First time build comments?

[cop33]

First time poster here. After 8 years of faithful service from my Quantex P2 400 I have decided to build my first computer alongside my 10 and 14 year old kids.

I'm sticking with Intel, do video/photo editing and enjoy flight sims (MS FS2004, CFS2, etc.).

So here is what I picked out:

1 AeroCool Masstige BLK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

1 PC Power & Cooling Turbo-cool 510 Express SLI Power Supply

1 ABIT AW8D Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard

1 Intel Pentium 4 631 Cedar Mill 800MHz FSB LGA 775 Processor Model

1 BFG Tech BFGR78256GTOC Geforce 7800GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16

1 CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory

2 Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drives

1 Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM

1 ZALMAN CNPS9500 LED 92mm 2 Ball Blue LED Light Cooling Fan with Heatsink

1 ViewSonic VX924 Black/Silver 19" 3ms gray-to-gray (avg.); 5ms white-black-white (typ) LCD Monitor - Retail

1 SAMSUNG 16X DVD±R DVD Burner With 5X DVD-RAM Write and LightScribe Black ATA/ATAPI Model SH-S162L/BEBN - OEM

1 NEC 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE/ATAPI Model ND-3550A - OEM

1 Microsoft Windows XP Professional With SP2 - OEM

I realize that the mobo is not Conroe compatible but I just want a stable platform for my uses listed above and will worry about upgrading later.

Do you see in potential conflicts with what I have listed?

I also have some procedural questions about hooking the main components up (I'll be doing it outside of the case) but I'll save that for another thread.

This looks like a great forum and I appreciate your feedback.

[PnyK1d]

you should try posting links to the component so other posters can see details on things they are unsure of

[Mr.Ferrari]

Skip the abit and get something of the equivalent from asus. Like a asus p5wd2 or if you wanna have compatibility with future conroe then get a asus p5wdh.

Skip the cedar mill, no point in getting single core right now whilst dual is so darn cheap. Grab a Pentium D 930 for 173.

And theres no need for ddr2800 unless you plan on overclocking.

No need for a additional heatsink as the processor will come with one. Unless of course you plan on doing overclocking. Even then there are much better choices then the zalman for the $$.

And see if you can get a 7900gt rather then the old gen 7800.

And great great choice on a powersupply.

[blue60007]

Great choice on the power supply, agreed. *however* you can get something for much less that's just as good. I'd recommend the Antec Truepower - II 550. I think it costs half as much, but still high quality.

If you aren't worried about upgrading to Conroe, something like the ASUS P5LD2 would be a good choice. If you do want Conroe upgradability, go with the one Mr Ferrari recommended - P5W DH Deluxe (it'll cost you $$$ though).

Do you need the extra functionality of XP Pro? Going with Home would save you a few bucks.

I would avoid Samsung drives...they have a reputation of being noisy and un-reliable (I can relate to the former). LITE-ON's and NECs are good.

Go ahead and post your other questions here...that we can se what you've got and everything without having to repost all that.

[jayb1234]

One other thing about the aftermarket CPU fan/heatsink unit.

Using one will void your CPU warranty.

Check the online version of the motherboard manual to see if you need a floppy drive during the setup. And they are handy to have for troubleshooting.

[786ARS]

i agree with the 7900GT, its practically the same price, but alot more powerfull

[Stuey]

I agree with the Antec suggestion. I agree that Samsung drives are quite noisy, but it's proved to be somewhat reliable.

If you go for an aftermarket cooler, Zalmans are pretty decent. I prefer the 92mm orb-style ones b/c of the decent cost, outstanding performance, and its low noice. The one you chose will be perform wonderfully, but may be a little in excess. If a few dollars aren't an issue, then go with whichever design floats your boat.

As for the case you chose, I think you may want to reconsider. The rear exhaust looks like it'll impede airflow since it's stamped for either two 80mm fans, or a single 120mm fan. I think the side fans will create a whole lot of noise when a single 120mm fan should be placed at the spot available at the intake. More importantly, it only has two 3.5" slots while there are 10 5" slots. Granted there might be add-ons which provide conversion so you can put a HD in one of those slots, but this is still something to consider.

