Neophyte's New Build Problems

[janb0725]

Please bare with me. Anyway here goes:

I was given a Pentium 4 Processor 530J supporting Hyper-threading technology
a D915GMH desktop motherboard with BTX Type 1 Thermal Module
Also included was a desktop chassis. They were sitting around for over a year but free is free so I took them.

So I put it together with
Western Digital Caviar 7200rpm 16mbs transfer and 250g's
4 sticks of Kingston DDR 512 ram

A salvaged TEAC CD-RW 44x (was working before I pulled it out of one of my old PC's)
A salvaged floppy

Now there was a speaker jumper for the Front Panel but no speaker in the chassis. I can pull one out from an old PC.

Anyway, in my excitment I closed the lid, and turned it on. The wonderful hum of the new build starting up was euphoric untill I realised I hadn't connected the monitor or keyboard.
After a couple of minutes the unit shut off. The only thing left on was the light on the "on switch"

After reading through the forum I think it could be insufficient power since the only thing I can read on the power supply that came with the desktop chassis says 250w, manufacturer is FSP?

I disconnected the floppy cable from the board and I disconnected the cd-rom from the board but all I get is a momentary flash of lights and slight movement of the BTX fan and nothing else.

I thought perhaps I may have seated the BTX incorrectly so I replaced (also after checking to make sure I installed the processor chip correctly). I'm not sure if I should have put some thermal paste on before reseating the BTX.

Did I burn I fry the mobo? Did I screw up the processor?

I hope I have given you all the info so perhaps you can help me. I suppose it was a lofty goal to create my own PC. At best i have only ever added components to my PC's like ram, ethernet cards and Video cards.

Help help help,
Thanks,
Jan

[wheredidiputmybeer]

Sorry im not much help but i think the power supply might struggle!

Good luck!

[janb0725]

Hmmm, perhaps a dumb question, but could I convert this to a tower because well frankly working on a destop is brutal to say the least.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by janb0725 Now there was a speaker jumper for the Front Panel but no speaker in the chassis. I can pull one out from an old PC.

Yes, but Intel motherboards usually have a small piezo speaker already mounted on the motherboard somewhere. It's a small round black plastic thing with a small hole on the top.

Originally Posted by janb0725 Anyway, in my excitment I closed the lid, and turned it on. The wonderful hum of the new build starting up was euphoric untill I realised I hadn't connected the monitor or keyboard. After a couple of minutes the unit shut off. The only thing left on was the light on the "on switch" After reading through the forum I think it could be insufficient power since the only thing I can read on the power supply that came with the desktop chassis says 250w, manufacturer is FSP?

250 watts isn't going to power that system, you need at least 300 watts. FSP (Fortron Source) is a good brand.

Originally Posted by janb0725 I disconnected the floppy cable from the board and I disconnected the cd-rom from the board but all I get is a momentary flash of lights and slight movement of the BTX fan and nothing else. I thought perhaps I may have seated the BTX incorrectly so I replaced (also after checking to make sure I installed the processor chip correctly). I'm not sure if I should have put some thermal paste on before reseating the BTX.

This BTX you're referring to...are you talking about the CPU heatsink? If it is be sure you've installed it correctly. The LGA775 heatsink is difficult to install if the motherboard is already installed in the case. LGA775 heatsink installation guide.

Originally Posted by janb0725 Did I burn I fry the mobo? Did I screw up the processor?

I don't believe so. I think you may have killed the power supply.

Originally Posted by janb0725 Hmmm, perhaps a dumb question, but could I convert this to a tower because well frankly working on a destop is brutal to say the least.

Yes, you can move these components to a tower case. If you do buy a new mid-tower case be sure it comes with a good quality power supply.

Cricket

[janb0725]

Hi Cricket,

Thanks so much for your response.

Okay, here's something that was not in any of the installation manuals that came with the chassis or board but I forgot to put in the standoffs. So I took everything out, put in them in, reinstalled all the other stuff, the sheets also say to install a fan (one in the back that is impossible because it's located under the power supply and one next to the Heat Sink Box,
but no directions on how to attach it. In my towers they are attached to the covers. Me thinks that they really don't want you to install it correctly. (They are Enermax fans which I understand from this forum is a fairly good brand)Why the H()*&*&^ would intel supply a chassis with insufficient power supply??????

Anyway, now that everything I THINK is put together according to the scketchy directions from intel the same thing is happening, as before, momentary flash, movement of the fan and all that is left is the light on the 'on' switch.

