Need help!!!

[Planefreak]

I recently got hooked on the idea of building a new computer when I relized I had the slowest computer of anyone I knew
While shopping I ran into a problem, I don't know which processor to buy.
I have heard a lot of good things about AMD Athlon 64 FX and some good things about Pentium 4 processors, but it seems the AMD is slower and costs quite a bit more. Celeron also seems like great deal, but I have seen a 2.4ghz in action and am not satisfied with its performance.
Which processor do you recommened? I am looking to complete my computer with less than $500. I already have a new 100gb hard drive, an operating system, a screen, speakers, keyboard, and mouse.



(My old computer: Compaq Presario with an 800mhz Celeron, and a weak 128mb of ram. Sad isn't it?)

[Mr.Ferrari]

Would that be 500 for the proc? Either way wait.
Conroe will own them all and then some. By then some I mean about 10 times. Going to be much much cheaper too. All the way from 130 to about 800-900. Depending on which fits your needs.

[glc]

If you want to build a computer for $500, you are going to be stuck with a Sempron or Celeron. The Athlon 64 FX by itself is well over $500 by itself. You *might* be able to squeeze in a Pentium-D 805 dual core or an entry level standard Athlon 64 with careful choices in your other components.

[Foosa]

just wait and save up. Like Mr.Ferrari was saying intels core 2 duo is going to be realesed next month and they(the grape vine) is predicting price drops for alot of cpus. When your wallet gets bigger start looking to build. It would be hard to build on 500$ but not impossible.

What do you want this computer to do as well? Games? music? just internet?

[Staren]

If it was me, I would wait until I had a bit more cash to work with and another month anyway because the new Intel Core Duos will change price points a bit. $500 for the entire tower can be done if nesesarry, but it's not ideal it can be helped.

It sounds to me like you might want to do a bit more reading on what is really out there. I wouldn't pick parts 'only' on what we say. The build itself is easy, but the whole point is to be able to work on the system yourself and not rely on paying someone else. You can't do that if you don't really know what you put in it. I only say that because you should make the ultimete choice no matter what option people tell you to get here.

[Cricket]

What will you be using the computer for? Gaming? Basic business applications? Multi-media work? Just cruising the net and email?

Cricket

[Planefreak]

I am using $500 for a base price. I am aware that the price of cpus are steadily dropping and don't plan to buy anything until July or August. I'd like to use my PC for music, games, some internet although I only have dial-up, and converting video and music files.
One thing that I am worried about is that if I build a PC will it have enough power to run future games with decent speed. My friend's computer has a 2.4ghz proc. and 512mb of ram and is has a very difficult time running GTA San Andreas which doesn't require much a mere 1ghz of and 384mb of ram.
I'd like to stay away from Celeron.
After viewing the poll results I noticed that no one voted for Celeron, but mainly other cpus. Which other cpus do you recommened?
I'd also like to know if the AMD 3500+ is the same speed as the Intel 3.5 ghz. I have heard that they are similar.

Thanks.

[spartan015]

well you don't have to buy the best that AMD offers, (in my opinion lol) which is the FX line. Rather there are plenty of AMD Athlon 64 that you can get below 200... but since you're waiting till july or August then the prices might drop more. get 1gb of ram (good setup is 2x 512mb) and a decent graphic card, because your friend might be bottlenecked at the graphic card side...

San Andreas isn't a very high end game, it runs on a XP 2500+ with an FX 5200 pretty smoothly so... yea maybe celerons are just bad.

I can't really say anything for the Intels since my last CPU was a PII (hah my computer was worse!).

Anyways, what ever CPU u look for, read the reviews in Newegg they can be helpful.

[rspassey]

Originally Posted by Planefreak it seems the AMD is slower and costs quite a bit more.

You seem to think that AMD is slower. This is quite the contrary. AMD processors do typically have lower clock speeds, but this relatively means nothing. AMD makes up for it elsewhere, and in reality, similiarly priced 64 bit processors from each vendor, disregarding the labeled clock speed, they will run at equal speeds. Pay little attention to the clock speeds when comparing AMD and Intel processors.

