Advice for Building a Gaming PC

[Unperson]

Hello everyone.

I would not describe myself as completely clueless (who would?), but I really could use some help determining what sort of hardware I should buy for a new gaming PC. Despite my inexperience, I've decided to build the thing myself in the hope that I can learn something about PC's and get exactly what I want. I ordered my current PC from Dell in January '02 and ended up with a garbage motherboard and a steaming pile of crap known as the GeForce 4 MX. I don't want to be fooled into buying another piece of hardware by thinking that it's better just because it has a higher number.

So anyway, my budget is a bit flexible, but I don't want to spend more than $1500 (US) unless I can convince myself that it's really worth it. With that sort of price in mind, what should I do? I've been looking at some of what is available over at newegg.com and I think I'd like to go with AMD. To be honest, the only reason I say this is because I've heard that AMD is better than Intel for gaming purposes, but I couldn't tell you why. If this isn't true, please tell me.

For the price I'm willing to spend, I don't know if I should stick with an AGP vid card or go for something that uses PCI-e. Also, the price jump from single to dual core processor is enough that I'm not sure it's worth it for what I need. I'd like to get something affordable that is also not going to be obsolete in a year and has a good foundation for future upgrades. If I believe what online stores imply, if I don't go with dual core, SLI, PCI-e I'll be left behind in no time.

I'm also thinking of getting a good sized hard drive, perhaps as much as 200 GB. When I bought my current PC I thought 30 GB was absurdly huge and now I find that I'm working with barely 15-20% free space. I'm thinking that 1 GB of RAM will do for now (most of the motherboards I've looked at can be easily upgraded to 4 GB, so I can take care of that later if I need to do so). I suppose a DVD burner would be nice and I ought to get an FDD as well. Oh, and I'm not interested in a new mouse, keyboard, monitor, speakers, printer etc at this time. I just want to focus on the tower itself.

Well, sorry for the long post. I hope I've provided enough information for you folks to point me in the right direction. I admit that I'm feeling a little frustrated by this whole process, but I imagine that I'm just making things more complicated than they need to be.

I'd really appreciate any help that you could give me.

[bitTRL1000]

The first thing you do need to look at, which you apparently have, is what processor do you want. AMD and Intel will both work great, but you're correct that, in benchmarks at least, AMD beats Intel in gaming performance/dollar. If you don't have a personal preference, and are going to mainly be gaming on your new PC, then I'd say go AMD.

If you decide to go Intel then someone else on here will have to help you as I'm not very familiar with their line. If you go AMD then you'll want to get a Socket 939 processor and motherboard. Are you planning on overclocking? If not then a AMD 64 3500+ would be a fine processor that'll work great for a couple years. Spending more on a CPU won't get you any noticable gaming performance.

For Mobo, the best are Asus and Abit. MSI and DFI are good as well. If you're not going to overclock, I'd just go Asus or Abit as they are recognized as the highest quality and stable mobo's. If you're going to OC then a DFI or other brand may offer you more options.

At your budget I'd recommend getting 2 GB of PC3200 ram. The most recent games really benefit by going from 1 GB to 2 GB. Corsair Value Select ram is very popular if you're not going to OC.

For video card: Right now Nvidia has the best performance/price in the high-end card range, IMO of course. ATI is releasing their next-gen cards over the next couple weeks, so that may change. I'd gather lots of info over that time period and then see what actual retail prices the ATI cards go for in order to determine whether ATI or Nvidia is the best for you.

Oh...you'll want to get a PCI-E graphics card and a motherboard with a PCI-E slot. Virtually all the graphics cards from now on will be released in PCI-E interface only, so don't even think about AGP.

Assuming you're going to be getting a high-end graphics card, which is certainly in your price range, you'll need a 450W or more power supply unit. Make sure the PSU has a 24 pin power connect, which is necessary for PCI-E motherboards. You'll want to get a good name PSU. Forton, Xclio, Antec, are all good names. There are others as well that you can find if you do a search.

Obviously you'll need an optical drive and a hard drive. I hear the Sata II 16 MB buffer HDD's are really nice and fast.

Beyond that you'll need a case and that's pretty much it, at least to get it going.

Here's a sample build for you. Note that I just built a PC 1 month ago, so some of the components I picked because I liked them. Prices are approximate:

Asus A8N-E motherboard - $112
AMD 64 3500+ Socket 939 (Venice core) - $218
2GB Corsair Value Select ram - $175
Nvidia 7800 GTX - $460
Xclio 450W PSU - $56
Western Digital Sata II 250GB HDD - $120
LG DVD Burner - $50
Some case that you like - $70

Total - $1,261

That PC would be a monster gaming machine. You certainly could spend more on the processor and get dual core, but you're going to be spending hundreds of dollars and not seeing any real-world gaming benefit. Of course SLI is a possibility, but I think SLI is only sensible if you want more performance then a single top-end card can give, which is the 7800 GTX. You're price range doesn't really allow that, and even if it did it would be spending a lot of money for benchmark bragging rights only, IMO.