CoolerMaster makes some nice cases which are similar in appearance but with more optimally internal arrangements.

As for abit vs. asus, I personally prefer Abit. BUT unless there's a specific feature you desire that is present in the Abit and absent in the Asus mentioned, an Asus might be better.

Where do you plan on shopping? Newegg is excellent, as is ZipZoomFly. Personally, I think you should check out ZipZoomFly for bulkier items such as the case you choose, since they won't charge you shipping. But, their prices are sometimes higher than Newegg, so for a few dollars extra it may be worth ordering all from a single place.

Another thing... do you need a new mouse/keyboard, or are you reusing what you've got? Good luck with the build, welcome to PCMech, and there are many wonderful people here who can and will answer any questions you may have.

[cop33]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I guess I should have been clearer when I said "here's what I picked out". I really meant it - I already ordered it from newegg.

You see, I have a terrible time making computer decisions and I have been obsessing over this build for months - reading various online reviews, checking newegg customer reviews of components and reading almost EVERY one of them, checking manufacturer websites and digging through various forum posts (including this one) and ended up getting paralyzed with indecision. I knew if I would have posted this list before I ordered it, everyone's opinions would have had me second guessing all over again!

So I just approached it as follows:

The case looked like it had plenty of room for expansion and reviews said it was well built and had good airflow.

The PSU is the heart of the system and I didn't want to skimp on it. I guess the build quality of PC P&C reminded me of my old tube amp stereo equipment - built like a tank to last for years.

The Cedar Mill is supposed to run cooler than Prescotts and I wanted to try a little oc'ing. I really didn't want to pay right now for bleeding edge technology.

The mobo gave me a LOT of grief deciding on - half the people loved the asus boards and the other half griped about them. The same could be said for the rest of them. I read enough of the reviews about the stability of the Abit so I went for it. The oc'ing option is supposed to be pretty good and I'd like to try it out.

The 7900T card reviews I read did not look very favorable in general. The 7800T looked more stable and will fill the gap right now. When MS Flight Sim X comes out, it will be "optimised" for Vista and DX 10 (which I have read that no current card will be able to handle). So I know I will be looking for a new card fairly soon.

I currently have a Plextor drive that is very reliable but sounds like a 747 on takeoff! Once again, reviews led me to this decision. We'll see what happens.

BTW, I do have a FDD and mouse and keyboard - didn't think it was crucial to list them.

Everyone has their own opinion on the best choices and no two are exactly the same. I guess I wanted to know if anything stood out as being a massive screw up compatibility-wise that would prevent a first time POST. Since no one has mentioned anything like that, I feel somewhat relieved about the choices. Sorry if anyone spent a lot of time searching for suggestions - I will refer to them for future purchases.

The boxes are supposed to be arriving on Thursday and I already have downloaded the mobo manual and read through it twice in preparation. The family is stoked - the first new computer in 8 years and we are going to build it!

I'm making a list of questions regarding the inital out of case testing. I'll post them later.

[Stuey]

Ah. Whoops.

Well, your choices are very solidly made. In regard to the case, I still stand by my opinion that the exhaust configuration is not optimal, but that doesn't mean that it won't perform well. If you ever have thermal issues, there are plenty of things you can do. One thing you might want to consider is placing two of the side fans as the exhaust, leaving one at the side, and placing the 120mm at the front as an intake. But there's no telling if that would help, and you'll probably only need to fiddle if you load the case full of addons or large addons which significantly impede air flow. (In other words, everything should be perfect, but I wanted to offer my configuration suggestion just in case heat dissipation ever became an issue).

Again, overall these are great choices, and I wish you luck and a fun time assmbling the system. If you ever wish to add-on additional hard drives, the case might come with adapters, or you could always buy one, or there are external cases. BUT with half a terrabyte coming your way (unless you're planning on a raid array), you should have plenty of storage space for the foreseeable future.

As for assembling the system outside of the case, that's generally done if something goes wrong. However, if it makes you feel more comfortable to do so, then it'll be worth it.

Again, nice system, good luck, and have fun!

[Mr.Ferrari]

Just one word of advice. Dont always go on newegg reviews, most of the time its newbies, well, being newbies.

But none the less, superb choices on a first time.

