1st build - budget $1,500-1,600

[DarkPacMan77]

This build will be used for just about everything I'd ever want it to do. I also plan to put a tv tuner in and a memory card reader. The budget is $1,500-1600 so more could be added, and I haven't decided what OS to use (it's an odd market for an OS right now). Also, I have a few questions below the parts list.

Optical - It's retail, but that's what I want. Additional input would be nice though. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827131039

Hard Drive- Just an ordinary "sweet spot" item.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822144701

Power Supply- 520W Corsair. Very powerful and reliable - best not to skimp out on the psu.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139001

Case- Not the best bells and whistles but two 120mm case fans + the room I need and looks pleasing.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811147037

Ram- This was the fastest ram I could find that seemed to have a great price. Input appreciated.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231114

Motherboard- I need a little input on this (question below)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813188017

Monitor- pretty Samsung 19'' (2000:1, dvi, 2ms)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824001094

Processor- Intel C2D E6420. Seems like a better choice than the E6600 to me, and @ a great price.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115016

Video Card- It's the lower 320mb model 8800gts - but we all know it's more than adequate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814133193

OS- haven't decided. Probably Vista home premium or XP 64.

Extras: arctic silver, card reader, tv tuner
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Questions that I have...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1. I had originally picked out the ds3 (rev. 1.3) but it had an Intel 965 chipset and I didn't want to get slower ram than what I had picked out. What is the difference between the 650i and the 680i chipset?
2. Is the power supply overkill? I know it's reliable but is there a cheaper alternative that will get me by just the same?
3. What OS should I use and why?
4. Additional cooling? I have a few older fans for the side panel but they are exactly that - older. Would you guys recommend any newer fans or anything?

I guess that's it for now.

[blue60007]

1) I'd rather have the Intel chipset over the nVidia. The Intel chipset is more proven than the nVidia. Also, DDR2-667 is good enough unless you plan on overclocking.
2) Hardly - as you said you don't want to skimp on this.
3) Hmm, tricky. If they still are selling copies of XP with a Vista upgrade coupon you could do that. Get the 32bit version of either one.
4) CPU has a cooler that'll work. As for case fans, usually one in the rear and an optional one in front is good.

If you wanted to spend a few more bucks you might look at the E6600. It's a worthy upgrade, but I'm not sure how you are on your budget. You might look at the Seagate 7200.10 series hard drives. You could probably squeeze some more performance out of those.

[Mr.Ferrari]

650i is like a stripped version of 680i. However I too agree with blue that you should stick to intel chipsets.

I also suggest that you stick to XP and not vista. And if you absolutely must go vista, go with the 32-bit basic and not the 64.

[DarkPacMan77]

I just figured it would maybe be better to have a motherboard that isn't a 965 chipset to avoid issues it may have with the faster ram I had picked out. I had chosen the Gigabyte DS3 (rev. 1.3) which is a 965 board and I believe that ram will only work, at fastest, with 5-5-5 timings.

Question is, do I get the DS3 and 667 ram w/ 5-5-5 timings or do I get an alternate board and use the ram I selected already. I'm looking for suggestions now. I really like the ram I have and think it will perform just how I want it to, so I'm thinking I'd want a motherboard that can use it's speed.

Also, the E6600 is within budget. I heard that the E6600 could only support ddr2 667 speeds - not higher. I'm skeptical to this, but just wondering.

thanks again - god I love this place

[Staren]

Ok main question is do you plan to overlock? If you don't then the 800 RAM would be wasted. The system simply wouldn't use it at full speed installed stock. DDR2 667 is the the true stock match for the Core 2. You would have to manualy overclock it to get DDR2 800 to be fully supported.

I would actually suggest a p965 board for this build, probably one in the Asus P5B series. It's a great board. The only issue is the IDE support but that becomes a non-issue when you use SATA optical drives.

[Mr.Ferrari]

Originally Posted by DarkPacMan77 I had chosen the Gigabyte DS3 (rev. 1.3) which is a 965 board and I believe that ram will only work, at fastest, with 5-5-5 timings.

Thats not true, a 965 board can work with a wide range of speeds and timings. Lowest it can go is cas3 and highest is usually 6 or 7 depending on the motherboard. And ive seen 965 board operating with up to DDR2 1300 and some could probably do more. The limit is really the ram.