Have fun shopping!

Joe

[DonVito]

I second that.

[Unperson]

Thanks for the quick relipes! I'll have to add an OS to that list (I hear they're useful ) so that's another $90-100 based on what I've seen for XP. So all that's well within the range I wanted to spend.

Thanks again!

[blue60007]

Sounds good...You could save a few bucks by getting a NEC DVD burner, which is like $42 or something. XP Home OEM will run you about $90 and will be quite useful ) You may also consider going the SLI route. Here is an overview of SLI:

http://www.pcmech.com/show/internal/817/

[weremonkey]

I second looking at SLI. you don't have to go for the 2 video cards right now, but if you get a compatible mobo and psu, a couple years down the line, you could add that second card.

[project86]

I think the recommended system is really nice. It all depends on how much you plan on upgrading in the future, and how much care about the price/performance ratio.

You could get a cheaper socket 754 motherboard (DFI Lanparty for overclocking) and pick up a cheap Sempron (64-bit enabled), and the total would be quite a bit less than the above post (~$100 for the Sempron, and $75 for the motherboard). Pick up a good heatsink for $40-50, and OC the crap out of that sempron. Most people can get to 2.5 or so with no problems, putting the "budget" sempron on par with many high end CPU's. The loss of the L2 cache does surprisingly little in real world performance.

Also there's not many games out there that need that much video muscle yet, and a 6800GT or X800XL (or X800XT if you find a deal) can be had for under $300. These should still run everything for a year or longer on high settings.

Again, this is all assuming you want the best bang for the buck. There is nothing wrong with buying the latest high end video card, but it's kind of like buying a new car--you take a big loss. Same with switching to socket939: no major gain in performance over the s754 counterpart, but it sure costs more.

All that being said, if you have the $$$ spend it and you will not be sorry!

[jfk]

See the PC in my signature, which is very similar to what bitTRL1000 suggested (other than vid card and 1 gig of ram). With careful shopping this was about $1500 and is an excellent gaming rig. I think he gave you some great direction. Follow that shopping list and you will be very happy.

[crude4u]

Be sure to get a motherboard that is SATA enabled so you don't have to mess with the card. Also be sure to load the drivers onto a 3.5 floppy so that you can boot to it and install the drivers. I'm amazed at how very fast the SATA is compared the the IDE's.

[Unperson]

Great tips, everyone.

That link from blue60007 was very helpful. It's amazing how much information is out there if you bother to do some reading. With just a little reasearch I've learned more about PC's in the last week than I have in eight years of using them.

As for the whole SLI issue ... If I were to purchase a motherboard that supports a dual core and SLI, but still use the processor suggested by bitTRL1000 and one vid card, would I encounter any difficulty? I'm leaning toward doing that with an intention to perhaps upgrade to dual core and two vid cards later. Or maybe I'll just go with dual core now and grab an extra video card in a year or two.

@ project86

I'm not really comfortable with overclocking. I know many people do it without problems, but I think I'd rather just spend the money now and be safe. Thanks for the advice though. Saving money is definitely something that interests me, but I prepared myself to spend around $1500 so if I get higher end stuff for less than that I'll do it.

Oh, and I'm definitely going to make sure I go with SATA over IDE.

I'm in no rush to buy immediately, so I plan to do some more reasearch and compare prices around the net. The advice I've gotten here has been invaluable. Thanks for being so helpful.

[blue60007]

Using the 3500+ and one 7800GTX would be an awesome combination.

I'd rather buy something that performs at specification where you want it, and not overclock something cheaper to perform where you want it. You'll have better expandibility, stability, and longevity out of the system.

[Jaggannath]

If you do go down the path of SLI you'll need to buy a SLI-compatible mobo, video card and PSU, which will increase the cost a little. It's your call

[bitTRL1000]

For about $70 more than what I had in my sample build you could get the Asus A8N SLI Deluxe or Premium motherboard and a SLI certified PSU. That would set you up nicely to upgrade to SLI in a year or two. The A8N-E motherboard supports dual-core as well as any. The one motherboard I know that doesn't is the Asus A8V-E because of some issue with the Via chipset.

Dual-core CPU's definitely have an advantage over single when running mulitple programs at the same time. But for gaming strictly, the 3500+ and 7800 GTX is a great combination because it gets you just about as much gaming performance as is necessary, but doesn't get into the territory where you're spending money just to say you have a more expensive PC.

