Gaming PC - First Time Build -- Core Duo on a Budget

[technoob]

Hey guys,

I have been running for a few years on an VPR Matrix intel 2ghz 2gig of ram 256meg video card. Now games are starting to slow down, and I figured it was time to upgrade. I checked around and it seems that building a pc will allow me to get the most bang for my buck.


I came across an e-article titled "Your DIY 4 GHz Dual Core Gaming Rig For $720" at Tom's Hardware- Heres the link if anyones interested

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/06/...g_rig_for_720/

Here is the list of components

Processor Intel Pentium D 805 2.66 GHz (Dual-Core) $122.00 Remains stable even at 4 GHz
Motherboard (7.1 Audio etc,) Asrock 775Twins-HDTV (Socket 775) $82.90* Affordable dual-core motherboard
RAM 2 x 512 MB DDR2-667 Adata Vitesta PC2 5300 $78.55 Also runs at 333 MHz (667
Water cooler Thermaltake Bigwater SE Cooling Kit $129.99 Simple water cooler

*Not completely sure if these prices are still accurate. These figures were taken directly from Tom's Hardware's website.

I am definately interested in the prospect of Overclocking as well... but i have absoloutely no idea in how to do it.

I was wondering - what exactly do i need to get, would it be possible just to utilize the case I bought years ago (VPR Matrix brand - sold by Best Buy), along with the sound card, video card, RAM (I bought some cheap gig sticks), and just purchase a power supply, motherboard, processor, and cooling system?

I did alot of perusing here on the forums and it seems as though a great majority of the people here believe in the core 2 duo platform.

I am not a complete idiot when it comes to hardware, but I am a noob as this is my first build.

If so can you guys give me some suggestions to give me the most bang for my buck.

I would like to spend no more than $500-- or less if its doable.

Thanks in advance,
The Humble Technoob

[blue60007]

You bought some new RAM? Or was that from the old PC? If it's from the old PC it's probably too old be useful, but if you just bought it, what type did you get? Also, that's probably an AGP or PCI video card (what exact video card is it?)? It's not really a good idea to incorporate and older technology into a new build (AGP/PCI video cards). Besides, if games are getting slow the video card needs to be upgraded. Otherwise you'll end up with the same gaming performance as before.

If you could, list exactly what you have already and would like to use, and the specifications. Try to be as specific as possible, like with the RAM we need to know if it's DDR or DDR2, etc

$500 for a gaming PC is going to be very hard if not impossible. You'll probably be stuck with onboard video, which won't run the latest games well at all. Also, forget about overclocking. Overclocking requires premium RAM, PSU, the whole works...it'll blow your budget away.

[technoob]

ATI Radeon 9100 series 256meg Video Card. - Thats the best I can do on the explanation of the video card. - With what you said, would it make more sense to simply upgrade the video card rather than the entire pc?

Also, if 500 dollars is no where close to being an overclocking machine, can overclocking be safely done with the setup given at Tom's hardware for the 720$ System?

Viking 1.0GB PC2100 DDR SDRAM DIMM Memory

1.0GB of memory to improve performance

266MHz operating speed

184-pin DDR DIMM

Speed 266MHz

Pin Configuration 184-pin DIMM

Thanks,
Technoob

[blue60007]

Is there a model number on your old PC? I'd like to check out the power supply too. If that is indeed an AGP port (which from what I can find, it is an AGP card, but it may also be PCI), and how powerful the power supply is. Any modern video card will need a pretty beefy power supply. If possible, a video card upgrade may be all you need.

Unfortunately, that RAM is really too slow to be of much use. If that was some DDR400 (PC3200) you could do an AMD Socket 939 build.

I took a look at Tom's overclocking machine. If they can do it for $720, you should be able to also. And the prices have come down some.

Intel 805 - $100
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 - $100
ASUS P5L-MX - $76
SAPPHIRE 100164L Radeon X1650PRO - $130
FSP Group AX450 - $55
Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD 80GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s - $45
LITE-ON DVD-RW - $30
Windows XP Home OEM - $90
Plus a cheap case of your likings (the old case will probably require some hacking to get these parts in, it'll be easier to find a cheap case (Antec has some for around $50).

