Is this proposed new build compatible?

[jimbofish]

Hi,

This my first post. Just discovered this forum while searching to find parts to upgrade my old PC. This project started out to be an upgrade of our existing WIN98 computer and quickly evolved into a new build as I found out that very little of what we have can be reused. Our existing computer runs WIN98 on a TYAN S1590 AT mobo with AMD K6/2 350 and 328mb ram.

The original plan was to replace the mobo and processor so we could switch to WINXP as some software won't even install on 98 anymore. I really wanted to reuse our existing case as it had lots of bays, slide out mounting trays, etc. At the same time, the 250w power supply failed and was temporarily replaced with a 150w from an old 486 machine. After a new PS was ordered, I found that newer PSs don't have a power switch any more , so I can't even replace the PS. All moot points because our case doesn't have the cutouts for an ATX mobo I/O panel.

So now the plan is to build a virtually new machine using sales, rebates, and discounts as much as possible, because we picked up a $500 Toshibe laptop recently which cut into the budget left for the desktop. We have little need for gaming, mostly internet use, MSMoney, GPS and mapping programs, some video editing of home movies and recording to DVD.

Attched is the list of what I've come up with so far for the lowest price/performance ratio. Si far the cost is up to about $325 w/o the memory cost. I'm hoping to bring this whole thing in under $400, less a new momitor. I'd appreciate any informed comments as to whether anyone sees any potential problems or incompatibilities.

Thanks

[flanzig1]

I would change the Samsung DVD to a Lite-on. They are better and come with software. Shouldn't need to reuse the old sound card; the board you picked has on-board sound.
A question: Where are you getting XP Home Edition for $30? The best I've done is an XP Upgrade for $50 after instant rebate.

[AnotherMuggle]

From what I've heard from other members of these forums the Ultra PSUs are bad news!

[Alaron]

Yes, Ultra power supplies are terrible. Replace it with this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817103509

And do yourself a favor and spend another $5 for a much higher quality motherboard. The Asus A8N5X is a great board: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131569

And then you'll need a PCI-Express video card, such as this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102565

[newbuilder14]

I just used that video card.

[jimbofish]

This was an XP Home Upgrade from Office Depot about 2 weeks ago. They had a $70 rebate off their $99.99 price. Had I found it a day earlier, there was a second rebate for another $20 off that expired the day before! My wife came across the deal on one of her shopping boards.

I picked the Samsung because it reads/writes DVD-RAM at 12x. I need the DVD-RAM capability because my A/V recorder uses that format. There were a lot of different brands available for $30-$35. I just picked the Sammy because it had the faster RAM writing. The Lite-on was only 5x, IIRC.

Thanks.

[jimbofish]

Well, the Ultra was free after rebate and was supposed to be just a replacement for my failed one. What is it that's so bad about it? It has a lifetime warranty.

[jimbofish]

So how is it?

[Alaron]

There is a reason they give those Ultra's away.

Check our current in house list of good and bad power supplies: http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195 You'll notice the recommendation to avoid them towards the bottom.

Secondly, we have an inhouse review of the units and the results failed to impress: http://www.pcmech.com/show/reviews/980/

[andper10]

I would go with this ATI Radeon X1300 video card for a cheap card that should do a little video editing. Enjoy your build!

P.S. Just like the others said, you need to get a power supply from the good section in the forums here. If you don't, you run a very likely risk that your power supply will go out, and probably take quite a few of your parts with it.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by flanzig1 I would change the Samsung DVD to a Lite-on. They are better and come with software.

I would have to disagree with you. In the past lite-on had a reputation for making budget drives that still performed well compared to name brands. In the current market that just isn't the case. They still perform well, they just no longer offer cost savings compared to name brands. Name-brand drives, such as samsung, sony, pioneer, NEC, plextor, and some others, offer features such as quieter operation and slightly better performance, along with improved reliability.

If the price difference were large, I would say get a lite-on and don't look back, but I wouldn't be surprised if the lite-on were actually more expensive by a few dollars. If you can get a porsche for the same price as a ford, go ahead and get the porsche.

[newbuilder14]

The reason they suggest Lite on is because of the free burning software.

[mojo]

Almost all the drives on newegg come with free software, including the samsung.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowIm...DS182D+%2D+OEM

[Alaron]

Samsung opticals are not as high quality as Lite-Ons, even if they do throw in Nero.

[jimbofish]

So are the cheap $50-60 PCI-E cards that much better than a higher end AGP at twice the price?

[whubbard]

I'm not quite sure, but I would have to say that it would depend on the card, I bet some are, some aren't

[Ob1]

Q:Is PCI Express Video Faster than AGP Video?
A:Yes and No. A 16x PCI Express connection is at least 190% Faster than AGP 8x but this is the connection between the system and the video card. You use the connection the most when your video card is low on memory or when the game you are using uses a Direct X or Open GL feature that isn't supported in hardware.

So, what this means is that in terms of real world performance there may not be a huge difference between AGP and PCI Express if you are talking about identical chipsets. Unfortunately this is very hard to prove because graphics chipsets are designed either for PCI Express or AGP. If you have a card that is available in both forms then you have a graphics chipset that was designed for PCI Express and has a special bridge chip installed to let it comunicate with the AGP bus. The short of this is: if two cards of the same chipset are available in AGP and PCI-E then the PCI-E one will always be faster. On PCI-E you don't have the overhead of the bridge chip so it's faster, and you have the better bandwidth so in intense situations such as high resolution gaming you'll come out on top every time.

