Scrink's Voyage

[Scrink]

So you want to be a computer builder? I do..and I've never seen the inside of my computer other than upgrading the graphics card on the carpet in the belly of the beast with the......STATIC! dun dun dun.

Here is my goal...ultimate gaming machine for half the price of the big guys. went to alienware and plugged in all the goodies of what I want and the rig was $6000 not including speakers, monitor, keyboard, mouse, antivirus. So I did some research and found I could probably throw together something for about $3000 or less (with my wife's best buy discount). I have none of the parts for the project so far..so anything can be changed at this point and probably will be before I'm ready to buy, it's all on paper.

(thanks to whoever made that checklist too)

amd athlon 64 fx60
asus a8n-sli premium socket 939 nvidia nforce4 sli atx amd mobo
silverstone sst-st60f atx 600w psu
corsair xms 2gb (2 x 1gb) 184 pin ddr sdram ddr 400 (pc 3200)
2 - NEC ide dvd burner model nd-355oa - oem (not sure if this is compatible)
WD Raptor 150gb 10,000 rpm serial ata150 hard drive oem.
Dual bfg geforce 7800gtx 256mb gddr3 pci express x16
creative sound blaster x-fi xtreme music 7.1 channels pci interface sound card


a few questions now.

I don't have a floppy picked out...didn't plan on getting one till i read posts here. Now i think i should have one just in case...any suggestions?

I'm not set on a case yet..any reccomendations based on my internal plans?

Where does lan come in? its on the checklist of things to have on a prievious sticky. I thought it was on the motherboard. I have cable internet through a motorola surfboard modem do i need to ad this so called "LAN" to connect this thing?

What is the benifit of having dual graphics cards? I don't plan on running two monitors just one. If there is a boost to performance is it twice as much as a single card? I read a post saying the ati 1900xt or whatever is better than the geforce 7800gtx one on one. If there is no other benifit to dual graphics cards and I decide to go with an ati 1900xt or whatever it is will that card work with my current set up? (mobo, pcu ect..)

Looking forward to reading replies and changing my setup some more. Thanks for the input in advance.

[juppy]

Hi Scrink. Welcome to the Forums!

2 - NEC ide dvd burner model nd-355oa - oem (not sure if this is compatible)

Yes, that would be compatible with that motherboard. The mobo has 2 IDE connectors as well as the SATA connectors.

I don't have a floppy picked out...didn't plan on getting one till i read posts here. Now i think i should have one just in case...any suggestions?

Doesn't make much difference. Anymore a floppy drive is pretty much a floppy drive. They're all cheap to buy and are about the same quality.

I'm not set on a case yet..any reccomendations based on my internal plans?

I've always liked Antec cases because they're built really well and are nice and sturdy. I see alot of people wanting to go for an Aspire case because they have some neat designs and color schemes, but with those you usually need to get one without the power supply in it and buy a supply separately because the supplies that Aspire puts in them aren't that good. I saw you mentioned a Silverstone power supply in your list. I'm not even familiar with that brand so I can't say whether its good or bad. Maybe someone else knows.

Where does lan come in? its on the checklist of things to have on a prievious sticky. I thought it was on the motherboard. I have cable internet through a motorola surfboard modem do i need to ad this so called "LAN" to connect this thing?

That motherboard has a built-in LAN controller, so no, you shouldn't need an additional one. But yes, you will need it to hook your surfboard modem up to. Cable modems connect to the computer either by a LAN connection or by USB. Most people use the LAN. If the computer didn't have the LAN, then you'd need an add-on card for it, but with that mobo you're good to go.

What is the benifit of having dual graphics cards? I don't plan on running two monitors just one. If there is a boost to performance is it twice as much as a single card? I read a post saying the ati 1900xt or whatever is better than the geforce 7800gtx one on one. If there is no other benifit to dual graphics cards and I decide to go with an ati 1900xt or whatever it is will that card work with my current set up? (mobo, pcu ect..)

