Another new build

[Marke522]

Hi, thanks for reading.

My brother is wanting to build himself a new computer with money from a year end bonus, and also perhaps from his tax refund. He's been reading a bunch of magazine reviews and knows just enough to be dangerous. A few of the parts that he's picked out won't work with each other, so I told him to post here, but he convinced me to do it for him seeing how I allready have an account.

He has allready purchased a few items, things that will be needed regardless of other decisions. But we have to make the big one, AMD or Intel. I've always gone with AMD with all the computers I've ever owned or built for the last 10 years. But looking at the new Core 2 Duo, it might be time for a change.

He allready has a case, HDD, DVD +/- RW, and a video card. He bought these on Newegg over the weeked, because he was afraid he'd blow the money on something else. He has trouble saving sometimes, so he wants to buy everything as he gets the money for it rather than all at once.

APEVIA (ASPIRE) X-PLEASURE-BK Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811144128

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200KS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136003

LITE-ON Black 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 16X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 24X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2M Cache ATAPI/E-IDE DVD Burner - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106013

BFG Tech BFGR76256GTOCE GeForce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143049

We're thinking of getting a 2nd video card to run SLI. I was thinking of the Enermax Noisetaker II or a Liberty. Or perhaps a Thermaltake ToughPower. I've use Noisetakers in the past and have one myself.

Once the processor is determined we can think about a motherboard and memory. Most likely ASUS or Abit, along with Kingston Hyper-X or Corsair XMS. Then last but not least the sound card, most likely an Audigy II.

Any and all replys will be welcome.

Thanks again, Mark.

[newbuilder14]

Here is another alternative. Your parts are okay, but might I suggest this setup?

Case: Something he likes, Mid Tower
PSU: See sticky in 'General Hardware' Antec, Enermax, FSP, Seasonic, Silverstone, etc.
GPU: ATI x1950Pro or nVidia 7900gs
Mobo: Asus P5B
CPU: Core 2 Duo E6300
DVD: Same as you have selected
OS: Windows XP Home SP2 OEM

Now, I don't see a budget, do you have one?

[Mr.Ferrari]

If you insist on going SLi then you will need to spend big bucks on an only somewhat "ok" motherboard. That being the Asus P5N32-E SLi for $300. In which case I suggest you forget about sli and go with something like an Asus P5B/Deluxe. Pair that up with a E6300 or if budget allows E6600.

Heres a few psu's that will handle a hefty single card or two lower cards in SLi if ever need be:
Sunbeam NUUO 550W

Silverstone ST50EF 500W
(The SAME thing is here for a bit less: Enhance 500W)

If he doesnt plan on overclocking get some of this memory:
2GB Corsair DDR2 667 VS

[clroberts]

I thought I read somewhere that Intel had issues with SLI and that they recommended that you use crossfire. Was that before Core2Duo?

[Mr.Ferrari]

That was before 680i, when NForce4 was the only choice. Nonetheless its still a new chipset. Its expensive and buggy. One of the bugs being a faulty raid controller.

[Marke522]

As of right now there doesn't really seem to be a budget. But he's allready purchased that video card yesterday. Perhaps he can get ahold of Newegg before they send it and cancel it.

I think there is more of a concern on a good graphics card, rather than going SLi. If there is one card that will suit the needs of todays and tomorrows games, although I know nothing can be completely future proof, then that card would most likely be the route to go, depending on price. My brother has said that he wants to stay with nVidia, not interested with an ATI card.

No interest in setting up RAID, so don't worry about making any suggestions based on that.

Also there isn't any interest in overclocking, I don't think he even knows there is such a thing.

[newbuilder14]

Nothing says you have to get an ATI card even if you get the P5W DH (which I don't recommend as Crossfire won't be popular when DX10 unfolds).

If you did send it back I'd look into an ATI X1950Pro - I don't know - the 7600gt ko I have is awesome but I have a new ATI obsession.

[Marke522]

Here's a link for a PSU that he's thinking about.

He definatley wants to go SLi in the future. So that means two things. 1.) We are going with nVidia rather than ATI. 2.) We have more money for a faster video card now, rather than buying a poor mans SLi setup. Perhaps a 7950 GTX. Have to look around and consider. The video card he wanted went over his PayPal limit, so the order was cancelled.

OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply 100 - 240 V - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817341002


There's also some RAM that he's chosen, 2 GB XMS 2.
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 675 (PC2 5400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145015

Just gotta get a speed that matches the motherboard we choose. Most likely it will be the
ASUS CROSSHAIR Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 590 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131593
or the
ASUS P5B Deluxe Socket T (LGA 775) Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131045
Depending on what route we go for the processor.

Found the RAM.
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail $276.00 ($236.00 after $40.00 Mail-In Rebate)ends 12/21/06
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145034

[Mr.Ferrari]

If you want intel and SLI you will have to go with the P5N32-E SLi.

[Marke522]

Uh,... okay. I'll take your word for it. But I don't understand why. Both the cards I picked out have two PCI-X 16 slots.

I've only built one SLi machine, so theres much for me to learn. It was on the Asus A8N-SLi Deluxe. Rather nice board, but it's allready been sent back once for a back chipset fan, but they took care of it. Lifetime Warrenty. So far every build I've ever made has been on an Asus. Oops, take that back, had an ECS once. It was free. Gave it to my 10 yeard old daughter.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Well for intel the only chipsets that are SLI compatible are Nforce4, Nforce 570/590 and Nforce 680i.

The P5B Deluxe you chose does have two pci-e x16 slots but the second slot will be degraded to a PCI-E X4 once you add a second card. So that will severly hinder performance. That and the fact the board is not SLI compatible.

Nforce4 and 570/590 have horrible stability issues when paired up in a Intel Platform. So stay away.

680i is brand new. Its still very immature and will need a few updates before its totally stable. But since you insist on SLi, this is the chipset I would ever pair up with a Intel Processor. The ASUS P5N32-E SLI being the most safest choice.

[Marke522]

How about going 939 over AM2.

ASUS A8N-SLI Premium Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail $133.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131540

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo 2.2GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor - Retail $199.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103546

What's the stabilty of a 590 when paired with an AMD? If we choose to go with Intel, hows the 650i?

[Mr.Ferrari]

939 is still an awesome platform. A better memory controller and a whole lot more stable then AM2(which is 570/590).

650i is like the little brother to 680i. 650i still fully supports SLi, but instead of sli being 16x16 it will be instead 8x8. Which isnt all that huge of a performance decrease. Otherwise it just has fewer features then 680i. 650i also uses the same Southbridge thats on budget nforce4 and 570 boards.

This is an even NEWER chipset. So I, like many, still have absolutely no clue on how well it performs including stability.

Your 939 choices are good.

[Marke522]

If I go SLi on the A8N will it be 8x8? If so, is there a 939 board somewhere that would be 16x16?

Thanks for all your help.

Also considering this:
AMD Athlon 64 4000+ San Diego 2.4GHz 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor - OEM $79.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103528

I don't know anything about the Toledo, but I can only imagine it would perform better since it's a 4400+. I noticed the clock speed is slower, but it has a larger L1 Cache 128KB+128KB and L2 Cache 2 x 1MB compared to the single core L1 Cache 64KB+64KB and L2 Cache 1MB.

Guess I answered my own question. I'll stick with the Toledo.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Yes the A8N-SLi is 8x8 when in SLi mode.

If you want full X16 then you need the A8N32-SLI Deluxe.

Remember though, there isnt a phenomenal amount of difference between x8 and x16. The PCI-E bus is not that saturated.

[Marke522]

Outstanding!!!!!!!

I'm going to recommend this board with the Toledo. We'll pick out cards tomorrow.

Thanks again!!!!

Mark.

[clroberts]

Wouldn't PCI-E Running at 8x (Given the same exact GPU) Perform the same as AGP 8x? I know the you can have two cards with PCI-E, but from what I gathered that was what made PCI-E Faster.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Like I said, the bus itself wasnt all that saturated to begin with. The move from agp to pci-e had a absolutely minimal performance increase for the cards at the time. It was more of a forced platform change for future proofing.

Yes with newer high end cards you might notice more of a difference, whether or not its worth it is up to you.

