I want to upgrade my 2 y.o. build

[Jeri]

Hi All!

My husband wants to purchase new DELL’s – but I built our 2 computers just 2 years ago and one of the reasons I did was so we could upgrade. I believe I can upgrade what I have and end up with something better and cost hundreds less than a new Dell – and that was one of the reasons I built in the first place!

We are not game players – at least not yet. :-) We have been having trouble with the HD and/or MB on one of the builds (hence hubby wanting a new PC) and I’ve started a new Photo Hobby (PhotoShop) and our daughter is into Flash (we have CS3) and FL Studios and complains about speed all the time.

Current System:

Case: Antec Sonata II
PSU: Antec 450w SmartPower 2.0
MB: ASUS A8N5X 939
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3700+
Mem: Corsair ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512)
HD: Seagate Barracuda 7200 ATA 150
Video: EVGA GeForce 7600 GT 256MB 128-bit
DVD: LITE-ON 16X DVD Burner
OS: XP Home

I was thinking of getting:

CPU: Intel E6750
MB: One of the ASUS P5 775 boards – confused by the choices
Mem: 2 Gig – unless you think I should go for 4?
HD: I’ve read about people buying fast small drives for the operating system and programs. Should I do this? Should I continue to use my existing HD as a file storage drive? I do have concerns about the HD – but perhaps if I reformat it – it would be fine? I’m also confused about portioning and organizing.

I think I can leave the rest the same – but I’m totally open to suggestions!

Thanks! I can’t wait to see what you have to say and order new components! :-)

Jeri

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Jeri CPU: Intel E6750 MB: One of the ASUS P5 775 boards – confused by the choices Mem: 2 Gig – unless you think I should go for 4?

For Photoshop CS3 you want as much RAM as the system can use...for WinXP you can install 4GB of RAM but the system will only "see" about 3.3GB, but that's better than just 2GB of RAM.

Originally Posted by Jeri HD: I’ve read about people buying fast small drives for the operating system and programs. Should I do this?

You mean like using a 10,000RPM Western Digital Raptor? Most here feel that using one of the newer 16MB or even 32MB cache 7200RPM hard drives gives you just as much performance but at a much better price.

Originally Posted by Jeri Should I continue to use my existing HD as a file storage drive?

I would leave the 150GB as your main hard drive and get a 400GB hard drive for storage, especially if you're getting into digital photography (are you shooting in RAW?), you can use up a lot of space just storing digital photo files. I just got a Canon XTi recently but have been using P&S digital cameras since 2003 and have a lot of digital photo files on my hard drive and 200GB external backup hard drive (little more than half the space used for only photo files). Now that I have the XTi I'll be shooting more in RAW and those files take up a lot of room, so when I do build my next computer it'll have two hard drives...probably a 200GB HDD for the main hard drive and a 500GB-750GB HDD for storage (unless the terabyte hard drives are reasonably priced by then).

Originally Posted by Jeri I do have concerns about the HD – but perhaps if I reformat it – it would be fine?

What kind of problems are you having with it?

Originally Posted by Jeri I’m also confused about portioning and organizing.

We can help you figure that out when the time comes.

Originally Posted by Jeri I think I can leave the rest the same – but I’m totally open to suggestions!

If you plan to re-use that video card then I think the 450 watt Antec will be fine. If you plan to upgrade the video card let us know what you plan to use and we'll let you know if you need a bigger power supply or not.

Originally Posted by Jeri Thanks! I can’t wait to see what you have to say and order new components!

The CPU choice is a good one. For the motherboard you need one of the P5K series to take advantage of the 1333MHz FSB speed of that CPU. Do you need FireWire support? There are several P5K motherboards with built-in FireWire.

Cricket

[amdalex]

That sounds like it would work well. Some people use hard drives like the Western Digital Raptor which is a 74gb HD that spins at 10,000RPM. The data transfer rate is higher because the drive spins so fast. I would only get a hard drive like that if I needed a computer with ultra fast data transfer rates. Another thing you could do to increase data transfer rates would be to get to normal hard drives and set the up in a RAID 0 configuration. You have to hook up two separate hard drives and set up the bios so they both act like one drive. This means that when you access the hard drive the CPU reads or writes to both of them at the same time striping the data. It looks like want you want to do should work great.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by amdalex Another thing you could do to increase data transfer rates would be to get to normal hard drives and set the up in a RAID 0 configuration. You have to hook up two separate hard drives and set up the bios so they both act like one drive. This means that when you access the hard drive the CPU reads or writes to both of them at the same time striping the data. It looks like want you want to do should work great.