Just a few things.

You are true about the cedar mills vs. prescott's. But the only reason I suggested pentium d 930 presler is it has 2x 65nm die cores. You could say like two cedar mill's. And that being said, the performance would nonetheless be much higher then a cedarmaill. And the price, is very close if not cheaper. And stays pretty cool too.

On the abit vs. asus.

Abit was a very known and reliable manufacturer in the past. The number 1 choice for overclockers. But they have recently turned into the opposite. Shaddy products, nonexistent U.S service, and questionable overclocking and board stability. Most people think its because the famous BIOS writer David Wu left for DFI.
They barely survived last year.
Ask any overclocker, even the most extreme, they will always pick the Asus P5WD2 over the abit equvialent. P5WD2 is considered the best of the best for current Intel ocing. And they have a superb customer service. And their boards offer alot of bang for the money.

But recently, starting with the abit aw8D they have started changing. Alot of people really experianced good overclocking and much more better stability in regards to older abit boards.
So I think your off pretty good...Good luck with overclocking.

And yes that pc p&c is built like a tank. Originaly made for servers. Great beefy powersupply that will definately outperform its modest 510W rating.

And on the mastige.
Its has been becoming a increasingly very popular choice. Alot of people have been ordering these up. Watercoolers especially. Awesome bang/buck. Kinda looks like a mini coolermaster stacker.
Great design, superb airflow, and some of the best aesthetics in its pricerange. Aerocool did a way better job compared to the past turbine thingy.

[cop33]

Thanks for the helpful advice, Mr. Ferrari and Stuey. I have a few questions regarding the "Having problems with a new build? Try this." thread in this forum.

1. I'll start off installing one stick of RAM, right? The mobo manual has a ton of different options regarding the positioning of two or more sticks of RAM. There is Single Channel (installed on channel A, DIMM 1 & 2,or Channel B, DIMM 3 & 4), Dual Channel Asymmetric or Dual Channel Symmetric - (each with up to 10 variations). So, for one stick I'll put it in Single Channel, A/DIMM 1. Then assuming it POSTS, what configuration of two sticks of RAM do you recommend?

2.If I install the video card with no OS installed, will there be any issues with no drivers being installed for the video card? Will the system "see" it without drivers?

3.Should I also install the fdd just in case it is needed?

4.Assuming it POSTS, what screen will be displayed and then what do I do? I was thinking of going into the BIOS to monitor the various temps (cpu, fan speed, etc.) and then exit back to whatever screen is displayed.How long should you let it run in this state and when you are ready to turn it off, what is the procedure? Is it safe to just short out the power contacts to turn it off?

Well, you can tell I've never started a system w/o an OS installed so I hope you can bear all the stupid questions. Thanks!

[Stuey]

Well, that thread is typically refered to people who are having issues getting their new system to post. With that said, I reiterate that these steps are unncesessary, but if it makes you mroe comfortable, then you should do what pleases you.

1. You should install BOTH sticks of ram first. Installing them one at a time is to check whether or not one of them is deffective. This step is a troubleshooting step useful only after a system is built, shown to not work, and then rebuilt outside of the case.

For dual channel, you'll probably need to place the ram one slot apart. The slots should be color-coded, and the manual will have a guide as to placement. It'll say something like "with two sticks, place one in slot 1, and the other in slot 3. The slots are typically color-coded so you would put one in let's say blue, and the other in the second same color slot.

2. Yes, the OS will recognize the video card. Typically, drivers will make it run a bit smoother (I assume), and allows you greater configurational options, but installing the drivers should come after the OS is up and running. You might want to goto Nvidia's website to download the absolute newest drivers, but whatever comes on the driver CD w/ the video card should be sufficient as well, or quite possiby even the newest drivers available.

3. If you think you need the fdd, install it. If not, you can always install it later on. In my first build, I put a fdd in, and two years later I removed it since it was taking up space and I have never used it once.

4. After it posts, it will say something like "press del to go to setup", or something of the sort. Press the appropriate button, and goto BIOS. On my Abit board, I had to goto the CPU configuration options b/c I kept getting a "recognizing new CPU" message every time I booted. Going to the page and confirming the options got rid of the error. Besides that, you'll want to confirm that the CPU is properly recognized and working at the frequency and front side bus speeds that you paid for.

