Another first build - help appreciated

[BruthamanQ]

First of all ... HOLY MONKEYS!!! I signed in and typed this out previously and when I submitted, it said I wasn't signed in. Deleted all I typed. Ugh. I'll be typing everything in Word first from now on

Wanted to build a gaming PC. Xbox 360 disappointed me ...

Did my research, read a few how to guides, purchased my goods and got started.

ABIT KN8 SLI Pro 939
Athlon 64 3500+
GEIL Performance RAM 2x1GB
ULTRA 550w PSU
2 – XFX 6800 GT Xtreme

Got everything together. Cleared CMOS, connected power and powered up. All fans go, all appropriate LEDs light up (mobo and case) according to manuals, but no beep and no display. Did troubleshooting research, determined I must have a faulty component, I took it all apart and started over.

Ruled out RAM since it works in my current desktop. I installed just one module this time. Ruled out video cards by probability. What are the chances both would be faulty? Right? Right? Yeah? Installed just one with the shadow card this time. That leaves the CPU or the motherboard. Installed the CPU and tried again. Same result. Tried other video card by itself. Same result. Tried one last thing. Installed CPU, but not the heatsink. (I know, risky). Connected fan to CPU fan header and powered up. I wanted to see if the CPU was generating any heat. It is not.

Short of buying a “test” CPU, how do I test this thing? How about the motherboard? I can troubleshoot Audis and VWs, but I’m lost on this. Go figure.

[glc]

Don't rule out the power supply. Ultra's quality control is lousy and NONE of their units are SLI-certified.

Use this troubleshooting procedure:

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=132409

[GraemeM]

Are you sure the CPU fan is starting?

I have an Ultra PSU and sometimes it starts up all case LEDS and fans, but the computer doesn't POST and the CPU fan doesn't start. This problem can also cause rnadom shutdowns (the computer shuts down but case lights and everything stay on)

The problem is the motherboard power connector (20 pin one or whatever) is plugged in, but not qutie tight enough. Unplug it and plug it back in with some force.

and glc, for people hating Ultra PSUs so much, someone really needs to change that power supply buying guide

[glc]

We did.

[I Dont Konow]

nevermind

[minsonngo]

I agree with what the others said. Sounds like a PSU issue to me. What model of the Ultra PSU do you have???

[GraemeM]

Originally Posted by glc We did.

I love how it went from one of the bolded blue (top of the line) to bad

also there is still the note underneath saying how they are very high quality.

[BruthamanQ]

It is an Ultra X2 Connect. It is SLI certified...

http://www.ultraproducts.com/product...&productID=407

... unless they are using nVIDIA's logo without permission. Yes, the cpu fan does start up with the rest of them.

Didn't think of the power supply ... so I took the last half hour and transplanted the Ultra into the PC I'm on right now. Seems like the PSU is fine. Any other suggestions? Thanks.

[BruthamanQ]

Okay, made an inch of progress. Although the manual makes nary a mention of it, there is a small square 4 pin power connector next to the CPU socket on the motherboard. Went through the manual and it doesn't say anywhere specifically to connect this. Only shows the 20pin being connected.

Grabbed the matching connector, connected, powered up and the CPU started to warm up. Quickly shut down, re-installed the heatsink with some "silver", cleared CMOS and gave it another go. Still no beep (shouldn't there be at least one?) and no display. The motherboard did seem to be coming up to temp. The sinks over the NBridge and SBridge warmed slightly, as did the CPU sink and the RAM. Again, tried both Video cards.

My monitor only has a VGA connection. My cards are DVI. I have two adapters. Tried them both.

Should I now suspect the motherboard?

[minsonngo]

I think for your particular board, you will need a ATX 2.0 PSU with the 24 pin or the 20+4 pin main PSU connector. This connector needs to be connected to the motherboard. The extra 4 pins provide dedicated power to the PCI-E slots. This probably is your problem then since you say your main PSU connector only has 20 pins.

EDIT: Just looked at the specs for the PSU you have and it DOES have a 20+4 main PSU connector. You need to make sure to connect all 24 pins from the main PSU connector to the 24-pin main PSU socket on the motherboard. There should also be a 4 pin square ATX12V connector from the PSU that goes to the "small square 4 pin power connector" you were referring to next to the CPU socket.

[BruthamanQ]

My apologies, the connector is actually a 24 pin, not a 20. The PSU connector is an exact match for the motherboard. Sorry for the confusion.

The 4 pin PCI-E connector you are referring to is down at the bottom of the board next to the PCI express slots. Not the same connector as the one next to the socket. The one next to the socket, the 4 pins are configured in a square pattern. The PCI-E connector at the bottom is more rectangular, with the pins in a straight row.

EDIT: Correct on the connections. Not sure of the difference between a 24 pin or a 20+4pin, or if they're the same, but no matter. I have them both connected to the board now and there are no open pin slots on the motherboard. The only difference it's making is the components are warming up, but still no display.

