Older gaming computer for the family - $624.66. Please Critique

[DarkPacMan77]

Budget Gamer PC – Grand Total $624.66

Please actually read through this before leaving feedback.

RAM $90
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820609219


• DDR2 667 (PC2 5400)
• 2x 1gb
• Cas Latency – 5
• Dual-channel

Case + Power Supply $100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129155

• One 120mm fan included
• Reliable power supply included
• Usually this case has a good rebate

Motherboard $75
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813138034


• Pci-e support at full x16 speed
• Core 2 duo support
• 4 memory slots of 240 pin DDR2 667
• 4 SATA 3.0 slots
• 3 pci slots
• Maximum Memory Supported - 4gb
• Supports dual channel ram

Hard Drive Disk $68
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148142

• 250gb
• SATA 3.0
• 7200 rpm
• 8mb cache

Processor $96
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116262

• dual core Pentium D
• (800fsb)
• 3.2ghz
• 2x 2mb L2 cache

Graphics Processing Unit $165
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150229

• GeForce 8600GT
• 256MB
• 128-bit GDDR3

Accessories needed:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835100007
arctic silver $6

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Description:
The computer is a moderate to high level gaming computer on an extreme budget. The Motherboard is good quality, even though biostar makes some iffy boards. It supports 3 pci slots as well as gives 1 pci-e x16 slot for gaming. The ram isn’t the best quality per se, but it is a cheap 2gb pair of dual channel ram at 667 speed that is [now] $90. Supertalent or not, if the ram works, it works well and if it doesn’t, then returning it is more than possible. The case is an amazing case and comes with one 120mm fan in the back. I have extra fans on hand that I can use as well, and will use, so I don’t think additional cooling is needed but it may be because of the processor. Speaking of which, the processor is a GREAT processor and for the price it simply can’t be beat. It’s a Pentium D 935 Presler dual core 3.2ghz model that pumps at 800 front side bus and has 2x 2mb L2 cache for only 96 clams… which is extremely more than enough of an upgrade from our current Pentium 4 1.8ghz lol. The power supply that is included with the case is great, though some units of that model are iffy after about a year so I’d probably test it occasionally by then [monthly]. The hard drive is OEM and will need a sata cable if the one included with the mobo is too short or w/e, and even though the processor is retail, it doesn’t mention that it comes with thermal paste. If it did, and with my previous knowledge of moderately high-temp Pentium D processors, I’d probably just opt to buy the arctic silver anyway.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Future Proofing:
Maybe the most amazing thing about this cheap gaming computer is that it actually is able to be upgraded quite extensively. There are four 240 pin modules for ddr2 667 ram, and since 667 ram is priced very well, 4gb of ram is not far from a reality if I were to need more ram. Also, the motherboard can support core 2 duo processors at their full speed and fsb of 1066, so upgrading the cpu is also possible… but really not needed lol. The 8600gt should speak for itself. It’s more powerful than the 7900 gs series and is directX 10 instead of 9. The memory interface is only 128, but it still beats all other cards in its range and there will be no issues keeping up with the best of the best for years to come. The hard drive is large, and there’s more where that comes from because the motherboard has 4 SATA 3.0 slots on the motherboard which can mean some serious storage space - or a SATA optical drive if I wish.

So what do YOU guys think?

[Kilauea]

I might be wrong, but I'd probably got for an E4300 (at 119$) instead of the pentium D.

The 8600 GT is supposed to replace the 7600, not the 7900 which is replaced by the 8600 GTS.

Besides that I can't really say anything about the mobo since I do not know it, but I heard Biostar wasn't the best maker of mobo.

The HD, well this one is cheaper http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822144422

The case is effectively a very good one.

[Katreat]

I have to agree with Kilauea about the processor. The pentium D was good in its day, and may game up a storm, but it will run hot. Spend a few more bucks and you get new technology, better performance, and C2D run cool, which will insure you dont need to pile in a bunch of those dusty/noisy fans you have laying around.

As for the 8600, if you are on that tight of a budget I would stick with a 7600GT. With current rebates you can find them for under $100, saving you ~ $70 or so which you can spend on the processor. There are no 10X games out yet and Vista is still quite new, why buy a low performance 10X card. Put in a nice 9X card of equal performance now and upgrade to 10X when you need it. I would not be surpised if future 10X games will require more card anyway so it is a good place to take a wait and see attitude.

I have never worked with Biostar but have read a lot of bad reviews on them. Personally, because changing the mobo is kind of a bitch, that is one place I would tend to spend the dollars for quality. You talk about upgrades and one of the main features of quality boards like Asus is longevity. You might get very lucky with Biostar, but I would prefer less of a gamble on the mobo.

