need advice for 2 upcoming builds

[stlSpilly]

In the next couple months i'm looking to attempt my first and second builds. We need to update our pc's and i'd like to salvage as much as possible in order to keep costs down since we're doing two. however, if that's not possible i'm willing to spend the jack. but if i can take from one to help upgrade the other that would work too. also i'd like to salvage the towers as well.
The first pc needs to accomplish the following:
internet
lots of photoediting, ie photoshop
general storage
crappy gaming like sims, etc

Here's the current info for that pc:
Dell 4100 Pentium 3 at 933 Mhz
128 mb ram at 133 Mhz
V90/56k modem
SB Live digital
32 mb nvidia tnt2 m64 apg
20.4 gb 7200 rpm ultra ata
12x max variable dvd rom
8x/4x/32x cd rom

I don't need any peripherals, os or monitor and am looking to spend no more than $300-$400.

ok build two will be used for:
current & future gaming
internet

and currently it has:
Gateway Performance 500 mid-tower
intel 500Mhz Pentium 3
128 mb memory
13.6gb 5400 rpm ultra ata
3dforce2 mx-64tv geforce2 mx400 w/ tv-out
6x dvd rom
4x/4x/24x ide cd rom
soundblaster audio pci 128
3com us robo 56k pci modem

again no need for peripherals, os, or monitor and looking to spend @ $600-$700 for #2. Also we'e got external 2wire dsl modem with wireless ability connected to the gateway right now and will likely just buy the stick to add to the dell for internet ability on both.

for the second build this is what i've worked out so far, all via newegg:
ASUS a8n-e socket 939 nvidia nforce4 Ultra ATX AMD $96.99
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice 1 GHz HT 512 kb L2 cache 939 $159.00
eVG geforce 6600gt 128 mb 128-bit gddr3 pci express x16 $135.00
Corsair Valueselect 1gb (2-512s) 184 pin ddr sdram $70.25
that comes to @460 so far...

So have your laughs.... i know they're old that's why they're changing. Any help would be much appreciated and thanks in advance. you guys do great work here.

[blue60007]

You could probably re-use the optical drives, and the board will have onboard sound... I would ditch the hard drives - the first one is just too small (a plus that it's 7200 rpm, but it's probalby only a 2mb cache), and the second one is small and slow. You might look around at your local Best Buy or wherever - a lot of times you can score a hard drive for very cheap after rebates (I've heard of folks getting a 200GB or more for like $10). Otherwise you can get a 80GB SATA drive for $50-$60 on Newegg.


You will need an OS unless you have un-used copies. Win XP Home OEM is about $90. That build you've got their looks good, as for the case/power supply, the Antec Sonata II (and 450W power supply) should do the trick - it's a quality case with a quality power supply.

[glc]

I don't see many reusable components in either system. I'd budget for 2 complete builds. You are better off keeping the old systems intact for less demanding use elsewhere. You will not be able to reuse either case - the Dell power supply is proprietary and the Gateway power supply is unsuitable for any new motherboard.

[stlSpilly]

Thinking about Thermaltake TR2 W0070 430W Power Supply for both. I'll buy a case seperate as a case is a case is a case, any decent atx mid will do. Also i'm considering using the optical drives we have for the photo editing computer and buying a dvdr for the gaming. Can i get some opinions and is there anything else you would reccomend?

[jayb1234]

That Thermaltake is not suitable, it only has 18A on a single 12V rail.

This would be a better choice, or an Antec or Enermax with dual rails.

For the dvd burner take a look at the Liteons, they are pretty good and come with the burning software, several also have Lightscribe.

[stlSpilly]

yes i've only heard good things about the liteons and i'll be using them for sure. regarding the psu, do i need 400+ for the photoediting. can i get something smaller there and then maybe buck up to something like Rosewill RP550-2 ATX 2.01 550W Power Supply for gaming?

[glc]

I have a problem with Rosewill power supply quality. The wattage needs to be determined primarily with the video card you choose. If you use a low end non-gaming card like a Radeon X550, a 350 watt unit is plenty. Whatever you choose, you cannot go wrong with brands such as Antec, Enermax, and Fortron/Sparkle (FSP/SPI).

[stlSpilly]

sorry for my ignorance....???18A on a single 12V rail??? could you explain....

