Fine Tuning My New Build - Need Help

[zmazza]

OK guys,

I've narrowed down my list and purchased a few parts. I'm needing some help fine tuning my intel gaming rig. As most of you probably know, I'm on a bit of a budget, so i need to stay as affordable but upgradeable as possible.

As far as components go, I've got the following:

17" Dell Monitor

40gig Western Digital IDE Hard Drive (I would like to use this since it's got my operating system loaded on it and that's one expense that I could cut. It's got Win 2k Professional.)

Xion Black Steel Case Black/Green

Antec 350w Power Supply (This one is the power supply I'm using in my current build.)

4x NEC DVD Burner (IDE)

52x Lite On CD Burner (IDE)

As far as parts to get, I've decided to go with the following:

ASUS P5B LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

Intel Dual-Core E2160 Allendale 1.8GHz 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail

Now all I need is a good recommendation for a PCI-E x16 video card that's around 100 dollars. Something that will act as a placeholder, but will still allow for decent fps in 3d gaming.

I also need a good recommendation for some affordable quality memory.

Let me know what you think and if you think all that will work together. My main concern is the power supply being able to power everything. I'm also wondering if the motherboard will work since everything is IDE and not SATA. Can you convert the cables if it is?

Thanks in advance and I'm looking forward to hearing back from you! Thanks!

Zac

[zmazza]

Sorry for the double post... will this video card work?

HIS Hightech H165Q512N-R Radeon X1650 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 IceQ Video Card - Retail

It's only 89 dollars, so definitely within budget.

Thanks!

[maxnik]

is there a reason that you are going with Dual Core and not Core 2 Duo?
Also P5B boards have only one PATA header - so you'll need maybe PCI adapter card
7600 series video cards still might be your best choice and with 350W PSU it will be close.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by zmazza Antec 350w Power Supply (This one is the power supply I'm using in my current build.)

Is that a ATX or ATX 2.0 power supply? For the P5B motherboard you'll need a ATX 2.0 power supply with the 24 pin motherboard power connector and the 4 pin 12v power connector.

Originally Posted by zmazza ASUS P5B LGA 775 Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

The P5B only has 1 IDE connector on it...you can only use 2 IDE drives unless you install a PCI IDE controller card for the IDE hard drive(s). The opticals will connect to the motherboard since most PCI IDE controller cards don't support ATAPI drives.

Originally Posted by zmazza I also need a good recommendation for some affordable quality memory.

Corsair ValueSelect DDR2 667.

Originally Posted by zmazza Let me know what you think and if you think all that will work together.

When working with a tight budget you really have to do your research when looking into parts. You really want to get the best parts you can for the money you want to spend. Trying to re-use older parts is a good idea, but you have to be sure they'll work with the newer parts...the power supply is the main concern here.

Originally Posted by zmazza My main concern is the power supply being able to power everything.

If it's a good quality ATX 2.0 power supply and you don't use a high powered video card, the 350 watt Antec should be enough for now.

Originally Posted by zmazza I'm also wondering if the motherboard will work since everything is IDE and not SATA.

The motherboard will work but like I said, it only has 1 IDE connection which only supports 2 IDE drives.

Originally Posted by zmazza Can you convert the cables if it is?

You can't "convert the cables" but you could try something like this but I have no idea how well it works.

Cricket

[zmazza]

I'm not sure what kind of power supply I have... what's the easiest way to find out?

As far as Dual-Core goes... I'm processor illiterate and it looked like a decent one. I'll go Core 2 Duo if the price is right. Do they have a good ASUS motherboard with more IDE connections? Or are IDE cards expensive?

I can drop the NEC DVD burner and just use the CD burner and the hard drive, but can you hook them up to the same cable?

Is there a better motherboard for my needs? I've heard nothing but good things about the P5 motherboards.

Also, does anyone have a good recommendation on a processor that is under 100 bucks? Looking for the biggest bang for my buck, but still want to be able to upgrade. Even if that means going with like a Pentium 4 or Pentium D for the moment, and upgrading to dual core or core 2 duo later.

Anything is better than my p3 733mhz processor.

If I went with a more affordable processor or motherboard, I might have enough money left over to get a new ATX 2.0 power supply. As far as the video card goes... is that one a decent placeholder? Does it pull a lot of power? I've got a 256 AGP 5700LE video card right now... so anything has to be better. I'm getting about 5 FPS on average.