[786ARS]

I wouldnt go for a 7800 GTX because if you wanted to go sli, then you'd have to dig deep for a second card. i would go for a 7800GT for about $350, puting an extra $100 towards anything you might need. If you dont want to o'clock then stick with the value ram, but go XMS fo overclocking. And if this a gaming cmp, then dont go for dual core, most games are not made for dual core processors and it would be wasted money.

[blue60007]

Keep in mind that by the time you would ever need to add a second card, there'll be several new cards out and the prices of the 7800GTX will be much less then what you bought the first one at. And stick with a single core for gaming. If it's within budget, get the 7800GTX and 3500+ and maybe go SLI if you want to do that (and it's within budget).

[Unperson]

I'm leaning away from SLI at the moment. I find it hard to imagine that such a set up would be required at any time in the near or even mid-term future and having all the settings absolutely maxed out isn't really a concern for me anyway.

I've pretty much decided to go with the 3500+ and the 7800 GTX, but I've run into a few questions as I've been shopping around:

1. Choosing a case: As long as the case is a mid tower ATX, can I be certain that the motherboard I want to use (listed above in bitTRL1000's post) will fit in there? I notice that some cases have front ports for USB and audio connections. Should this be a determining factor based on the layout of the motherboard? Also, is there any advantage to buying a case that includes a power source?

2. In my current PC I have a DVD-ROM drive and a separate CD-RW drive. Is it better to have combo drive or should I be looking for a DVD-ROM and a separate drive for burning DVD's?

3. What is the difference between SATA 3.0Gb/s and Serial ATA 150? From what I've read I only know that SATA is preferable to IDE drives.

Thanks for your time.

EDIT: Ah, nevermind on the 3rd point. Simply typing the two terms into Google answered my question.

EDIT again: What the heck is Ultra ATA? I'm seeing that on a few sites also as well as listings for interfaces for ATA-100, ATA-133, etc. I'm getting a little confused here.

[bitTRL1000]

As long as it's an ATX case then an ATX motherboard should fit. The layout should not have an effect on whether you can use the front input/output ports. As long as you have connections on the motherboard to hookup a font port, then the cables should be long enough to reach.

I would buy a case without a PS as their quality is usually not very good. Of course, if the case you like comes with a PS and it's not offered without it, then you can buy it and a new PS and use the case's PS as a backup.

If you want to copy from one DVD to another then having two drives would be advantagous. Otherwise I don't think there is a quality difference between combo drives and ROM drives.

Sata 3.0Gb/s is a much higher bandwidth connection then Sata 150Mb/s. Although most HD's don't read fast enough to use up SATA 150's bandwidth, it's still a good idea for future upgradability to go with a SATA II motherboard. Like I said in my first post, the 16 MB buffer Sata II drives seem to be really nice.

Ultra ATA is just IDE 133Mb/s. It's the big ribbon IDE cables.

[weremonkey]

1) Case choice is totally personal. As for the mobo fitting, just make sure the case specs show that it will fit.

2) I would suggest just getting a DVD-RW, most of them support CD burning.

[Unperson]

Thanks for clearing that up bitTRL1000 and weremonkey.

I was just reading some of the comments on newegg.com and saw something that has me a bit concerned. Since this is a gaming PC I'm more or less forced to get Windows XP. I was planning on buying the OEM version for $91.95 but it seems that according to the EULA, if you upgrade your motherboard, the OEM version won't allow you to use the OS anymore. The retail version of XP is almost $200 and there's no way I'm paying that. Since I plan to use this motherboard for some time anyway, I'm not too worried, but what if it fails and I need it replaced?

And this raises the issue of OEM vs. retail. Of all the things I'm purchasing for this build, only my FDD, DVD burner and hard drive are OEM. I'm not bothered about the first two, but the OEM hard drive has me a little worried. I've read that OEM products are often shipped as the hardware in a bag with no documentation or drivers. Will the manufacturer's website have these available for download?

[blue60007]

Floppys, optical and hard drive require no drivers (unless your mobo needs drivers for SATA drives, but the motherboard comes with them). And your motherboard usually comes with cables and things for the drives. One thing that works is search for reviews on the mobo you chose, and usually these reviews tell you exactly what's included.

As for OEM Windows, I think (I may be wrong here) but XP (OEM or retail) can be re-activated after a major hardware change (like a new mobo) if it has been 180 days since your last activation. Otherwise I'm pretty sure you can call Microsoft and tell them that your mobo died or whatever and they will give you the key to activate. I think that's how it works, I might be wrong though. What I am pretty sure of is the OEM and retail version work the same way. Retail version just includes a manual, fancy packaging, and telephone support (who needs them when you got us right?)

[Unperson]

Originally Posted by blue60007 Retail version just includes a manual, fancy packaging, and telephone support (who needs them when you got us right?)