RAID 0 has it's risks and the performance increase isn't all that great. Should one of the drives go bad or developes problems you lose all your data on both drives. Doing backups on a regular basis is crucial if you run a RAID 0 box. Personally I don't think RAID 0 is worth the trouble.

Since it sounds like this computer is for family use I wouldn't even consider RAID 0. Most families want a stable, reliable computer they can count on...not something that may be prone to problems and headaches.

Cricket

[Jeri]

Wow! Some great input already!

Originally Posted by Cricket For Photoshop CS3 you want as much RAM as the system can use...for WinXP you can install 4GB of RAM but the system will only "see" about 3.3GB, but that's better than just 2GB of RAM.

Great! 4 GB it is! That’s what my daughter wanted but I wasn’t sure it was necessary. I will tell her that you agreed with her. Would you Please recommend the memory? There are so many to choose from.

You mean like using a 10,000RPM Western Digital Raptor? Most here feel that using one of the newer 16MB or even 32MB cache 7200RPM hard drives gives you just as much performance but at a much better price.

Great Again! Those Raptors are expensive! Will you recommend HD’s for me too?

I would leave the 150GB

Sorry – my mistake. It is actually a 250GB - but it is only 8MB cache. BTW - What do you mean by main hard drive – for OS and other programs like CS3? Or should I store other things on this one too?

are you shooting in RAW?

That’s the plan! I’m actually waiting until PMA to purchase my camera. In my younger days I enjoyed film SLR, but my equipment was stolen and I was unable to replace it at that time. Now I’m ready to get back into the world of SLR and super excited by the advantages that digital brings to the world. :-)

probably a 200GB HDD for the main hard drive and a 500GB-750GB HDD for storage

Would you be so kind as to recommend the HDDs for me too???

What kind of problems are you having with it?

Three times in the past 6 months (maybe not that long – but the last time was just last week) I was not able to boot the computer at all. The first two times, I was able to run ChkDsk in the Remote Console (looooooongggggg process) but it seemed to fix things. We did loose some pictures the second time it happened. Last week, I wasn’t even able to get into the Remote Console – the system would hang. I usually keep the computers running 24/7 so I turned off the computer for several hours and it magically started working again – making me think it was the MB. I noticed that the fan on the NorthBridge chips is completely dead on both my computers – I have no idea how long that has been the case – but feared I had fried the board. So – at this point – I don’t know what is wrong – HD, MB, both?

If you plan to re-use that video card then I think the 450 watt Antec will be fine.

Unless you think I should upgrade??? I think the EVGA GeForce 8600GT is selling for $74.99 (after rebate) right now – I’ve read some good reviews on that one…

you need one of the P5K series to take advantage of the 1333MHz FSB speed of that CPU.

Once again I’m going to ask for your recommendation. It appears as though they have several flavors and I have no idea which one I should get. What’s the WiFi all about?

Do you need FireWire support?

No idea! :-) But I’ve read one should have it… No?

Cricket – I can’t thank you enough for all your time and help.

Jeri

[Alaron]

We currently recommend Seagate 7200.11 series drives. They come with 32MB caches and SATA interfaces.

The plain Asus P5K has the features for most users. Unless you can think of something else you need from your motherboard when comparing models, you're set with that one. Some models come with Wifi built into the board, saving you the trouble of installing a card if you have a wireless network. If not, it really doesn't matter.

If you aren't already using Firewire, I wouldn't worry about having it. You can always pop in a card in the future if you end up needing it.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Jeri Great! 4 GB it is! That’s what my daughter wanted but I wasn’t sure it was necessary. I will tell her that you agreed with her. Would you Please recommend the memory? There are so many to choose from.

CORSAIR 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory

Originally Posted by Jeri Great Again! Those Raptors are expensive! Will you recommend HD’s for me too?

Seagate Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0 Hard Drive

Originally Posted by Jeri Three times in the past 6 months (maybe not that long – but the last time was just last week) I was not able to boot the computer at all. The first two times, I was able to run ChkDsk in the Remote Console (looooooongggggg process) but it seemed to fix things. We did loose some pictures the second time it happened. Last week, I wasn’t even able to get into the Remote Console – the system would hang. I usually keep the computers running 24/7 so I turned off the computer for several hours and it magically started working again – making me think it was the MB. I noticed that the fan on the NorthBridge chips is completely dead on both my computers – I have no idea how long that has been the case – but feared I had fried the board. So – at this point – I don’t know what is wrong – HD, MB, both?

