At wits end...(First Build Troubles)

[rem523]

So far from what I've read alot of you experienced guys have worked wonders with peoples problems and I hope you can do the same with me. Here's my build...

Motherboard:ASUS P5B Socket T (LGA 775) Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

Processor: Intel Pentium D 915 Presler 800MHz FSB LGA 775 Processor Model BX80553915 - Retail

Memory: pqi TURBO 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)

Video Card: Recertified eVGA 256-P2-N562-RX Geforce 7900GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail

Case: APEVIA (ASPIRE) X-Pider ATXA2XPW-AL/500 Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ATX 500W Daul12V (V2.03) Power Supply - Retail (PSU is Turbolink)

Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200KSRTL 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - Retail

and a CD/DVD rom/RW drive.

Here's my problem...
I have everything in my case, CPU in mobo, heatsink/fan attached to motherboard, RAM installed and GPU in the PCI x16 slot. The CD drive in the IDE slot and the HDD in the 3.0 gb sata slot. I'm assuming that everything is good to go except when I plug in the monitor, keyboard, and power and hit the switch, all the lights built in to my case go on and all the fans (including the CPU) go on but the monitor stays as if it were it power saving mode and nothing appears for about 7 to 10 seconds before the machine powers off on its own.

I cannot shut off the power before it does it by itself by using the soft switch, and the only problem I experienced during the build was when some of the preplaced thermal gel/gunk/whatever on the heatsink/fan became stuck to the top of the CPU. I guessed that this was bad and the heatsink should only rest above, not on, the CPU. Using rubbing alcohol and paper towels I gently removed the substance. The heatsink seems to lock in securely now without getting anymore of the stuff on the CPU.

I've already tried resetting the CMOS as suggested by other threads by removing the battery for a couple of seconds but have not attempted the out of case build. Are there any other possibilities before I try this? I'd like to get a few thoughts before I call it a night and attempt that tomorrow morning... Thanks alot guys I hope you can help.

EDIT: Also there are no beeps or anything, no strange clunking/scratching sounds coming from the case and if anything it seems quieter than my current PC which is a older P4 1.8ghz 256mb mem an old GPU.

[tempus]

The cpu may be overheating and shutting down the system.
Recheck how the heatsink is supposed to attach to the cpu because, from the description you gave, it sounds as though some thermal pad material is missing and needs to be replaced.
Also the powersupply you are using is on the non-recommended list.
As many others in theis forum have emphasized, get a quality supply from the recommended list.
Something like an Antec, Fortron, etc. And if you are still having troubles try an out of the box build to eliminate any possibility of a short circuit to the case.

[minsonngo]

Here is the link to the PSU (Turbolink is NOT a good PSU brand) list tempus was referring to: http://www.forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195

If the PSU is not the issue, it could be incompatitble memory. It would be best to get something on the QVL list here: http://www.asus.com/999/download/pro...79/1179_10.pdf


Just make sure you do the normal spot check too. Double check and make sure you have everything configured and installed correctly. Make sure all of your cables are hooked up. Both the main 24-pin PSU and the 4-pin square ATX12V cable is connected to the motherboard. If needed, just reseat everything just to be sure.

Make sure your processor is installed right, heatsink and fan are securely locked in on top of the processor.

Double check and make sure there is nothing shorting or grounding the motherboard such as loose screws, un-used motherboard standoffs, loose power cables and the like. That is why it is best to hook up the main components OUTSIDE of the case and see if it will POST first.

Last resort is to start swapping out parts until it fixes your problem, the PSU, motherboard, and processor (in this order) is a good place to start based on your symptoms. But this is a last resort when everything else did not work. You could try leaving the system on for a while, then come back and touch the heatsink and see if it is warm. If it is NOT warm, then you can assume that either the motherboard or CPU is bad.

[rjfvillarosa]

Originally Posted by rem523 and the only problem I experienced during the build was when some of the preplaced thermal gel/gunk/whatever on the heatsink/fan became stuck to the top of the CPU. I guessed that this was bad and the heatsink should only rest above, not on, the CPU. Using rubbing alcohol and paper towels I gently removed the substance. The heatsink seems to lock in securely now without getting anymore of the stuff on the CPU..