That's a little over $625 (minus shipping and case). Based on www.newegg.com pricing. It should do some decent overclocking, but I'm not going to guarantee 4GHz. You'll need some serious watercooling (a good set up is usually over $150-$200) and a beefier power supply (tack on another $50-$100).

That motherboard can also support an upgrade to one of the new Intel Core 2 Duo's. If you can swing another $80 or so, you could jump right to a E6300 ($180 or so) and forgot the overclocking. It'll easily match an overclocked Intel 805 at stock speeds, but that'll really stretch your budget. Just something else to consider.

I'd say what I posted above is minimum for a gaming rig, but I'm interested if anyone else can come up with something better/cheaper.

[technoob]

VPR Matrix model 2000

I upgraded both the RAM, and Video Card after purchasing it.

I believe the power supply is of the 450w variety, I had to replace it after 3 years of use (1 year of running the new video card).

Thanks for all the help,

What do you think would be a stable overclocking speed based on Tom's Hardware's guide?

Are water-cooling systems difficult to put in? Which would you suggest for getting overclocking speeds of 3.5ghz or greater?

Will this build be that big of a difference maker when it comes to what I currently use?

With that E6300, will I also need water-cooling/powersupply, if not then that would definately be worth it!


Sorry for all the questions, just getting out of my field of knowledge,
Technoob

[blue60007]

It's hard to predict how well it'll overclock, each rig'll be different.

Here's another article on the Intel 805 overclocking.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/..._41_ghz_cores/

If you're going to spend the money on a water coolers (I can't really help you with the specifics there, I've never played around with watercooling before) you might as well opt for a Core 2 Duo, which'll be just as fast if not faster right from the starting gate.

That X1650Pro video card alone is many times faster than a Radeon 9100.

If you put a 450W PSU in there, you may be in luck. If that's an AGP card (I can't seem to find much info on it) I could see this working:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814195031

(Yes, there's lots of choices out there to choose between )

[Mr.Ferrari]

Two peices of advice over what blue said:

1. If your going to be overclocking a 805. Plan on a VERY high quality 450+ psu. Depending on how high you go, these things will suck up alot of juice. Single railed psu's are the best choice for this.

2. Watercooling is worthless if not done right. Stay far far away from pre-built kits, especially thermaltakes. And do it custom. If you do plan on this plan to set aside atleast 160-200 for a pure cpu water loop.
My advice is you stick to air.

[technoob]

The whole water-cooling thing is scaring me... I would much rather not have to worry about it through spending an extra 80$.

I think I would much rather go with the e6300 CPU.

Now, will this CPU work with all of the other components listed minusing the new PSU and Cooling system?

Thanks for all the help guys.
Technoob

[andper10]

I find it very funny that Tom's Hardware is bashing Dell for using low quality parts. Dell uses good parts, hence the 1 year standard warranty. Most of the parts in that list are low qualtiy (mobo, hd, ram, psu, water cooling kit). Plus, 4Ghz is only achieveable using watercooling. And water cooling is dangerous, b/c if it leaks, your computer is fried, especially when using a low qualit kit like the one Tom's Hardware recommends. Nowadays, Processor speed isn't as important. You want to look for Dual Core, L2 Cache size, and benchmarks that compare the processor to others. A 1.83 Ghz Core 2 Duo would beat out a Pentium D 805 O.C.'d to 4 Ghz.

First off, what processor do you have? I would guess that it is a Celron. Going from a Celron just to a Pentium 4 would be a big improvement in itself, so Celron to Core 2 Duo would give you a ton of extra processing power; and going from a Celron to a Pentium D would be plenty for you, even a few years into the future. Core 2 Duo's need DDR2 Ram (DDR2 533, DDR2 667, or DDR2 800), which you don't have. A X1600 Pro PCI-E Video Card is only $88. PCI-Express 16x has overshadowed AGP, so the AGP Cards of equal specs will be quite a bit more expensive, not to mention that they don't make AGP cards for high end gaming. Really, the memory size on video cards is not the big thing to look at. A 256MB X1900GT is going to be WAY BETTER than a 256MB Radeon 9100. You will want to upgrade to at least a X1600 to play games released this year at decent settings. Here is my recommended Upgrade List if you build a new PC. You could probably get by with just upgrading your video card and power supply for now, but keep in mind that an AGP card is going to cost you more than its PCI-E equivalent. It really depends what games you want to play.

