Help with Another Gaming Build

[0o0o0]

This will be my first build and I'm glad I found this site. I think I've read just enough of the posts to make a fool out of myself I have made a wish list over at Newegg as that seems to work for putting a list up that everybody can flame. The problem is I haven't figured out how to make it show up on the public list. I have shared it so maybe it just takes them a while to put it up on the list. If not somebody fill me in on how to do that.

Meanwhile I will go ahead and list what I want and what I got so far. Keep in mind the most hardware work I've done with a computer is install a burner or change out the ram. But I am a do it yourselfer and I'll try and catch on quick.

I would like to build a gaming computer that will play any game out today on highest graphics settings without blinking or burping. Also it should be able to handle home video editing well so I can make quality DVDs from my digital video camera (I've heard fire wire is the way to go??). I want it to be a stable system with high end technology that I can update but won't have to for at least a couple of years. I would like to be able to run games and programs that will be out in a couple of years without building a whole new rig. I'm not being unreasonable am I? Isn't this what everybody wants? Oh yeah and I want it all for under 100 bucks. . . .

just kidding

My budget is 1500ish.

So what I did was go to newegg and throw in enough parts to make 2 or 3 computers and I started adding em up to come out with around 1500. I really like the one that came out around 1800 and if you nice folks think thats all worth it I could probably swing it.

So heres the list

Cases:

http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16811170027

http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16811196022

I picked the kingwin because it has 2 120mm fans which I've heard are quiter and move more air???? The other ones just pretty sweet, but I'm not taking it to a fashion show. Should my case have a fire wire port or does that go with the mobo - Clueless about that.

PSU:
Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-500 ATX12V 500W Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16817103937
for a solid psu - maybe higher wattage maybe not??

or this one
Antec NeoHE 500 ATX12V 500W Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16817103940
which has the PFC in it. Does this save me money if I leave it on all the time or is it safer or whats the deal with PFC and is it worth 35 bucks more?
Mobo:

ASUS A8N-SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16813131524

ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce SPP 100 ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16813131568

It seems most folks here like the ASUS. I think I want the Nforce4 (right?) as it goes best with the AMD??? and I want an SLI so I can buy one top-o'-the line GPU now and then the same one later when I need it for cheap. . . The 939 socket seems to be the latest and greatest but I have no idea why. Could someone fill me in on th $100 difference in these to mobos?

Processor:

Ok I need to decide dual core or not. I read that games now don't use dual core so for a gaming rig go with a regular processor and put the money on a vid card.

I could probably swing this one


AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego 1GHz HT Socket 939 Processor Model ADA4000BNBOX
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16819103529
and still get a high end GPU.

But someone said this one
AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 1GHz HT Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3700BNBOX
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16819103539
was the "sweet spot" between price and performance. In which case I would like to know the $4 difference between it and this one

AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 1GHz HT Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3700CFBOX
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16819103622

Couple of other questions about the processor. . .

What is the M2 (different socket??) and should I wait til it comes out and get a diff mobo and what not or is that just silly? And will it be worth it and have all the bugs worked out and all that good stuff.

Also whats the difference between 90nm process type and 65nm?

And finally whats the "clawhammer" and why does it run on a different process type = .13 micrometers?

Stop me if I'm going to fast . . . The questions just keep bubbling up.

Vid Card:

Tons of questions here . . .

I think I understand that if I want SLI I need geforce (cause crossfire is bad??) and If I need geforce I want eVGA to make it. I'm also assuming I need a PCI-E card and I want GDDR2. so I picked these out.
256 mb 7800 GT or GTX
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16814130237
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16814130256
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16814130277

This gets tricky for me. Apparently the 7800 GTX is worth 500 bucks cause people are paying that much for it. and it has 24 pixelpipelines (whats a pixelpipeline??? ) which seems to be a major factor in the price difference of the three above. However the x1900xt
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127206
has twice the memory of the 7800 GTX and higher clock speeds but costs the same. How come?? I realize that if the ati one is the way to go for the best graphics then I must change my mobo and can't use SLI and maybe other stuff I don't know about. Also can you use a mother board that allows for another X1900XT down the road when I need it to play half life 3 or 4?