Did you remove the thermal pad completely from both the processor and the heatsink? if so you should have got another thermal pad and installed it or at the very least used a little thermal compound.

[FLG]

Also if you did remove all of the themal pad and dont buy a replacement pad from intel, your warranty is shot.

[rem523]

I only removed the thermal pad that was no longer on the heatsink itself as it had rubbed onto the processor. It was about a fifth of the total substance. Right now I'm going to try to unhook everything and start from scratch. Thanks for the tips, I'll come back after I've tried a little bit more.

EDIT: I just removed the motherboard, and realized that I had used two different lengths of screws to secure it in place. This time I am going to use the shorter of the two lengths, and I will be sure that the clamps of the CPU heatsink/fan are secure.

[minsonngo]

Let us know how it goes.

[rjfvillarosa]

Originally Posted by rem523 EDIT: I just removed the motherboard, and realized that I had used two different lengths of screws to secure it in place. This time I am going to use the shorter of the two lengths, and I will be sure that the clamps of the CPU heatsink/fan are secure.

Try the "out of case" build first.

[rem523]

I tried the "out of case" build and almost the same exact thing happened, except this time instead of shutting off on its own, I had to flip the switch to turn it off. I supplied the neccessary 24 pin and extra 4 pin power to the motherboard, my graphics card needs power, and I plugged the CPU/heatsink fan into the necessary 4 pin on the motherboard. Both the CPU fan and the GFX card fan went on and afterwards when I powered down the CPU fan/heatsink was warm/hot. The ram was cool to the touch as was the gfx card. I am 99.99% certain that the RAM is installed correctly, the heatsink is securely attached, CPU is installed right, and the graphics card is in the PCIx16 slot. Also the DVI - VGA converter is secure and my monitor cable is secured into that and it still acts as if it were power saving. Am I idiot and doing something wrong, or do I have a dud?

EDIT: lol "Am I idiot", how ironic.

[minsonngo]

See of you can get a stick of memory from the QVL list and see if the system will POST with only it installed. Don't know, but your board may be picky on what kind of memory it will take.

QVL list: http://usa.asus.com/100/download/pro...79/1179_10.pdf

[rem523]

I mean even if the memory isnt on there, shouldn't it still work as long as its DDR2 and 800Mhz or whatever is required for the board? This aggravates me so much, to believe that everything is perfect and have nothing work. I mean I doubt that missing just a slight bit of the thermal padding would prevent from getting any output. I removed the CPU fan and now see that the thermal pad has now deformed from square to circular and more of it has rubbed off onto the CPU. I'm not sure if this from running the computer or from pushing down too hard in trying to secure the heatsink/fan.

[minsonngo]

It SHOULD work. But the thing with newer technology is it can still be buggy or picky on what it is compatible with.

If you read the reviews on your board, some people are having trouble with memory modules not on the QVL list too.

My suggestion was just something you can try out. It looks like everything else was already covered. Either that or you have a bad PSU, motherboard, or processor (in that order). Only way you could find out is swapping out the parts one by one.

[rem523]

Thanks alot, sorry to sound so rude but I guess I'm just angry... Thanks for the help.

[minsonngo]

No problem, don't worry about it, I understand that your frustrated right now. I do the same thing sometimes too.

[rem523]

In the user manual for the P5B ASUS mobo, it says "This motherboard does not support memory modules made up of 128 MB chips or double sided x16 memory modules." Does my RAM fall into that category?

Here is my own pic for reference: Click

[Computer Hobbyist]

I am not sure, but I think you might have fried your CPU. You keep rubbing the thermal material off. It is supposed to form a connection between the heatsink and the CPU. Rubbing it off, no matter how careful you are, means the CPU is not getting the proper connection it needs to the heatsink. The thermal pad is designed to provided exactly the right amount of contact.

Frankly once I install the heatsink to the processor, I rarely, if ever, take it off. At least not until I am ready to replace the heatsink.

