Lookin to build a system!

[CleanChucks]

OK you guys are going to have to bear with me, I'm completely new to this. I think putting the whole system together would go fine, but configuring it and installing all the software etc would be way above my head.

I don't even know what BIOS, overclocking, etc etc are (at least I didn't until I wiki'ed them)...

I'm not looking to build a top-of-the-line system, just something that can run multiple applications and some of the newer games smoothly. I have a nice 32" tv/monitor which I plan on keeping, and a decent set of speakers so I'm not looking into all the extras, just the actual pc. My budget doesn't really have a limit, but I'd rather keep it <$1500, and obviously as cheap as possible without sacrificing any performance.

I see that people are generally choosing AMD or Intel, and tbh I don't really know the difference, so I obv don't know which I'd prefer.

I'm currently running a Dell Dimension 3000 (don't laugh ) with a cheap LG dvd burner that I installed. Not sure if any of the parts are worth saving from it...

In general, is it cheaper to build your own pc? I think it would be a lot more fun building my own rather than just getting one from dell or wherever, but if it'll be significantly cheaper getting a prebuilt system, then I would. I'd still love to build one, though - it would be a nice little project.

The thing that first turned me on to building my own was: http://tools.corsairmemory.com/syste...id=12472&sid=2

(how much would that system come to, and is it solid?)

Anyways, any help is MUCH appreciated.

cheers

-ChuckTs

[SpydaMan]

I am working on my first build as well, so you are not alone. The people on here are VERY helpful, so listen to EVERYTHING they tell you. Good luck!!!

[Staren]

Welcome to PCMech. I think you'll find us pretty helpful. Generally yes it is a bit cheaper to build your own system. The gap gets a little bigger the high end of a system you build. Anything about sub $700 you get to the point where the prebuilds are more practical, but I personally will never buy a gaming system again.

The real reason most people end up building their own though is the customazation that can be done. You get exactly what "you" need. Nothing more nothing less.

The Intel - AMD debate is pretty easy right now. The Intel Core 2 Duo processors beat anything else out right now, and noone argues that point. Core 2s range from $160 to $900 and anywhere in between so you can find a CPU in your price range that will work great.

What budget were you thinking about? There's a pretty good range under $1,500. Actually if you went all the way up to $1500 you kind of hit top of the line where anything more has serious diminishing returns or is just gravy extras. That's what I mean when I say the gap gets bigger the higher end the system. The actual usability diffrence between a $1,500 box and a $2,000 when you build your own is pretty minimal unlike when you buy a prebuild. Most people do their first build somewhere between $900 and $1200 just so they aren't putting down too much money on the first go around, but that would give you a solid mid high-end gaming system that will last you for good while. You can of course go higher if you'd like.

[CleanChucks]

Originally Posted by Staren What budget where you thinking about? Most people do their first build somewehre between $900 and $1200 just so they arn't putting down too much money on the first go around, but that would give you a solid mid high-end gaming system that will last you for good while.

That sounds about perfect for me. $1200 sounds good; I can go a couple hundred more if necessary. I just want to make sure I don't build a system that finds itself obsolete in a couple years.

[CleanChucks]

Oh, another thing.

I live in Toronto (Canada), and don't really know where the 'best' place to buy components is. I know where a bunch of PC stores are, but will buying them online be cheaper for me or more expensive?

[SpydaMan]

Originally Posted by ChuckTs I live in Toronto (Canada), and don't really know where the 'best' place to buy components is. I know where a bunch of PC stores are, but will buying them online be cheaper for me or more expensive?

I am not sure about shipping charges to Canada, but I have been told to buy from www.newegg.com and stay away from www.tigerdirect.com.

Blake

[Alaron]

Newegg does not ship to Canada.

Chuck, we usually recommend www.ncix.com

Here is a list to start with:
Asus P5B motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
2GB DDR2-667 Corsair RAM
eVGA 8800GTS 320MB Video Card
Seagate 320GB 7200.10 SATA Hard drive.
LiteOn SATA DVD Burner - Retail
Any case you like
Corsair 520HX Power supply.

That comes out to around $1200 US.

Is the 1200 figure you mentioned in US or CAD? We can tweak the list if necessary.

[jer888]

Originally Posted by ChuckTs Oh, another thing. I live in Toronto (Canada), and don't really know where the 'best' place to buy components is. I know where a bunch of PC stores are, but will buying them online be cheaper for me or more expensive?

