Doin' Number Two

[nickdahl]

You all were so helpful when I built my first DAW computer, I just had to come back to tell you that, and ask for some more help. Here's the deal.

I built a DAW (digital audio workstation) last February. It runs great, but it's noisy. So, I decided to get a new case, fans, and a video card, and rebuild my first attempt so it'd be quieter. Now, I've got a bunch of parts left over, and I'd like to build a computer for my 15-year-old son, who likes studying and loves computer games.

Here are the pieces my son's computer will definitely have:

Lian Li V880 case
Enermax EG565P-VE PSU
LITE-ON DVD Drives (SHM-165H6S & SOHD-16P9SV)
XFX GeForce 600GTOC Video

Here's what I'm wondering? Until now, I was going to remove the motherboard from the Lian Li case and install it into the new case I'll use for my DAW. Then, I'd buy my son a new mobo and processor.

Now, I'm wondering if I shouldn't just buy myself a new mobo and processor, and work toward a "cleaner" install into the new box. The only problem is that I bought some fans, CPU coolers, and stuff, thinking that I'd use the old motherboard and processor for my new DAW.

Here's what I want to use for my new DAW:

At least an AMD A64 4400+ dual-core processor
Something like the ASUS A8N-SLI motherboard
Two GIGBYTE GeForce 7600GT fanless video cards (I'm running 3 displays: 2 17" Dells and 1 24" Dell).
At least 3GB of RAM (I have 4GB in my old DAW and planned on "sharing" some with my son).
Western Digital Raptor Hard Drives (I have 3: 2 150GB and 1 74GB).
Quiet fans, such as Nexus, and something like the Thermalight Ultra-120 CPU cooler.

So? My questions?

1. Should I buy a mobo and CPU for myself or my son? I'll notice a difference: he won't!
2. If I buy a new processor, what should I look for: another AMD dual-core, or go for a quad-core computer?
3. I've got Windows Professional XP SP2 on the "current" processor/mobo. My son would probably prefer Microsoft Vista: I don't. But, I've heard that my current 4400+A8N-SLI system might be stuck with the OS that I originally installed on it. Is this true?
4. Related to the last question: my son is in no hurry for his computer. Should I wait for Vista? If not, I'll just get another copy of XP SP2, because my music software requires it.

Again, I really appreciate the help.

Nick

[flanzig1]

1: Since your work is more demanding, put the new stuff in your computer
2: The Intel Core 2 Duo is the best now for multitasking
3: Stick with XP, I think most people will wait on vista
4: I think a lot of people will wait on Vista until there is some real world experiance has been done to see what are the quirks and flaws are.

[nickdahl]

Has anyone here built a "quad" computer using two Opterons? I've read that a lot of people are using them for music workstations.

Thanks,

Nick

[Stuey]

For the OS, I don't think you should get another copy of XP just yet. What you can do is install the newest Vista release and see how it is. If it's suitable for the time being, then you can wait a few months and then purchase Vista. If you don't have the time or patience to try that option, then XP would obviously be the safer choice.

Another thing - when I first saw the thread titled, I giggled for a little bit.

[nickdahl]

Originally Posted by Stuey For the OS, I don't think you should get another copy of XP just yet. What you can do is install the newest Vista release and see how it is. If it's suitable for the time being, then you can wait a few months and then purchase Vista. If you don't have the time or patience to try that option, then XP would obviously be the safer choice. Another thing - when I first saw the thread titled, I giggled for a little bit.

Thanks for the advice. Say, if I build a quad-core system using two Opteron processors, do I need to purchase two XP Professional OSs?

Thanks,

Nick

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by nickdahl Say, if I build a quad-core system using two Opteron processors, do I need to purchase two XP Professional OSs?

No, just one. XP Pro can handle multiple processors.

Cricket

[nickdahl]

Originally Posted by Cricket No, just one. XP Pro can handle multiple processors. Cricket

Great news! Saves me $139!