Also that last Geforce vid card comes with a free mobo while supplies last which sounds like a good deal . . but it supports Athlon 64 FX/Athlon 64/Sempron but not X2. So I'm wondering if I want to upgrade to dual core later using that mobo will I be able to? Comments on that??
Also that vid card only has 20 pipelinepixels not 24 - when I want to slap another one in there in a couple of years when they are super cheap will I be wishing I could add the 24 pp one instead of another 20??


Ok - Hard Disk:

I think this is pretty straight foward from what I've heard here.

Western Digital Raptor WD740GD 74GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16822144160

along with

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16822144701

and If I have money to blow

Western Digital Raptor WD1500ADFD 150GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16822136012

RAM:

Also there seems to be a consensus here of this one

CORSAIR ValueSelect 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model VS2GBKIT400C3
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16820145579

if I want 2 gigs. However the comments frequently say that they get bad sticks (so send em back???) but I dont' know if that matters. But In case it did i picked out this one as well


Kingston ValueRAM 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model KVR400X64C3AK2/2G
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16820141308
I have kingston in my old computer and its treated me well.
Don't know wether or not this ram works with my mobo but I'm guessing it does (DDR 400 PC 3200)????

Finally DVD burner - which I guess won't make or break this deal. . .

both lite on burners one with lightscribe
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16827106010
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16827106023

So I've heard the Lite on is good as well as NEC. I have NEC in my laptop which I know isn't the same thing but Its loud and screws up a lot so I'm leaning towards teh lite on (correct me if I'm wrong)

Also I don't know what lightscribe is but I want latest and greatest right?? what does it do and is it worth $15 extra?

I think I'll get windows 32 bit if that is the consensus; I've read that 64 bit right now has too many hiccups and not enough compatiblity to be worth it????


I guess that about wraps it up. If we need to break this up into multiple stupid questions instead of one massive post we can take it piece by piece.
But I've got the cash burning a hole in my pocket ready to order this puppy. So LETS GET IT ON!!!!

thanks for the help.

[jfk]

Get the 3700+, best value in a 64 single core. I wouldn't wait for the M2, that will be coming this year sometime, but the 939 will be supported for quite some time. If you always wait for the latest and greatest you'll never build.

Of the PSU's you selected, the first is ATX 2.0, which you need, the other isn't. The first would be more appropriate, BUT, if you want to go SLI, you will need a different one altogether. Antec makes a 550 watt SLI certified PSU, if you decide to go SLI.

As far as the video card, if you go SLI, the 7800GTX is a fine choice. You might want to wait a few days, the 7900 series is due out in the next week and a half. Supposed to be better, but no one knows how much. If you don't go SLI, the X1900XT or XTX are currently the performance champion. For about the same money, a X1900XT will SMOKE a 7800GTX. You can also use Crossfire (ATI's dual card solution), but you would need a Crossfire board. They are available from ASUS, DFI, MSI and one or two others. Crossfire is in it's infancy, I would wait a little while to get a Crossfire board. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of dual cards (dual expense) and prefer one good card. You can use NVIDIA cards in ATI boards and vice versa. Additionally, as far as mobos are concerned, if they support AMD64, 64FX, etc., they support the X2 CPU's. Generally it is a simple BIOS flash to update them to allow dual core CPU's.

Get the Corsair value select. Several folks here who build a lot of machines say Kingston has some quality problems. I'll take them for their word on that. I've never had a problem with Corsair (or OCZ, Geil, Mushkin etc.).

[jayb1234]

About the RAM, run it through a configurator to be sure you order a compatible part number.

OS: This is what to get unless you want some specific feature of XP Pro or Media Center Edition.

Lightscribe burns a label onto your disks.

This is the SLI Antec PSU jfk mentioned.

A floppy drive or floppy/card reader combo would be a good idea. You might need the floppy during setup or later to install drivers, diagnostics, system recovery etc..