[Planefreak]

I'd thought about the bottleneck in the video card. My mom's computer is a 2.16ghz AMD (3000+) and only has 512mb of ram. It cannot even run GTA. I think it has a terrible video card built onto the motherboard. My computer is to slow to run it. I have looked at the AMD models and thought about a dual-core. Does anyone find them useful? I don't even know I have to programs that I would like to run independently, and they are a considerable more amount. I want at least 3ghz of cpu and I will go with at least 1gb of ram.

Any suggestions on cpu's tell me I'll check them out!!!

[jayb1234]

Also within your budget, you have to consider the cost of the operating system.

You really can't put together a decent gaming machine for $500.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by jayb1234 You really can't put together a decent gaming machine for $500.

I agree...you really need at least $1000 to build a halfway decent gaming rig.

You seem to be stuck only thinking of which CPU to get but you have to also look at the video card if you want to play high end games. Even if you had the fastest CPU out there it won't mean anything if you're using on-board graphics.

Cricket

[jfk]

Cricket makes a very good observation above. If you're going to be gaming, comparatively speaking you should be looking at spending as much, or more, on the video card than the processor. The vid card in my sig rig currently retails for just over twice what my sig rig processor goes for. I know a LOT of good gaming rigs that use AMD 64's, generally 3000+ and 3200+ processors, with excellent video cards that give outstanding performance. From a gaming only perspective, think video card, ram, processor, generally in that order. You can switch priority on the ram and processor if you want, but the video card is the single most important item in a gaming build.

[Planefreak]

I started with the cpu because the cpu is only compatible with some mobos and the mobo is only compatible with certain cases. The video cards are compatible with most computers however. I have started looking at video cards.

[Kareeser]

If you're planning on playing games such as GTA:SA, or GTA:VC, you don't need the very best graphics card, even last generation cards such as the GeForce 6600 (About $120 or less) will do well. However, if you're planning on playing newer games, then you would have to get a better graphics card, and that is where the problem lies. The newest graphics cards are well over $500.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Planefreak I started with the cpu because the cpu is only compatible with some mobos and the mobo is only compatible with certain cases.

As long as the motherboard follows the ATX standard it will fit in any ATX case (which a vast majority of the cases are now).

Originally Posted by Planefreak The video cards are compatible with most computers however.

Not true, it depends on the type of video card it is. Older video cards used the AGP slot but newer video cards are PCI Express 16...the two aren't interchangeable. PCI Express 16 is now the current video slot standard but there are still motherboards being sold with AGP slots. Most modern motherboards do have the PCI Express 16 video slot. Just be sure you're looking at the right type of video card to fit the video slot on the motherboard you choose.

Cricket

[Planefreak]

What graphics card do you recommend? I think I will probably try to cop a better deal off of ebay. Do you know if the Asus mobo's have the new PCI or older AGP. I have heard good things about Asus and they are reasonably priced. Does the bus speed make a big difference? What is bus speed? What other things should I look at when shopping for a mobo?

[ammo]

Almost all new boards are PCI-E and ASUS is probably the best in most cases. First decide if you want AMD or Intel. I recommend AMD for gaming. A 2.2GHz AMD Athlon 64 works like(or better) then a 3.0GHz Pentium 4 EM64T. Yes the bus speed makes a difference. Bus speed is the speed at which the data can travel between the cpu and chipset. (hence, BUS speed). Also look at RAM standard, reviews by others, what cpu it can use, bus speed, etc... Almost everything is important because everything else runs through the mobo.

[ammo]

I recommend a video card with a 256-bit memory interface, 256MB of memory, as many pixel pipelines as you can afford. Those are the most important things on a video card. Also look at what options the card has like DVI, VIVO (video-in and video-out) or whatever options you might like. And I think you should look at everyones reviews of the product to get a good idea what you can expect of it or any other component

[ammo]

some card like this is good.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102688

[Planefreak]

I am assuming the pixel pipelines refer to the graphics. It is the least of my worries for now. My monitor is 6 or 7 years old but is nice to have the option. Is the video card that you sent the link of high end? Will support many games in the future?
Thanks!!!!