Thanks again for all the help. It's greatly appreciated.

[zmazza]

You know, I was thinking. We have a Dell Dimension 3000 laying around the house basically collecting dust. It's not upgradeable, which is one reason why I'm building the new computer. I got to thinking about the processor that was in the dell. It's a Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor w/ HT Technology (3GHz, 800 FSB). I'm not sure of the manufacturer. It also has 512MB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 400MHz. Would either of those be useable? Could I salvage those and use those in the new motherboard? I'm pretty sure the power supply is just enough to supply what it has, but if I could save on the processor, I could definitely buy a nicer power supply.

Let me know what you think and if you have any recommendations. I know it might be a little tougher... I'd have to reapply the thermal paste... would the heatsink and fan move over to the new motherboard as well? Is it more trouble than it's worth? Should I just invest in a new processor?

[maxnik]

you will need ATX 2.0 PSU to run a PCI-E motherboard - the main connector has to be 24 pin, not 20 pin like ATX PSUs.

P5B board is for socket 775 CPU and DDR2 memory - 240 pins.
The Dell PC may have socket 775 or 478 CPU and it's DDR memory - 180 pins To find out - download one of the system analysis programs like CPUZ, SIW or Belarc Adviser.

what's you budget anyway? maybe if we start from money point we can figure something out?

[zmazza]

That's a great idea. Always good to have a starting # right?

I'm aiming at around 500 dollars max. That includes win xp and a new hard drive, if needed. I'm hoping that number includes shipping and handling as well.

If there is a cheaper motheboard other than the p5b that works well, please let me know. Like I said earlier, I'm wanting a gaming computer, but I basically play star wars galaxies. It runs decently on 733 mhz and 512 ram... I get about 5 - 10 fps and about a 400-700 ping. It's playable, but I'd like some better numbers. I need a better computer mainly for the video and my soft modem. So I don't need the latest a greatest, just something that's giong to make the game run a bit smoother. It also doesn't need to run 10 programs at the same time. I rarely have 2 or more open, if that makes a difference.

[blue60007]

Look on the side of the power supply and see if you can find a brand and model number.

I believe there are some ASUS motherboards based on older chipset that have been retrofitted to be compatible with Core 2 Duo's. These'll have two IDE channels most likely because the older chipset supports more IDE channels. Actually the P5B's chipest (965) doesn't support IDE natively, IDE support is added with a third party chip. But older chipsets do support IDE. As another plus these'll be cheaper. Something like the first two might work. I picked ones with 4 RAM slots...ones with 2 slots are slightly cheaper but you'll limit your upgrade options.

You could re-use the processor *if* it's Socket 775, but with Core 2 Dou's so darn cheap, and even the lower end ones will keep pace if not outpace the older P4's, I don't see a reason not to go ahead with the Core 2. The DDR won't be reusable as newer systems only take DDR2. And since it uses DDR I have a feeling it's not socket 775, so you might not have a choice but to go with a C2D. Here are the cheaper Core 2 Duo's. I just checked ASUS' support page - only the E4300 and E4400 are supported with the two mobo's above. The E4500 is supported on the P5L-MX, but it doesn't look like it's offered on Newegg. The E6xxx's are supported as well and there is a price cut coming July 22. The higher end is coming way down, but I don't know if it'll bring the E6320 within your price range. Might be worth a look too.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by zmazza I'm aiming at around 500 dollars max.

$500 to put together a gaming rig including the OS? Gonna be real hard to do. If you could double that amount then you could actually do it, but with only $500 to work with...gonna be hard.

Whatever happened to this build?

Cricket

[zmazza]

Here's the board I'm going to get. It's PERFECT! It holds up to 16 gig of memory, has 2 PCI E x 16 slots, 2 sata and 2 ide channels. Not bad and it will allow me to upgrade.

ASUS P5NSLI LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI Intel Edition ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

Just to clarify though, the processor I chose... will it work with the board above?Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8GHz 2M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail



And it looks like I'll need to find some good memory for it and a new power supply.



So, I've got the power supply picked out... it's a 450 watt FSP group... The memory, though, I don't.

So, with the pcu and the motherboard, I'm at a little over 200, with the power supply, at 260, the memory, probably 300-320, and with the video card, at little under 400 dollars. That's absolutely perfect.

