New build since 2005

[Stretchman]

Hi guys,

The last system I built for gaming (see specs below) was in August of 2005. It was king! For a while at least. For the greater part of 2006 however I got out of gaming, and didn’t keep up with developments in the land of CPU’s and processors, which as you know is an ever-evolving landscape.

Now I was toying around with building a new system. Using my original system as a reference point, could you give me suggestions as to what an “upgrade” would be, assuming that I’m used to playing most games (particularly FSP/RTS) at 1920x1200 with most of the eye candy turned on. I’m happy with just about every “brand name” (aka EVGA, Corsair, Asus, etc) I have right now, so if you could make suggestions within those lines, I’d be appreciative. The only exception to this is the CPU, which will be switched from AMD to Intel. My budget limit for all these components would rest around 2,500.

Some of my initial thoughts:

Parts that could be kept (and recycled into the new system):

Sony Dru-720a DVD-RW drive
X-Fi music sound card
Antec P180 case
Western Digital 250gb HDD
OS: Win XP Pro


Also, a second part to this question. Given my current system specs, is there any upgrade (memory and video card perhaps) that I could give it to spark some new life, in order to wring as much as I can out this system and still play newer titles?


Current System Specs (aka the king of 2005! )

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 FX-55
CPU Cooler: Thermalright XP-90 Heatsink
CPU Cooler Fan: Thermaltake Silentcat 90mm cooling fan
Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5
Case: Antec P180
Motherboard: Asus A8N-SLI Premium ATX
Memory: 2gb Corsair XMS DDR-4000 (1gb x2)
Case: Antec P180
Power Supply: Antec NeoPower 480watt
Video Card: EVGA Nvidia Geforce 7800 GTX acs
CD-Rom: Sony Dru-720a DVD+/-RW
Hard Disks: Western Digital WD3200KS
WE Caviar SE16 250gb
Sound Card: X-Fi Music
OS: Windows XP Professional

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Stretchman Also, a second part to this question. Given my current system specs, is there any upgrade (memory and video card perhaps) that I could give it to spark some new life, in order to wring as much as I can out this system and still play newer titles?

Replace your current video card with a NVidia 8800 video card.

Cricket

[Stretchman]

Hey Cricket!

Hmm....8800 you say? I've been hearing some very good things about them. Are we talking 8800gts with 320mb, or something more grandiose? Would I still be able to play some of the more recent titles out there, like Company of Heroes, at 1920x1200?

[hitchface]

The 8800 Ultra hit something like 120 FPS on Doom 3. Only about 21 on FSX, but that game is a punisher.

[Stretchman]

Perhaps the first part of my first question was a little bit too much to tackle all in one bite.

Ok, how about starting with the processor? I know that Intel currently wears the crown, and have heard good things about dual-core and quad-core. Many seem to laud the dual core E6700 and E850. I'm curious though, is quad core the wave of the future? Are there any issues with older game titles and quad-core?

[Alaron]

I'd say the quad core is the way to go. More new games are being programmed to take advantage of the multiple cores, so you have one for AI, one for sound, one for physics etc. I'd look into the newly inexpensive Q6600 instead of the 6750/6850, even though those are nice CPUs.

Theres no problem using a multi-core chip with older games, they just run on one core and the others idle.

If you want to upgrade your 'base', try the Asus P5K, Q6600 and 2GB of DDR2-800.

[Stretchman]

Very cool. Ok, it looks like quad-core will be my CPU of choice for my next system. I was browsing this thread here:

http://boards.gwn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29846

As well as a few others, and most people seem pretty positive overall about this CPU technology. Intel it is, then.

So, on to the motherboard.

The Asus P5k looks good. I was also taking a look at Nvidia's 680i motherboards, particularly those made by EVGA and Asus. What do you think of that board?

Also, I couldn't resist clicking the link in your sig alaron, nice triple monitor setup you have there.

