Another First Poster/First Builder (Read as Noob)

[alynch_2000]

Season's Greetings to All!

First off - I have read the stickies & hope to give you the appropriate info out of the gate but please bare with me if I forget anything!

Okay am working on my first build. In the planning stage and am hoping you can help to confirm compatibility and/or point out noob mistakes!

Will be doing a lot of gaming plus reguler, less tasking activities so am hoping for a rig that will fulfill any current game requirements & be good for 4-5 years (probably too much to ask).

Cost is not much of an issue except that I will shop around for the best prices on the final components. That said I mean that cost is not an issue in that it looks like I could get a pretty hot setup without going way overboard for $1.5 to $2k and I do not have a problem with that.

Below is what I'm currently looking at for this box only build:

• TC3J-4507*:: PowerUp 5701 Black/Silver ATX Mid-Tower Case
• CP1-AM2-5200::AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ 2.60GHz FSB Socket AM2
• S457-1115*:: Masscool / Socket AM2 / Aluminum / 80mm Fan / CPU Cooling Fan
• 2 x RaptorX / 150GB / 10K / 16MB / SATA-150 Hard Drive (RAID 0 config)
• 4 x C13-2022*:: Corsair Dual Channel TWINX 1024MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz E.P.P. Memory
• Asus M2N-SLI-Deluxe NVIDIA Socket AM2 ATX Motherboard / Audio / PCI Express / SLI Ready / Dual Gigabit LAN / S/PDIF / USB 2.0 & Firewire / Serial ATA / RAID
• Lite-on SHW-160P6S Optical
• ULT33120*:: Ultra / X-Finity 2G / 600-Watt / ATX / 120mm Fan / SATA-Ready / SLI-Ready Power Supply
• 2 x B52-7860*:: BFG GeForce 7900 GS OC / 256MB GDDR3 / SLI / PCI Express
• Bigfoot Networks Killer Gaming NIC Card - Model M1 Gigabit LAN*

*I know the Killer NIC may spark some controversy but I am already running this in my current machine and it definitely helped me (current lags are 98+% server caused). I'm going to pull it from the current machine & put it in the new one.

So that is what I am looking at now. Would greatly appreciate a compatibility check from all you experienced builders and any suggestions would also be greatfully welcomed.

Thanks and again Happy Holidays!

[flanzig1]

I would change the PSU to a better brand like Corsair/Enermax/OCZ/Seasonic.
You probably don't need 4gigs of ram, 2gigs is the sweet spot. And XP can only use around 3.2 gigs.
If you want to run RAID 0, I would get a 3rd HD for data incase the RAID 0 crashes(all data is lost if RAID 0 goes bad).

[Alaron]

Have you considered an Intel Core 2 Duo based build? They really will outperform anything from AMD right now, and will give you a bit more longevity in the system overall.

And I would also avoid TigerDirect, they have a reputation for poor customer service. We recommend www.newegg.com here.

Here is our list of good and bad power supplies. http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195

[alynch_2000]

Thanks guys for the quick replies!

Will try to address in order mentioned:

1. PSU - Thanks for the comments and links - I don't know enough to know which are good/bad. I check reviews but don't really trust them - you never know, the VP of Sales may be going out and posting a thousand rave reviews!
   
2. OS - Had considered Vista but do not want to be one of the guinea pigs. Will probably go with XP (not sure about Home v. Media though) & upgrade to Vista after they have some time to work out the bugs.
   
3. RAM - Sounds that 4 gigs will be a bit of overkill at this point. I can always add more later so will take your suggestion and hold on to some $$ for now!
   
4. RAID 0 - Have also considered 0+1 for the security factor but was mostly considering sufficient room with quick access. Was planning to back up data files to my current machine (which will mostly serve as the Tivo server once the new machine is up & running) as long as I am faithful about back ups shouldn't this be sufficient?
   