Of course I might be wrong, and some of the others around here might have better ideas, but reading all of your posts, removing the thermal material seems to be the only thing out of the ordinary.

Take a look at step 6 of Build Your Own PC by David Risley. You will find it here

[rem523]

I know I didn't realize that immediately, but the fraction of the thermal pad I rubbed off is less than 1/5, probably more like 1/8 of the stuff. I had assumed that it was supposed to stay on the heat sink, but with further reading I learned it is supposed to melt onto the CPU top. At first when I first booted up, it powered off by itself, now after removing the 1/8 of it, it stays on until I turn off the entire system. Is that evident of a fry?

[Computer Hobbyist]

Here is a quote from Drisley. "It should be kept in mind, though, that if you are using a heat sink which has been used before and had a heat pad, that heat pad is now likely melted in the spot where the previous processor contacted it. In these cases, you cannot use the heat pad again as it will be ineffective."

The first boot up indicates you had a second problem. Probably something to do with the memory seating or something easily fixed. I haven't got the machine to tell me if you have fried your CPU. As I recall the normal order to check such failures is the one Minnosogo indicates above. Of course, you are getting power, so the PSU is probably ok but checking it is cheapest. The Motherboard has more things to go wrong, so checking it makes good sense. CPUs are not bad that often and are the most expensive so checking it last is normal. Find a friend with the same processor. Swap his out and see if you processor boots up his machine. If it does, you know the processor is good. Put his back carefully. I would suggest you put a new thermal pad on the CPU before you do. Don't turn the machine on again until you have removed all of the old thermal compound on the CPU and replace it with new.

[FLG]

CH, im gonna have to doubt he fried the chip. And intel CPU will shut down before burning up..even with no HS on. I would look at the QVL for memory which is in the manual, go to a local comp store and buy a new stick and try it. If it works and you got it for a good price, then keep it...if it dosent work or you had to overpay, then just return it.

If you look, it shows only 2 companies on the QVL that use 1024 MB sticks. To me it shows that the mobo might be a little iffy with those size modules.

[suitcase]

Remove the heatsink/fan and scrape the pad off with a credit card. Finish cleaning it with rubbing alcohol and q-tips or soft rag. Get some artic silver compound and squirt about a b-b size ball on the processor. Use a piece of plastic wrap on your finger to spread it on the processor until you have a very thin, even coating on it. Reinstall the heatsink/fan and make sure to plug the fan in.

[rem523]

I'm going to have to go tomorrow to a nearby store and look for a QVL approved one. I'm in the NYC area too, FLG, would places like Circuit City, Best Buy, or CompUSA be the best places to look? I ordered all my parts off of newegg but theres no way I can stand waiting another 3-4days this is just too frustrating. This is driving me crazy...

[FLG]

Yes, they should..though they might charge an arm and a leg so newegg might be the way to go. You might as well try it, if it dosent work you can just simply return it and get all your money back.

Maybe im missing it, but i cant find it in your posts...is the power connector connected to your video card? Speaking of power connectors your really gonna want to replace your PSU either way, Antec makes a good psu for 80$.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103931

[Computer Hobbyist]

Originally Posted by FLG CH, im gonna have to doubt he fried the chip. And intel CPU will shut down before burning up..even with no HS on. I would look at the QVL for memory which is in the manual, go to a local comp store and buy a new stick and try it. If it works and you got it for a good price, then keep it...if it dosent work or you had to overpay, then just return it.

I think you might be right about frying the chip. Unlike the old days modern Intel CPUs will shut down before they burn themselves up. (I know all about burning up a CPU. I proved it could be done early.) That said he hasn't yet correctly installed thermal paste. Until he does we won't know. The CPU could simply be turning itself of off in self-defense. Thermal paste is cheaper than a memory stick.

Your analysis of the original problem sounds right.

[rem523]

My video card takes a 3-pin power cord like a HDD or CD drive would except instead of 4 its 3 pins, and it routes that into a 6-pin which plugs into the card itself. The fan is running on the video card, I took that as indication it was OK with the power it was getting. Is the CPU that sensitive that removing that little of the thermal pad has that great of an effect? Looking at it now, it seems I wouldn't be able to tell the difference...

