New build for PS3 and some gaming

[Croaker]

I've been lurking for awhile, and people here seem quite very knowledgeable. I've learned a lot from all the help you've given others.

I'm looking to replace my hand-build Athlon 2000+ system.
Primary use is for photoshop CS3, although I do game some. I was to accelerate both the initial image cull and the overall editing.
That means to me:

- Fast disks and a good CPU.
- The current system is a bit loud, so I want to take sound a bit more seriously than in my last build. But I'll trade some volume for more speed.
- I will not be overclocking.
I have a few questions, but here are the parts that I'm thinking about so far (clearly, I'm missing things.)

Processor:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115003
or
Intel Celeron D 336 Prescott 2.8GHz LGA 775
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819112205
(and wait until the next price drop from Intel in a few months - then something in a similar price range as the E6600.)

Case:
Don't know (see below)

Motherboard:
ASUS P5B LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131030
or
GIGABYTE GA-965P-DS3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128012

RAM
CORSAIR ValueSelect 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145098

Powersupply:
CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139001

Disk Drives:
HITACHI Deskstar T7K500 HDT725050VLA360 (0A33437) 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822145137

Seagate 7200.10 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148140

EVGA 320-P2-N811-AR GeForce 8800GTS 320MB 320-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130082

DVD:
LITE-ON Black 16X 2M Cache SATA DVD Burner - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106046

cdrom burner
(PATA based liteon from old system - I'd like to reuse this if reasonable)

c: 50G of the Segate drive for boot
d: the rest of the segate for applications
e: The entire Hitachi - pictures

I'm sticking with Win XP Pro, so it doesn't seem worth filling all the slots with RAM (to get 3G instead of 2), only to swap it out if I upgrade to Vista later (I'd upgrade to 4G when I get Vista.)
------------------
Questions:
1) What do people think of the brand disk drives? I've historically been a WD man, but they seem to have not kept up. www.storagereview.com likes the HITACHI.

2) What to do about local disk backup? Is eSATA as good as it is on paper? (As fast as internal? Are cases reliable? Drivers?) I'm currently using 250 WD PATA via USB2? I prefer local backup via something I can turn off (not internal.) Stiction failure is not common any more, so keeping it turned of is safe.

3) What is a good quiet case that can keep a two higher RPM drives properly cool? I'm happy with my current Antec case, but I know very little about quiet cases.

4) Any ideas on Intel's price drop in July? Is it worth buying the cheapest 775 CPU and replacing it in the next price drop? The Celeron has gotta make a system faster than my current one, which would hold me over for awhile.

Anything you all think I'm missing?

Thanks in advance for all the help!

[Staren]

1.) Seagates are great drives. 7200.10s are 'almost' on par with WD Raptors. Very good buy. The Hitatchi might be fine since you sound like someone who takes back-ups seriously, but historically they didn't earn the nickname "deathstars" for nothing, though they seem to have gotten better.

2.) eSATA is quite fast. Seems to work pretty well the campus computers I've used it on anyway. Won't have it avalible for home use for a few more days when I finish my latest build. You might also want to look into a network hard drive. If the computer, router, and drive enclosure where all on gigabit lan, that would be pretty snappy.

3.) I would seriously look into the Antec P182. Good airflow design, double thick walls to kill noise, and rubberised drive cages to lessen vibration noise. I have one on order now for my own build. A little pricey at around $130, but worth it.

4.) Can;t really help you there, sorry. Don't have any info about another price cut. I'd say the 6600 is a pretty good deal already though. If you want to get the system up and going I wouldn't worry about it.

The only other thing I'd comment on is I wouldn't mess with adding the IDE burner. The DVD burner will burn everything you need it to. If you need dual drives then get a cheap DVD-ROM for less then $20. All current and future socket 775 boards have very bad IDE support and will probably be losing it all together before too long.

[freakitchen]

Welcome to the forums Croaker. Looks like you've done your homework with that list. I'd agree With Staren's recommendations for the hard drives, and the P182. I too think that the E6600 is at a good price for such a powerful processor. If you constantly wait for the next price drop, you'd never actually build a system!

I'd choose the P5B over the DS3 for the track record of the ASUS boards.

[Croaker]

1) From what I read over at the Forums on storagereview.com, the newer deskstar disks were better for reliability, while the 7200.10's were new enough that they didn't have enough data for a track record. Unfortunately storagereview doesn't have a review of them, so I don't feel I have good performance numbers for a comparison. If they were comparable in speed, price and good reliability then I'd happily use two of them over the deskstar. Anyone have thoughts on their performance?

2) Thanks for the tip on eSATA. I'd been going back and forth between it and firewire (and keeping an old USB 2 based external case for a sneaker net.) I really like that you can easily chain multiple firewire drives so expansion is easy... but do I really need more than 5 external drives? If not than the 1->5 multiplexer limit on eSATA isn't a practical limit, only theoritical.