[FasterThanSatan]

i have a kinda similar questions like his. i didn't want to start another thread for this so i figured whoever helps him will be able to help me...

just to let you know, i'm also gonna build a gaming pc... same like his & it's my first time so bear with the ignorance. there are things that are troubling me... the compatabilty. i've been researching on the parts that i am going to buy. first of all for a video card... the ATI RADEON X1900 512 mb PCI EXPRESS CARD. then i found out that not all Mobo can support this. you have to have a PCIx16 slot. so i looked for one. an Asus P5WD2 Premium. then the processor. this is where i got stuck. it says it supports an Intel LGA775 Pentium 4 CPU. i researched on it and it turns out there are different types or kinds of LGA775... or are they all the same? this is where i found the processor stuff:
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/...-platform.html
it says that there is a Prescott and a Gallatin. what the hell is that? i'm just confused... please help...

also... it would be very much appreciated if you can help me with the hardware... compatability wise... here is the link of the MoBo that i found:
http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1...93&modelmenu=1
thanks guys in advance!!! =)

[Alaron]

__Mod Note__

FasterThanSatan, please start your own thread so we can follow the discussions more easily.

[FasterThanSatan]

oooops... sorry... ok i will... disregard my post then...

[0o0o0]

Thanks for the replies.

Ok so crossfire is new - mobos still have bugs. But the X1900XTX will outpreform the Geforce 7800GTX (which makes sense with twice as much memory and higher memory speed).

If I got a crossfire board now with one x1900xtx and didn't use the crossfire option; waited til some new bios came out that were more stable would I run into problems? Do bios help out like that? Or should I DEFINITELY avoid the crossfire mobo alltogether. I have to say I really like the idea of a year or two down the road adding another x1900xtx when its alot cheaper and almost doubling my power.
And what are those pixelpipelines??? the GTX has 24 of them while the XTX doesn't come with more than 16.

I now have this power supply picked out
Antec trupower 2.0
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16817103932
which is SLI and crossfire certified (I think!)

If I go with the xtx card instead of the GTX then I'm guessing the ASUS card with an ASUS mobo would be the way to go

ASUS A8R-MVP Socket 939 ATI Radeon XPRESS 200 CrossFire ATX AMD CrossFire Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16813131584

ASUS Extreme AX1900XTX/2DHTV Radeon X1900XTX 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 CrossFire Ready Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16814121553

Lightscribe sounds a little like a gimmick right now - seems like you would pay way too much for the cds adn dvds just to avoid the sharpie. Anybody have it and can't live without it?

[0o0o0]

So after reading this article

http://forum.pcmech.com/showpost.php...90&postcount=4

provided by jfk in another post . . .

I'm wondering where to go with my GPU. Is there any solid data out there that says the x1900xtx outpreforms the 7800GTX hands down? Has anyone used both? I'm almost buying most of that article and thinking that buying one graphics card and later updating to another new one is the way to go. Thoughts?

MOD EDIT: I edited your link, the previous one was dead.

[jfk]

Look at Tom's Hardware, AnandTech, HardOCP, etc. etc. They ALL have reviews that show the X1900XTX is THE top performing video card available. It beats BOTH the 7800GTX series quite handily. Now, there is also the X1900XT, which easily beats the 7800GTX 256 in benchmarks and equals or exceeds the 7800GTX 512 in benchmarks. The 512 wins a couple OpenGL titles (no surprise for an NVIDIA card) but otherwise loses out. The difference is that both the X1900 cards are widely available, unlike the vaporware 7800GTX 512, and significantly less money. The 7800GTX 512 is a great card, but try finding it....ANYWHERE.

To give you an idea how much I think of the X1900 series, ESPECIALLY the X1900XT, I just put one in my rig today. With that said, just to avoid any thoughts of being a fanboy, go look at all my posts on this forum. I probably recommend NVIDIA at LEAST 50% more than ATI. I think NVIDIA has done an excellent job with ALL their cards, but most particularly getting high quality cards into the mid-range sector at a price that is difficult to beat.

[0o0o0]

Thanks JFK. I guess my next question would be is the XTX worth $100 more than the XT? From what I can tell you are buying 100 more MHz of memory clock. How much performance boost is that over the XT?

Also what brand should I buy? ASUS or the cheaper one like Saphire?

And should I ditch the crossfire board and just get a single GPU board?

[jfk]

The $100 difference wasn't worth it to me. You can probably OC the XT card to XTX levels and save the $100. Brand isn't a huge deal, as ATI has strict manufacturing guidelines for its partners. I've had good luck with ATI, Saphire, ASUS and Powercolor. Other good ones are MSI, VisionTek and Connect3D (and I'm sure I've missed some).

I went Powercolor this time because, along with VisionTek, they offer a lifetime warranty on their retail cards.