Originally Posted by DarkPacMan77 Also, the E6600 is within budget. I heard that the E6600 could only support ddr2 667 speeds - not higher. I'm skeptical to this, but just wondering.

Also not true. In order for it to stay 1:1 it needs DDR2 533. DDR2 667 is recommended minimum around here for future upgrades. How high you can go on your memory speed has nothing to do with the processor's architecture. Dividers are another thing.

[blue60007]

I'm running an E6600 and DDR2-800 with no problems. The only real benefit (of DDR2-800) you'd see is in overclocking...

I'd stay away from anything less than 5-5-5 timings. I've heard 4-4-4 timings are finicky to work with. Besides the timing difference won't affect real life performance (you wouldn't notice the difference).

[DarkPacMan77]

Ok, I don't mean to be a moocher, but after reading what you guys have suggested, I am wondering what specific p5b and what specific 667 ram to use. I will search up what I believe is good, but I am wondering what you guys think as well.

If I get a board that is DDR2 800 standard, will it accept DDR2 667?

[Staren]

The only diffrence between the diffrent P5B varents is features. The standard P5B is all most people need. The P5B-E adds firewire ports, and then the Deluxe models add a ton of other stuff that most people don't really need unless they know they need it for a specific reason. Kind of like the XP Home vs XP Pro deal. If you need Pro, you already know you need Pro.

As for the RAM, yes DDR2 800 boards work just fine with 667 RAM. Someone with more technical knowledge then I have can tell you why they say 800 is the suggested RAM, because in fact it isn't actually needed. What we usualy suggest here is Corsair ValueSelect. If you want to get the 800 just to have the head room, Corsair XMS2 is very good.

[DarkPacMan77]

Ok, I really like what I see from this motherboard.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128042

On top of that, I don't think it would hurt to get ddr2 800 now. That just prevents me from buying it in the future.

I am looking at these three ram kits. Which one is best to purchase.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231114

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820211066

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231098

What's better? 5-5-5-15 or 5-5-5-18? I was under the suspicion that the lower the #'s the better - that's what I've thought for the past 4 years at least lol. Would that top ram even be compatible in the motherboard I just picked out?

[Staren]

I would go with this G.Skill: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820211066

Some people like A-DATA, but personally I think it almost boarders on being generic. The name has no faith behind it as far as I know. G.Skill is a well known overlocking brand and has been well tested by a lot of groups like we have here.

Yes most of the time lower timings are better. It's just that with Core 2s a lot of the data shows that it just doesn't matter and with P965 boards that it can actually be a little tricky to get lower timings to work right.

(FYI only, not a suggestion) That might be reversed with the newest Core 2 boards coming out. The new P35 chipsets seem to actually be set to respond to the tighter timings by default, making it harder to open them up to the value ram that usually runs at 5-5-5-*.

[DarkPacMan77]

lol, you linked me to the a-data. Anyways, I'm guessing you chose the "red" g.skill, not the white. I was thinking the same thing but I think I've read about that ram in the reviews and there's some issue about it running at 1.8v - I guess it needs to run @ 1.9v to be stable, at least on many boards. Odd, but acceptable. With the gigabyte board I picked out, can you say for certain whether I'd be able to specifically hit the 1.9v? - I think I read about the board being a good overclocker but that the ram voltages only jump by whole numbers 1-2-3 etc.

clarify?

-DarkPacMan77-

[Staren]

lol, how the heck did I do that. D'Oh. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231098

[Mr.Ferrari]

I would personally go with the P5B, the DS3 isn't all that hot of a board.

Ram does jump by tenth and hundredth decimals, 1.9-2.0-2.05-2.1-2.15 etc.

If you wan't a little more headroom for overclocking, I would get these:
G.SKill HK

[DarkPacMan77]

I tend to be the most logical person I think I know... so... when I look at the ds3 and the p5b, I see that both motherboards will do exactly what I want them to do, only the p5b costs more.

gigabyte is a quality brand, much like asus, so I wouldn't be paying extra for quality... so what would make you suggest the p5b instead of the ds3?

Also, I think I will get the $105 g.skill ram - it seems I will get the most out of it "today" and "tomorrow" I can overclock.