$76 - ASUS P5L-MX Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 945G Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131041

$98 - Intel Pentium D 805 Smithfield 2.66GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Dual Core
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...N82E1681911600

$103 - CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) (If you play games with big maps, you will proably want to get 2GB of ram eventually. If you do plan to upgrade to 2GB, get a single 1GB Stick for now so that you will be able to run dual channel when you get the other stick (but the sticks must be identical for dual channel to work))
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145568

$196 - SAPPHIRE 100189L Radeon X1900GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 VIVO PCI Express x16 (RoHS) CrossFire Video Card (What games do you want to play? This is probably overkill, but it would play the latest games very well while staying on a budget)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102022

$44 - Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD 80GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (You can get more GB if you need them)(This is a good budget HD, you can go for the Segate 7200.10 series if you have more money to spend and want amazingly fast HD that isn't too expensive)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822135106

$30 - LITE-ON Black 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 16X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2M Cache ATAPI/E-IDE 16X DVD Burner - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106013

$90 - Microsoft Windows XP Home Sp2b 1pk w/Upgrade Coupon for Vista - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116169

$54 - FSP Group (Fortron Source) AX450-PN, 12cm FAN, version 2.0, 2 SATA, PCI Express, 450W Power Supply - Retail (This would be cutting it close for an X1900GT. It has enough amps for that video card, but the watage is sort of low. We'll see what Glc thinks.)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817104954

$30 - Rosewill R-5059 Black/Silver 0.5mm SGCC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 300W with (20+4) pin main connector Power Supply - Retail (This is my favorite basic desktop budget case, but if you want to show your rig off, you might want to get a case with a side panel and possibly a nicer cooling setup)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811147026

That comes out to only $721 (wow, talk about a bunch of computer for your money), and I definitely think that the extra dollar is worth it for a better quality brand name motherboard, hard drive, ram, and power supply. Plus, an X1900GT would KILL a X1300. And, you won't have to worry about watercooling leaks! Plus, if you ever want to upgrade to Core 2 Duo, that motherboard will allow you to. Personally, I have found that a Pentium 4 Processor is fine for my Need For Speed Games, its the X1600 Video Card that is my System's weakness. That is why I would suggest a more expensive video card and a less expensive processor. Enjoy your build!

[blue60007]

ATi snuck a X1950Pro in as a replacement of the X1900GT.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102061

Just a couple bucks more, should perform a little better and run a bit cooler.

[technoob]

Wow thanks for all the info, this has been a big help guys.

The games I play are battlefield 2, WoW, Oblivion, Will be playing Vanguard : SoH when it releases..

The machine I bought 3-4 years ago was a 2.0ghz pentium 4? Not sure I really can't remember, and finding specs on the machine I bought is tough!

If that power supply will be cutting it close, is there a better option that is close to that price? I don't want to worry about power issues, or cooling issues.

Don't really care about showing my machine of, it will be stable and I work most of the time - just a recreational vehicle when I'm not at work.

It seems as though the 1.83ghz processor at 180$ would be a better value due to not worrying about the risk of overclocking or watercooling

Again, I really do appreciate the help guys.
Technoob

[jayb1234]

You can get a pretty decent overclock on the Core 2 Duos using the stock Intel heatsink/fan unit.

They don't put out nearly as much heat as the Pentium Ds.

Add the cost for watercooling or an aftermarket heatsink/fan unit to the 805 price and you are in the same price range as an E6300 or E6400.

[andper10]

Nobody said that you have to overclock the Pentium D 805. It would run just fine at stock speed, or you could probably get it in the 3 Ghz range using air cooling with the stock cooler. If you have the cash, you should go for the Core 2 Duo. But if that means sacrificing your video card, then I would say stick with the Pentium D. That X1950Pro looks like it would be a better choice than my origional recommendation. I am not sure if that Power Supply is "cutting it close". I don't have nearly as much experience as the mods and vetrans, so I would see what they say.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Assuming your going with a stock 805/core 2 duo system plus that x1950pro, that 450W FSP unit that blue suggested should be ok.

[blue60007]

If this is a work machine, overclocking is NOT recommended...you would want the machine to be stable as possible if your work is depending on it.

EDIT: Or do you mean you'll be away away at work most of the time...? After I re-read what you posted, I think this is what you meant, nevermind if that's the case.