5. AMD v Intel - This has been one of the major debates so far. Was considering AMD just due to friends recommendations but do not actually know anyone running Core 2 Duo yet so have no references to compare the two. Will have to check the benchmarks & price comparisons to settle I guess.
   
6. TigerDirect - Really just used their site to put a list together. Actually I will shop everything around (NexTag, Froogle, etc) to find the best price to my door for each piece. NewEgg comes up quite often on searches so far!

Will do some more research & post an updated list for further comments tonight!

Cheers.

[Jimmy0]

A high end Intel Core 2 Duo system will blow any AMD unit out of the water at the moment, and I would definitely recommend it seeing as you can afford it.

Also, I would advise against buying components from different places, buying it from one place is more sensible; you can keep warranties in check because they are from the same place, also you can save on different p+p costs when buying all from the same place.

[alynch_2000]

Took a bit longer than I wanted but have now done some more research and would agree that Core 2 Duo does appear to be the way to go.

Based on that have updated the build list as below:

• CPU - Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor - Model BX80557E6600
• MB - ASUS P5B Deluxe Socket T (LGA 775) Intel P965 Express ATX
• CPU FAN - COOLER MASTER RR-LCH-P9E1 92mm UFO CPU Cooler
• MEMORY - Kingston HyperX 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) KHX6400D2K2/2G
• VIDEO - 2 x ASUS EN7600GS SILENT/HTD/512M GeForce 7600GS 512MB GDDR2 PCI Express x16 Video Card
• HDD - 2 x WD Caviar SE WD1200JS 120GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s (RAID 0)
• PSU - ENERMAX Noisetaker II EG701AX VE(W) SFMA ATX12V Ver 2.2 600W Power Supply
• CASE - Thermaltake SOPRANO VB1000BWS Black ATX Mid Tower
• OPTICAL - LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Model LH-20A1H-185

All of above is just under $1500.00 (delivered to door) at newegg.

Greatest concern at this point is quality of the selected components. Any advice, personal experiences or known issues with the above would be greatly appreciated!

Also if I have any compatibility errors please point that out too!

Thank you all.

[maddawg]

It looks like you know more about this stuff than I do. I'm a noob just wondering what the Raid 0 is?

[alynch_2000]

Don't be fooled... Very much a noob here too!

RAID 0 - Refers to the two drives being recognized as 1 physical drive, a "striped set". Data is broken down into different packets and split between the two drives. It is mostly for speed - when the CPU/system is capable of processing info faster than a single drive can read or write it helps speed things up - one drive can look up the next required packet while the other is processing the current requirement.

Problem with RAID 0 is there is no security or redundancy - if one drive crashes you loose all data on both drives.

I am looking for sufficient capacity with speed and back up very regularly so am comfortable with this setup.

This is just my very basic understanding though - some of the gurus on this site could give you a much better explanation!!

Cheers.

[flanzig1]

Just a thought: a 7950GTX would probably beat the 2 7600GS in sli.

[newbuilder14]

The P5B Deluxe cannot handle SLI so you cannot make use of two 7600gs video cards - just go for one good single card.

Another note, the CPU cooler really isn't necessary - your Core 2 Duo E6600 retail package will come with an ample cooling device.

[alynch_2000]

Originally Posted by newbuilder14 The P5B Deluxe cannot handle SLI so you cannot make use of two 7600gs video cards - just go for one good single card.

Thanks. I missed that.

I am not especially comfortable with a 512MB video card as I want this to last a while & the demands on the video cards are constantly increasing.

So the question becomes, do I drop the additional +/-$200 it will cost me to get a single 1GB video card or do I swap out the motherboard to something that is SLI ready?

Any suggestions?

[newbuilder14]

Put it this way, the games do not rely on the memory nearly as much as they do rely on the graphics processing power. So, a 512mb card with low clock speeds will not nearly perform as well as a 256mb card with very high clock speeds.

I would ditch the idea of SLI personally - since DX10 will be running full blast eventually and DX9 cards will be sought as obsolete - in the amount of time you said, 4-5 years.