[Mr.Ferrari]

The DS3 is just not as proven nor as stable as the P5B. Its a decent overclocker, but it is very finicky. You won't find the ease of use that you will with the P5B. Its still up to you. But I would personally pick the P5B over it if I had the cash.

[Staren]

You kind of have to understand the kind of group that's developed at PCMech to understand our suggestions a little better. A lot of forums like www.diy-street.com that I also belong to, which you will hear about are made up mainly of hardcore enthusiasts. They don't mind some extra trouble to get every last bit of power out of a system possible. I truly do think the definition of "stable" is a little different there then it is here.

At PCMech we are made up of more novices and intermediates that come through, so we try to help get the best usable system possible. We will sacrifice that little edge that you'd never notice in the real world to build a system that's fairly easy to get together and will give you great use for the life of the system with as few headaches as possible. The P5B series is one that's known to "just work" without having to futz around as much so that's become our standard suggestion.

[DarkPacMan77]

The build is, more or less, completely finalized... but even though the corsair psu is a very good unit... I have my doubts.

I've read that the 8800gtx needs 26A on the 12v rails. I'm trying to find a power supply strong enough but the ones I see cost WAY too much.

I need help finding a power supply that will run the 8800gtx. My knowledge with computers is really high for my age, but even so, a friend of mine recommended a Rosewill unit http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182031 for the build... and I'm skeptical still.

Please, I need suggestions.

[minsonngo]

Avoid Rosewills.


The Cosair is more than enough to handle the video card. It has THREE +12V rails with 18 amps on each for a TOTAL of 54 amps. That is way more than the 8800gtx needs.

[Mr.Ferrari]

The 8800GTX does not need 26a on the rails alone. Thats the combined total for an average system including the video card.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by DarkPacMan77 I tend to be the most logical person I think I know... so... when I look at the ds3 and the p5b, I see that both motherboards will do exactly what I want them to do, only the p5b costs more. gigabyte is a quality brand, much like asus, so I wouldn't be paying extra for quality... so what would make you suggest the p5b instead of the ds3?

Actually, the Gigabyte is a step down from a ASUS in terms of quality. ASUS is a top tier manufacturer while Gigabyte (which is owned by ASUS) is a middle tier manufacturer. This basically means ASUS makes top quality motherboards while Gigabyte makes average quality motherboards. Between the two I'd go with the ASUS because it's made better with better quality parts.

And the Gigabyte motherboards that I've worked on have all been sort of quirky with odd compatibility problems.

Cricket

[DarkPacMan77]

My friend had suggested the Rosewill. I suggested this power supply.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817128006

I know Hiper really isn't all that more special or anything, but do you guys think it would be good to use?

[minsonngo]

Hiper is a decent brand. Between the Hiper and the Rosewill... I definately would go with the Hiper.

Here is a list of good and bad PSU brands for future reference: What Power Supply should I get? How many Watts? Who made it? Guide Inside

[Staren]

The specific problem with Rosewill anything is that it isn't Rosewill. They don't actually produce anything. They buy generic whitebox stuff and rebrand it. Could be decent quality, could be garbage. You just don't know from model to model so they just aren't worth dealing with.

As for the Hyper, I'm not sure. It's decent enough, but the amps on the 12v rails aren't stealer, and the connection system for the modular cables always seemed a little weird to me for that unit. Though between the two that would be my choice.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by DarkPacMan77 My friend had suggested the Rosewill. I suggested this power supply. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817128006 I know Hiper really isn't all that more special or anything, but do you guys think it would be good to use?

I wouldn't use it. You said this in your first post:

Originally Posted by DarkPacMan77 Power Supply- 520W Corsair. Very powerful and reliable - best not to skimp out on the psu.

What made you change your tune about the power supply? You seem to be looking to skimp on the power supply now. Bad move as far as I'm concerned.

Cricket

[Mr.Ferrari]

Agreed with Cricket, I highly suggest you stick to your original Corsair, it is more powerful and of much much higher quality compared to your other two suggestions.

If you check out www.zipzoomfly.com, you can have the Corsair 520w for $95 with free shipping.

Hiper PSU's are made with decent quality, nothing compared to the corsair, but the 530w and 580w units aren't their greatest due to a poor modular design and bad choice of internal components.