compatibility with win x64, and many other questions

[flameshad0w]

Hello, I'm planning to build a pc sometime in early May or so, but I've started looking at parts, since I'm assuming they won't change too much over two months. I want to make sure the PC can run almost all games currently released, and games that will be released in the future for a while, on high graphics, with AA and AF.

I've picked the following parts so far:
Motherboard:
BIOSTAR TForce4U Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

Processor:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Toledo 1GHz HT Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA4800CDBOX - Retail

RAM:
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model VS1GB400C3 - Retail

O/S:
Microsoft Windows XP Professional X64 Edition Single Pack - OEM

I'm having several issues.
The first one is about the harddrive. I'm was thinking of getting a

Western Digital Caviar SE WD2500JS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
which has 8mb cache, but noticed that there is a
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
with 16mb cache. It appears to be exactly the same, except with twice the cache, and only one dollar more. However, it also has some reviews that say it stopped working randomly. So I'm not sure which is better. The second one seems better, but has a lot of reviews saying it stops working (although many say it works well, too).

Secondly, I'm unsure about what DVD Burner to get. I'm confused about the port they use to connect to the motherboard. For some reason, almost all of the ones I've found seem to use a port called IDE, however, as far as I can tell, my motherboard, nor any other that I've seen actually has an IDE port. They just have SATA, SATA II, and ATA/100. Also, I couldn't find a DVD burner that's compatible with Windows XP Pro x64.

Thirdly, I noticed that it says on the northern bridge of my motherboard is a NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra. What is this? I'm pretty sure the motherboard doesn't come with a graphics card, and nForce doesn't appear to be a graphics card either... Also, if whatever this is is made by Nvidia, would an ATI graphics card still be compatible?

Fourthly, I could use suggestions for a graphics card. I want something that can run games great, in a price range of about $400 or less. I'm uncertain whether to go for Nvidia or ATI, and which model. Another related question I have is, why haven't I been able to find any cards specifically made by Nvidia on Newegg? It has Geforce cards made by other companies, but none by Nvidia itself. I don't really want a graphics card made by a company other than ATI or Nvidia.

Lastly, I just want to know if I chose the right parts so far. Are they all compatible? And uh I just thought up another question... Why do some parts say OEM after them while others say Retail?

Thanks in advance to anyone who answers any of my questions.

[freakitchen]

BIOSTAR TForce4U Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

Biostar, although of decent quality, falls outside the top tier of motherboards. For a high end gaming system as yours is, I'd definitely consider an ASUS board, something like the A8N-E / A8N-SLI.

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

Definitely go for the 16MB Cache drive. They offer a speed increase over the standard 8MB cache drives and is certainly worth it for $1. Western Digital are a good manufacturer...you should take newegg reviews with a pinch of salt. Those likely to post a review are those with failing products, and there will always be DOA drives.

Secondly, I'm unsure about what DVD Burner to get.

The vast majority of burners are still IDE, and you will have at least one IDE channel on your motherboard. Lite-on drives are great quality, and come with Nero. NEC drives are also good, but most don't come with software. Plextor is top dog if you have cash to burn.

Thirdly, I noticed that it says on the northern bridge of my motherboard is a NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra. What is this?

This is your board's Chipset. Nvidia is the manufacturer, though It has nothing to do with graphics. Nforce4 is currently the best chipset for an AMD build, so no worries there.

Fourthly, I could use suggestions for a graphics card.

Someone else could probably advise better than me here. Whether to go ATI or Nvidia is a matter of personal preference in many ways. Regarding your question on the manufacturers, both ATI & Nvidia allow other companies to produce graphics cards using their technology rather than directly manufacturing them. Most of these companies are perfectly reputable, but eVGA for Nvidia, and Sapphire for ATI are probably the most popular and highest quality.

Lastly, I just want to know if I chose the right parts so far. Are they all compatible? And uh I just thought up another question... Why do some parts say OEM after them while others say Retail?

As mentioned, I'd rather see an ASUS board in the list, but your processor and RAM selections are good. However, I would not personally use Windows 64-bit at the moment, still too many bugs and lack of driver support across the board (though this is slowly improving). You might have issues with software too.

Depending on what games you play, you might consider upping the RAM to 2GB, some are beginning to require this amount for the top graphical settings. It would seem a better balance with that high-end processor, too.