Verify that the mobo recognizes the ram and ram speeds that you installed. You can check the BIOS for temps, but on a new build's first run, it's not going to be heavily taxed, so what you'll be seeing are your idle temps. You can take this time to go through the BIOS and examine the different options. Check to ensure that an optical drive is set at the first option in the "booting order" list. This way, the mobo will check to optical drive first, and your Windows CD will promptly run upon the next bootup. Later on, you can set the HD to boot first so that you have a slighly quicker startup.

As for turning the machine off, shortcircuit the same pins that you shorted to boot the system, BUT hold the screwdriver/shorting device there for a few seconds until the fans spin down and the lights turn off. This is why I recommend building the system first inside the case with most of the connections made. Proceed to assemble the system outside the case only if you are unable to get the system to Post.

And these are definitely not stupid questions.

[minsonngo]

1.) You can install one or how ever many you plan on putting in your system. Usually we tell people to install one at a time whenever there is a memory related issue so as to find out which stick is good and which one is bad.

If you want to run dual channel, you will need to install two identical sticks of memory onto a dual channel capable motherboard.

2.) If you install an aftermarket video card, the OS still should be able to boot and run fine with out the drivers installed. Now some of the display features may be limited until you install the drivers for the video adapter.

3.) FDD drives are pretty much obsolete and unnecessary. Butt its your computer, so if you have the need for one, go for it!

4.) Once it posts, there will be an option where you can press a particular key to enter the BIOS/CMOS setup. This is where you can monitor the temperatures, voltages, set the FSB speed, boot order, and more.

It is safe to short the power headers with a screw driver.

[jayb1234]

1: Set it up with one stick in Channel A slot 1, then add the other one in Dual Channel Symmetric (usualy Channel B slot 1)

2: It should boot ok without the card specific drivers. Check the manual for when and how to install the card's drivers.

3: That wouldn't hurt, and you might need it, check your manuals to see if anything needs to be loaded from a floppy during Windows setup.

4: Should be a bios page of some type. Not a bad idea to monitor the temp etc for a while, 5 or 10 minutes should be plenty if the temp is stable and not still rising. Yes you can just short the contacts, It will take a few seconds, like turning it off by holding the power button on the front of the case in. While you are in there check the boot order, you need the CD drive to be ahead of the hard drive, and maybe the floppy drive first(depends on if you need to use it or not). Factory default is likely to be Floppy-Cd-Hard drive.

Here is a pretty good guide to installing XP.

[minsonngo]

Be sure to read this before you build if you haven't already.

http://www.pcmech.com/byopc/index.htm

[blue60007]

You should ALWAYS test the board out of the case with core components (PSU, RAM, mobo, CPU, video). This way when you put the board in the case, and something doesn't work (using the same components as before) you already know the core parts work. Then you'd check connections, then I would say you have a short if you have all connections right (you put in an extra standoff between the case and the board, loose screw, etc). If you didn't test the main parts then you would have to take it back out, test again, find that there's a short (or not), fix the problem, then have to put it back in.

Chances are, if you do everything right, you shouldn't have a problem with installing everything in the case the first time, but if something goes wrong, you'll spend more time troubleshooting etc...

EDIT: Pssst, Jay, your link doesn't work anymore. They forgot to renew their domain.

[cop33]

Thanks guys. Very, very helpful.

[flanzig1]

One thing that I do when starting a build is to dry fit the mother board to the case to make sure that the mounting stand-offs are in the correct place and that there is the correct amount that the mobo recommends.