I think you make light of a very time consuming process. I think all ram has a life time warrenty so if I was going to use cheep ram I would go buy it a staples so I can return it and get my next set the same day. As good as Newegg is, it still takes 5+ days to return and get replacement, do you really want your whole system sitting there for that long waiting on a stick of ram?

Personally, if I just wanted a fast/cheep gaming build I would look at AMD, there are some really nice deals out there and since you are not really building in upgradability using less expensive and lower quality parts is less of a gamble. If I wanted to build a computer for future upgradeability I would stick with Quality parts which have a reputation for logevity.

Kat

[DarkPacMan77]

Thanks a ton for both of your feedback. I am going to address the things you both brought up if you don't mind.

Since we agree that it would probably get a little on the warm side, what precautions should I take to keep it more cool. I don't want to do liquid cooling, but the extra fans I have are pretty quiet (one 120mm/ two 80mm). I'd probably want to hook up a zalman cooler to the cpu if I wanted to get the most out of the hot cpu right?

The e4300 is one of the 800 fsb models right? I'd like core 2 duo but at the same time, the pentium D line is still an extremely powerful processor. The pentium D also has 800 fsb but more L2 cache and it may actually beat that e4300 in tests... I'm not too sure. The issue of temperature is a problem, and I've mentioned that before. Also Kat brings up the issue of the dusty fans lol. Both true and I've considered core 2 duo already actually - but I ended up choosing to get the 8600gt instead of the 7600gt that I originally picked out We had the same ideas guys lol, but I think it's best to get medium grade vista graphics with dx10 instead of high end "XP" graphics without dx10. I'm more than fine on medium or even low settings for gaming. I've been with onboard graphics for the past 6 years - trust me, I'd love it still. Also, the 8600gt actually does beat the 7900gt line, even though it isn't "meant" to replace it, so it's a good choice in that fashion too.

The mobo and ram are the main issues I think. Biostar makes good motherboards though. Biostar had rough times before but in order to make better products, they've basically got the worst tech support on earth now... so that's a downside, but the upside is Newegg. Also, with the ram, I really don't think there is a better deal available. I am a very patient person. I'd wait for the whole ordeal if I were to need to RMA or something (even more than once) but those sticks are selling like hotcakes and people from Newegg and other sites have said that it even overclocks pretty decently - more than expected from $90 ram. I feel pretty comfy with it.