How about an X1950Pro from ATI or a 7900GS from Nvidia?

[alynch_2000]

Thanks again. I wasn't aware that the importance of the clock speed outweighed the memory so much.

Am now considering the ASUS EN7950GT/HTDP/512M GeForce 7950GT - 550MHz & 512MB. Should be sufficient and I save a few bucks vs. the 2 x 7600.

Seems like a good compromise between speed & memory?

[newbuilder14]

That card is very good, but I'd go with this version: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130066

[alynch_2000]

That was the other one I was considering. Okay - so that settles the video card.

Any comments/concerns on the other components?

[Alaron]

Switch to this Lite-On: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106050 Same drive but with Nero burning software.

[cobx9]

I'm interested in seeing how this turns out, I'm thinking of purchasing a very similar colletion of parts. Keep me/us posted alynch.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Swap out the kingston for some corsair XMS2. And your processor does come with a heatsink fan assembly, by swapping it out for a aftermarket one you do void your processor warranty. If thats not something your worried about then I would suggest a better cooler such as the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 pro or a XP90 paired up with a proper fan.

[Smidget]

Originally Posted by alynch_2000 Took a bit longer than I wanted but have now done some more research and would agree that Core 2 Duo does appear to be the way to go. Based on that have updated the build list as below: CPU - Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz LGA 775 Processor - Model BX80557E6600 MB - ASUS P5B Deluxe Socket T (LGA 775) Intel P965 Express ATX CPU FAN - COOLER MASTER RR-LCH-P9E1 92mm UFO CPU Cooler MEMORY - Kingston HyperX 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) KHX6400D2K2/2G VIDEO - 2 x ASUS EN7600GS SILENT/HTD/512M GeForce 7600GS 512MB GDDR2 PCI Express x16 Video Card HDD - 2 x WD Caviar SE WD1200JS 120GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s (RAID 0) PSU - ENERMAX Noisetaker II EG701AX VE(W) SFMA ATX12V Ver 2.2 600W Power Supply CASE - Thermaltake SOPRANO VB1000BWS Black ATX Mid Tower OPTICAL - LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Model LH-20A1H-185 All of above is just under $1500.00 (delivered to door) at newegg. Greatest concern at this point is quality of the selected components. Any advice, personal experiences or known issues with the above would be greatly appreciated! Also if I have any compatibility errors please point that out too! Thank you all.

Question:
Does a CPU fan come with the Core 2 Duo? Or does it require a higher quality CPU fan?

[Jimmy0]

When you buy a retail processor it will come with a fan, and if you are just running everything stock and not overclocking, then it will be fine - because that is what it is specifically designed to do.

Also if you change the fan you void the warranty on your processor.

[glc]

I'd save some cash and get a single Seagate 7200.10 hard drive. It's just about as fast as a Raptor and definitely faster than those JS drives. The speed increase of RAID 0 is really just not there except under certain conditions and is not worth the extra complications to me. If you really want RAID 0, then do it with a pair of 7200.10's and you will have a TON of storage space, I believe the 320's are under $100 each.

You may want to get just a placeholder video card to tide you over till DX10 and Vista is out there in force. You can get a decent serviceable card for 100 bucks. When you are ready to do Vista and DX10, then get a DX10 video card and the additional 2gb of ram.

[piXel]

Originally Posted by Alaron Have you considered an Intel Core 2 Duo based build? They really will outperform anything from AMD right now, and will give you a bit more longevity in the system overall. And I would also avoid TigerDirect, they have a reputation for poor customer service. We recommend www.newegg.com here. Here is our list of good and bad power supplies. http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195

In real world gaming benchmarks that is not true both intel and AMD processors perform litterly the same. http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/articl...50aHVzaWFzdA==

[glc]

That article only looks at the FX-62 vs. the E6700 and X6800. You need to look at articles that look at the whole range of both processors. They even admit the E6700 edges the FX-62 out slightly - and the E6700 is $90 cheaper than a FX-62.