I already have a hand-build Gentoo-base NSA, and I'll eventually replace that with something bigger (just two mirror disks for now. Used only for backup.) What I'd like is two types of backup. One on an NSA on a non-windows OS, and a set of backups locally (in a format that I can grab and run if disaster strikes.) I'll never burn DVDs as backup - I know myself. So instead I was going to use multiple disks in external enclosures.

3) Thanks again for that case tip. I've like that company in the past, so I'll check it out.

4) It's stories like this that make me wonder:
http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=789466
suggesting that the Q6600 will drop by over $200. That is huge, and photoshop would definitely take advantage of that CPU. So I'd buy the cheapest CPU I could and build the new system now. Then replace just the CPU in July to a quad-core.

But if I did move up to that quad core part, should I be getting better RAM in anticipation?

Thanks for the tip on the IDE CD-RW. Seems a waste to not use it, but I see your point. Thanks. I've been happy with the lite-on IDE drive I've got, so I'll look for a cheap DVD/CD ROM from them as well.

Croaker

[jer888]

Originally Posted by Croaker - The current system is a bit loud, so I want to take sound a bit more seriously than in my last build. But I'll trade some volume for more speed.

The Antec P182 recommended already will help. You can have one low rpm 120mm fan in the bottom chamber to cool the hard drives and power supply. Then in the upper chamber you really only need one 120mm fan, the one in the back. The top one is not necessary. You can cover it with something and it will make it pretty much silent. You don't really need a intake either, so don't put one unless your temps are too high. You can also get a aftermarket cpu cooler, like the scythe ninja, which will quiet things down.

That may be a little extreme, but i sleep in the room my computer is in so I like it pretty much silent.

[Croaker]

Thanks for the tips on the fans. I'd rather not go with the Scythe (voids the warrenty, right?) but I've heard good things about it so I'll keep it in mind.

I was doing some more reading about the P5B and I saw something that gave me pause. Maybe someone can tell me more (or suggest another motherboard.)

If I was to change that 500G drive and get 2 320G and RAID-0 them for better performance (to speed loading and culling pictures) would I have to have one internal and one external for RAID to work? That is the implication on all the P5B variants from Asus's web page. That just seems wrong. If I have to take my computer somewhere (which I do occasionally, I teach photoshop & wildlife photography and some times I want my desktop instead of my laptop. I know, I'm weird) then I have to bring the external too. That just seems like a dump, compromise design to keep the price down.

If I wanted to build a system doing RAID-0 inside the case, what MB would people suggest? Stay with the P5B?

I'm really thinking that the hard disk is the last part of this system I'm unsure of. Then it's off to newegg with credit card in hand. I can't wait!

If I have to go external, what eSATA case would you all recommend? Then again, I need one for backup any ways, so what would you recommend in an external eSATA case? All mine have been FireWire/USB and I've not been very happy with them.

Forgot to mention I'm going to go with this for my "non-burner" optical drive:
LITE-ON Black 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA DVD-ROM Drive Model SHD-16S1S-05 - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106039

I'll update the list above.

Croaker

[whubbard]

Also I've heard around here the next price drop (atleast big one) ins't comming till fall.

[minsonngo]

Here is a good enclosure with what you are looking for: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817362002



And... just read the motherboard manual over again... looks like for the P5B... you can set the RAID configuration up with only internal drives. You don't have to use the eSATA port. The wording is just kind of confusing... that is all.

[Croaker]

Thanks for the update about using RAID. The more I think about it, I think I'll skip it for now I use a 500GB drive instead. Its tempting, but several people have said the real-world performance for RAID 0 is not enough to justify the risk of two points of failure.

[whubbard]

True.
I too was turned away from it. I have two raptors and I just use them both in normal mode and they are well fast enough. Also the extra space is nice.

[Croaker]

Well, I did the deed. I purchased the parts last night.

Newegg was out of the DVD writer, and the only Retail box they had (wanted the newer Nero) was for a newer higher end one. But the price difference was minimal and the reviews were good, so I got it instead.

I also upgrade the video card trivially (slightly higher clock speeds.) All the reviews I could find for eVGA cards were for the middle or higher end 320MB cards. They were universally liked, so I went with the middle tier... it was only $10 more.

I also thought about switching the external case to an eSATA one (for my local backup)... but didn't find one that I liked and I was generally happy with the suggestion that was given on the forum. So I didn't change it.

