family pc center build.

[helmeteye]

This will be my first build and I want to build around the 45nm process. The 8400 is the only one out but would be willing to use anything after that. I would prefer to build within $1000. Will not use sli or crossfire. Video card important but not necessarily for games. I want a versatile card that will be used for games but other stuff important. I was thinking 8600 and up with 512mb although will take something smaller if 512mb isn't that important. For mine I will probably upgrade to a quad at sometime. Should I use pci 2.0(how important is this) or pcie x16.

My 8yr old daughter will be building a pc at the same time. For her I am thinking any dual core intel. I want hers to be about 1/2 the price of mine with hers geared more toward video. in other words, I want hers to have tvtuner in and out. Perhaps light digital video editing for hers. we will have a combined budget of around $2000

I don't know what os to use for those 2 pc's. For my daughter, should I worry about Vistas copy protection stuff. She won't be messing with too many things, however, I fear that the copy protect might interfere unexpectedly with legit stuff. I will also try to teach them partitioning and I also love Linux. So I'd like partitioning software.

My 7yr old daughter is going to upgrade her Vista 32bit machine, w5233 pD 3.0ghz 82945g express chipset, with 2gb 667ram and video card. I was thinking a ati vc. I want this to be a cheap media center. I'm not possitive rather it will take nvidia or ati but it will use a pcie x16.

I want to be able to do Lan with them. What will I need to be able to link all these together for gaming and what games might be fun. We have all played total war stuff but were never able to do campaign mode at the same time. I have heard that the newest medieval total war expansion had multi-player campaign. Any suggestions for rts or other genre.

I put this under "build your own" because I want to build this entire setup for the first time. I will try to post the software questions elsewhere as well but I have run out of time.

[Icyman23]

Originally Posted by helmeteye This will be my first build and I want to build around the 45nm process. The 8400 is the only one out but would be willing to use anything after that. I would prefer to build within $1000. Will not use sli or crossfire. Video card important but not necessarily for games. I want a versatile card that will be used for games but other stuff important. I was thinking 8600 and up with 512mb although will take something smaller if 512mb isn't that important. For mine I will probably upgrade to a quad at sometime. Should I use pci 2.0(how important is this) or pcie x16. .

An 8600 would be perfect. (Not DX10 games though) Pcie 2.0 won't make any difference against pcie x16. Why 45nm? I would think an E6600 would do well, but thats me. I you have enough money, opt for an 8800 GTS 320MB or 512MB or 640MB...

Originally Posted by helmeteye My 8yr old daughter will be building a pc at the same time. For her I am thinking any dual core intel. I want hers to be about 1/2 the price of mine with hers geared more toward video. in other words, I want hers to have tvtuner in and out. Perhaps light digital video editing for hers. we will have a combined budget of around $2000

She's building it? Well then, I think Iv'e gone mad! how about $1200 for the first one and $800 for hers?

Originally Posted by helmeteye I don't know what os to use for those 2 pc's. For my daughter, should I worry about Vistas copy protection stuff. She won't be messing with too many things, however, I fear that the copy protect might interfere unexpectedly with legit stuff. I will also try to teach them partitioning and I also love Linux. So I'd like partitioning software.

I don't know what copy protection "stuff" you are talking about. I use Vista (Its fine), Linux is also fine but I don't think It will work as good as XP or Vista for games and video. (You might as well put an 8600 GTS in this one.

Originally Posted by helmeteye My 7yr old daughter is going to upgrade her Vista 32bit machine, w5233 pD 3.0ghz 82945g express chipset, with 2gb 667ram and video card. I was thinking a ati vc. I want this to be a cheap media center. I'm not possitive rather it will take nvidia or ati but it will use a pcie x16.

Any pcie x16 will use nvidia or ati. Maybe a Upgrade to a Core2Duo E6320 and an 8600 GTS?

Originally Posted by helmeteye I want to be able to do Lan with them. What will I need to be able to link all these together for gaming and what games might be fun. We have all played total war stuff but were never able to do campaign mode at the same time. I have heard that the newest medieval total war expansion had multi-player campaign. Any suggestions for rts or other genre..

Can't answer that...