[Alaron]

The 680i boards are the way to go for SLI though the eVGA boards were a bit buggy when they first came out. I'm not sure if those problems have been resolved. Either way though, I'd go with the Asus P5K boards. They give you the option to use the new 1333FSB Intel chips and have been solid performers. Plus we generally discourage SLI since it is more economical to use one card and upgrade it rather then to add a second for SLI/Crossfire.

And thanks.

[Stretchman]

Sounds good. Ok, i'll definitely do some homework one the Asus board. I've always gotten good results with them in the past, and wouldn't mind putting on into my next build.

On to the next component then. (And don't worry guys, I won't go through the whole list from case to psu one by one, i'm just trying to formulate a good idea for the essential internals like cpu, vid card, ram and one or two others. )

Since i'll probably end up going quad-core, it looks like the 8800 gts or gtx (or perhaps even the ultra) series will be the way to go. Keeping in mind my desire to run most, if not all games at 1920x1200 with at least a moderate amount of eye-candy, would the 8800 gts still hold up well, or should I really be looking at the gtx/ultra group?

As a side question: What would be the best 8800 card to pair with my current rig as well? (see specs above)

Also, let's talk SLI for a moment. I don't think i'm going to go the Crossfire route and probably won't be doing SLI either. I think when it comes to video cards I still like to keep everything nice and simple. Having 2x the graphics horsepower under the hood is tempting, but i've heard that some games have issues with SLI - is this true? Perhaps especially for older games?

[hitchface]

I'm not sure if SLI has issues with certain games or not, but I do know that you won't likely realize even a 50% boost in performance. I've been hearing some bad things from a lot of the folks who jumped on to SLI even after it had been ironed out.

Aside from that, general view is that a next gen card will do a better job standalone and will probably be cheaper. The Ultra, by the way, will probably give you incredible performance regardless of what you throw at it. Then again, the 8800 is so amazing that any version is bound to satisfy.

[jer888]

There will probably be some people that disagree with me but if you can and are willing, I would wait another 6 months (unless you were planning on playing some of the 1st DX10 games Crysis, Bioschock etc.) Heres why:

AMD's new native quad qores come out at the end of this year. Intels current quad cores are just two Core 2 Duo's smashed together.

Although the 8800's are powerful, by the time DX10 becomes more developed (roughly a year) they will most likely be painfully slow on new games coming out. The 8900's, and ATi's refresh of the R600 or R700 will be out to meet the demand.

This is alot of opinion, but I think an upgrade right now is not very future proof with immature DX10 and quad cores. Personally, I'd give it another 6 months at least.

but thats just my 2cents

[Stretchman]

This is alot of opinion, but I think an upgrade right now is not very future proof with immature DX10 and quad cores. Personally, I'd give it another 6 months at least.

Some interesting food for thought. Thx for your input, jer888. Of course, I suppose there's never really a 'right-time' to pull the trigger on builds, but it does indeed help to avoid getting caught in those transition periods when new tech (like dx 10) are slowly being introduced. I guess we are in one of those transition periods right now, or at least beginning one. I'd hate to build a big-uber rig right now, only to have it struggle on the first or second wave of direct x 10 games. As for the future.... Does Intel have anything up their sleeve beyond quad-core? I read a bit about Nvidia's 8900 or G90 series, but much of it seems like speculation at this point. Or is my info out of date?

I'm not sure if SLI has issues with certain games or not, but I do know that you won't likely realize even a 50% boost in performance. I've been hearing some bad things from a lot of the folks who jumped on to SLI even after it had been ironed out.

About SLI...hm, yea, I think i'll probably hold off on any plans for an SLI rig. Barring any future purchase of a 30" display with 2500x1600 native resolution, I probably won't ever need two video cards running in tandem. Every now and again i'll read about an "SLI issue" for a newly released title that is usually 'fixed' (or so they say ) by the devs with the release of a patch. Since my current mobo is SLI capable I was toying around with the idea of tossing in an identical 7800 gtx acs ko, but I can't even find it on EVGA's website anymore. A few small online retailers on google products search seem to be selling it for something outrageous like 500-600 dollars, so I'll probably nix that idea.