The dual graphics cards aren't for 2 monitors. It's a new configuration that's out now called SLI (that's if you use nVidia cards....for ATi, they call theirs Crossfire....same thing though basically). It puts two video cards in one system to increase the graphics performance. From what I've heard, as of right now it's not really worth the extra money to go with SLI (or Crossfire). There is an increase but unless it's changed recently, I've heard it's really not that much of an increase (at least not enough to warrant the extra $$$ for another card). Either one of those cards you listed would play most every game currently out there with just using a single card. Plus, with that mobo having SLI compatibility, if you decide down the road that you want more video power, you can always add another card in later.

[Scrink]

I will look into the antec case. do they come with a psu? The psu I listed I picked based on reviews at new egg that had enough juice to run sli, cause I read somewhere that sli needs more can't remember how much, but i want to say around 500w but thats probably wrong.

I will probably just go in for one graphics card then and probably wait for the geforce 7900 to come out and upgrade when they come down in price.

I was told and read in reviews that dual graphics was for dual monitors. And also told by an alienware tech that dual graphics cards were twice as powerful as just one. But I did not believe him for a second I just wanted to see his answer. I don't trust people who are trying to sell me something.

one last thing...is there any literature about pc building I can pick up that people here recommend? I've looked into a lot of things but the reviews almost always say that the books are dated and need to release new versions. this part of the whole process is the hardest for me so far.
thanks for the info juppy, much appriciated.

[glc]

The Silverstone you picked is a good power supply.

[Scrink]

Keeping my options open...with the mobo I've picked out
(asus a8n-sli premium socket 939 nvidia nforce4 sli atx) will that run a crossfire set up with two ati cards?

[jayb1234]

This ASUS board will. The a8n-sli premium will not.

939 Crossfire motherboards, I would not trust the ECS they don't have the best reputation.

[jfk]

Originally Posted by Scrink Keeping my options open...with the mobo I've picked out (asus a8n-sli premium socket 939 nvidia nforce4 sli atx) will that run a crossfire set up with two ati cards?

No. It will only run a SLI setup. You need a Crossfire mobo. Do a search on Newegg....ASUS, DFI and MSI have models, not sure about who else.

[juppy]

The previous posts here got me to thinking (dangerous, I know ) and now I've got a question relating to what Scrink asked. I know they put out Crossfire motherboards and SLI motherboards.....but what's the difference? I mean, what *IS* the difference as to why Crossfire cards won't work in an SLI board and vice versa? They're both PCI-E x16 slots, aren't they? So what's the difference, something in the control chip or what?

[jfk]

It's the Northbridge chips and the interfaces that differ and prevent (or at least make it difficult) to do what your asking.

[Scrink]

Ok here is what I hope is the finished product. but counting on the pro's here to point out compatiblity mistakes and such.

What I have for graphics cards are the bgf 7800gtx vrs the saphire x1900xtx
the question i have is..is the x1900xtx compatible with the rest of the system specs i picked out. If so Im going with the x1900xtx if not I will swing to the 7800gtx.

Next question before the list:
What is ps/2 when referring to mouse plugins? most choices were usb 2.0 or ps/2.

here is the link to my computer on paper (note I have two graphics cards listed and will remove one once the above questions are revealed):

https://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion...asp?ID=1928418

[blue60007]

Originally Posted by juppy I mean, what *IS* the difference as to why Crossfire cards won't work in an SLI board and vice versa? They're both PCI-E x16 slots, aren't they? So what's the difference, something in the control chip or what?

A single ATi (regular or CF edition) would work in an SLI board and vice versa, just not dual cards in the other system (SLI in a CF mobo, vice versa).

SLI and CF are very different in how they work, so the chipset would have to be different. Of course you'd have licensing problems - nVidia sure wouldn't want CF to work on their SLI mobos and vice versa. I believe the 975x chipset originally was supposed to support both CF and SLI, however Intel and nVidia I guess didn't agree on licensing terms and backed out. I believe the 975x does support CF.