I also notice you don't have a power supply listed. This is one of the most important parts of your system, and you want to make the right choice. Check out the Power Supply reference thread, stickied at the top of the general hardware forum, for the best brands. I would consider 500w for that build, depending on the Graphics card you choose.

OEM = Original Equipment Manufacturer. Basically these products are supplied in bulk packaging, often with no cables or a manual. It's fine to go OEM with products such as your Hard Drive and Optical drives, since all the cables you need will be supplied with your motherboard.

Hope that was somewhat useful, and mostly correct!

FK

[Alaron]

Welcome to PCMechanic. Let me try to answer some of your questions.

Either hard drive will work well, though I would choose the one with a 16MB cache. The larger cache improves performance. And take reviews with a grain of salt, there are problems with everything once in a while.

For a burner, take a look at Pioneer, NEC, LiteOn. They will all connect to the motheboard. IDE is just the name of the connection for ATA/100.

nForce is a type of chipset. Chipsets control how information is routed around the motherboard, they are like a control tower of sorts for the computer interacting with the various parts. All motheboards have chipsets made by various companies. You can still use an ATI card in an nforce chipset, I have one right now.

Nvidia and ATI both make powerful cards, so you can't go wrong either way. The reason you don't see nvidia only cards is because nvidia simply creates the technology, they farm the actual manufacturing out to various companies. For $400 look at high end cards like the Geforce 7800 or the ATI X1900.

Your part selection so far is fine, except for the Biostar motherboard. They aren't the best quality. Switch it out for something like this Asus: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131530 for much better quality.

OEM stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer. OEM parts usually come with little or no accessories and are usually slightly cheaper then retail. However, definetly get a Retail CPU because it comes with a full 3yr warranty, instead of 30days.

Lastly, I would stick with plain ol' Windows XP Home instead of 64bit for now.

Hope that helps.

[flameshad0w]

Thanks for the help guys, but I've got another question now. If the X1900 has a TV Tuner, I'll be able to watch TV right? Should I get Windows Media Center Edition? Would that work better with it than Professional? I've decided to not get x64 yet since there's barely any support for it.

Also, once Windows Vista comes out, will it be a 64 bit O/S? Cause if it is, I'm thinking I can eventually upgrade to Vista a while after it comes out. Seems bad to just keep a non 64 bit O/S forever, since that won't take advantage of the processor... So if I wait for Vista to come out, and then once everyone makes more drivers for it and it's 64 bit, would it be good to upgrade to it then from a 32bit XP?

Oh and by the way, I think I'll get a
ASPIRE X-Navigator ATXA9NW-AL/500 Black/Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply - Retail

Is that enough fans? And that's all I need for a power supply, right?

[Alaron]

TV Tuner's do allow you to watch TV, but the card will come with software. You don't need Media Center Edition.

If you like that case, keep it, but ditch the power supply. Quality is much more important then quantity, so its not always about the wattage.
Put in something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103937

Vista will have a 64bit Edition.

[flameshad0w]

So uh, what would happen if I just used the power supply that came with the case? A power supply doesn't seem that important, couldn't I just use the one they had until it broke, and then get a new one? Cause it's sort of a lot to spend $64 more, especially since I'm already almost past $1700, and I can't really go over...The reviews don't appear to mention anything really bad about the PSU either, and say it's good (I know they aren't necessarily right, but there are quite a lot of them, and I don't want to instantly spend $64 if I can use the existing PSU for as long as it'll work)...

[Alaron]

Simply put, if you take a chance on a poor power supply, you risk a blow out that could destroy other components. In the end, the $64 power supply could be much cheaper then a new computer. It really is important to use a good one.

[flameshad0w]

Hmm, I guess your right then. I think I'm going to get a 4400+ processor instead of a 4800+ one... I just checked and the only difference that I can see is 0.2Ghz, but a $172 price difference. That IS the only difference right? Is there really any reason to pay $172 more for a 4800+?

[glc]

I sure wouldn't spend $172 more. If you are gaming, that $172 would get you a lot better mileage with a stronger video card.

Buy your ram in matched pairs - don't use single modules.

[flameshad0w]

If I bought two sticks of 512MB, then I wouldn't have space to eventually upgrade to all four gigs. Why's it better to buy it in pairs?

Also, I'm actually thinking about getting a XION Ultimate Engineering XON-002 Black/Silver SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450 Watt (P4 & AMD Ready) Power Supply - Retail
If it comes with a 450 Watt PSU, would I be able to take that out and replace it with the 500 Watt PSU that Alaron suggested? And are the two fans enough? And if they aren't, would I be able to install more?