Yeah Newegg is the best but they don't do Canada.... yet

Id make you a list of parts but m not familiar with the Canadian online stores

EDIT: beat to it

[CleanChucks]

Originally Posted by Alaron Newegg does not ship to Canada. Chuck, we usually recommend www.ncix.com Here is a list to start with: Asus P5B motherboard Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2GB DDR2-667 Corsair RAM eVGA 8800GTS 320MB Video Card Seagate 320GB 7200.10 SATA Hard drive. LiteOn SATA DVD Burner - Retail Any case you like Corsair 520HX Power supply. That comes out to around $1200 US. Is the 1200 figure you mentioned in US or CAD? We can tweak the list if necessary.

That looks lovely

USD is fine.

[Staren]

Here is a bit more detailed list I tossed together. It's the P5B motherboard / Core 2 6600 combo that has become the standard recamendation around here in the last few months for a very good reason. It's in US $ and linked to Newegg since I know the site, but we can tweak the list to NCIX no problem. This gives about $200 to play with for a case and any little things like card readers you might want.

ASUS P5B LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131030
$119.99

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115003
$226.00

Crucial 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) System Memory – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146526
$85.99

EVGA GeForce 8800GTS 320MB PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130082
$279.99

Corsair 520Watt Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139001
$124.99

Seagate Barracuda 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive – OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148140
$79.99

Lite-On 20x DVD-RW SATA Drive – OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106057
$38.99

Total: 955.94

[CleanChucks]

*rubs hands together in exitement*

This is looking just plain tasty.

I'm going to look up the stores in my area to see what they hold in stock, and compare the prices to the online listings.

[LeftyAce]

Do you have an operating system factored in? Add another $90 for XP.

[CleanChucks]

Good point. I do have the installation cd from my dell; will it install on the new pc (and is it legal, or do I have to buy another copy?)

[Alaron]

Nope. Windows installs from Dell computers are tied to the Dell BIOS and cannot be transferred. You'll have to buy one.

[jer888]

yes but however, do NOT go to the store and get a retail copy. Go online and get a OEM copy for 90 bucks. Its the same thing just less expensive

[CleanChucks]

Originally Posted by Staren Here is a bit more detailed list I tossed together. It's the P5B motherboard / Core 2 6600 combo that has become the standard recamendation around here in the last few months for a very good reason. It's in US $ and linked to Newegg since I know the site, but we can tweak the list to NCIX no problem. This gives about $200 to play with for a case and any little things like card readers you might want. ASUS P5B LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard – Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131030 $119.99 Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz 4M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor – Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115003 $226.00 Crucial 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) System Memory – Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146526 $85.99 EVGA GeForce 8800GTS 320MB PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130082 $279.99 Corsair 520Watt Power Supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139001 $124.99 Seagate Barracuda 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive – OEM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148140 $79.99 Lite-On 20x DVD-RW SATA Drive – OEM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106057 $38.99 Total: 955.94

Could you provide a list from NCIX for me if it's not too much trouble?

tbh I'm having trouble finding the items on their site; I sometimes think I've found the item, then it's listed for hundreds more...

Thanks

[Staren]

Man that site is a pain to search. Not the best organized.

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...ufacture=Intel

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...ufacture=Intel

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...acture=CORSAIR

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...nufacture=eVGA

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...acture=CORSAIR

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...acture=Seagate

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...facture=Liteon

[CleanChucks]

Thanks a bunch, Staren!

Can I reuse my power supply from my dell?
http://www.pcpower.com/products/view....php?show=S47D

[Staren]

I'm going to let one of the more experienced members field that one. I'm not a PSU expert and can't tell if that's a Dell proprietary design or not. It looks ok on first glance, but I can't really tell. It's 2:00 AM here. If no one answers by morning I'll do more detailed search.

[CleanChucks]

Just an update; I went to a local pc store (R.O.T. computer on college, very helpful guys) and bought a case and power supply.

The guy, who was very helpful and didn't pressure me like i expected him to, basically said that a lot of the components you guys suggested are more common in the states and aren't easy to get a hold of here. He was japanese and tbh the language barrier didn't help, but he suggested a few different things:

P5B-E
P5WS 64 pro
P5D2G 65
P5B DLX wifi

(all Asus?)

for motherboards, and of course I have no idea what the differences are...

He said that crucial memory is hard to get a hold of, and to get 'brand name' (kingston, corsair etc) 2G memory that isn't 667 (again, I have no idea what this means).