So do you still think it's the power supply before I blow more bucks??

Thanks again

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by janb0725 Okay, here's something that was not in any of the installation manuals that came with the chassis or board but I forgot to put in the standoffs.

Here's something you won't want to hear...there is a possibility that the motherboard got damaged when you installed it without any standoffs under it. Check the underside of the motherboard for any burnt spots, especially by the RAM, video card and CPU. I've seen motherboard get fried because the underside touched the mounting tray in the wrong spots.

Originally Posted by janb0725 Why the H()*&*&^ would intel supply a chassis with insufficient power supply??????

Just how old is that chassis? If it's kinda old then the power supply would have been fine to use with older parts. And does that power supply even have the appropriate power connectors? That Intel motherboard uses a 24 pin motherboard power connector as well as a 4 pin 12v power connector...does that power supply even have those connectors?

Originally Posted by janb0725 So do you still think it's the power supply before I blow more bucks??

Don't buy anything yet...you still have to troubleshoot this problem.

Cricket

[janb0725]

Just how old is that chassis? It's a year and a half old, came with the motherboard and processor.
Kinda old then the power supply would have been fine to use with older parts. And does that power supply even have the appropriate power connectors? YES
That Intel motherboard uses a 24 pin motherboard power connector as well as a 4 pin 12v power connector...does that power supply even have those connectors? Yes, and double yes.

I have to remove everything again to check out the back of the mother board.......man I hate desktops... I'll let you know the condition of the back. Anything specific I should look out for or will I see it right off?? I suppose I should have checked it out before I rei-installed it.

Thanks I really appreciate your help and patience.

Jan

[janb0725]

Cricket,
Okay, I stipped everything out down to the chassis. Took a good long look at the board, back and front and it still appears pristine. Good Sign?

Now what I was wondering, should there be any special o rings with the standoffs? They look like little stainless steel posts. In addition, they are only around the sides of the chassis and it looks like the middle of the board would touch the mounting plate?
Thanks,
Jan

[Cricket]

Follow the troubleshooting instructions found in this thread. You must remove the motherboard from the case when doing this and you just assemble the core components together (motherboard, CPU, CPU heatsink, 1 stick of RAM, video card, power supply, keyboard and monitor). Let us know what happens.

Cricket

[janb0725]

K. removed everything and placed it on a cardboard box. The fan comes on and the led's light up but no beeps, nothing on the monitor and the BTX heatsink fan doesn't budge.
I was wondering if maybe I should remove the CMOS battery as described elsewhere?

Jan

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by janb0725 K. removed everything and placed it on a cardboard box. The fan comes on and the led's light up but no beeps, nothing on the monitor and the BTX heatsink fan doesn't budge.

If you only have the motherboard, CPU, heatsink, 1 stick of RAM, video card, PC case speaker, keyboard, power supply and monitor hooked up then it sounds like one of those core components is defective. At this point I couldn't tell you which one it could be. Personally, I'd try another compatible, more powerful power supply first.

Cricket

[janb0725]

When I change the power supply is there a max? Earlier on you suggested 300 watts. BTW the heat sink that I have is a black box.(http://www.intel.com/support/motherb...CS-020836.htm). Quite a bit different, at least to me, then the link you provided earlier. Maybe I'm missing something. I'm thinking, let me know if I'm wrong, that when I tried the install on the cardboard, perhaps the heatsink could not attach properly?

In any event, I was thinking of purchasing the Enermax / Whisper II / 350-Watt / ATX / Dual 80mm Fans / 24-Pin / SATA-Ready / Power Supply. At this point too I think it's best if I clean the heat sink and processor and apply new thermail paste.

Your thoughts?

[glc]

Don't condemn the PSU yet - a 250 watt FSP can power that rig fine with onboard video, no addon cards, and one hard drive/one optical drive as long as it's not blown. Before buying a new one, borrow one for troubleshooting.

[janb0725]

The 'out of the case" trouble shooting I don't think will work in my scenario. The heatsink that came with the processor rests 90% on the mobo while the front 2 legs are on the
mounting plate of my evercase chassis. I have borrowed a 275 FSP power supply I'll I'll try the same scenerio but in the case.

[janb0725]

Okay, the 275 made no difference same thing as before, However, one thing I did note. When I was testing the board outside the box the power supply was fine however the fan on the boxed heatsink did not move even slightly. My question now is the specs for the Evercase chassis say that this requires a CFX power supply? I'm looking at all the power supplies and I'm not really sure what the difference is?