Also I tried booting it up with the memory not fully secured, and it gave me a repeating long beep - short-short, it went back to the normal blank screen after securing it correctly...

EDIT: From the quick look that I've taken at those stores online sites and their pick up in store policy, its just as easy to go through newegg, price-wise along with its greater selection.

[FLG]

CH, origionally yes it did seem like the problem. Though if you look at post #17 he does state that he now has to manually turn the computer off. He simply might have not had the HS properly mounted. Now that its not turning off by itself, it seems that it isnt a heat issue.

And like it said, if he does get a new themal pad...i would recommend buying from intel to maintain the warranty.

Edit: rem523, definatly go with another PSU and if you want we can go from there.

[rem523]

Is it wrong to plug a male 4 pin power cord into a female 3 pin? In the female 3 pin there is enough room for the 4th pin and it just sits there without having any apparent interference.

I've seen that many consider the Turbolink 500W a PSU that isn't top of the line, but my DVD drive opens and closes, the light on my mobo goes green, CPU fan runs and two of the four case fans that I have powered run. Would it be more efficient to get a new PSU first or a QVL memory stick first? I guess in reality it would do better to upgrade both, the PSU can always be upgraded to an Antec or whatever, and if I get a new mem stick that works than great, but I built this PC on a budget and I was hoping to stick with it, and I would still like to keep costs down, but I'll try whatever has to be done.

[Computer Hobbyist]

At post #17 Rem 532 said.

"At first when I first booted up, it powered off by itself, now after removing the 1/8 of it, it stays on until I turn off the entire system. Is that evident of a fry?"

If the only difference was scraping off the thermal past between "it powered off itself" and "it stays on until I turn off the entire system" what makes you think the problem isn't related to scraping off the thermal pad? By asking this question, I am perfectly aware that there could be another issue. I just don't know enough about this processor to know what it is.

Edit. No, you don't want to connect a 4 pin male power connector into a thee pin female connector. At least I don't.

[FLG]

Because earlier he stated he took the pad off the processor, not the HS. So i believe there is still pad left on the HS. And why it works is because it wasent mounted correctly to begin with. Either way i will agree with you do replace the pad.

Also the 3 pin thing is fine, the card has an adapter that goes to a normal molex connector like any other device though it only uses 3 wires hence only 3 pins.

The PSU is just of cheap quality and might not be supplying the correct amount of voltage to your devices. Also cheap PSU's tend to die and take components with them.

[rem523]

I guess I'll try to clear this up as best as I can...

The first time I booted up the machine, it stayed on for about 6 - 10 seconds before it powered off on its own. The whole while my monitor had no input, either staying in power saving mode or check input cable. The input cable is secure as it could be. I tried it around 3 times with all the same results. After that I took the mobo out of the case, at which point I realized that the CPU heatsink/fan was not applied correctly, as only 3 of the 4 'securers' were pressed down fully, the fourth being halfway down. I removed it, and at which point I saw that a little bit of the thermal pad, a tiny amount of the square, had transferred itself onto the CPU. According to the intel guide that came with my processor, it said under no circumstance should I touch the thermal pad on the heatsink. Thinking that I had accidently pressed too hard when I first tried to secure the heatsink, I thought that made the heatsink came in contact with the CPU and rubbed off on it. Since the intel guide said that no one should touch it, I also assumed that this meant the CPU. Fearing for the CPU and the heatsink, I used rubbing alcohol and paper towels to remove the portion on the CPU.

It was only after this, after I read more on the topic, that I learned this is the proper thing to do. The thermal pad should melt when heated, forming the necessary layer to reduce the temperature of the CPU. This is when I did the out-of-case boot, except now instead of turning off on its own, I needed to flip the hard switch to turn it off as the soft switch on the case was not hooked up. (I powered on by using a screwdriver and the correct pins.) The same thing results now when the heatsink is fully attached and all the components are in the case.

[Computer Hobbyist]

FLG, thanks, I learned something tonight. As my name indicates, I am just a hobbyist.