As far as my current rig goes, right now the only game i'm playing on a regular basis is Rise of Legends (RTS). With my current specs, I can play at 1920x1200, but I have to turn down all of the settings under the performance tab, so I was toying around with the idea of a small upgrade in order to play at a nice high rez with a healthy amount of eye candy enabled. My venerable 7800 gtx acs ko unfortunately just can't handle all that without significant slowdown. I'm probably going to try some other RTS games as well (Company of Heroes, Supreme Commander) and was hoping to at least be able to run at 1920x1200 with some eye candy.

Aside from that, general view is that a next gen card will do a better job standalone and will probably be cheaper. The Ultra, by the way, will probably give you incredible performance regardless of what you throw at it. Then again, the 8800 is so amazing that any version is bound to satisfy.

For my current rig, that's what I was thinking as well. Still, it is pretty funny that I would be spending 300+ dollars for a graphics upgrade for a game (Rise of Legends) that I spent 21 dollars for two copies of. Of course, i'd put that graphics power to good use in other titles, but I still hope I could run them at 1920x1200.

[flanzig1]

If you go with the 8800 GS or bigger for an upgrade on your rig, would aslo look to upgrading the PSU. I think your 430w would be pushed to the limited.

[Rolandooo]

I too am in the same situation as you, since my rig was built back in 05 aswell. I was pricing me a new rig just earlier and just decided to upgrade my video card to the geforce 8800 ultra 768mb, and my 2gb of kingston to ocz perfomance and a new PSU aswell. I will wait and see what AMD has in store for us until I plan another gaming rig anytime soon.

[Stretchman]

Originally Posted by flanzig1 If you go with the 8800 GS or bigger for an upgrade on your rig, would aslo look to upgrading the PSU. I think your 430w would be pushed to the limited.

Hm, you think so? My PSU is actually 480w (Neopower). Is that sufficient for the 8800 GTS?

I too am in the same situation as you, since my rig was built back in 05 aswell. I was pricing me a new rig just earlier and just decided to upgrade my video card to the geforce 8800 ultra 768mb, and my 2gb of kingston to ocz perfomance and a new PSU aswell. I will wait and see what AMD has in store for us until I plan another gaming rig anytime soon.

Ah, good to see i'm not alone. Please let us know how things work out with your upgrades. My questions for you: How many watts is your new PSU? What games do you currently play, or plan on running? What resolutions do you run your games at? My only concern about the Ultra series was that it might outpace our AMD CPU's. Is this the case, or do you think the CPU's themselves are still powerful enough to keep pace with a powerful 8800 card?

[Rolandooo]

Ah, good to see i'm not alone. Please let us know how things work out with your upgrades. My questions for you: How many watts is your new PSU? What games do you currently play, or plan on running? What resolutions do you run your games at? My only concern about the Ultra series was that it might outpace our AMD CPU's. Is this the case, or do you think the CPU's themselves are still powerful enough to keep pace with a powerful 8800 card?

My new PSU will be 650 watts, heres the link
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371001
I'm pretty sure it will due the job, it was suggested to me earlier from another member of the forum.

As for my games I play BF2, and its mod Project Reality, COD2, F.E.A.R, And when medal of honor airborne comes out I plan on playing that aswell. Mostly FPS and then cant forget Oblivion.
Now with my my 7800GTX I run all my games on high settings with the resolution of 1024 x 768 @ 85hz.
I never really experimented with the resolutions much, but possibly with this new card I will.
You have a better CPU than me, But my 4400+ is keeping up with all my games I can wait a few months for AMD to release a new processor to make a new rig. But I think ours will hold. Hopefully someone who knows more will enlighten us.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Rolandooo My new PSU will be 650 watts, heres the link http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371001

Your link doesn't work.