[glc]

CFX is just a form factor - electrically it's identical to ATX. At this point, I think you are looking at a defective motherboard - or something still connected to it that's shorting something - or incorrect cable installation.

1. The processor fan must be a 4 pin, and connected to the 4 pin CPU fan connector.
2. If the power supply is a 24 pin or 20+4 pin, you need to connect that connector and the auxiliary P4 2x2 connector.
3. If the power supply is only a 20 pin, connect that and the auxiliary P4, *AND* connect a standard 1x4 4 pin to that socket on the board.

The detailed installation manual can be downloaded from Intel as a PDF.

[janb0725]

Well, after all this, that may be the problem, The Quick Integration Guide provided with the board pointed to all 3 power locations but did not specify that the 4 pin was not necessary with a 2x12 pin.

I suppose now my question is what have I damaged? And what would be your replacement suggestion?

[glc]

The only warning I see is possible damage if you do not hook up the 2x2. If you are using a known good power supply connected as directed and a CPU is properly socketed, a 4 pin CPU fan should start and continue running. Ram is actually optional for this test. Have you removed the CPU from the socket and checked for bent or broken pins?

[janb0725]

no pins, it's a 530j drop and lock. I've checked it like 10 times to make sure I seated it correctly in the socket.

[glc]

I am referring to the pins in the motherboard socket........

[janb0725]

The little copper pins? They are almost impossible to see. I took a magnifying class and they all appear fine.

[janb0725]

Does it matter if the power supply I use to test this system is not on the "a" list? I have borrowed a PowerUp

Dual Fan Power! 400W
Dual 80mm Fans Plus Fan Controller
This power supply was specifically designed to work with the Athlon systems and is Pentium 4 ready. With a 400-watt capacity This power supply even features a fan speed controller!

Specifications
Dimensions (WxHxD): 6 x 3.6 x 6.6 inches
Material: All metal construction
AC Input: 115/230, 10A/6A, 60Hz/50Hz
Max Load: +3.3@28A, +5@30A, +12@25A, -5@0.3A, -12@0.8A, +5vsb@2A
MTBF: 100K hrs at 25°C ambient conditions
Efficiency: 70% Min. at full load
Overvoltage Protection: On all outputs
Shortage Protection: On all outputs
Cooling: Dual fan for ultra cooling environment
Noise Level: Maximum of 37db at 100% system loading
Safety: UL, CB, CE, TUV, and FCC

I was also wondering if the D915GMH board with the 915G chipset that I have with the P4 Hyperthreader has the built in Heat protector. IE., System would shut down before the processor got fried.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by janb0725 Does it matter if the power supply I use to test this system is not on the "a" list? I have borrowed a PowerUp.

PowerUp power supplies are rubbish but as long as it's working okay it's okay to test with it. I just wouldn't use it on a permanent basis.

Originally Posted by janb0725 I was also wondering if the D915GMH board with the 915G chipset that I have with the P4 Hyperthreader has the built in Heat protector. IE., System would shut down before the processor got fried.

The thermal protection circuit is in the Intel processor. But the motherboard will work to protect the CPU if it gets the shutdown or throttle down signal from the processor.

Cricket

[janb0725]

So I used a cheap 400W power supply and now when I try to start the board using a screw driver between the power switch pins I don't get a response. Previously I could hear atleast a click when the power supply attempted to start. So I thing the board is dead.

So my thoughts are that this chassis was a pain to work in so I think I will purchase an Asus bare bones kit. I would like to make use of the DDR400 ram that I bought ( 4 sticks of 512) ,the Western Digital Caviar Harddrive and my Intel p4 hyperthreading chip with Nidec Heatsink. Any recommendations?

[janb0725]

Well, I have to conceded there must be something wrong with my motherboard.

With the parts I have left I would still like to build a system. I'm not a gamer, primarily
web publishing.

I have 4 sticks of Kingston ddr 400 Ram
Pentium 4 530J hyperthreader CPU (Prescott)
NIDEC ( similar to the Thermaltake Safari) Thermal Type 1 CPU cooler
Western Digital Caviar HD 250gigs

Getting another D915GMH motherboard has been next to impossible. Do you know of any similar boards for the micro BTX? Seems like everyone has bailed.

I was looking at the Asus Pundit PH3 bare bones kit.

Your suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Jan