And what about the psu for the photoedit pc? can i get a 400w psu and spend a little more on the gaming pc psu? or can you recommend a case/psu that would fit in the 60-90 dollar range? i thought i could maybe get a better system if i bought the psu seperate and just had an adequate case for now. no plans to overclock, just looking for a solid bargain.

EDIT: right now my plans for the gaming pc vid card:
eVG geforce 6600gt 128 mb 128-bit gddr3 pci express x16 $135.00

[glc]

You can't go wrong with an Antec Sonata II case for either build - it has a high quality 450 watt ATX 2.0 power supply in it. It's a bit more than your budget but it's rock solid.

[stlSpilly]

Could someone pease explain the ....???18A on a single 12V rail???
also give a recc for hard drive?
right now this is what i've got put togetherfor the gaming rig:

Antec Sonata II w/ 450w psu $100.00
ASUS a8n-e socket 939 nvidia nforce4 Ultra ATX AMD $97.00
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice 1 GHz HT 512 kb L2 cache 939 $148.00
eVG geforce 6600gt 128 mb 128-bit gddr3 pci express x16 $135.00
Corsair Valueselect 1gb (2-512s) 184 pin ddr sdram $69.00
LITE-ON Black ATAPI/E-IDE DVD Burner SHW-160P6S - Retail $42.00

any suggestions??

[glc]

I'd personally drop the motherboard to a A8N5X and up the processor to a 3200+.

Power supplies provide several voltages. +12v is heavily used with PCI-Express. 18 amps total is too low for high performance PCI-E video cards *and* the CPU requirements. More and more power supplies now have dual 12 volt rails - with each one putting out 18 amps or so. There are single rail units that put out over 30 amps on the 12 volt rail, but they cost more than a mainstream dual rail unit. A single rail 18 amp unit is designed for AGP boards.

I'd recommend either a WD or Seagate SATA drive, capacity as desired.

[stlSpilly]

ok as far as the gaming rig goes, i need some opinions on sound cards. other than that it looks like this:

Antec SONATA II $91.99
ASUS A8N5X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX $83.99
eVGA Geforce 6600GT 128MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 $135.00
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz HT Socket 939 $166.00
CORSAIR ValueSelect (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR 400 (PC 3200) $69.99
Western Digital Caviar SE16 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb $96.99
LITE-ON Black ATAPI/E-IDE DVD Burner $41.99
total: 685.00 plus a sound card

Can you help a brother out and let me know what you think about my first build? I'll add on a new monitor in a month or so since i went a little over budget on this one. but i really do appreciate any suggestions or pointing out any oversights i may have missed. thanks again.

[stlSpilly]

think i've got it narrowed down to 2 sounds cards. don't have the sratch for x-fi so i've come up with this:

Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SB0232 5.1 Channels PCI $60.00
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS SB0350 7.1 Channels PCI $75.00

i've only had onboard in the past. is there a huge difference? i figure for $15 why not get the 7.1? what do you think?

[blue60007]

Honestly, I would wait and possibly save up the money for the X-Fi (assuming you have a good set of speakers). There may not be a whole lot of difference between those and the onboard sound. Out of either one, I would choose the Audigy2 ZS. The X-Fi's only $40 or so more, so you might want to wait until you have the money. I saw a pretty big boost from an older Audigy to the X-Fi, and another memeber here said he noticed pretty good difference between the Audigy2 ZS and the X-Fi. Now, you do have to have a nice set of speakers or headphones to really notice the improvement - I've got a really nice headphones so the difference sticks out, however I doubt I'd notice any difference with a $5 pair. Same thing goes for speakers.

[BrokenKingdom]

The on board should be plenty good enough unless you are used to high quality sounds or are planning on useing your computer for frequent movies watching.

The 7.1 refers to the number of speakers allowed for in surround sound. IE: 5.1 is two front speakers, two back speakers, a center speaker, and a sub woofer (the five speakers are the 5 and the subwoofer is the .1) So a 6.1 system would have 6 speakers and a subwoofer the 7.1 would have 7 speakers and a subwoofer.

As mentioned above if you buy a good pair of noise reduction headphones instead of paying for the seperate sound card you will get a great sound from your on board sound. That and you have the benifit of using those headphones for other things. Also you won't have to sacrifice sound if you play late at night in fear of wakeing siblings up with loud explosions

I myself would buy the better sound card because I'm a musicain. But unless you are using sound intensive programs then you should do just fine with the onboard

[glc]

I always recommend trying the onboard sound first - you can always buy a card later.