[minsonngo]

I guess the components are warming up because they are getting more power running through them now. I could be wrong though.

Have you tried resetting the CMOS/BIOS now?


24 pin = 20+4 pin (Its usually a 24 pin connector with a removable 4 pin so the connector can become 20 pin and fit in older motherboards that take the PSU ATX 1.x standard).

[BruthamanQ]

Ok, I looked closer and I can see how the connector comes apart and is a 20+4. Ok, well all 24 pins are in.

Yep, reset CMOS several times in this process. Power off, cord disconnected from the PSU, move jumper over, count to ten, move jumper back. No love. Just can't get past thinking the motherboard is the weak link. I handled it very carefully and always wore the ESD wrist band, so I can't imagine I did anything wrong with it.

[BruthamanQ]

Thanks for everyone's help up to this point. I'm going to go at it for a bit, see if I can find anything definitive. Otherwise, I'll RMA this board just to rule it out, since I really have no way to tell if it is bad.

[jayb1234]

The RAM working in the other machine doesn't completely rule it out as the source of the problem. It might not be compatible with the motherboard. What specific RAM is it?

[minsonngo]

Could be a dead board or CPU, only way really to tell is to replace it.

[BruthamanQ]

Originally Posted by jayb1234 The RAM working in the other machine doesn't completely rule it out as the source of the problem. It might not be compatible with the motherboard. What specific RAM is it?

It is GEIL memory and is listed with ABIT as a compatible memory manufacturer.

http://www.abit-usa.com/memory/

[GraemeM]

Originally Posted by BruthamanQ Ok, I looked closer and I can see how the connector comes apart and is a 20+4. Ok, well all 24 pins are in. Yep, reset CMOS several times in this process. Power off, cord disconnected from the PSU, move jumper over, count to ten, move jumper back. No love. Just can't get past thinking the motherboard is the weak link. I handled it very carefully and always wore the ESD wrist band, so I can't imagine I did anything wrong with it.

it's fairly difficult to shock a component, if you were wearing a wrist band it's doubtful that's the problem

Originally Posted by minsonngo Could be a dead board or CPU, only way really to tell is to replace it.

Originally Posted by jayb1234 The RAM working in the other machine doesn't completely rule it out as the source of the problem. It might not be compatible with the motherboard. What specific RAM is it?

but anything other than the board would give him POST errors. Check if the board gives beeps (in which case connect the PC speaker to the mobo) or if it gives audio messages (in which case connect speakers or headphones to the green audio out on the motherboard)

[minsonngo]

Originally Posted by GraemeM but anything other than the board would give him POST errors. Check if the board gives beeps (in which case connect the PC speaker to the mobo) or if it gives audio messages (in which case connect speakers or headphones to the green audio out on the motherboard)

Partially true, but not always the case. If the PSU was dead or faulty, usually there are not any beep codes. I have also worked with a few boards, one was an AOpen one if I recall, where either the CPU or memory were dead and there were no beep codes either (and the case speaker was hooked up to the mobo). I think it just depends on how the BIOS/CMOS is setup.

[BruthamanQ]

Went to Barnes and Noble, picked up the first book I saw on PC building and in 5 sentences had the solution to my problem.

Paraphrasing:

"After all the connections have been made and double checked, power up the system. We enter CMOS by repeatedly pushing ESC or DEL when we power up the first time."

First I laughed, then I cried. Then I came home and punched the heavy bag for 15 minutes. I'm all showered up and back on this awesome forum.

I never pushed ESC or DEL to enter CMOS upon power up. Even though I have jumped into my current PC's BIOS a hundred times to tweak small settings, it never occured to me that on a new build, you'd have to push keys on the keyboard to get the CMOS screen to come up. Maybe I'm asking too much, but I am new to this, so perhaps Mobo makers could put a blurb in the manual. Nowhere in the manual does it mention this. Not one place.

The freakin' thing is alive now.

I pray the God of PCs and his acolytes on this site find mercy upon me, for I feel truly stupid and that should be punishment enough.

[minsonngo]

Usually the post screen will tell you what to press to enter the CMOS/BIOS setup. Yours didn't or it flashed by too quickly maybe?

Either way, the motherboard manual will show you how to do it usually too.

EDIT: Page 51 of 104 in the online motherboard manual for your board tells you to press DELETE to enter the BIOS setup.

[BruthamanQ]

My LCD screen likes to show the logo first when it senses an incoming signal. The time it spends reminding me it's a SAMSUNG may have been blocking out the little message you are speaking of. Stupid monitor. Actually, I love the monitor. Stupid user errors.

Edit: I looked through my hard copy manual again and couldn't find anything. Downloaded the one from the website and the format differs slightly from the one out of the box. Indeed it does say to press DEL to enter setup. Either way, I should have and certainly will know from here on out.

Thanks minsonngo! And Graeme, Jayb and everyone else too!

[minsonngo]

LOL, I'm glad were able to remedy your problem though. Sometimes the simplest solution is all you need.