[Marke522]

Found a psu that I think we're going with. Unless anyone has anything else to recommend.

Thermaltake W0105RU Toughpower 700W Power Supply w/Active PFC $159.99
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Produc...uctCode=371318

We're going with the ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131568

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Toledo 2.2GHz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103542
I know with an OEM we will need a heatsink and fan.


Most likely this ram CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145575

Any thoughs? Thanks, Mark.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Have you decided on a videocard for your sli setup? Or are you sticking to the 7600gt?

[Marke522]

We're sticking with 2 7600 GT's. There was a killer MIR for $65 off, so he ordered 2.

I read in another thread someone had trouble with his Corsair.
p.s.
the manual also says this:
Kingston® HyperX® PC2-8500 Ready (default runs @1066MHz)

Should I consider ordering Hyper X? Doesn't matter to me one way or the other, I've only used Kingston in the past, and have had no trouble with it. As long as it works well is my main concern.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Well first of all thats ddr2 kingston, and second ddr1 hyperx was one of the most shoddy sticks you could buy.

Corsair is the best pair up with any platform on the market today. If you want to save some money, I'd suggest Valueselect.

700W is way overkill for those two 7600gts, you could easily get by with a 450-500w. But I assume its for future proofing yes?

[Marke522]

Ok, thanks for the info about the Kinston.

Yeah, I told him about the PSU, but he's not worried about overkill. He'd like something ready for two 8800 GT's later.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Cool. Just one thing, would those be 8800GTS's or 8800GTX's? If its SLI with the later 8800gtx then no that powersupply wont be compatible.

[glc]

Why SLI a couple of 7600GT's? A single 7900 something will outperform it and cost a lot less than 2 of those 7600's.

[Marke522]

That is exactly why I made this thread 2 weeks ago. Because I've never done SLi before and I don't know any of this. My brother knows hardly anything at all. Only how to play COD2 and BF2. And he is terrible at waiting. I told him the best thing to do is make a thread, let everyone know what you are thinking about, and then after a few weeks you'll have it all figured out.

He went to Newegg on his own, and ordered half the stuff without asking or waiting.

So now we have all these parts and a tower, but no psu, mobo, cpu or ram. .

I guess he's afraid of spending his money on something else before everything figured out.

But one card was only $78 after a MIR, and the other was $113. I know it isn't future proof, but it didn't seem like a bad idea at the time.

[glc]

Certified PSU's for dual 8800GTX's:

CoolerMaster Real Power Pro 850W (RS-850-EMBA)

ETASIS ET-850 850W

ETASIS ET-750 750W

PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 Quad

PC Power & Cooling Turbo Cool 1KW-SR 1000W

PC Power & Cooling 1KW-Quad SLI (TC1KW4E) 1000W

Silverstone Zeus ST85ZF 850W

Silverstone Zeus ST75ZF 750W

Tagan TG900-U96 900W

Tagan TG1100-U96 1100W

Thermaltake Toughpower W0131RU 850W

Topower/ePower TOP-1000W

Zippy Gaming PSL-6850P(G1)-PCIE4

Go with one of those for futureproofing.

[Marke522]

SWEET. Thanks a TON. You always come through glc.

Is there anything else about the build that you would change if you could, other than the video cards that you allready mentioned?

Also, my brother is still wondering if he should with the new Core 2 Duo. I told him it's a LOT more money, and Mr.Ferrari said 680i is brand new. Its still very immature and will need a few updates before its totally stable. So I recommended to him the 939. I don't want to open a debate for the entire forum, but if you have a thought, I would like hear it. I'm sure you'll say the same thing. I've never been led astray by anyone here before.

Once again, thanks.

[Mr.Ferrari]

I mean as long as he's not planning raid or doing major overclocking the thing should be stable.

Core 2 Duo is definately the way to go.

If you are planning dual 8800gtx's then I would personally suggest the Etasis(Silverstone) 850w. The Zippy would be the best, but the G1 a.k.a Gamer edition has not yet reached the US. Currently the extremely loud server model is available to us.

[Marke522]

Cool, thanks for the reply. I'll be sure to email him this link so he has all the model numbers for the units.