[stlSpilly]

ok so wait to save for the x-fi sound card and work with the onboard for now. any other final thoughts before i begin to purchase? again here's the setup as it stands now:

Antec SONATA II w/ 450w psu $91.99
ASUS A8N5X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX $83.99
eVGA Geforce 6600GT 128MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 $135.00
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz HT Socket 939 $166.00
CORSAIR ValueSelect (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR 400 (PC 3200) $69.99
Western Digital Caviar SE16 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb $96.99
LITE-ON Black ATAPI/E-IDE DVD Burner $41.99

all that for the low, low price of $685.
What do you think??

[glc]

Looks good to me.

[stlSpilly]

glc thanks for the help....
now that i've worked out the gaming rig, i was hoping to use that setup as a jumofff point for the second build. #2 will be used for internet and lots of photoediting/scrapbooking primarily in photoshop. i'm assuming that i won't need quite as much processor or ram. so what can i take down a notch to help the second build fit into a $400 price range? i don't need any optical drives as i've already purchased basic cd read and cd write drives as well as a basic floppy. also i have a 400w psu and atx mid tower ready for the other parts. what would you reccommend?

[glc]

Actually Photoshop will benefit from a truckload of ram. Exactly what model and type is the 400w power supply? Does it have a 20 or a 24 pin connector? What you will NOT need is a gaming grade video card, that's where you can save - you may even get by with onboard video.

[stlSpilly]

will i need to worry about any 3d with photoshop? i'm afraid of cutting back too much on the video card....

[stlSpilly]

as of now this is what i'm thinking about for the second rig:

ASUS A8N5X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD Mobo $76.99
ASUS Geforce 6600 128MB DDR PCI Expx16 Video Card $94.99
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ Venice 1GHz HT Socket 939 Proc $145.00
Western Digital Caviar SE 200GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s $91.00
Also i'm considering another sonata II w/ 450w since they just dropped $10.

i'm leaning toward the pci due to upgradability later, even though it may be a little more than we need right now. what do you think about these?

[glc]

You don't need a 6600, and I'd recommend ATI for that use - a $70 Radeon X550 will do a great job - in fact, a dirt cheap X300SE will actually be plenty as long as it isn't Hypermemory. There's no 3D in Photoshop. Spend the extra $$$ on a 3200+, Photoshop will like that.

Again, what's the PSU that you have waiting in the wings?

[stlSpilly]

Sorry i didn't mention the psu last post. its a FSP AX400-PN, 12cm FAN, version 2.0, 2 SATA, PCI Express, 400W. i figure for $40 you can't beat it.

so the build looks like this as of now:

ASUS A8N5X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD Mobo $76.99
Western Digital Caviar SE 200GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s $91.00
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz HT Socket 939 $159.00
ASUS Radeon X300SE 128MB DDR PCI Express x16 $46.99
CORSAIR ValueSelect (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 $66.99
FSP Group AX400-PN, 12cm FAN, 2.0, 2 SATA, PCI Express, 400W $40.99
total @$485.00
how's that look?

[glc]

That should do it fine.

[stlSpilly]

ok just to finalize before purchasing....

gaming rig:
Antec SONATA II Black Steel ATX Mid Case 450Watt SmartPower 2.0ATX 12V V2.0 for AMD & Intel $89.99
ASUS A8N5X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD Mobo $76.99
eVGA Geforce 6600GT 128MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Vid $135.00
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz HT Socket 939 Poc. $159.00
CORSAIR ValueSelect (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 $66.90
Western Digital Caviar SE16 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s HDD $96.00
LITE-ON Black ATAPI/E-IDE 16X DVD±R DVD Burner $39.99
Total $664 + shipping

build #2:
ASUS Radeon X300SE 128MB DDR PCI Express x16 Video $46.99
FSP Group 12cm FAN, version 2.0, 2 SATA, PCI Express, 400W PSU $40.99
Western Digital Caviar SE16 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s HDD $96.00
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz HT Socket 939 Poc. $159.00
CORSAIR ValueSelect (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 $66.90
ASUS A8N5X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD Mobo $76.99
Total $486 + shipping

I'll be ordering from newegg this weekend if you could let me know if everything looks ok...

[glc]

Looks good to me.