Nick

[glc]

My advice is forego SLI and get a single QUAD head video card for a multiple monitor workstation.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133165

Passive cooling too.

Get yourself the new motherboard and get a single slotter such as the A8N-E or A8N5X. Toss the northbridge fan and put a Zalman or similar on it. Give the kid the SLI rig.

[nickdahl]

Originally Posted by glc My advice is forego SLI and get a single QUAD head video card for a multiple monitor workstation. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133165 Passive cooling too. Get yourself the new motherboard and get a single slotter such as the A8N-E or A8N5X. Toss the northbridge fan and put a Zalman or similar on it. Give the kid the SLI rig.

Thanks for the note, glc. Honestly, I didn't know this type of video card existed!

Will I be able to do the same (run 3 displays) using the setup I've spec'd right now. I wouldn't be using the two video cards I have in SLI configuration.

Here's my plan, right now:

• 2 - AMD Dual-Core Opteron 265 Italy 1.8GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket 940 Processors
  
• TYAN S2877ANRF-RS Dual Socket 940 NVIDIA nForce4 Professional 2200 ATX Server Motherboard
  
• Thermalright Ultra-90(K8) CPU Cooling Heatsink
  
• Thermalright Ultra-120 CPU Cooling Heatsink
  
• 2 - GIGABYTE GV-NX76T256D-RH GeForce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Silent Pipe II
  
• NORCO RPC-810D Black Steel 4U Rackmount Chassis 3 External 5.25" Drive Bays
  
• 2 - CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 500 (PC 4000) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
  
• 3 - Nexus 120 mm Real Silent Case Fan - Orange
  
• 2 - Nexus 80 mm Quiet Case Fan
  
• SeaSonic S12 Energy Plus SS-550HT ATX12V/ EPS12V 550W Power Supply
  
• HP 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 16X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 5X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 40X CD-ROM IDE DVD Burner With LightScribe
  
• LG Black 18X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 18X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2M Cache IDE Super-Multi DVD Burner
  
• VANTEC NXP-205-BK Black Fan Controller Panel
  
• Microsoft XP Professional SP2

Thanks,

Nick

[glc]

That ONE card will run FOUR displays. It takes ONE PCI-E slot - that's all. NView manages all displays beautifully. It's a graphics workstation card - why are you using gaming cards for a DAW?

[nickdahl]

Originally Posted by glc That ONE card will run FOUR displays. It takes ONE PCI-E slot - that's all. NView manages all displays beautifully. It's a graphics workstation card - why are you using gaming cards for a DAW?

Thanks for the help, glc. Do you mean the Quadro card or the GeForce card can run four displays? I think you mean the Quadro.

Cost was the main reason I chose the GeForce cards. I needed some performance, DVI-I, and above all, quiet! Now I feel really stupid that I bought not just one, but two, of these cards!

Now I just hope Newegg will take the GeForce cards back. I haven't even received one yet!

Nick

[glc]

No, the GeForces are only dual display.

[nickdahl]

Originally Posted by glc No, the GeForces are only dual display.

Gotcha! So, to run three displays (using the GeForce 7600GT gamer cards I bought), I'd have to install them both, generate a whole lot more heat, and not notice much performance?

The two GeForce 7600GT cards are about $100 cheaper than the Quadro card you've shown me.

Do you think the major "trade-off" for going my route--if I'm stuck with the two cards--is that I lose a slot?

Thanks again. I wish I'd visited here sooner and vetted my system ideas first. Chalk it up to impulse buying!

Nick

[glc]

Remember that the Quadros are not gamers, they are optimized for workstation type applications. It's wasted performance.

[nickdahl]

I went with the Quadro and it arrived today. I believe I have all the pieces for this puzzle, with the exception of another PCI sound card (RME Hammerfall DSP 9632) that I'll add once I get the machine up and running.

Here's another question for anyone with some straight answers...will a Thermalright K8 Ultra-90 CPU heatsink fit on my CPU and board (Opteron 265 and Tyan Tiger K8WE S2877 board)? Just want to be sure before I start breaking seals!