Anyways, right now the X1900XTX trumps even the 7800GTX 512 (which was mainly vaporware - it never appeared in decent quantities) right now. Your link to your wish list isn't working so I'm not sure what motherboard you have picked out...personally I would just get a single PCI-E x16 slot board and go with the single X1900XTX - it'll play everything out there for quite some time...even if you went ahead and got a single one and a CF board, by the time you would want to add that second card, there will be something new out and you'll end up wanting one of them instead of another X1900XTX. (I hope that made sense )

PS/2 is the old round type of plug for mice/keyboards. USB works too, but if you get a USB mouse and it has a USB -> PS/2 adapter, use it. You can't use the PS/2 ports for anything else, so you might as well use them and keep another USB port free. PS/2 ports:
http://www.atmarkit.co.jp/fpc/cablec..._pc_side_l.jpg

[Scrink]

aspire x-superalien atxa6sw aluminum case. w/ 500w psu.
asus a8n-sli premium socket 939 nvidia nforce4 sli atx amd mobo
bfg 7800gtx or sapphire 100150 radeon x1900xtx (did not find either at best buy)
amd athlon 64 fx60
corsair xms 2gb (2 x 1gb) 184-pin ddr sdram ddr 400 (pc 3200)
WD Raptor 150gb 10000 serial ata150 hd
logitech lx300 wireless mouse and keyboard
samsung 19" monitor model number 930b
sony dru-820a dvd burner x2
creative sound blaster x-fi xtreme 7.1 channels pci interface sound card
logitech x-530 70w 5.1 speaker

[Scrink]

Was reading reviews for the burner I picked out and started to wonder what 'OEM' stood for and if it will create compatibility issues.

[jfk]

OEM=Original Equipment Manufacture. Basically, this is the same stuff as retail without the fancy box and extra "goodies" that are sometimes included. Half the stuff in my PC is OEM...it's a good way to save some cash.

I would NOT use the PSU that comes with that Aspire case. They are crappy quality, and if they go they're liable to take out other components with them. Look for a quality ATX 2.0 PSU from Antec, Enermex, PC Power and Cooling, Fortron/Sparkle or similar. There is a PSU thread at the top of the hardware forum that recommends good brands. Read it (there's actually 2, the second lists good and poor brands).

[glc]

You also don't need XMS ram - value select will be fine, the AMD architecture doesn't really care whether ram has tight timings or not. I also don't recommend Sony burners - stick with a Lite-On.

[Scrink]

k, changing the psu in the case to a antec 550w. and is this the ram you suggest? there are so many different types and then different types of those types im all backwards.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145579

and dvd burners these better?

http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16827106019

how do you feel about plextor?

[Alaron]

That RAM is fine. Plextor is high quality, but a bit high priced. The Lite-On you have there is fine.

[Scrink]

thanks to everyone who has inputed so far. all your replies are appriciated very much.

I was thinking of changing my mobo to support crossfire instead of sli. athough i don't plan on running a machine with dual graphics until the performance is noticely better. would either of these change compatibility of the rest of my machine?
(ide support for the burners in perticular)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...04#DetailSpecs

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131584

[juppy]

Nope, both of those mobos look like they would work fine. Both still have your IDE hookups (PATA) for the burners and SATA for the hard drive. Take the same kind of memory too. That one board is kinda pricey though, and to be honest I don't see a whole lot that is that much better on it than what the cheaper board has. I might be overlooking something but other than extra firewire connections I don't see much difference. Is that XPRESS 3200 chipset all that much better than the XPRESS 200? And why does the cheaper board not list a Southbridge in the specs? Just an oversight on Newegg?

[Scrink]

so IDE = PATA? cause i was looking up and down the specs on the boards for ide and didn't see it..this is probably why.

couple things i noticed under storage devices difference between the two:

SATA II
5 internal 1 external for the deluxe
4 for the cheaper one.

differences in the audio categories but that won't matter to me i don't think.


also looking at the fx 57 instead of the fx 60 processor
57 is 2.8 ghz
60 is 2.6

L1 cache for the 57 is 64kb + 64kb
L2 cache for the 57 is 1 mb

128 kb + 128 kb
2 x 1 mb for the 60. so are these big differnces performance wise?

