PC Build Specs: Comments Appreciated

[andper10]

I am fairly new to the world of computer building. I have some books about it right now, and I hope to build my first PC this summer. I will use it for gaming, MS Office, and Internet. My Budget for the tower itself is between $500 and $600. This is my parts list as of now. Most of these are from Fry's Electronics.

Processor & Motherboard Combo: Intel P4 3.0Ghz [no HT ]& ECS RS400-A HERE
Case: Still Up in the air, I'd like something between $50 and $75 with clear side pannel, good cooling, and plenty of room. I've been looking at a Scorpio 430W case HERE.
Hard Drive: Haven't decided on something definite yet. Watching for something 80GB to 300GB under $50. SATA or IDE, whatever has the best price.
Video Card: 256MB ATI AGP HERE
Sound: Integrated (6 Channels), Altec Lansing Speakers HERE.
RAM: (1GB) One of these three: 1 2 3
USB/Firewire 5 1/2 inch bay mount HERE
Optical Drive CD/DVD Burner Combo like this only Emprex Brand (it is cheaper)
Operating System Windows XP Home OEM HERE (What does OEM mean, is it a bad thing)
Monitor: as crazy as it may sound, I am going to try to get a used one (or two if they are the same) from Goodwill. I've been there and they had ten last time I went.

Without the monitor(s), this will cost about $550.

I also have a cheap tv tuner card and a wireless usb adapter that I plan to install after I get the computer set up.

Fans, Sound, LAN, and Power Supply included with case or mobo.

If there are compatibility issues, please say so now before I buy all the parts! I am confused about what ram this mobo takes, 184 pin or 240 pin or both. If someone could clear that up for me that would be appreciated. Also, how good is the onboard video? Does anyone have the ATI Radeon Xpress200 onboard? I was planning on buying a seperate card, but just wondering. Suggestions, Comments, etc. appreciated greatly.

[doctorgonzo]

You don't want an ECS motherboard. They are at the bottom in terms of quality.

That video card probably isn't going to be able to run the latest games. If you are going to be doing serious gaming, you are going to need an upgrade.

That motherboard takes either DDR or DDR2 memory, but like I said, that's not a good motherboard at all. I like Corsair Value Select memory if you aren't going to overclock.

That USB/Firewire hub needs an available Firewire connection on the motherboard, and I don't know if that exists.

You can get a Lite-On DVD burner for less at Newegg that will burn everything.

Windows OEM is fine, the OEM just means that M$ won't give you any support, you are on your own.

Getting a used monitor is fine; CRT monitors tend to hold their value.

[andper10]

Thanks for the heads up on the mother board. What kind of mobo do you recommend? Do you know of any other web sites with good prices on p4 processors and higher quality mobo's. If I need to, I can buy a firewire card. When you say "that video card" are you referring to the integrated video, or the card that I am looking at? Also, what is a cost effective choice for a better video card? I found the lite-on drive on newegg, I probobly will go with that. Thanks for you ram reccommendation and for clearing up OEM.

Thanks again for all the feedback!
-Andrew

[blue60007]

newegg.com is probably the best site to shop from... neither the onboard video nor that card are going to do much gaming. You just can't buy much of a gaming computer for under $600 to be honest.

Why do you need a USB/Firewire bay/hub? The board will have USB for sure, and any decent board should have Firewire (but not always).

I would take the Cosair RAM. You may have to cut back to 512MB (2 x 256MB modules) for now so you can squeeze in a faster video card. It's cheaper to add more RAM later than to replace the video card.

[doctorgonzo]

I too recommend Newegg. Great prices, great selection, fast service. I'd look at Asus or Intel boards for an Intel processor. And I was referring to the video card you selected as being inadequate, not the onboard video. If you want a cost-effective video card for running the newest games, you are looking at spending around $150 at least.

[andper10]

How much difference would I notice between a 3Ghz p4 and a 2.66Ghz p4? Btw, I will go with corsair ram. Is This video card any better? (The most "intense" games that I want to play on it are Rollercoaster Tycoon 3, and Need For Speed Most Wanted. I will also want to be able to play future NFS Games without needing a new video card.) I am looking at intel and asus mobo's now.

Answering Blue60007's Question, I would like to have usb ports on the front of the computer. I don't have to have firewire, but it just happened that one had firewire ports. I will probably get something more like this.

[blue60007]

Other than the obvious speed difference, it's a 533 FSB (and it probably doesn't have HT). You might have to go with that on this budget.

Your case should have front USB ports.

Here's the cheapest board that I found that I can recommend. Only problem is it only has 2 DDR slots, so you can't add more RAM without replacing what you've got. 1GB should be enough anyway though. Looks like your original board only has two slots too, you can't use both DDR and DRR2 at the same time.

There's a Intel 511 that runs slightly faster at 2.8GHz, but still 533 FSB. Then you'd need a video card like this. Even though you'd have to have a slower CPU, this faster video card would really help you out. NFS: MW is a pretty graphic intensive game from what I've seen. Office and the internet doesn't need a blazing fast CPU either.