Compare the E6600 to the equivalent priced AMD - see what numbers you get. That would probably be a 5200+ Windsor. Looks to me even the E6600 gives the FX-62 a run for its money.

[Alaron]

Thank you glc. I found a few more reviews that look at more CPUs from both sides.

Productivity Benchmarks: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...2014646,00.asp

It's clear that Intel's Core 2 Duo lineup offers superior performance across the product line when compared with AMD's Athlon 64 X2. In some applications, even a lower-cost Core 2 Duo can outperform some of the higher-end Athlon 64 X2s.

Gaming Benchmarks: http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1996932,00.asp

When you consider all six games, the winner becomes abundantly clear. There's not a single game where the Core 2 Duo didn't deliver a higher average frame rate.

I don't want to turn this into an AMD/Intel debate, and it is not fair to alynch to hijack this thread, but I did want to show that my earlier remark is true.

[piXel]

Originally Posted by glc That article only looks at the FX-62 vs. the E6700 and X6800. You need to look at articles that look at the whole range of both processors. They even admit the E6700 edges the FX-62 out slightly - and the E6700 is $90 cheaper than a FX-62. Compare the E6600 to the equivalent priced AMD - see what numbers you get. That would probably be a 5200+ Windsor. Looks to me even the E6600 gives the FX-62 a run for its money.

Well someone at Extremeoverclocking decided to do a benchmark of a OC'd 4400 vs 6600 here are the results the clock speeds are slighlt higher then 6600 but never the less. http://forums.extremeoverclocking.co...d.php?t=240313

There is an article on toms hardware somewhere cant find it though.

[Alaron]

But the AMD cpu in that thread is not at stock speeds. Of course overclocking will change things.

[glc]

And if we are going to go THERE, the C2D's overclock insanely.

Remember that Alaron is an AMD fan - and he is accepting current reality. Things will be different down the road I'm sure, AMD and Intel keep trading shots and places. AMD thoroughly spanked the Pentium-D.

I'm an Intel fan, but the only reason I don't go along with AMD recommendations right now is the AM2 memory architecture. It is not efficient and is a step backwards from 939 in my opinion. I'll take a good 939 over a P-D.

[piXel]

Originally Posted by glc And if we are going to go THERE, the C2D's overclock insanely. Remember that Alaron is an AMD fan - and he is accepting current reality. Things will be different down the road I'm sure, AMD and Intel keep trading shots and places. AMD thoroughly spanked the Pentium-D. I'm an Intel fan, but the only reason I don't go along with AMD recommendations right now is the AM2 memory architecture. It is not efficient and is a step backwards from 939 in my opinion. I'll take a good 939 over a P-D.

I agree with you the c2d's are better but in games is what i'm on about and there isnt alot of difference atall, i have a English PC mag called Custom builder and they prove it aswell, for alot of other things C2d is faster but im just trying to prove a point that C2D doesent make AMD's equivalents worthless, i also took in Alaron's point correct me if im wrong and i overclocked my ram to 800 mhz, no really loads of difference though.

[glc]

I never said anything is worthless. You have to take reviews and benchmarks with a grain of salt. I can make anything I want look good by testing it in a certain way. Different sites have different biases.

Let's lay this one to rest, we don't want processor wars here. We like to think this site is above fanboy squabbles.

[piXel]

Originally Posted by glc I never said anything is worthless. You have to take reviews and benchmarks with a grain of salt. I can make anything I want look good by testing it in a certain way. Different sites have different biases. Let's lay this one to rest, we don't want processor wars here. We like to think this site is above fanboy squabbles.

Nooo i didn't say you said anything was worthless its just that many people treat it like that, i'm just saying AMD is not bad atall but Intel is slightly better but in actual games there isnt much difference I'm not a fan boy either if i was i would say AMD thrashes Intel and ok i wont mention anything more in this thread.