[cop33]

Well, let me know if this is appropriate to continue this thread or start a new one.
My son and I built up the basics on the mobo box this weekend and it POSTED! There was a little hair pulling for about half and hour while we tried to troubleshoot no signal to the monitor.Reseated the video card and ram. The led code on the mobo was not helping and I finally thought about clearing the CMOS memory. Mystery solved and it POSTED. Went into the BIOS and checked fan info and system temps. Everything looked good and we shut it down and have started to put it in the case.
While re-installing into the case I ran into a question.
I am using the Abit AW8D manual for hooking everything back up and it showed an aux 12 volt connector for the PCI express slots on the mobo. In my foggy memory I remembered the GT-7800 card needed 12v supplied to it. Well, I forgot about the 12v connector on the vid card itself and just hooked up the one on the mobo instead. The question is, is the 12v connection (for the PCI express slot)on the mobo sufficent for powering the video card or do I need to hook up 12v directly to the connection on the GT-7800 card? The reason I ask is the 12v connection on the mobo was a PITA to connect. It is squeezed in next to a daughter board and I"d have to take out the whole mobo to disconnect it! Your thoughts?

[blue60007]

If the card has a plug for a 6 pin PCI-e power plug, you need to have that plugged in. It's there for a reason.

Are talking about the plug on the card or is there another plug on the board?

[cop33]

Yep, there is another connector on the mobo. The manual states: "This connector provides an auxiliary power source for devices added on PCI Express slots". How about plugging both of them in? The one on the video card and leaving the one on the mobo? Would I be supplying 24 volts to the card?

[blue60007]

I see another connector down at the bottom of the board, is that it? I don't think it will hurt anything to plug it in. I think it's just a sumplimentary plug, and isn't necessarily necessary...you do have to have the one in the card plugged in. Since you've only got one card, I think you can do with out it. It might come in handy ify ou were running dual cards.

[cop33]

Great. Thanks for the quick reply, Blue!

[cop33]

I'm just finishing up installing everything into the case and will be firing it up tomorrow.

I have a few questions - there are 3) 80 mm fans on the side panel and I am wondering if each fan has to be powered by it's own power plug or can all 3 be daisy-chained and powered by just 1 power plug?

Also, I found a design shortcoming in the Aerocool Masstige case. The hdd cages are set on top of the power supply at a right angle to the front and back of the case. When you install the cables to the drive, there is not enough clearance for the case to be closed! So, I installed the hdd's in the front bay area. How do you think hdd airflow will be with the following layout?

starting with the top bay and going down -

Bay#1 fdd
Bay#2 DVD/CD burner
Bay#3 DVD/CD burner
Bay#4 empty
Bay#5 HDD#1
Bay#6 120 mm fan (takes up 3 bays)
Bay#7 120 mm fan (takes up 3 bays)
Bay#8 120 mm fan (takes up 3 bays)
Bay#9 HDD#2
Bay#10 empty

Thanks for your input.

[minsonngo]

They can be daisy chained but having them on their own direct power connector to the PSU is better practice. Max that I daisy chain, if I do, is two devices, but never with important components like the HDD. I think you will be okay just daisy chaining the case fans.

You drive setup looks fine to me.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Originally Posted by cop33 Also, I found a design shortcoming in the Aerocool Masstige case. The hdd cages are set on top of the power supply at a right angle to the front and back of the case. When you install the cables to the drive, there is not enough clearance for the case to be closed! So, I installed the hdd's in the front bay area. How do you think hdd airflow will be with the following layout?

Really? Did you try turning them around so you attach the cables through the back?

Otherwise if it really doesnt work out, then it would think it would be fine just sitting there as there is mesh in front of the hdd's. But I dunno, a lil airflow would always be good for the health and reliablilty for your hdd's. I mean I even noticed a 8c drop in temp by just placing a fan on top of the hdd, which says alot. If those hdd's are getting warmer then 40c I would definately thinkg of a better cooling solution. Such as a hardrive cage with a 120mm fan on the front of it that you can slip into your drive bays.
Such are made by thermaltake iDrive i think and a coolermaster one. Both take up 3 drive bays.

But if your temps are normal then I wouldnt worry. (<40c)

[cop33]

Thanks for the responses. Daisy chaining devices brings up another question. I'm using a PC Power and Cooling Turbo-cool 510 Express SLI Power Supply that has some multiple SATA power cables (i.e.-one cable, 3 sata power connectors on it.). I hooked up both hdd's to the one 3 connector cable. Is that all right?

I'll measure the total length of the hdd's with the power and data cables connected to see if I can put them in the original hdd cage. It would be the best place since I already have the 3 80mm fans positioned on the side panel right where the hdd's go.

[minsonngo]

That should be fine.