New build - Multi Monitor Workstation

[MichaelApproved]

I'm trying to build a new 4 monitor pc. I have experience with reconfiguring servers/workstations. It’s been easy in the past, call Dell or who ever sold the device and order compatible parts. The rest is easy as Lego. This is the first time I’m building a box from scratch and I don’t know what’s compatible with what and which is the latest vs obsolete. I’m sure I’m repeating what this forums mission statement is so let me get started:

This is going to be an application workstation (Word/Web/programming/poker/some video editing (just compressing or single tasks)/some gaming.

Processor – I’m ok with the pent4 3.0 w/HT. I don’t want a dual core processor because single thread applications only end up using half the speed.

Motherboard – I have a sound card and video card I could use so I’d rather not have it built on board (only leads to trouble). I’m on a 100mb network so I don’t need a faster network card built on.

My primary question is which model motherboard/cpu would work for me? If I get the type of motherboard and cpu that would make sense I SHOULD be able to take it from there.

The rest of the computer will look like:

RAM - 1 gig memory probably broken into two 512
HD - 1 @ 80gigs or so. No RAID option needed -I’m not sure I fully understand the new options (What ever happened to IDE ). What are the differences in ATA drives?
Video - I already have an ATI FireMV 2400 video card (4 monitors CAN’T WAIT! )
OS -I’ll probably put xp pro on it or 2003 standard, still undecided.
Keyboard/mouse/monitor USB and DVI. Already taken care of, collecting dust
CD/DVD - I have a DVD burner here in another box and I’ll probably just use that.

Thanks to everyone in advance for any help!

[newbuilder14]

Originally Posted by MichaelApproved Processor – I’m ok with the pent4 3.0 w/HT. I don’t want a dual core processor because single thread applications only end up using half the speed.

I don't think that's true. I just think that the single core programs [edit, whoops] cannot take full advantage of both cores. I would think of it this way. If a dual core processor was 2.0ghz, I'd really think of it as 2 x 2.0ghz. I really think you should go with a dual core processor. Pretty soon single cores will be obsolete, because quad cores will be out.

In your situation, I'd look at the Intel Core 2 Duo e6300/6400/6600. Anyone of those processors is considered top of the line now, and PC World calls it, "The fastest processor we've tested (Core 2 Duo Extreme 6800)". In fact, the e6300 is only $208 on Zipzoomfly.com.

[Alaron]

Correct, dual core CPUs running one application will still run that app at full speed.

You will not find a motherboard without sound built-in. Installing a card will turn it off, so no worries. Motherboards have built in NICs, and even the Gigabit ones are still compatible with 100mpbs.

I agree that the Core 2 Duos are excellent CPUs right now.

I would go for a large hard drive, simply because the price per gigabyte is best around 250GB. Be sure to get one that is SATA and has a 16mb cache.

The most important question, what is your budget?

[MichaelApproved]

Originally Posted by newbuilder14 I don't think that's true. I just think that the dual core processor's cannot take full advantage of both cores. I would think of it this way. If a dual core processor was 2.0ghz, I'd really think of it as 2 x 2.0ghz. I really think you should go with a dual core processor. Pretty soon single cores will be obsolete, because quad cores will be out. In your situation, I'd look at the Intel Core 2 Duo e6300/6400/6600. Anyone of those processors is considered top of the line now, and PC World calls it, "The fastest processor we've tested (Core 2 Duo Extreme 6800)". In fact, the e6300 is only $208 on Zipzoomfly.com.

I have a dual core processor in one of my servers and i can see the system performance maxed at exactly 50%. I always thought of say a 2.0ghz dual processor as 2x 0.95ghz processors. Am i wrong about my understanding? Thats a good sub topic. $208 though, damn thats cheap!

If i do go with that processor, what type of motherboard do i look for? It has to be compatible with which chipset and socket type.

[Alaron]

That is incorrect. The reason it shows up as 50% is because only one core is being utilized. But the app is still running at full speed on that core. A more correct way of thinking is that you have two 2Ghz CPUs.

Simply put, even if you have a single threaded application, meaning one that only uses 1 core, it will still run at full speed on a single core.

Dual core chips are the new standard. Buying a single core now would only limit you, now and more so down the road.

Don't forget that as time goes on, more and more applications will take advantage of dual cores.