Cricket

[Rolandooo]

Sorry about that http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371001

[jer888]

Originally Posted by Stretchman Some interesting food for thought. Thx for your input, jer888. Of course, I suppose there's never really a 'right-time' to pull the trigger on builds, but it does indeed help to avoid getting caught in those transition periods when new tech (like dx 10) are slowly being introduced. I guess we are in one of those transition periods right now, or at least beginning one. I'd hate to build a big-uber rig right now, only to have it struggle on the first or second wave of direct x 10 games. As for the future.... Does Intel have anything up their sleeve beyond quad-core? I read a bit about Nvidia's 8900 or G90 series, but much of it seems like speculation at this point. Or is my info out of date?

Yeah after AMD, Intel will release new quad cores at the beginning on 2008 which will probably beat AMD once again. Theres not much info on the G90 yet, but there are rumors of a R600 refresh that may happen at the end of this year/beginning of next year so Nvidia will likely release something of their own. You caught my point with DX10 exactly, thats why i don't plan on buying one until DX10 is mature.

[Stretchman]

So it looks like some very interesting things are going to be happening in the next six months as the CPU/Graphics Cards wars continue unabated.

I'm interested to see how Rolandoo's upgrades turn out, because i'd definitely be interested in upgrading my current rig's graphics capabilities to run graphically intensive RTS games like supreme commander and company of heroes. However, if it means having to upgrade my power supply as well, whether for an addition 7800 gtx in SLI mode or a single 8800gts, then the expense might be best put off for a while yet.

So, back to my current hypothetical build, which frankly is looking better and better by the moment, i've got some good solid candidates for the motherboard and cpu. Also, by the time this rig gets built i'll probably be looking at an NVidia contender 8800 or it's successor, so it looks like i'm covered on that front too. Now, how about RAM? Right now I have 2gb Corsair XMS DDR-4000. Has memory changed/advanced at at all since then? In what ways? Is 2gb still the golden standard, or would 3/4gb be a waste?

[Rolandooo]

Well the suspense is killing me, my video card comes tomorrow and my ram is with that too. I will be sure to let you know what I think. My PSU wont come in till a little bit longer and I currently have a 500W that came with my XG case. I'm really unsure if it will run it.

[hitchface]

DDR2 is sorta the real deal now. As of this writing, an Intel CPU will mate well with DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) and an AMD chip will see its performance improve with DDR2 800 (PC2 6400). Of course there is DDR2 1000 and the like, so if you are into the screaming fast RAM game and heavy overclocking, there is always room for it.

2 gigs is now considered the realistic amount you'll want in a Vista system. 32 bit XP can't even take more than about 3 gigs anyways, so going for 4 is overkill in both situations for the time being.

[Stretchman]

Ok, DDR2. I will remember that. It's nice to see that gamers aren't going the 3 or 4 gig route yet. I can remember back in college when I commented on an Aliens vs. Predator 2 board how having 512mb of system memory helped performance, and wondered if it might become standard for systems in the future.

Flanzig1 brought up an interesting question which i've been meaning to cover in this thread, the power supply unit. Right now i'm using an Antec Neopower 480watt supply, which seems to be fine for my single 7800gtx. However for my future intel build I imagine i'll need something much more robust for the 8800 or its successor, especially if I end up running two of them in SLI. What power wattage should I be looking for these days? Are there any brands other than Antec worth looking into?

One other hardware/upgrade related issue that is confusing me right now. As i've mentioned before, i'm playing Rise of Legends@ 1920x1200. Every now and again i'll get frame stutters and jumps when scrolling around the screen. So today I notched the resolution all the way down to 1280x800 with absolutely no eye candy, and lo and behold I get the same stutters and jumps, and this is with only one or two units on the screen. This may require a completely separate troubleshooting thread, but I wonder, what's going on here? It's confusing b/c I assumed that the performance issues were directly related to the GPU. Here though that doesn't seem to be the case.

[Rolandooo]

Okay well I just installed the 8800ultra yesterday, and I must say i'm impressed! HUGE! but great. I recieved a BSOD while playing COD2 Maxed out settings and im not sure why. But today I tried it again and nothing.