[Scrink]

confusion about the power supply.
this card mentions recommended 30 amps on 12V rail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814195003

but the psu here shows only 19 amps on +12v1 and 19 amps on +12v2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103931

the card recommends a 450v psu and this one is 550 i thought it would be sufficiant. is it?

[jfk]

The two rails combined equal 38 amps. That is more than the 30 required, so you will be more than fine. When they say greater than 30 amps on the 12V, that means BOTH combined.

[juppy]

Originally Posted by Scrink so IDE = PATA? cause i was looking up and down the specs on the boards for ide and didn't see it..this is probably why.

Yes. If you see IDE, EIDE, ATA66/100, or PATA, they're all referring to that wide plug with like 40 pins in it that you plug things like optical drives into. The confusion used to only be with ATA being the same as IDE, because there used to only be one ATA and that was the parallel ATA or PATA. But since they came out with the serial version of ATA (SATA), that's added another acronym to the list of things that all mean that same plug because now they feel they have to differentiate it by saying ATA is PATA. Serial ATA (SATA) is a different plug though.

L1 cache for the 57 is 64kb + 64kb L2 cache for the 57 is 1 mb 128 kb + 128 kb 2 x 1 mb for the 60. so are these big differnces performance wise?

Well, what I've always been told is the more L2 memory the better, and apparently that FX60 has twice the memory all around over the FX57, so yeah, I would *think* it would make a good difference. I could be wrong though coz I don't personally have the money to buy one of each chip and test them side by side. I guess it all depends on the money. If the 60 isn't that much higher, I'd say go for that one. If its alot more $$$ though, the 57 would still do a fine job, I'm sure.

[blue60007]

The FX-60 is a dual core, so it has one 1MB L2 cache per core. That would also double the L1 cache. The FX-57 has one core, and one 1MB L2 cache for that one core.

[Scrink]

I got 95% of my parts now and im getting ready to place the cpu onto the mother board. But I wanted opinions on the thermal compound that comes with my cpu. its already on the heat sink. the cpu i have is the amd 64 fx 57 should i just use the stuff that is on the heat sink already or clean it off and go with artic silver? and if i should clean it off is there any special way to do so or can i just wipe it off with something.

[blue60007]

Use the thermal pad on the retail (it's the stock cooler isn't it?) cooler or you'll void the warranty on your $800 CPU.

[Scrink]

ok here's what i've done so far. placed the cpu and heatsink on my mobo. plugged cpu fan into mobo. installed 2 1xgb ram. hooked up 5 case fans and one lcd display. turned on computer to see if the fans worked. heard a little electircal 'pop' sound followed by some smoke off the mobo near the bottom right edge. so i think i blew something here.

unplugged all the fans and lcd except the cpu fan. installed graphics card, plugged it into psu. plugged in monitor. so all i have hooked up are

mobo to psu
cpu to mobo and heatsink fan to mobo
graphics card is in and plugged to monitor and psu
ram is in.

everytime i turn it on now it will run for about 3 seconds and then shut down all the fans...the green lcd light on my mobo will stay on though.

[glc]

You definitely blew something there.

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=132409

[Scrink]

ok here is what i did and im a idiot. I took off the 4 brass spacers off my case mobo tray cause i didn't know what they were for. I thought they were going to damage my mobo cause i only had 4 of them for 9 screw holes nonetheless my mobo was shorting on the case tray. after taking out my mobo and assembling outside the case it worked like a charm. Do i have reason to believe due to the previous smoke incident that my mobo might be permenatly damaged?

[blue60007]

So the computer is working now out of the case? If so, I'd check to make sure everything is working and stable. See if you can find any scorch marks to locate the source of the smoke...