Asus makes top quality motherboards, but to help you spec out a system, a budget is very helpful.

[MichaelApproved]

Originally Posted by Alaron Correct, dual core CPUs running one application will still run that app at full speed. You will not find a motherboard without sound built-in. Installing a card will turn it off, so no worries. Motherboards have built in NICs, and even the Gigabit ones are still compatible with 100mpbs. I agree that the Core 2 Duos are excellent CPUs right now. I would go for a large hard drive, simply because the price per gigabyte is best around 250GB. Be sure to get one that is SATA and has a 16mb cache. The most important question, what is your budget?

Ah budget! good question. I'm hoping for like 700 since i have the vcard/os/keyboard/mouse monitors already.

I understand about the onboard nics. no choice except that i only want one. I'm going to try to keep the motherboard simple if it saves money. if it's all the same then it doesn't matter of course.

As for the hard drive. space doesn't matter for me so much, i have a box with a bunch of space in it so i'll save money on the drive if i can.

[glc]

Please note that the FireMV is not a good gaming card. It's a 2D-optimized workstation card.

[MichaelApproved]

Originally Posted by glc Please note that the FireMV is not a good gaming card. It's a 2D-optimized workstation card.

Right this is mainly going to be a business computer.

[newbuilder14]

Well for motherboards I like these two:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813121016
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131025

[MichaelApproved]

Originally Posted by newbuilder14 Well for motherboards I like these two: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813121016 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131025

Those are two good motherboards but have way more options then what i'm looking for. I'm trying to keep the motherboard simple and cheap.

[MichaelApproved]

I think i'm going to go with a faster non dual core cpu. I looked at most of the apps i'm running and right now i'm only going to get half the power i paid for if i go for dual. When applications come out that use the dual core more i can upgrade then for that use

So if i go for a single core cpu is intel the best choice?
What is the diff between Cedar Mill Prescott? From what i saw Cedar Mill is newer?
What is the diff between LGA 775 Socket 478?

The chips on this page are in my price range and seem to make sense for me

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ubcategory=343


thanks again

[glc]

If you really do want an Intel single core, Cedar Mill is the one to get, it's made on the 65nm process and runs cooler than any other P4's since the old Socket 478 Northwoods.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131538
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813121288

Bios update may be required to use a Cedar Mill.

[MichaelApproved]

I'm so frustrated! I just remembered that intel HT does the same thing as Duo. If the app isn't multithreaded its going to only use half cpu power, I really hate that. Does AMD do the same thing?

If not, can someone please list the fastest AMD cpu and MB that is priced under $300 together?

I've been using Intel my whole life and have no idea about AMD's modeling system or speed comparison


arg

[minsonngo]

Here are a couple of suggestions LESS than 300 bucks. Socket 939 or AM2. Both are good, AM2 is the future, but it is somewhat buggy right now so you may want to take that into consideration.

*****Socket 939:

ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131517
$104.99

&

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester 2000MHz HT 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Dual Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103547
$181.00



*****Socket AM2

ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131013
$139.99

&

AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2000MHz HT 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103735
$149.00

[MichaelApproved]

Originally Posted by minsonngo Here are a couple of suggestions LESS than 300 bucks. Socket 939 or AM2. Both are good, AM2 is the future, but it is somewhat buggy right now so you may want to take that into consideration. *****Socket 939: ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131517 $104.99 & AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester 2000MHz HT 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Dual Core Processor - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103547 $181.00 *****Socket AM2 ASUS M2N-SLI Deluxe Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131013 $139.99 & AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Windsor 2000MHz HT 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Dual Core Processor - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103735 $149.00

I'm trying to avoid Dual core CPU's because of their limitation with single threaded applications. Is there a good single core single threaded (i don't want any kind of hyperthreading tech) AMD chip?

[glc]

Processor: AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego 2000MHz HT Socket 939 Processor Model ADA4000BNBOX - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103529

Motherboard: ASUS A8N-E Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131530

Take the money left over from that $300 and get 2 gigs of ram.

CORSAIR ValueSelect 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM Unbuffered DDR 400 (PC 3200) System Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145579

[minsonngo]

Sorry, I didn't realize that.

Here are my suggestions for SINGLE core AMD processors. You can use the same motherboards I listed in the previous post.