Thanks again,

Nick

[joshrogoff]

Am i the only one that giggled a little bit when i read the thread title?

[glc]

No, but I didn't think it was appropriate to comment. I was tempted though!

To the best of my knowledge, those Opterons don't run that hot - I think I'd just use a mainstream cooler assembly and keep an eye on temps. If anything, I might look at low noise units like Zalmans.

[nickdahl]

Thanks for the help, guys, and thanks for the comments. I teach business communication, and last week we talked about language and how what you say influences how people will respond. "Doin' #2," the double meaning, attracted far more looks than "please help me."

I'm building now, and just installed the CPU and heatsinks, and came to a conclusion: the Ultra 120 definitely doesn't fit this mobo, and the Ultra 90 works, if I use it on one processor only. Since my goal was to make the computer as "silent" as possible, I'm disappointed, but now have to conduct a new hunt.

The stock CPU cooler for the Opteron fits fine. I'm now interested in finding the quietest model that's the same size (or a few mm larger). What I'll do is build the computer using the heatsinks I have now (and return the Ultra 120) and see if the noise is acceptable. If not, I'll keep working.

Any suggestions for a small and quiet heatsink/fan?

Nick

[glc]

Will a couple of these fit?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835106062

[nickdahl]

That looks good. I'll check it out.

Here's a question about "registered" memory. I have some memory here that I planned to use for this build (Corsair XMS 4000 500 MHz 1GB sticks). However, I just read in the motherboard manual that I need at least one stick of registered memory to POST. Oops...

Since this is a dual-processor board, do I need one stick of registered memory for each CPU, or can I get by with one stick, on CPU 1? The way I read the manual, I think one stick for the entire computer is sufficient, but since I don't have any registered memory lying around, I either have to order it, or go for it using the stuff I have available. Since I have 6 GB of the other stuff, and intended to fill the slots with it, should I give it a go, or will I just have to go back and install the registered stuff when the computer won't POST? I'll continue building, but I'm sad that I might not be able to test the computer today.

If curiousity gets the best of me, should I be warned that I could mess something up if I try running the computer without registered memory?

Thanks,

Nick

[joshrogoff]

Originally Posted by glc No, but I didn't think it was appropriate to comment. I was tempted though!

You're a mod, so no, it wouldn't be appropriate. Leave that kind of thing to a commoner.

[glc]

You just got stung with the ram requirements on server motherboards, which is what you have. Your Corsair is NOT compatible. ECC Registered RAM is *required* and is VERY expensive.

http://www.crucial.com/store/listpar...877+Tiger+K8WE

If you want to buy Newegg memory, you will find it under Server Memory and you have to choose ECC and Registered. DDR400/PC3200 is as fast as it gets. You should confirm the modules you select are compatible by cross referencing them on the manufacturer's configurator. The memory MUST be installed in pairs.

Sorry about that, but you are prolly gonna do a 2 when you read this.

[nickdahl]

Originally Posted by glc You just got stung with the ram requirements on server motherboards, which is what you have. Your Corsair is NOT compatible. ECC Registered RAM is *required* and is VERY expensive. http://www.crucial.com/store/listpar...877+Tiger+K8WE If you want to buy Newegg memory, you will find it under Server Memory and you have to choose ECC and Registered. DDR400/PC3200 is as fast as it gets. You should confirm the modules you select are compatible by cross referencing them on the manufacturer's configurator. The memory MUST be installed in pairs. Sorry about that, but you are prolly gonna do a 2 when you read this.

I've just wiped myself after an explosive #2. This will work, won't it? Tyan's website said it would. Now, of just ordering the one sick, I'll order 4?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145310

Nick

[Sam-U-Rai]

Go for it nick. But could you help me out too man?

I really REALLY REALLY need help now.

[nickdahl]

Originally Posted by Sam-U-Rai Go for it nick. But could you help me out too man? I really REALLY REALLY need help now.