My personal philosophy on dual card solutions is either get them both immediately, or stick with a single card. I don't really buy into the "buy the second down the road when cheaper" philosophy, as by that time I can sell my current single card, add $1-200 and get a top of the line of the next generation that will beat the dual cards from the previous generation. JMO.

[Engagechad]

Don't forget to take shipping costs into consideration.. My recent order from NewEgg cost me over 50 dollars in shipping...that sucked

[0o0o0]

Awesome - thanks.

So I've got the GPU narrowed down to the X1900XT (overclocked - will I need aftermarket heatsink and fans for that?)
The powercolor
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16814131005
should I get Retail or OEM?

and I need a mobo to fit with that and the rest of the system. I'm thinking this sapphire might work but not sure.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813154006

I'm guessing it just needs a north bridge that says radeon express 200?? Thats the closest I could find at newegg. I still don't understand the southbridge northbridge stuff very well. There were a couple of jetway mobos that were cheaper as well. What do you guys think?

engagechad - I feel you there. I've been checking out pricewatch.com and lots of the offers listed over there come out cheaper than newegg with the free shipping.

[jayb1234]

Crossfire motherboards at newegg, I would not trust the ECS, they don't have a very good reputation.

[jfk]

I "believe" that the PowerColor press release said ONLY the retail versions had the lifetime warranty. You could easily email them and ask, they were very fast with my request for information about voiding the warranty utilizing aftermarket cooling hardware (it doesn't).

[0o0o0]

ok maybe this mobo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131584

I would like to do some video editing (transfering from my digital video camera) so I need a mobo with firewire on it, right?
Can I do firewire with this mother board?

[boilermaker]

Yes the specs say that there is one 1394 (firewire) port.

[0o0o0]

Thanks boiler

So the A8R-MVP will handle a single x1900xt (overclocked), the A64 3700+ (overclocked), a couple of 1 gb sticks of corsair CL2 (if I decide to go with those over the VS), and has a firewire . . . and I can get it for under a hundred bucks. Does all that sound right?


What about the 3200 express

http://www.computerhq.com/ASUS_MOTHE...id-580962.html

overkill?

[Spearball]

I dont wanna hack this thread or anything but i just got a comment to make on a small post that got me thihnking. Some of u said that the newest ati card x1900xt will SMOKE a 7800gtx 512mb. Did you mean performace(speed) wise or VIDEO QUALITY wise?

[messiah34]

I don't know a lot about computers, but compared to you I would probably be considered a rocket scientist. I was in the same boat a couple months ago as i just built a computer for the first time. One mistake I believe every first time builder makes is that he jumps into head first without really knowing what he is doing. You dont' know what half this stuff means so how will you do when you go to build your comp? Will you know about jumpers? How to install mobo, how to prep case, mount drive. I think you might be in for a rude awakening and a major headache. Before I even thought about ordering my parts I went to several websites that gave some tips on building ( extremetech.com) go to the build it part and look at the ten things to not forget before building and whatever else interest you. Its fine that you ask question and people answer but unless you see a picture of what a jumper and ect actually look like inside the case it only tells you what it does and not how it works. I did about a month and a half research on the web, reading books and I still felt like i didnt' know enough at the time of build. Thats why I made sure i had a friend who had done it before and knew what he was doing in case i didn't. You would be suprised who u can find in ur area who would be willing to help. A book that i highly recommend is BUILDING A DREAM PC by maximum pc. It really helped me. you can probably find it online or at a local bookstore. Some of the info inside the book can be outdated but 80% of it is in use now and helpful

About the parts you picked out.
I got the first mobo you listed, the same HDD(hard drive), and the same graphics card you suggested, but it had lower clock speeds. I got the vidoe card for 350 bucks when its about 450 but i got the 4000 instead of the 3700 as a combo deal and it took a hundred bucks off the video card(sweet) and i run half life 2 at 93fps on 1600x1200. Its a good card. If you just go with a single video card i would like to suggest the antec sonata 2 as your case because it comes with a good power supply antec smartpower2.0 unless you want more power which is a consideration for the future if you want to add sound card and more hdd ect. it would just save some money and allow you to spend it somewhere else. Dual cores aren't the best in gaming now but will be in about a year or 2 but by then i dont' know how well the dual cores now will be. Also i think you might be exceeding 1500 bucks because i didnt' get a lot of stuff ur are getting and i paid 1300 bucks without operating system and you can add fans so i wouldn't really consider the whole fan thing being better.