There's only one other problem - that power supply in the case is probably junk. If you can squeeze in another $25, there's a Antec Sonata II that comes with a quality 450W power supply. EDIT: Oops, wait, it doesn't have a side window. Might be hard to get a case like that AND a quality power supply.

[andper10]

Blue 60007, I love the mother board. I will probably end up with that one in my computer. It doesn't come out and say anything about an agp port though, and I was wondering if the black slot is agp. I like the video card, but it is a little too pricy. The black case isn't up my alley. I'll probably leave the tower right next to the monitor, and I would like to be more colorful, plus, like you said, it doesn't have a side window. I also read a review about how someone's psu broke after 5 months. The Raidmax Scorpio is only 30 Watts less, and I don't see a problem with it. As far as the processors go, what do you think of oem processors? I can get a $145 3 Ghz OEM w/ 800 Mhz FSB and a $10 Heat Sink w/ fan. Or, I can get a $114 (sale) 2.8 Ghz w/ no HT and slower FSB (533Mhz) and included heatsing/fan. Is the 3Ghz, HT, and faster FSB worth the extra money?

Thanks for the links and suggestions!
-Andrew

[doctorgonzo]

That board has a PCI Express slot, not an AGP slot. That would be a good quality board.

[freakitchen]

The black case isn't up my alley. I'll probably leave the tower right next to the monitor, and I would like to be more colorful, plus, like you said, it doesn't have a side window. I also read a review about how someone's psu broke after 5 months. The Raidmax Scorpio is only 30 Watts less, and I don't see a problem with it.

If you'd prefer a more colourful case, then I'd choose one without a power supply installed, and get a quality PSU seperately. The quality of the brand is more important than wattage, and Raidmax aren't good quality. Check out the PSU reference thread, stickied at the top of the general hardware forum, for the good brands.

FK

[andper10]

I really like this case a lot! It comes with 3 fans, which seems to be enough. No psu, so I'll get a seperate one. I will check the psu sticky when I have some more spare time.

[freakitchen]

That case should be fine. A quality 450w power supply (like an Antec Smartpower, or FSP Group) should be ok for your build.

FK

[blue60007]

FSP and XClio have 450W that sell for around $50 or under. If you go with the PCI-Express board, you'll need one with a 24 pin or 20+4 pin connector.

[andper10]

I looked at some power supplies today. My two favorite ones were both on the best psu companies list. This 400W Sparkle looks like it might work, but do you think that I need more power for a 75-100 dollar video card, p4 2.8-3.0, 1Gb DDR Ram, 1 HD, 1 DVD-RW Drive, and a few other USB/PCI things? This one is a 500W Xciol, and I'm pretty sure that it would work, but it costs a bit more. Which one do you think that I should get? Also, "as far as the processors go, what do you think of oem processors? I can get a $145 3 Ghz OEM w/ 800 Mhz FSB and a $10 Heat Sink w/ fan. Or, I can get a $114 (sale) 2.8 Ghz w/ no HT and slower FSB (533Mhz) and included heatsing/fan. Is the 3Ghz, HT, and faster FSB worth the extra money?" One more thing, what general brand(s) and/or chipset(s) do you recommend for video/graphics cards? Thats all for now.

Thanks a bunch to all of you who gave me suggestions, links, etc!

P.S. I bolded the key questions that I'd like answered.

[andper10]

Please don't disregard my last post, but I was looking at the fry's ad, and lo and behold, there is a 430W psu for $30! Thermaltake TR2 W0070 ATX 430W HERE. I looked it up on Newegg, and they have it for the same price and free shipping! Great Deal, aothough it makes me wonder if there's a defect, or if they are discontiuning the model, or what. Its got pretty nice reviews. Do you think that this is too good to be true, or should I get it?
Vital Stats:
1 x Main connector (20+4 pin)
1 x 12V (P4)
9 x peripheral
2 x SATA
2 x Floppy
1 x PCI-E

[nicolaus corelius]

its not too good to be true. its a hot seller and just right for u.

[glc]

No, the W0070 is not suitable for a PCI-E build. It's an old ATX 1.x unit with a extra connector grafted on. You need ATX 2.0. The XClio 450 watt is the best deal in 2.0 units.

Get a retail processor. Not only does it come with a heatsink/fan, it has a 3 year manufacturer's warranty. OEM processors are only warranted by the vendor, whose policies differ widely. If you game, the 800 FSB models are worth the extra cost.

Stay away from the offbrand stuff at Fry's - you are asking for issues.

[andper10]

OEM processors are only warranted by the vendor, whose policies differ widely

I looked into company where I am watching the OEM Processor. They test each one before it leaves, and they offer a 1 year warranty.

Originally Posted by glc No, the W0070 is not suitable for a PCI-E build. It's an old ATX 1.x unit with a extra connector grafted on.

Looks like they did a good job "grafting" it. (Pic here) What are the disadvantages of 1.1 vs 2.0 psu's? I don't need a psu that will power a $500 video card, I'm hoping to get a card for under $100. By the way, Any video card suggestions?