Let me know if I missed something, but on a side note, what do you guys think about the choices for a decent gaming rig?

Thanks,

Zac

[zmazza]

Cricket - Just playing around with the options now that I found some computer components that we're still good in my other computer. I've already got the OS, so I don't see why I should upgrade to Xp when I like 2k better. With that in mind, that saves me from having to buy a new hdd, os, and a few other things.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by zmazza Here's the board I'm going to get. It's PERFECT! It holds up to 16 gig of memory, has 2 PCI E x 16 slots, 2 sata and 2 ide channels. Not bad and it will allow me to upgrade. ASUS P5NSLI LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI Intel Edition ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

Just so you know, NVidia chipsets aren't the best choice for a Intel based computer. It may work okay or you may have to deal with system instabilities and weird little problems to get the system to run smoothly.

Originally Posted by zmazza Just to clarify though, the processor I chose... will it work with the board above?

The ASUS web site has supported CPU lists for each motherboard.

Originally Posted by zmazza And it looks like I'll need to find some good memory for it and a new power supply. So, I've got the power supply picked out... it's a 450 watt FSP group...

That PSU should be fine as long as it's a ATX 2.0 or higher.

Originally Posted by zmazza The memory, though, I don't.

I put up a link to good RAM in a previous post.

Originally Posted by zmazza what do you guys think about the choices for a decent gaming rig?

Should be okay as long as the motherboard doesn't give you fits.

Originally Posted by zmazza I've already got the OS, so I don't see why I should upgrade to Xp when I like 2k better.

If you have a HDD with Win2000 on it already you'll want to see this thread.

Cricket

[zmazza]

Wow. You guys are awesome. I wish I had a 10th of the knowledge.

Thanks for the link about using a win 2k hdd. That's just the link I needed.

So, great and all knowing Cricket.... I hear that AMD processors are better for gaming than intel... are AMD processors just as easy to work with? I've never used one.

Are there any major differences as far as installing them or choosing a motherboard?

I'd have to choose an AMD based motherboard, right?

Or would an AMD processor work with the nVidia motherboard that I chose?

Would the AMD processor give me less headaches than an intel one with the chosen board?

Would all the other components listed work with an AMD processor?

PS The PSU isn't a 430 watt, it's a 500 watt FSP Group PSU. I listed the wrong one in an earlier post. It's about 85 dollars, but it looks solid.

Oh, and if AMD is a better choice, because I love the motherboard, and would really prefer to get it due to all the options available, do you have a AMD processor that you recommend with that board?

Thank you very, very much!

[zmazza]

I know I should have mentioned this earlier, if it matters, but I don't know how to overclock, so I just need a good solid, stable system without overclocking.

Oh, and I found what I think would be a good AMD motherboard and PCU. Hopefully you guys can let me know if it's a good one or not.

I figured Athlon 64 X2 was the equivalent of a dual core or core 2 duo system..

ASUS M2NPV-VM Socket AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 6150 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ Windsor 2.4GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor - Retail

Do you think it would hurt that it's a micro ATX board?

Thanks again,

Zac

PS This keeps me in the same price range, so thats always good.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by zmazza So, great and all knowing Cricket.... I hear that AMD processors are better for gaming than intel...

Not true. Currently Intel C2D based processors are the top dogs as far as performance goes.

Originally Posted by zmazza are AMD processors just as easy to work with?

Yes, they're easy to work with.

Originally Posted by zmazza Are there any major differences as far as installing them or choosing a motherboard?

No. They're easy to install and you always choose a motherboard based on it's compatibility with the processor you're going to use, the features you need and it's overall quality. Never use a cheap bargain basement motherboard for a gaming rig.

Originally Posted by zmazza I'd have to choose an AMD based motherboard, right?

Yes.

Originally Posted by zmazza Or would an AMD processor work with the nVidia motherboard that I chose?

Nope.

Originally Posted by zmazza Would the AMD processor give me less headaches than an intel one with the chosen board?

Nope. They're about the same in this respect. The CPU rarely is a problem.

Originally Posted by zmazza Would all the other components listed work with an AMD processor?

Yes, all other components will work with either a AMD or Intel based motherboard.

Originally Posted by zmazza PS The PSU isn't a 430 watt, it's a 500 watt FSP Group PSU. I listed the wrong one in an earlier post. It's about 85 dollars, but it looks solid.