Heh. Exactly!

Well, folks, unless someone sees something problematic with this, here's what I'm planning to order:

Motherboard: ASUS A8N-E Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 3500+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3500BPBOX - Retail

GPU: AOpen 7800GTX-DV256 Geforce 7800GTX 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail

RAM: CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model VS1GB400C3 - Retail (two modules for a total of 2 GB Ram)

PSU: XCLIO XClio 450BL ATX 450W Power Supply - Retail

HDD: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

FDD: SAMSUNG Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Windows 98SE/ ME/ 2000/ XP - OEM

DVD burner: LG Black IDE DVD Burner Model GSA-4167B BK - OEM

Case: ASPIRE X-Plorer ATXB8KLW-BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

As you can see it's almost exactly what bitTRL1000 suggested on Friday. All this, plus shipping, XP and a few accessories, comes out to about $1450 (not including a $30 rebate on the vid card ). So I'm spending what I wanted and hopefully getting something that I'll enjoy. I just hope I don't bungle the assembly!

[bitTRL1000]

It's freaky. You even picked the exact same case that I have, even though I never told you what case I got. I have the 7800 GT, AMD 3000+, and a different optical and hard drive. I think you'll be very happy with your new PC.

[blue60007]

Everyone have problems with AOpen cards? I'm sure they are fine, just want to double check that. (And it has a rebate so...)

[Tin]

AOpen makes some nice cards...very overclockable too .

[Unperson]

Originally Posted by bitTRL1000 It's freaky. You even picked the exact same case that I have, even though I never told you what case I got. I have the 7800 GT, AMD 3000+, and a different optical and hard drive. I think you'll be very happy with your new PC.

That is bizarre. I just thought it looked pretty cool and was a decent price. What are the odds that I'd pick the same one?

Do you have the same PSU that I'm getting? The reason I ask is because a few of the comments I read at NewEgg were from people who had trouble fitting their power supplies in this case properly.

[bitTRL1000]

Yes, I recommended the Xclio to you because I have it and really like it. It's got a thin rubber coating on the outside that looks and feels cool and that supposedly helps reduce vibration. I too was worried that it would interfere with the top-mount fan in the case, but it is short enough to fit in there with no problems.

[Unperson]

Originally Posted by bitTRL1000 Yes, I recommended the Xclio to you because I have it and really like it. It's got a thin rubber coating on the outside that looks and feels cool and that supposedly helps reduce vibration. I too was worried that it would interfere with the top-mount fan in the case, but it is short enough to fit in there with no problems.

Sounds great!

Well, I've finally placed the order. As long as newegg.com fills the order correctly, UPS doesn't destroy it in transit and I don't fry it with static electricity and ineptitude, I should have this thing up and running over the weekend. Once again I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. I really appreciate how helpful you've all been. I've learned some things, stayed within my budget and I'm getting what I want. Can't really ask for much more than that.

I'm sure I'll probably have a few questions about assembly once I have all the stuff in front of me, but I know I'll be able to get whatever help I need here.

Thank you all.

[jfk]

Should be a very nice PC. Let us know how the build goes and when you get it up and running. We don't see enough "success" threads here.....

[blue60007]

Originally Posted by Tin AOpen makes some nice cards...very overclockable too .

It's agreed then

Good luck and let us know how it turns out. Too many people never return and tell us how their build turned out.

[Unperson]

Hello again, everyone.



EDIT: I've managed to get the heat sink installed. It just took a little more force than I was willing to use at first. However, I've run into a bit of difficulty with my FDD.

The FDD was OEM and so didn't come with anything. The cable that came with my motherboard has the pin 5 connector blocked out, but the drive has a pin 5, and no pin 3. Does anyone know if I will be able to get a cable that is compatible with both my motherboard and FDD?

It's just a little annoying becaue the FDD that I had initally selected was out of stock and this one came free in a combo with my HDD. I am going to open up the case on my current PC and see if I can use the FDD, its cable or both in my new build before I go out and spend money on something I'll probably not use much.

Also, I have a cable that came with my motherboard labelled "CD-ROM". The connection seems compatible, but will I be able to use this with my DVD drive? The pins are aligned properly, but I'm not sure if this cable can be used.

Thanks for any help.

EDIT AGAIN: I've been looking around the net and was wondering what are the advantages/disadvantages of an external FDD that uses a USB interface? They don't really seem much more expensive and I'll avoid the hassle of dealing with blocked out pins. It's strange, but most of the pics of FDD's that I've looked at have the same pin configuration as the one I got for this PC (i.e. they won't work with the cable that came with my motherboard). A couple have a row of 17 pins and then just a couple near the ends of the second row, but I've not seen any that would fit the cable that I have.