The corsair power supply is something that's also apparantly hard to get a hold of, and he sold me a seasonic S12+ 550W for 125 canadian. It's apparently made by the same manufacturer as the corsair.

The case I got was a cheap (~$50 CAD) TK-6330B mid-tower.

I ended up buying just the case + power supply, and decided to wait to buy the motherboard and the rest since I'm really not sure what to get right now. So $190 for the case and the power supply. I know cases can run up to hundreds, so I'm happy with the one I got

Anyways, I'm ranting, but what do you think about the motherboards + memory he suggested?

[Alaron]

This Corsair that Staren linked to earlier is a great choice: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...acture=CORSAIR

The motherboards he suggested are fine. We like the plain P5B board: http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...nufacture=ASUS The P5B-E is the next step up, adding Firewire is the big difference. That would be the board to get from that list, if you must buy from the store.

Seasonic units are solid, no worries there.

[LeftyAce]

P5B-E costs $30 more than the base P5B and adds onboard firewire. If you have firewire devices, go for it, otherwise you can always add a PCI firewire card later.

P5B Deluxe WiFi has onboard wireless networking. Again, if you'll use it, get it. Otherwise save your money 'cause you can always add wireless capability later.

P5W from what I can tell adds a second PCI Express Slot (which there's no use for right now) and wireless networking for twice the cost of a base P5B (the P5W is over 200USD on newegg).

I can't find the P5D on newegg at all, so I'm not sure what it's all about.

Corsair ram is good (and probably the best value for money). I don't know what he's talking about with not getting 667 speed though. The C2D front side bus (memory interface) runs at around 533 Mhz, and the way the architecture is designed it benefits from the extra overhead provided by 667MHz ram....anything higher is wasted unless you start overclocking the processor.

As far as things not being available in Canada, I'm not sure. If it's available on ncix.com, it's available to be shipped in Canada :-)
I'd encourage you to look at ncix, as they're almost certainly cheaper than any physical store...
Seasonic powersupplies are good quality.

*EDIT* Beaten to it.

[CleanChucks]

Thanks, Alaron. EDIT: and lefty

What does the 667 in regards to memory mean?

[CleanChucks]

I'd encourage you to look at ncix, as they're almost certainly cheaper than any physical store...

P5B @ R.O.T.: $145
P5B @ ncix: $160

E6600 @ R.O.T.: $278
E6600 @ ncix: $289

Not much of a difference, but add on shipping and it looks like ROT is actually cheaper :/

[LeftyAce]

Based on those prices, deffinitely go with R.O.T. I just assumed the website would be cheaper, 'cause that's the way it works with all the big box stores near me (Circuit City, etc).

The 667 refers to the memory's speed (667 Megahertz, or 667 million cycles per second). The processor can interface with the memory a certain number of times per second, and this is determined by either the processor or the RAM. Whichever one is slower determines the overall speed the ram will run at.

[CleanChucks]

ie "you're only as strong as your weakest link" then

So you guys say 667 is fine?

[LeftyAce]

Yes and yes.

[Staren]

What I would do at this point is print out the page at NCIX for the RAM I linked to and bring it into the store. The DDR2 667 RAM as the others have said is just one step up from the actual matched speed of the processor so works very well. Don't let them talk you into anything faster or specialty stuff like XMS or HyperX or anything like that. You don't need it and it won't do anything to the speed of the computer.

That Seasonic PSU should serve you very well. Corsair models are made by Seasonic. We've just gotten used to suggesting the Corsair versions because they're usually a little cheaper then Seasonics comparable line in the U.S. and the modular cables are very nice since it's kind of hard to find that feature on a really good quality unit.

If the P5B-E is your only P5B choice I'd go ahead and get that. The features on the others aren't really worth the jump in price in my opinion.

[CleanChucks]

Sounds good to me. The salesman was really helpful, but you have to think that there's some disguised sneakiness in there somewhere. My guess is he was basically trying to push me into buying the better motherboard + memory so I could overclock the hell out of my system (and fill his pockets with cash).

Just thinking, which of the newer games will this build run smoothly?

I'm looking at Battlefield 2 (and 2142), and Crysis obviously looks insane (thought I'm sure it's requirements are up there). I'm more of a FPS guy rather than MMORPG or RTS or anything...

[Staren]

With the 8800GTS and E6600 in there, you'll be able to run pretty much anything that comes out in the next year or so at full settings, and I'm not exaggerating. The power jump from the 7900 to the 8800 was just insane. You should be able to play at full settings for a good while.