...If you game, the 800 FSB models are worth the extra cost.

If you read the above, I do some gaming. I want this computer to run the latest NFS Games (I have NFS Most Wanted waiting to be played), and RollerCoaster Tycoon 3. That's the most intense games that I'll be playing though.

Stay away from the offbrand stuff at Fry's - you are asking for issues.

For "off brand" are you refering to the Thermaltake power supply? If so, Thermaltake is on the list of good psu's on this site. I have one no and one yes for the power supply, anyone else have an opinion? I would like to save some money on a psu here if possible.

As always, Thanks for you comments, etc.
-Andrew

[glc]

The Thermaltake only has a single +12 volt rail at 18 amps. This is not enough power for a PCI-E rig. The XClio 450 has dual rails, each at around 15 amps. BIG difference.

[andper10]

Ok. Thanks for the clarification.

[nicolaus corelius]

i know that the TT is weak on the 12v rail. but i think that it should adequatly power a semi-weak card like 6600gt or 6800gt

[blue60007]

You really need a dual rail power supply. Otherwise you are looking at instability. I wouldn't call the 6800GT weak, I think it had pretty high power consumption. The XClio is only $10 or so more.

[andper10]

Thanks for all of your comments! From them, I have devised a new list. Please let me know if something still seems bad as far as compatibility, product manufacturer, or any other reason. Here it is:

Processor: 2.8 Ghz P4 w/ 533 FSB - Retail Newegg $115.00 2.8 G Retail HERE I will get a 3Ghz retail from Newegg if I earn enough money this summer.
Heat Sink &/or Fan: Included with Processor
Motherboard Asus ATX PCI-E; SATA; intg. Sound, LAN, USB Newegg $68.99 HERE
Power Supply Xcilo Goodpower 500 Watt $48.99 HERE
Case Logsis Yen/Yang Transparent Case Newegg $67.99 HERE
Fans 3 Included with Case
Hard Drive 80-160GB Fry's $40.00
CD/DVD Burner LITE ON 16X CD/DVD +/- R & DVD RAM Newegg $39.99 HERE
Video Card (PCI-E) I need some suggestions. $65.00
Speakers ALTEC LANSING 1 Sub. 2 "Satelites" Fry's $25.00 HERE
Sound Card Included with MOBO
PC3200 Ram (1 GB) Corsair 1GB (1 Stick) $66.00 HERE
Wireless USB Adapter Have Already
Network Card Included with MOBO
Operating System MS Windows XP - OEM $89.95 NEWEGG HERE

Total: $511.91

Other Stuff:
Optical Mouse (BTC)(Fry's) $4.99
Keyboard (Comp. Renisance?) $5.00
Monitor 1 (Goodwill) $15.00
Monitor 2 (Goodwill) ?
Desk (Fry's) $40.00
Wheeled Office Chair included w/ above

Other Stuff Total: $64.99

Grand Total: $576.90

[Alaron]

Looks alright to me. Just a couple changes.

Switch to this ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145440
It is the same that you have, just 2 sticks instead of one. You'll get a performance boost with Dual Channel.

Video card wise, you can't have anything too powerful for your budget. But this will get the job done: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814142058
If you are a big gamer, it's wise to save up for a new one later.

Lastly, on the hard drive, make sure it has a 16mb cache from Seagate or Western Digital.

[andper10]

Here are a few of the video cards that I'm looking at. Which one should I get? 1 2 3 4. I'm leaning toward 2 simply because it has OpenGL 2.0. I would like to run dual monitors, and 1 & 3 have an included DVI to SVGA converter. Of course, I can buy one for $3.75 HERE. Which card do you recommend?

Thanks for all comments!
-Andrew

[andper10]

Originally Posted by Alaron Looks alright to me. Just a couple changes. Switch to this ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145440 It is the same that you have, just 2 sticks instead of one. You'll get a performance boost with Dual Channel...

I wanted to leave a slot open on my motherboard for expansion. How much of a performace boost are we talking about? Will it be noticeable?

[blue60007]

It'll be noticable with an Intel build. I would go with the dual channel sticks.

The 3rd, ASUS, is the best brand of the 4.

[andper10]

Thanks for the suggestions. What's the advantage of getting this ram ($71) over this ram ($69)? I see that one has a higher cas latency; what is that? I'll get this ASUS video card (the one that Blue60007 recommended).

Thanks for comments and suggestions!
-Andrew

[andper10]

I was looking over my list in excel, and I realized that the auto sum was not set to add in the processor cost. No wonder that total seemed so low! If I get two monitors, and the 3 Ghz processor, it will really cost $763 for the grand total. I doubt that you care, but just thought that I'd let you know.

-Andrew

[Alaron]

Cas is explained here:http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/C/colu...ss_strobe.html
Lower is better.

The difference is probably not noticable, but for only $2 more, I would go with the 2.5. Either are good choices though since it is Corsair.