FSP power supplies are good quality units and are very reliable.

Originally Posted by zmazza Oh, and if AMD is a better choice, because I love the motherboard, and would really prefer to get it due to all the options available, do you have a AMD processor that you recommend with that board?

No AMD processor will work with the motherboard you linked to (ASUS P5NSLI LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI Intel Edition ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail), it's strictly for use with Intel LGA775 processors.

Cricket

[zmazza]

Hmm... so basically, if I went with the intel system, I'd need to change the motherboard? You had mentioned some compatibility issues and bugs with the motherboard I had chosen. What do you think about the AMD processor / motherboard combo in my last post? I'm aiming at $200 dollars for both motherboard and cpu, that includes min 2 pata/ide devices, but would prefer 4, at least 1 pci e 16 slot, and at least 2 pci slots.

Any recommendations?

I've got everything else lined up and ready to go, it's just down to the mothebroard and pcu selection now. Like I said earlier, I'm not going to over clock it, I just need something stable and upgradeable in the future. It's going to be running SWG's, which is a basic 3d online mmorpg. Not even as graphics intensive as World of Warcraft. So it doesn't need a top of the line system.

Thanks again Cricket for all the help. I really appreciate it.

[maxnik]

MOBO - $85
CPU - $117
Memory - $80
PSU - $50
Video - $85 after rebate

total $435 + shipping

hoping you can re-use your HD and should be upgradeable in the future...

[zmazza]

Sounds good. Everything is right in line. I did change my mind again though. I took another look at the P5 asus intel board and it looks like it meets my needs even better than the other boards I've chosen. Here's the final list.

Wondering about mobo and memory compatibility though...

EVGA GeForce 7600GTS 512MB GDDR2 PCI Express x 16 Video Card 96.99
Sparkle 400 Watt Power supply 24 pin 42.99
Corsair XMS2 1GB (2x512MB) 240-pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 Dual Channel Kit 67.00
ASUS P5b LGA 775 P965 Express ATX Intel Mobo 116.99
Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8 GHz LGA 775 Processor 117.00

Total 440.97
Tax 40.79
Shipping 12.63
Grand Total: 494.39. Right under my budget of $500 dollars. Not bad. I think it will make a good system. Especially since I'm able to salvage the hdd and cd drives from my other computer.

Thanks again for your help. Now that I think about it, I believe this is the system I'm going to go with. It's cheaper than all the others so far and I think it will definitely do what I need it to do.

Thanks again!

[Jimmy0]

If you are able to, I would try and stretch the budget another $13 so you can get this ram.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by zmazza Wondering about mobo and memory compatibility though... Corsair XMS2 1GB (2x512MB) 240-pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 Dual Channel Kit 67.00

Wrong RAM. You want Corsair Value Select DDR2 667 like this dual channel kit.

Cricket

[zmazza]

Cricket to the rescue, again! Saved me another 20 dollars. So, the 667 would work with the motherboard? It says it needed DDR2 800 with 1.8v in 5 - 5 - 5 or 6 - 6 - 6 and something about JEDEC.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by zmazza Cricket to the rescue, again! Saved me another 20 dollars. So, the 667 would work with the motherboard? It says it needed DDR2 800 with 1.8v in 5 - 5 - 5 or 6 - 6 - 6 and something about JEDEC.

Many members here have the ASUS P5B motherboard and use Corsair ValueSelect DDR2 667 RAM and have no problems.

Cricket

[Mr.Ferrari]

Swap that out for a 450w sparkle.

[zmazza]

Thanks Mr. Ferrari.

I was getting ready to order everything and my computer started acting funny. Now, on startup, it says Runtime Error 5 (FDEG or FDAG is in the title bar). It won't load up windows all the way. What can I do to fix that? Is it time to reload the operating system?

[zmazza]

Mr. Ferrari... you recommended the 450w sparkle.... but it says it only has a 20+4 connector? The motherboard says it needs a 24 pin connector. Will that 450 w work?

[maxnik]

Originally Posted by zmazza Mr. Ferrari... you recommended the 450w sparkle.... but it says it only has a 20+4 connector? The motherboard says it needs a 24 pin connector. Will that 450 w work?

yes it will work. it's a 24 pin connector but the 4 pins can be disconnected to use with the older 20 pin connectors

[zmazza]

Thanks for the clarification.