstairs bedroom, diagonally, it would probably be 25-30 feet.

From the info on your posts, this should not be a great distance to overcome. In any event, connecting at 20~30Mbps instead of 54Mbps should be the heck of a lot better than dial-up!!

If the cable (by the outback computer which is used the most) is connected to the modem, and the modem is connected to a wireless router, would only need a wireless PCI card upstairs in the bedroom, right?

[Redfallon]

You would hardwire the pc outback into the router, I assume, with the cable included with the router. Then you would need a NIC for the upstairs computer and the downstairs one. If price is a concern, you *could* try a USB adapter, and if the two computers aren't being used at the same time you could pull the USB adapter and take it to whichever computer you wanted. This would save buying another NIC. Even if it connects at 802.11a speeds of 11Mbps, it's still faster than cable or DSL connection, and WAY faster than dialup ;)

[FZWG]

Will you clarify:
"You would hardwire the pc outback into the router, I assume, with the cable included with the router."

Wrapped around the axle with this one: "...with the cable included with the router"

Wouldn't the cable go into the modem, the modem wired to the router, and the router wired to the computer outback?

Just want to make sure we do things in the right sequence.

[Redfallon]

yep, the router should come with a cat5 cable, to plug into the NIC on the computer, so ya don't have to buy a short patch cable or an extra wireless NIC. It will go:

cable from wall -> splitter -> modem (that will all be with coax) then cat5 (network cable) from modem -> router -> computer

Then the other 1 or 2 computers will be wireless. Sorry I wasn't too clear, hope I haven't confused ya more.

[FZWG]

Got it!! That's what we thought.

Using a wireless modem, will then need a wireless card for the computer in the bedroom, and hopefully, that will be it.

[kittyfire]

Bah, just typed a long response and lost it. Now I'll just do the cliff's notes version...

The reason you can't run more than one modem is because of the way cable internet service is provisioned. You have an always on connection so you don't sign on with a user name and password. Instead, the mac address of the modem is registered and connectivity is granted to that device. Each modem has a unique mac so if you try to use another modem, it will not be able to connect since that mac address isn't recognized by the cable system. It's the same when people get new modems then call in all upset their internet isn't working. Their internet is fine. There's just a new device with a different mac address trying to get online and it will never get online until that new address is registered.

Most cable companies will let you use more than one modem but to provision more than one modem... that is, to register more that one mac address in the system for you... they charge you for each mac address registered and they charge the full subscription price. So yes, it would double the charges to use more than one modem.

If people want more than one IP address... and they don't want a router IP, but an internet IP... then they have to use a hub. One modem and a hub so they can get additional IPs. If there's more than one person in the house who is a gamer, that's usually what they have to do as some online gaming services will not allow a 192 or 172 IP and with a router you can only DMZ one computer... that is, place it outside the router's scope of responsibility so it doesn't get an IP from the router.

So much for the cliff notes version...

With DSL some people use routers that are able to use their existing phone lines to network their computers together with a special router and adapters that go to the phone outlets in different rooms. Now, I don't know if they make a router that can take a cable internet signal as the uplink then use the existing phone lines to network. If they do, that may be an option for you if the wireless doesn't work properly. If they don't... well if they don't they're losing money because I can see where that'd be advantageous to a lot of users.

Honestly, I think this reply is even longer than the original one I typed.

[scomac]

Thank you for clarifying that Kitty. I didn't realize that was how that worked at the cable company. Truth to tell, it wasn't an option for me so I didn't really pay that much attention to it.

There is another possibility that no one else has mentioned. How about networking the computers thru the electrical outlets. I know I have seen adapters that plug into an existing electric outlet and then the Cat5 cable plugs into that and then into the computer. The network uses the existing house wiring to network the computers.

That would eliminate the necessity of running a conduit from the outback to the house and then having to run the cables from there to where the computers are located. So, any electrical outlet in your home could be a connection point.

[FZWG]

Thanks for all the info, and the explanation about dual modems.

Another question comes to mind, though...

As long as the modem and the wireless router are turned on, the outback computer does not have to be on for the bedroom computer to work.

Is this correct??

[scomac]

Yep, you got it!

[FZWG]

scomac,

On your suggestion:

"There is another possibility that no one else has mentioned. How about networking the computers thru the electrical outlets"

Have not seen equipment of that nature at places like BestBuy, or Circuit CIty.

If using electrical outlets, have a question: Does one computer have to be designated as 'main', and does it have to be on for the other computer in the network to work?

[scomac]

Most places like Best Buy or a CompUSA probably won't carry this item. Might be able to check Staples or OfficeMax and see if they carry it, otherwise, I imagine you'd have to get it online.

The only reason I mentioned it, was that I happened upon the technology when I was doing some research for print servers on D-Link's website. I came across the ethernet to powerline bridge I think is what it's called. Here is a link to the item I'm talking about. http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=4 From there you can download the .pdf file that explains how to set it up. Just in case the link doesn't work, the item you want to look up is the DHP 100.

[FZWG]

Thanks!

Will check it out.

[Karnevil9]

I forgot all about those connections. If I am not mistaken, I think the outlet networking devices have to on the same circuit. You have to have an outlet that is on the same circuit as the one in the garage.

[FZWG]

Hmmmm,

Believe the garage has its own circuit. Will have to check that out also.

Thanks for the info.

[glc]

There's always a phoneline network too, if you have the same line out there as inside.

Here's the router:

http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=34&scid=33&prid=176

Plug the cable modem into its WAN jack, it has one Ethernet jack, plug a computer into it. It has 2 HPNA jacks and a phone jack, plug one of the HPNA jacks into the wall phone jack with a standard RJ-11 cable, plug the phone into the phone jack on the router.

Put a HPNA card in each computer inside, plug it into the phone jack. They have a passthrough jack for a phone, just like a dialup modem.

PCI card:

http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=34&scid=33&prid=130

PCMCIA card:

http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=34&scid=33&prid=193

USB adapter:

http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=34&scid=33&prid=143

[speeddude2000]

yeah. if the connections connected to the router. i heard somewhere they sell a card with the range 5x more than normal. try finding that.

[FZWG]

Hmmmm,

The phoneline option sounds good.

Will check that one out.