The final part list is:
VGA EVGA 320-P2-N815-AR 8800GTS 320 - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$299.99)
PSU CORSAIR|CMPSU-520HX RT - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$129.99)
MB ASUS P5B P965 775 - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$116.99)
DVDROM LITEON|SHD-16S1S-05 SATA BK% - OEM (Qty=1, Price=$17.99)
DVD BRUN LITE-ON|LH-20A1L-06 LS RT - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$44.99)
CASE ANTEC|P182 BK RT - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$154.99)
EXT ENCL APRICORN|EZ-BUS-DTS-EKIT R - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$39.99)
CPU INTEL|C2D E6600 2.4G 775 4M R - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$223.90)
MEM 1Gx2|CORSAIR VS2GBKIT667D2 R - Retail (Qty=1, Price=$64.99)
HD 500G|ST 7K 16M SATA2 ST3500630AS - OEM (Qty=2, Price=$249.98)
HD 320G|ST 7K 16M SATA2 ST3320620AS - OEM (Qty=1, Price=$79.99)

Extended Warranty Fee: $0
Subtotal: $1423.79
TAX: $0
Shipping and Handling Charge**: $40.21
Total: $1464.00

I assume I'll be getting the parts on Friday (or next Monday) and I'll post something when I get it up and running. If all goes well, I should be able to put it together in about 1-2 hours (if Asus manuals are still as good as they used to be.)

Thanks for all your help!

Croaker

[whubbard]

(the manuals are amazing)
You might enjoy going on their site and downloading it now, so you can read up all about it.

Takes some pics for us all as well.

[Croaker]

Downloading the manual is a good idea.

The old Asus board I've got my Athlon XP 2000+ in is a good bard with a good manual. So much so, in fact, that it was part of my reason for going with one of their boards. When you actually *need* the manual, you are probably not in a good mental state and fighting a problem. Having a good manual makes those times just a bit better.

Humm... take a picture of it. Now there is a good idea. I think I've got a camera or two that could do that. The question is which lens to use? I have the longest of longs and the (almost) widest of wides.....

Eric

[minsonngo]

You final build list looks great.


Here is the motherboard manual you can download if you want to look at it ahead of time: http://dlsvr03.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/.../e2620_p5b.pdf

[whubbard]

I would use the widest of wides...should be easier to take the pics with, and i think it would come out clearer...but my knowedge of cameras is limited. I just use a D-70s...and the photos come out great! (especially when I use manual)

[Croaker]

Well, thanks to the wonders of newegg, I ordered the parts on Tuesday at 3am. And I had them at my door on Wed. A day earlier then I expected.

I started opening boxes and reading manuals at 10pm. I'm installing Windows XP at 1am. Not bad. (Note, I didn't install the 2 500G hard disks or the DVD-RW. I'm installed with the simplest system to prove it works.)

A few comments, thoughts.
- This power supply is very cool. I like the option to add as many connectors as you need, and no more. Makes for a cleaner inside.
- For some reason windows thinks the 320GB hard disk is only a 150GB. I'm going to let it finish installing just to time it and then reboot and see what the BIOS says (why not? Its too late to stop and restart, I gotta get to be some time.) Damn, just checked and the BIOS says its a 320GB hard disk.
- My older Asus motherboard (A7V333) came with a sticker that pointed out where things were on the motherboard. It was large, quite readable, and easy to stick on the inside of the case side-door. I miss it, the P5B didn't have such a thing.
- I felt the motherboard manual didn't walk you thorough install like I'd have hoped. It listed "this is that" kinda stuff... but I was hoping for something more like "install X (give details), install Y (give details), ..." and so on.
- I found it a bit tight to get the motherboard in. And the fit mating the connectors on the MB to the back pannel was a bit hard to get flush with the outside.
- The CPU was easy to install. No paste or other goop where you had to worry if you used too much or too little.
- Damn, that video card is big. My last video card was a NVidia 4200 base card. Looks tiny compared to that thing.

Damn, installed XP Pro in about 25 minutes wall-clock time.

Time to get to bed. I'm sure I'll have more to say over the next few days.

Thanks again for all your suggestions and help

Croaker

[minsonngo]

What service pack is on the operating system you are installing? You need SP1 or higher.


After you download, employ the service pack and restart. When you are back into Windows again... right click on My Computer, click on Manage, then click on Disk Management, look for your missing HDD space (usually labeled as "Unallocated Space"), right click on it and partition and format it for use.

[Croaker]

I haven't patched it up yet, and I wouldn't be surprised if the XP Pro disk I'm using is old enough that it would be pre-SP1.

I'll give that a try tonight and post what happens. Thanks for the info! There is already a good chuck of unallocated space (I used 30G for the OS. Overkill, I know. 20G would do) so I'll look for it to be larger.

Croaker

[Croaker]

I updated to SP2 and that allowed me to see the entire hard disk. So all is good on that front.
Thanks for the help!

Croaker

[minsonngo]

No problem.