Socket 939:

AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego 2000MHz HT 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103529
$135.00

Socket AM2:
AMD Athlon 64 3800+ Orleans 2000MHz HT 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103631
$108.00

[glc]

Why spend the money on a SLI board when it's going to have an ATI FireMV in it? You could even save more and get an A8N5X.

I'd rather have a 1mb cache 939 than a 512kb cache AM2.

[MichaelApproved]

OK i'm almost ready to order. Does this all make sense?


Sunbeam Transformer IC-TR-BA Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16811166004
Model #: IC-TR-BA
Item #: N82E16811166004
$72.99

ASUS A8N5X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16813131569
Model #: A8N5X
Item #: N82E16813131569
$79.99

AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego 2000MHz HT Socket 939 Processor Model ADA4000BNBOX - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16819103529
Model #: ADA4000BNBOX
Item #: N82E16819103529
$135.00

CORSAIR ValueSelect 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model VS2GBKIT400C3 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16820145579
Model #: VS2GBKIT400C3
Item #: N82E16820145579
$192.99

Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3250824AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/product/produc...82E16822148111
Model #: ST3250824AS
Item #: N82E16822148111
$74.99

Subtotal: $555.96

Will this hard drive be ok even though i don't have a 3g/s MB?

I like the case because it has the side window and seems to have enough fans. Is there a better option with side window?

I'm missing a good PSU, any suggestions? I think i'm going to need 450, am i right?

[minsonngo]

Looking good there buddy.

You fine with the HDD. It will just run at 1.5 Gb/s.

Here is a pretty nice PSU for a good price:

XCLIO XClio 450BL ATX 450W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, CUL, TUV, CB, VDE, FIMKO, DEMKO, NEMKO, SEMKO - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817189003
$43.99

[MichaelApproved]

ok i'm ordering the system above except i changed the case to

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811144133

and they were out of the 7200.9 hd so i went for the 7200.10 with Perpendicular Recording. i know its a new tech but i figure why not gamble with the item that holds all my data...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148144

I'm placing the order now. I'll keep an eye on this thread just in case you guys think the case or hard drive isn't a good idea.

I must have spent over 12 hours just looking around for the parts and many more i'm sure setting it up. This thing is going to cost less then buying a premade one from Dell but I could have spent that time working and earning the difference in price. That being said i'm still happy i'm building this sucker myself. Putting it together and everyday I use it will feel great!

I'll let you guys know how it all comes together once i get and install everything.

[minsonngo]

Good luck!

[MichaelApproved]

Mother F ... ather

I put everything together and plugged it ready and waiting i hear

BEEEEEEEEEEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP

removed EVERYTHING but the ram which i have two of (tried many different combinations, my best shot at testing the RAM. When it was loading with no ram i heard different beeps). Fans, LEDs and the standby light on the mb work.

My video card is FireMV 2400 which is a multi display card. I'm not sure if that could be the problem when i removed it it still beeped the same way. Could a system boot without a monitor? Sadly this mb doesn't have an on board video card and i don't have an extra one for testing.

ARG right now the only thing plugged in is the RAM, no drives or even kvm items. Could it be that i got two bad RAM cards?

at least the pc speaker is working .. heh

[MichaelApproved]

i noticed that the keyboard responds. how well i don't know but i think i can enter the bios blind (smacking DEL a bunch of times) and press F10 + Enter and the system reboots. Alt + Ctl + Del seems to do the same thing. I'm going to assume that it means my RAM works and that its a problem with video card.

i'm going to try this card in another machine

[minsonngo]

What is the pattern of beeps you are hearing?

You can use this website to determine what the beep codes mean: http://bioscentral.com/

[blue60007]

Did you do the out-of-case build first?

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=132409

[MichaelApproved]

both Asus and ATI say its probably a bad video card.

I bought this machine because dell told me the reason the card wouldn't work in my other box was because it's not suppose to work with it. If that isn't true and its because its just a bad card i'm going to be so pissed.

RMAing the card now, will update later.

[minsonngo]

Let us know how the new card works out.

[MichaelApproved]

YES YES YES! I returned my vcard to Dell (I really hate dell again) and got a new one ($75 cheaper) from AtomicPark.com (2 days early). I plugged it in and bam everything works! I'm installing everything now and moving all my old settings.

YES YES YES


Thanks for all your help guys!