I might have to eat dinner first so I can work something up!

Nick

[Sam-U-Rai]

Originally Posted by nickdahl I might have to eat dinner first so I can work something up! Nick

Can I use metal screws man?

[nickdahl]

Originally Posted by Sam-U-Rai Can I use metal screws man?

Okay, I think I get it now. I thought we were talking about BM. Then, I checked your previous posts, and now realize you're serious. If I were you, I'd use screws that come with instructions.

And, I'm not trying to be selfish, but you might want to start your own thread, because this one is for my simple questions.

Nick

[glc]

Sam, I'm getting tired of warning you about all kinds of things. Do NOT do a #2 on other people's threads! Would you please, first read the forum rules, then this sticky thread?

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=150410

Nick, that ram will work, you must use pairs.

[nickdahl]

Originally Posted by glc Sam, I'm getting tired of warning you about all kinds of things. Do NOT do a #2 on other people's threads! Would you please, first read the forum rules, then this sticky thread? http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=150410 Nick, that ram will work, you must use pairs.

Great! Thanks for the help, glc! I broke the bank ordering it. I also rolled the dice and ordered a pair of this:

Kingston 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM ECC Registered DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit Server Memory

This way, I'll have one processor able to use 3GB, and the other will have 2GB...hope it works okay!

Nick

[nickdahl]

Everything's here, and I've been working on the build. The CPUs are installed. The heatsinks are installed. The memory is installed. The PSU is installed. Case fans have been replaced. DVD burners have been mounted in their smaller rack and are ready to be bolted into the rackmount case. Now's time for a critical decision...

What machine will be my DAW "master" and what machine will be my DAW "slave." Here's the deal...

I decided yesterday to keep both machines (originally I was going to give the old DAW to my son). His recent apathy about a new computer leads me to this decision. So, now that I've sunk $$$$ into parts, programs, and OS for a new computer, I need to do what's best for my needs.

A program, FX Teleport, has been recommended as a way to deal with my major frustrations concerning CPU overload. FX Teleport connects two computers using LAN, so that the "master" DAW can focus on the audio software, such as Pro Tools, while the "slave" computer focuses on virtual instruments (e.g., software synths, drum samples, and so forth) and processing plug-ins (e.g., convolution reverb, time compression/expansion). This is my "fork in the road."

My old DAW, which did both the audio software and processing software, now needs to do one or the other. I've been given some advice that recommended I keep Pro Tools and my other auido programs on the old system, and concentrate all the new firepower of the dual-Opteron system on processing needs. If I went this way, the recommendation goes, I wouldn't have to uninstall a bunch of software when I migrate it to the new system.

I'm still leaning toward doing a fresh build on the new system, and install my OS, audio software, and whatever else on the new system. Then, the old system would do the virtual instruments and processing stuff. But, if I do this, here are my concerns:

• Uninstalling all the software. Many programs have copy protection schemes that involve CPUID. Am I right in assuming that if, for instance, I took at 150 GB drive that was loaded with software and reinstalled it into the new DAW, copy-protected stuff wouldn't work? I have all the disks (everything's legal) but I'd rather uninstall first and have everything installed cleanly, rather than start with a mistake.
• How would I organize my migration? My old DAW has three nice hard drives (WD Raptor 74GB, and 2 150GB Raptors). If the new DAW is going to be the "master," I'd like to use the 74GB Raptor drive as my OS drive on the new machine, and not keep it on the old machine. I'd need to re-format it and reinstall XP (I have a new copy).
• I have other drives available, too (e.g., WD 80GB, WD 250GB, Seagate 400GB, and Maxtor 80GB external).
• Here's the drive configurations I'd prefer. In the new computer, I'd like the WD Raptor 74GB OS/Application drive, a Raptor 150GB audio drive, and the WD 250GB backup drive. In the old computer, I'd like the WD 80GB OS/Applicaton drive, a 150GB Raptor processing drive, and the Seagate 400GB backup drive.

Does any of this make sense?

Nick