[ammo]

Yes, that card will be good for a while

[jfk]

Originally Posted by Planefreak I am assuming the pixel pipelines refer to the graphics. It is the least of my worries for now.

Not really. As ammo mentioned pipelines (and pixel shaders) are very important to how well a video card performs. Add in memory and core clocks, interface speed, etc. etc. and they all affect vid card performance. If you want to build a balanced system you NEED to think about all of this. I really suggest you step back and read these forums (particularly the build your own PC forum) to start to gain some ideas on what you want. Look at other people's builds to get an idea of what low/medium/high performance rigs look like, prices, and start putting together your own ideas. Then run it by people here. Putting in a high speed CPU with a low end vid card and minimum ram will NOT result in a well balanced, good performing system. You seem to be randomly asking about a part here and a part there. A PC is an integrated system that needs to be well thought out if your going to get what you want. Take the time to read some more, it will help you immensely. JMO.

[Staren]

The part of this thing I think you're missing is that, yes you need to match CPU to Motherboard, and Video card to Motherboard, BUT you just do that. Once you've done enough reading that part of it just happens with a few questions here or there. What you really have to think about is the entire system and how to BALANCE everything. not just one part. If you spend your money in one place and try to trickle down the rest of your budget, you wiill not get what you want out of the computer.

That's something I've always hated about prebult brand name computers. They put the biggest processor in they can for the price, and then cheap out on the RAM and video card. It just ruins the potental power that could be there. Even higher end computers do it to a point, but it's real bad in medium and low priced boxes. It's a marketing thing. Not how you should really be building a computer if you want the most out of it that you can get.

[ammo]

The worst part about the store bought computers is they skimp on the mobo and that is one of the most, if not the most, important component, but the average consumer does not know that.

[Planefreak]

I do know that a computer needs to have "balanced" components. A fast processor does nothing unless the mobo, drives, and video card can keep up with it. A good mobo and cpu are pointless with out proper ram. My computer only has 128mb of ram but I am not going to upgrade it because it is so old , but itruns XP with decent speed and some older games. I want a computer that can run games with decent speed. I am not worried about running them as fast as the game will allow. I plan to do other things with my computer as well. I plan to shop around and find out more about everything and the benefits of some mobos compared to others and do the same with cpus and video cards. I am looking for a cheap setup that runs like a very high end gamer. That is almost impossible. I also don't plan on skimping on any of the parts because one thing can effect my computers overall performance. If I skimp on one part I'll skimp on others to. And like most people suggest, I read reviews on things I plan to buy.

The main reason I don't like store bought computers is that they always come with a monitor, speakers, keyboard, and mouse. You have no choice. And like you said they throw in a couple good components. My mom's computer has a 2.16Ghz AMD Athlon but it has a slow DVD drive, 512 mb of ram, and no video card except what is built onto the mobo.

[glc]

I am looking for a cheap setup that runs like a very high end gamer. That is almost impossible.

No, it *IS* impossible. Set your budget sights higher.

[jfk]

If you want your PC to run like a high end gamer, you ABSOLUTELY have to pay for it. Period. It IS impossible to have a high end gamer without spending a fair chunk of change.

*edit* Oops, GLC beat me to it. The point is absolutely correct and valid though.......

[Planefreak]

I was just reading about some new tech coming out.
What do you think I should do? (read below)
I am buildng a decent gaming PC and have heard of some new tech coming out soon. One is the new ram. It will have a faster transfer rate than the 2nd version. Next, should I consider investing in a motherboard that supports linking 2 video cards? Thirdly, do you think if I wait the prices on the AMD FX line drop because of their newest line of 940 socket series. Finally, the new dual-core processors are clocked at slower speeds but capable of running 2 programs independently, and the future this may be utilized to run the same program twice as fast. Would it be worth investing in a Dual-core cpu now sooner than later?

[Planefreak]

What are some of the most important things I should look for in a video card?
Also, list what cards you recommend for under $300, no AGP.
What are the minimum things I should watch for?


Thanks!