I don't think the motherboard is fried, I think with the little northbridge fan not working the northbridge overheated and you may have gotten data corruption on your hard drive. To get the hard drive working right again you need save the data from the hard drive and then wipe it with a zero-fill utility and then reinstall Windows...after you replace the little northbridge heatsink/fan unit. But I'm just guessing at this point.

Originally Posted by Jeri Unless you think I should upgrade???

Only if you plan on playing games. For photo work your current video card is fine.

Originally Posted by Jeri I think the EVGA GeForce 8600GT is selling for $74.99 (after rebate) right now – I’ve read some good reviews on that one…

That's a nice price for that video card, but it's actually geared towards gamers. Photo work needs good 2D performance which most normal video cards can handle.

Originally Posted by Jeri Once again I’m going to ask for your recommendation. It appears as though they have several flavors and I have no idea which one I should get.

The regular P5K is a nice motherboard to use. The other variants will just offer other more features (like FireWire, on-board video, WiFi, etc...)

Originally Posted by Jeri What’s the WiFi all about?

WiFi is for use with wireless networks.

Originally Posted by Jeri No idea! :-) But I’ve read one should have it… No?

Most video cameras transfer the video data through FireWire to the computer...I suggested it because you have a family and thought you might have a video camera. You can also use FireWire with external hard drives that support FireWire. FireWire offers very fast data transfer from your computer to an external hard drive.

Cricket

[wildfire]

For your CPU choice, it would be a much better choice to get an E8400.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...5037&Tpk=e8400
It was just released on the 20th I think. It uses the newer 45nm technology rather than the 65nm found in the E6750.

The E8400 is the same price as the E6750 except it's at a faster clock speed, using a faster 45nm core, since the chip is smalled, it also runs with less power consumption, runs cooler and overclocks better.

I don't know why nobody has even suggested this yet. The P5K is also 45nm ready. [Might need a bios update though].

[shadowpr]

I think the e6750 is still cheeper then the e8400.

[Masaki 7-11]

The e6750 sells for about $25 cheaper, the e8400 is 333MHz faster in terms of clock frequency, and the penryn architecture is about 20% faster clock for clock compared to conroe architecture.

[liambl]

The extra speed must be due to the extra 2mb L2 cache.

[brizey]

I just bought the eVGA 8600GT. I like it.

My setup is very similar (like scary similar) to yours (I have the exact same processor on an A8N-SLI motherboard and the same case and the same memory with 4 x 512 and maybe even the same DVD drive). We must have built at about the same time.

I think I am going to tough it out until the Nehalem processors come out later this year.

I also recently picked up a 7200rpm 16MB cache drive (500 MB). Much nicer (moved to SATA, too-I had been using an old scrap drive).

If you don't reboot often (I dual boot Linux, so I do), I would just use the new drive for storage. Sounds like most of your drive work is for data files, not for apps or booting.

[Jeri]

Thanks Everyone! You have all been really helpful.

Here is where I stand. Will the PSU be sufficient? Have I forgotten anything?

What I plan to keep:

Case (and PSU): Antec Sonata II & SmartPower 2.0 450W ATX12V v2.01 power supply

Video Card: EVGA 256-P2-N553-AX GeForce 7600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16

OS: Windows XP Home

Current List of Upgrades:

MB: ASUS P5K LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W

Memory: CORSAIR 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory

HDD1 (OS & Programs): Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

HDD2 (Data): Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

DVD Burner: LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model LH-20A1L-06 - Retail

Card Reader: Rosewill RCR-102 52-in-1 USB 2.0 Black Card Reader - Retail

That's a $700 upgrade!

[Katreat]

Upgrade looks good. If you someday get into gaming or need a new video card, just keep in mind you will also probably need a new PSU also. 450 will be a little tight with newer video cards.

Kat

[Jeri]

OK – Ready to pull the trigger on this build (that’s always the hard part for me :-)

What do I need to know about portioning etc. these drives? My last build had just one HDD (250 GB) and I didn’t do anything to it.

Thanks! :-)

[shadowpr]

Do you want to partition the primary hard drive?

Or do you just want to install windows on the primary drive, and then use your second drive for personal files?

[flanzig1]

Partitioning is kind of a personal thing as to how you want to organize your programs/OS/data.
With the 2 drives, the easiest is to use the small one for the OS and programs and the big one for data. Some people may partition the big drive into 2 or more sections depending if they wanted a seperate parttion for back-up/personal data/pictures/audio/etc.