Bottom line. If it works, it works well, but I understand that it is a little iffy to get started and may get a little warm. I may upgrade to core 2 duo but I think I'm using the processor as a place holder and getting a better graphics card instead of getting a worse graphics card and spending more on the cpu. I just may opt for a zalman cooler after a bit though.

~~~
Why I don't choose the AMD platform - I'd rather get a Pentium D 935 3.2ghz w/ 2x 2mb L2 cache than an Athlon 64 X2 3800+.... which for the price, the Intel takes the cake on this one. I've considered AMD with a Athlon 64 X2 6000+ build but I think that's overkill for the use of this computer in my home.

[Alaron]

If you are already set on all of your parts and are defending them, why are you asking for our opinion? If you like those parts, by all means buy them. We can only suggest improvements, its your decision in the end.

[DarkPacMan77]

I know how the whole deal works Alaron I've helped here quite a bit. The only thing is that I know two of the parts are more on the "iffy" side, but I really think they'd work just fine. I'm all ears for different suggestions of motherboards in the same price range though.

Usually, when someone posts a build, it's common for glc to come and destroy what they think is good lol, so that's perhaps why I am more on the defensive side. I apologize.

-DarkPacMan77-

[Alaron]

My main suggestion was to swap the Biostar for an Asus. The Asus P5L-MX is the same price, with the Asus name: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131041 Worth a look.

Otherwise the list is solid. Let us know how that 8600GT performs.

[DarkPacMan77]

I like the board and all... but honestly, the plan would be to throw another 2gb of ram in there, and that board only offers 2 dimm slots. I'm going to have to ignore it even though the name is tempting.

I have also chosen to get an evga 7600gt to save the extra $65 and I'm just going to reuse an older hard drive to save money in that area and instead get the e6300. My total was cut down to $537 I think it was, so that's all well and good for me.

I also changed my case to something I like a little more. The Raidmax Smilodon case w/ 500W power supply. Since I cut the gpu down a bit, I'm ok with using that power supply for a few months - but do you guys recommend it? I can't find any info on the power supply bundled with that case.

thanks for any more info

[Alaron]

No, if you are going to cut back on the budget, the PSU is never the place to do it. Raidmax units are junk. Stick with the Sonata, the PSU is a winner.

[DarkPacMan77]

I know ... I know... it's just that I really like the look and ease that the Raidmax Smilodon offers in comparison to the (still user friendly) Sonata II - but I'd have to agree with you. The Sonata II is most likely the path to choose. I actually had looked up the psu on newegg (the 450W smartpower 2.0 I think it is) that comes with the Sonata II, and it got really junky reviews.

I know not to credit reviews on newegg too highly, but they were just junk... but then again, I've been a member of this forum for a long time and nobody has once said, "that Sonata II case is a waste of money"

thanks for all of your help guys, and I'm most likely going to have more later on.

[doubledragon5]

Most reviews I would ingnore, I have used all antecs accept this last time and they were fine.. If you like the style of Raidmax then so be, but it will cost you more if that psu goes and takes your system with it... ASUS is far better than biostar, but in the end it is your choice, and your money...

[flanzig1]

If you like the Raidmax case get it but get a good quailty ATX 2.0 PSU. The PSU that comes with the Raidmax looks to be an older ATX 1 type supply. PCI-E really should be run with ATX 2.0 type PSUs. They will have the correct connectors for 24 pin mobos and PCI-E video cards.

[Mr.Ferrari]

If you think the 450W Antec is junk, then the Raidmax psu is bird dung.

I agree that the Smartpower series are not the most reliable long term when paired up with demanding components, but its sure better then ALOT of the junk psu's out there. Its still good for low to mid range builds.

Something like the AMS 460w or FSP 450w would be better choices. Remember the 8600GT does consume more power then the 7600gt.

[DarkPacMan77]

Yes, I've actually decided to go with kingston 667 ram (2x 1gb) for $90 instead of that supertalent stuff. I didn't realize that kingston went for the same price... Also, I've decided to get an Intel Core 2 Duo E6320 processor instead of the E6300. I've picked out another motherboard but I won't be home for two days and I didn't remember the exact model so I'm either going to search for it or I am going to ask you guys about it later.

I'm also going to use the sonata II. I know the raidmax psu is just not worth chancing even though I like that case. I've narrowed my case selection down to those two and the sonata II is just the most obvious choice.

I've decided not to get a new hard drive at this time in order to pick up the c2d over the pentium D (mainly for possible heat isues in the future).

Good choices?

[Mr.Ferrari]

Thats fine. So what your saying is you didn't pick out the P5L-MX or the Biostar listed earlier?

[oryx]

Don't you also need an optical drive and an operating system?

[DarkPacMan77]

I'm using my optical from my current computer and using my brothers ol' xp disc. That will work right?

This is the motherboard I am looking at now: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157104

To me it seems just as ok as the other boards that were mentioned. ASRock is a branch of Asus right? - for more flunky mobos? lol

edit* will that mobo bottleneck anything at stock speed?

[Mr.Ferrari]

Well first of all, a XP reinstall or repair disc that the manufacturers of pre-builts (dell) bundle will not install xp, it will only reinstall it from that one hard drive and computer. If what your talking about is a retail or OEM XP CD, then no that will not work either, only one copy per computer. And if this is a cracked or pirated copy, then no thats illegal.

Yes Asrock is a branch of Asus but it is lower tier. Meaning its not gonna be made with the quality that Asus boards are made.

[DarkPacMan77]

I'm not one for piracy, so let's get that out of the way first. But anyways, I will just have my sister pick up an xp disc when she can. She's in college and they sell them cheap to the students.

Anyways though, with that motherboard that I picked out, do you think it fits the bill?

[Alaron]

I don't see any reason to choose a lower quality brand like Asrock when the Asus P5L-MX is the same price and is known to be a good board.

[DarkPacMan77]

I don't mean to be much of a shocker, but due to recent events, my budget for this build has just doubled. I was looking at this motherboard but I don't understand the form factor. What is uATX and is it compatible with the Sonata II?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131178

thanks again

[Alaron]

uATX is micro-ATX, and just means it is a bit smaller then standard ATX motherboards. This is a common form factor for boards that have onboard video, such as the P5B-VM.

The Sonata can fit both types of boards, so you're all set.

[DarkPacMan77]

well the main choice of motherboard would be the p5b dh deluxe. It's pricy though, so I may cut back to that board, and thanks for the clarification on the mobo. I haven't ever heard of micro ATX being called uATX.

Also, since my build has changed drastically, is it ok if I create a new topic for my build (since it has changed entirely)? This one can be locked/ deleted.

thanks

[doubledragon5]

It is better that you post your undated list in this thread...

[DarkPacMan77]

It's not even updated, it's entirely new. I'll delete this one myself if I can.

*edit* can't on this forum. That's ok though. I will post the second build tomorrow.

[doubledragon5]

I do not believe you can delete your current thread.. Just repost you new list..