The main point here is: If you have a system with AGP on it, it doesn't make sense to upgrade just to get PCI-E video right now. The fastest AGP card to ever come out is likely to be the nVidia 6800GT. If you are at a point where that is too slow then by all means it makes sense to make a complete switch. If your happy with your AGP graphics options, wait until you are ready to upgrade the processor or other components before making the PCI-E switch. For more information on AGP and PCI please see the general FSB guide.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by Alaron Samsung opticals are not as high quality as Lite-Ons, even if they do throw in Nero.

I'll give you that, I haven't looked into samsung optical specifically, I just assumed their drives were good like most of their other products. My main point was that there are several name brand DVD burners for around $30 with very similar features and bundled software and I would go with one of those. My NEC-3550 is very highly rated by most people and it's around $30, for example. There's lots of drives that support light-scribe as well (maybe that lite-on does, I'm not sure). I have 2 lite-on drives in use right now in a couple of my machines, I just find it hard to recommend them these days because they no longer seem to have a price advantage.

@Ob1:
That is excellent advice. The PCI-Express bus is much faster on paper, but cards have only recently been made that would be limited by that bus. The fastest card that has/will ever come out for AGP is the Gainward 7800GS golden sample ultra mega super duper or whatever they tack on the end of it. It's extremely fast for an AGP card, but also much more money than faster PCI-Express cards. Check out these links out for a good comparison of video cards. One is just a recommendation of what to get at whatever price you want to spend, and one is all the numbers you could ever ask for about more cards than you can count with your hands and feet together.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/09/...for_the_money/

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html

[jfk]

The bottom line is AGP is a dead end interface, and manufacturers are slowly phasing it out. There are fewer and fewer AGP video cards available. I would go the PCIE route for no other reason than upgradeability/availability in the future.

[jimbofish]

<< If you are at a point where that is too slow then by all means it makes sense to make a complete switch. If your happy with your AGP graphics options, wait until you are ready to upgrade the processor or other components before making the PCI-E switch.>>


Since this is a new build, I have no answer to either of those that would help me decide. Other than gaming, which we won't be doing at all, is there any other use that would make any difference to me in terms of which type card I use?


BTW, what's an FSB guide?

[Ob1]

front side bus guide is from this website
http://www.directron.com/fsbguide.html

FSB connects the processor to the main memory.

[jimbofish]

Originally Posted by Ob1 front side bus guide is from this website http://www.directron.com/fsbguide.html FSB connects the processor to the main memory.

FSB I knew...FSB Guide was what I didn't recognise. Thanks.

[The_YongGrand]

It's easier if you go for a PCI-E motherboard - the upgrade capability is wider compared to the AGP nowadays. Since you are gaming, I suggest you need either a Radeon X1600 or a Geforce 7600GT and above. For the motherboard - you might want to choose other brands than the Asrock - the quality is just uh... not so good. Try a Gigabyte or an Asus perhaps?

[jimbofish]

Originally Posted by The_YongGrand It's easier if you go for a PCI-E motherboard - the upgrade capability is wider compared to the AGP nowadays. Since you are gaming, I suggest you need either a Radeon X1600 or a Geforce 7600GT and above. For the motherboard - you might want to choose other brands than the Asrock - the quality is just uh... not so good. Try a Gigabyte or an Asus perhaps?

I thought I said that we wouldn't be doing any gaming. If not, my question was whether I would notice any difference between AGP and PCIE in any other application. I initially chose the ASRock board because it has both slots with supposed full function for both, should there be need to upgrade later. I'm surprised at the general attitude here that they're no good, as I found a number of reviews that were generally favorable. I'm wondering if anyone has actually tried this particular board.

[dogdude16]

for you to save money here is a good case with a good Power supply

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16811129150:)

[jimbofish]

Originally Posted by dogdude16 for you to save money here is a good case with a good Power supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16811129150:)

Which one were you referring me to? The link has a long list of them.

[mojo]

I believe he was talking about any of those cheaper ones. They are all very adequate for what you want.

[andper10]

Originally Posted by jimbofish I'm surprised at the general attitude here that they're no good, as I found a number of reviews that were generally favorable. I'm wondering if anyone has actually tried this particular board.

IF you look at the newegg reviews, most of the people have only had the board for a week. Those reviews don't speak for the board's lack of long term quality. We are just trying to help you build a relilable system. Enjoy your build!

[glc]

Do you even NEED a video card? If you aren't gaming, onboard video will work just fine. If you are going 939, just get a micro-ATX board with onboard video and a PCI-E slot for a *future* upgrade.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131570

Here's a good case/power supply combo for that board, and the PSU has enough guts for a low to middle end PCI-E card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811153042

[jimbofish]

Originally Posted by glc Do you even NEED a video card? If you aren't gaming, onboard video will work just fine. If you are going 939, just get a micro-ATX board with onboard video and a PCI-E slot for a *future* upgrade. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131570 Here's a good case/power supply combo for that board, and the PSU has enough guts for a low to middle end PCI-E card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811153042

I can return most of the stuff I've already bought, go with just the onboard audio and video and the fox case and ps. Maybe one of the HDDs I bought are ok, or not?

I'm concerned about only having 2 PCI slots, as one will be taken up by the modem.

How much better will this machine be than just buying a basic pre-made computer somewhere?