[Alaron]

Messiah, you have PM

[0o0o0]

Thanks for the insight messiah. Its true . . . I wasn't born knowing how to build my first computer but thats why I am here, and about 15 other websites soaking it up like a wet sponge. I don't drop $1500 without doing my research. . . heck I don't even drop 20 bucks on a water hose without checking to see if consumer reports has it rated

Spearball - do you have either of the video cards? I haven't been able to find the 7800 GTX 512 adn I hear its pretty rare so I'm guessing it would be out of my price range. But I was looking at the GTX 256 mb first but I was kind of thinking that the X1900XT was better - but I don't know if its speed or video quality. . . I would prefer to get both. What card do you recommend?

[jayb1234]

Here is a link that has a list of reviews of the x1900xt. I looked at a few and they say that it is much better 7800gtx.

[0o0o0]

Awesome link Jayb! Unless some of those folks were payed off by ATI. . . I was leaning strongly towards ATI and I may have just fallen over on it.
You also mentioned the Crossfire mobos earlier - but I have heard that they have lots of glitches and what not. for the x19009xt or the xtx can I get a mobo that doesn't say radeon on it? for instance this lanparty
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813136152
looks like a good one if I want to steer clear of crossfire. It has the nforce4 which I understand works good with my processor choice . . .

Enlighten me

[Staren]

I did quite a bit of research on Crossfire, but most of what I know /is/ a couple months out of date. ATI is still getting the bugs worked out of Crossfire it seems. I would still consider it it at ver. 1.0, and anyone buying it is paying to do the final tests. It's just my openion, but if you are going with a card that powerful, I think you will be happy without a second card.

As for the DFI motherboard, a good choice I think. I have the SLI ver. of that board picked out for the upgrades I'm planning for my own gaming box.

[0o0o0]

Thanks steren - nice for someone else to do the leg work for you

anyways I'm only gonna go with one GPU and then as advised sell it for the next gen.

But in my noobish infancy for some reason I got it in my head that a radeon card needed a radeon mobo but I think thats WRONG!

so DFI makes qaulity mobos?
do they handle overclocking well?

[Staren]

It happens, you have both Radeon video cards and motherboards. You also have nVidia Geforce video cards, and nVidia nForce motherboards. It is pretty easy to make this stuff out to be harder then it really is. You have to learn so much, it's easy to over complicate. Clearing that kind of thing up is why a lot of us are here. First to get the help, then to hand around and give it when we can.

Here's the list of motherboard brands I like, and the ones I would have no problem going with.

ASUS
ABit
DFI
GigaByte
MSI

I would be a little extra carful, and do more research on anyone else. I'm not an overclocker, but ASUS, and DFI are two two names that seem to come up alot now days for overclocking.

[jfk]

Originally Posted by Spearball Some of u said that the newest ati card x1900xt will SMOKE a 7800gtx 512mb. Did you mean performace(speed) wise or VIDEO QUALITY wise?

Yes. The X1900XTX beats the 7800GTX 512 in BOTH performance AND video quality. Easily. The X1900XT ALSO beats the 7800GTX 512 in most benchies in performance AND quality. The benchies that is loses (VERY slightly) to the 512 are OpenGL games, as you might expect.

From a price/performance/availability standpoint, it's a no brainer that either of the X1900 cards are better than the 7800GTX 512. And both are superior to the 256 version.

[glc]

Using a DFI for a first build can be frustrating. They are the best out there for overclocking, but you pay for that ability with a lot of quirkiness. Abit used to be the overclocking king - and their boards were very quirky. Abit's chief engineer jumped ship to DFI - see where we are going here?

I'd probably recommend a plain old single slot Asus board for the stability - you can still overclock it if you desire. I like the plain vanilla A8N5X and A8N-E models. I don't really care for the Radeon chipset motherboards yet, if I *had* to build an AMD box, it would have a Nvidia chipset motherboard..

[0o0o0]

Thanks for the mobo tips glc. I'm gonna check those two out.

I just found this deal at buy.com

http://www.buy.com/prod/ati_radeon_x...9.html#moreimg

is that site a reputable place to buy? Also the ATI is one of the more expensive brands. Does anyone have experience with it?