[glc]

If you do not use matched pairs of ram, it will only run in single channel mode, which is a performance hit. Why don't you get a 2 gig kit now with the processor savings?

Yes, you can replace any ATX power supply with any other ATX power supply.

[flameshad0w]

Uh, doesn't DDR SDRAM prevent this within itself? Isn't that why it's called double data rate?

Also, if I do get 2GB of ram, can I just buy 2 of the ram I already chose, or do I have to buy one of those packs of 2, because if I just buy 2 of the ram I chose it's cheaper...

[jayb1234]

DDR is related to the speed of the RAM.

Dual channel is related to the way the modules work together.

For dual channel, the modules need to match each other.

With a kit you will know that all the specs of the two modules are the same.

While 2 of the same module (not a kit) will probably work together, there is a possibility that there will be some diffference in the two modules that will keep them from working together (different brand of chips would be one possible cause).

[flameshad0w]

I'm not talking about different manufacturers. I mean like, the exact same ram, the one I posted in my first post, but just buying it twice. Both would be the exact same model by Corsair.

Somehow the price of my pc is really high now, does anyone see any way to make it cheaper without much of a performance decrease?

[freakitchen]

Somehow the price of my pc is really high now, does anyone see any way to make it cheaper without much of a performance decrease?

Can you post your revised parts list since you initially posted to make this easier? Thanks

FK

[flameshad0w]

Motherboard:
ASUS A8N-E ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

Processor:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+

PSU:
Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-500 500W Power Supply - Retail

Graphics Card:
ATI Radeon All-In-Wonder X1900 256MB

RAM:
I've got a question about this. Should I buy 2
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model VS1GB400C3 - Retail for $146.50

or 1
CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model TWINX2048-3200 - Retail for $179.00

Is there any reason to pay $30 more for the pair? Would just buying two of the first one not let Dual Channel work?

HD:
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

DVD Burner:
ASUS Black E-IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner With 5X DVD-RAM Write Model DRW-1608P2S BK - OEM

O/S:
Microsoft Windows XP Professional

Case: I'm trying to decide between
ASPIRE X-Plorer ATXB8KLW-BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
and
XION Ultimate Engineering XON-002 Black/Silver SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450 Watt (P4 & AMD Ready) Power Supply - Retail

Both cost about the same. Even if I did get the Xion I would still use the PSU suggested by Alaron. The good thing about the XION is the front audio port, but then the Aspire still does have USB ports, so the audio port is really the only thing it's missing. Plus the Aspire seems to be cooled better by the fans judging from the reviews, and has a nice LCD screen on it to show the temperature.

I'm thinking of going with the Aspire for now, since I won't need to use headphones too often, and since I'll eventualy buy a headset that plugs into the USB. Anyone got any reason to get the Xion instead? Or do you guys agree about getting the Aspire?

Oh and thanks for all the help guys. I'm almost done with all the parts I think. These are my last questions as far as I can tell. At least until I start building it...

[glc]

Can't you find a 2x1gb kit of value select?

[flameshad0w]

Yeah, there is one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustRa...82E16820145579

People seem to have a lot of trouble with it though... I should just get the 2GB kit that I posted right?

Oh, and I got another question..yet again. Is there any reason I should buy Windows Professional instead of Windows Home Edition? So far I've got a pc with home edition and a pc with media center edition in my house, and I haven't seen much of a difference between these two, so is there really something better about pro? Oh, and by the way, I did manage to get the Home Edition connected to the network, so there don't appear to be any network problems with it...

[freakitchen]

I wouldn't pay much attention to Newegg reviews. Corsair memory is reliable across the board, and by getting the 2x1GB kit, you guarentee yourself a tested matched pair.

There's really no reason to get XP Pro, unless you require the advanced networking features it offers. For a home network, XP Home is perfectly capable.

FK

[flameshad0w]

Hey uh, I was looking at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/h...choosing2.mspx

and it said that Pro has
"Scalable processor support – up to two-way multi-processor support."
Does this in any way relate to dual core processors? Or do I have nothing to worry about..

[glc]

XP Pro supports both dual core processors - and dual processors.

[flameshad0w]

No, I mean I know Pro supports dual cores, but does that mean that Home Edition DOESN'T support them?

[glc]

Home supports dual CORE but not dual PROCESSORS.