One thing to remember is to add the card reader after the OS is installed, if installed before the OS, the card reader will be assigned the C: drive first.

[Jeri]

Oh! Maybe I don’t need to do anything? For some reason I thought I had to partition (or something). I didn’t do anything to my 250. I don’t feel the need to partition if I don’t have to – I can just use folders for organizing stuff – Yes??? But I’m certainly open to new/better habits! I do plan on using the small one for the OS and programs and the big one for Data. :-)

Originally Posted by flanzig1 One thing to remember is to add the card reader after the OS is installed, if installed before the OS, the card reader will be assigned the C: drive first.

Thank-you so much for reminding me about this! I did have this problem 2 years ago and would have completely forgotten about it! Any other tips I should know about? :-)

[shadowpr]

Best to just have one cd drive, and one hard drive plugged in while installing the os. After it's installed then you can hook up everything else.

[Jeri]

Originally Posted by shadowpr Best to just have one cd drive, and one hard drive plugged in while installing the os. After it's installed then you can hook up everything else.

Thanks Shadowpr – That is a really good tip. So simple, but I would have done it wrong. :-)

After the build, can I simply add the old HDD back and copy any files over? Will I have to change a jumper or something?

[shadowpr]

If the drives are sata, then they don't have jumpers. If you're going to add an ide drive afterwards, set it to cable select, and it should be good.

[Jeri]

I just want to Thank everyone again for all the invaluable help. I just placed the order! I should have everything here and ready to build next Saturday.

[Jeri]

I will be building my computer tomorrow and have a question…

Will I need to buy extra SATA cables? Will I know where to plug the SATA cables on the MB? I’ve not looked at the MB info yet – perhaps this will be obvious when I do.

I purchased the ASUS P5K. From the photo - it looks like it comes with 2 SATA cables - but they don't look the same making me wonder if I need to purchase at least one cable.

The Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250GB SATA 3.0 (for the OS and Programs)

And the Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB SATA 3.0 (for Data)

Thanks! I hope everyone will be having as much fun as I will tomorrow!

Jeri

[Katreat]

Generally speaking you do not need to buy extra cables. My P5K came with at least 2 but I also bought my Lite-on burner retail so I ended up with an extra one. You have a retail burner listed so you should be fine for cable for the two HDs.

If for some reason you dont get two with the mobo, you can pick them up at any radio shack, staples, or computer store for about the same price as ordering them.

Kat

[Jeri]

Thanks Kat! :-)

[Jeri]

Update

Good News: It’s working

But it wasn’t smooth sailing… When loading the OS, it failed. At first I didn’t know why so I tired different discs, etc. Then, I started Googleing. Decided my problem was that the BIOS didn’t recognize the E8400 chip. I found a few folks who had this problem, but not much help in solving it. I discovered I could enter a BIOS utility at SetUp by typing Alt+F2 (ASUS board). ASUS has a new BIOS as of 1/28/08 and I downloaded that to a flash drive. I tried and tried but I could not get the utility to load the new BIOS – I received various error messages. I thought I was dead in the water. My husband came home and suggested I use his flash drive. Huh? Why the heck did he think that would make a difference??? It Did! It Worked! I not entirely sure how, but I successfully flashed the BIOS and loaded the OS.

Next step was to add in my new 500GB Data drive. Setup saw the drive, but Explorer did not. Fortunately, it didn’t take long to find SeaGates wonderful HDD tool and that problem was solved.

Next step was to move “Documents and Settings” to the new HDD. I was surprised that this was not an easy thing to do! But, I found instructions to Find/Replace ALL references in the Registry from C:\Documents and Settings to E:\Documents and Settings (my new HDD loaded as E – I can live with that ). After doing this, and checking twice, I rebooted and removed the C:\Documents and Settings folder and all is well.

On both my old builds (ASUS A8N5X) my Northbridge fan had quite working. I’ve been limping along by keeping the units out of the cabinet and the side panels removed (so as to not over heat). I decided to fix this while I was at it. I successfully removed the bad fan and went to Fry’s. They had nothing! Absolutely nothing. I also tried Best Buy and Radio Shack – nothing. Back at home, I reasoned that with the dead fan removed, it would probably run cooler so I replaced everything and started it up. Didn’t take long for it to die a horrible death… In hindsight, I now think the dead fan was acting as a heat sink… Luckily, I had the other board from my rebuild so I still have two functioning computers – but I’m still limping until I get the fan replaced.

It was at times a stressful weekend, but all is well, I had fun and I am happy. :-)

Thanks again for all the help.

Jeri