Originally Posted by helmeteye I put this under "build your own" because I want to build this entire setup for the first time. I will try to post the software questions elsewhere as well but I have run out of time.

Well, hope this helps

Icyman23

[helmeteye]

Icyman23, "An 8600 would be perfect. (Not DX10 games though) Pcie 2.0 won't make any difference against pcie x16. Why 45nm? I would think an E6600 would do well, but thats me. I you have enough money, opt for an 8800 GTS 320MB or 512MB or 640MB..."

I want 45nm just because there aren't enough programs that use all 4 cores at the moment so I figured I'd stick with 2core at 45nm. L2 catch looks awful impressive. I figured it would last me long enough to get a 4core 45nm when they become widely available and cheaper. I do plan on eventually going 4core especially when more apps utilizing 4 become available. I have considered going 8800 gts for my build. Why won't 8600 handle dx10? I realize they won't handle highest settings but won't they handle dx10?

Iceman23, "She's building it? Well then, I think Iv'e gone mad! how about $1200 for the first one and $800 for hers?"

That is possible but I'd like to stay within 2000 including monitors, however I would probably be willing to buy monitors on top of the 2000. I'd also like to keep hers cheap, because yes, she is building it I will probably seed the proc. and heat sink/fan.

Icyman23, "I don't know what copy protection "stuff" you are talking about. I use Vista (Its fine), Linux is also fine but I don't think It will work as good as XP or Vista for games and video. (You might as well put an 8600 GTS in this one."
Icy, I will definately use windows in both machines. I will also use linux because I like it and I am going to force the girls to learn how to use it. I have used it exlusively in the past. I love Linux but for so many things it bytes. All machines will be dual boot. I was asking about partition software because I want something good with MS to do that. It seemed really hard when I tried using linux software to make a dual boot with Windows.

[perkster]

the 8600 is fine for DX10 and it runs most games absolutely fine providing you are not trying to play the absolute latest on max settings, its worked fine for all games ive played on mine, even FSX which is very GPU intensive.

if you dont want to spend the extra on the 8800 then its a good option.

[hitchface]

If you don't mind using Ubuntu, the setup for dual boot is dead easy. It will seriously walk you through the whole process. It'd also be a nice distro for your family to learn, since it is pretty basic.

For LAN, all you need is to hook up both computers via an ethernet cable. For more than 2 PCs, snag an ethernet hub to go with it.

I assume you want 45nm because of the power consumption? Its a good idea, but Intel chips are pretty power efficient already. If it becomes a hassle finding a 45nm chip, you can rest easy getting a 65nm version.

An 8600 will handle DX10, just not very well. Since it is an 8 series, it is designed to work with it. However, DX10 is still new, and requires more horsepower to get good use out of it. We are stuck right now where the really heavy games are miles ahead of the hardware. Perkster mentioned FSX, and it is a prime example. There isn't a video card today that will run that game maxed without bleeding first. I'd wager it gives Crysis a big run for its money when it comes to resources used. That said, the 8600GT is a sweet card. Good bang for buck solution.

As for the cheapo media center, the HD2xxx series cards from ATi are pretty well suited for the task. They can still pull some weight in games too, so they are good value cards as well.

Hope that helps.

[helmeteye]

[QUOTE=hitchface]If you don't mind using Ubuntu, the setup for dual boot is dead easy. It will seriously walk you through the whole process. It'd also be a nice distro for your family to learn, since it is pretty basic.QUOTE]

I don't mind using Ubuntu but have heard that people have problems with windows not showing other partition when using linux dual boot solutions.

Appreciate the help guys don't hesitate to chime in. Lots of help so far, anyone else? need ideas

[perkster]

to be honest i have the 8600 on XP not even using DX10 and its fine for most things but if you aren't looking to get vista and worried about DX10 you'd be better getting a more powerful car thats just DX9 such as some of the ATI cards.

The other option is to just use linux from a CD boot, not as good maybe but keeps it easy, especially to start learning it anyway.

[hitchface]

Windows can't read Linux file systems, but Linux can read Windows ones. Thats probably what you've heard. All that happens is Ubuntu automatically loads GRUB at the beginning of every boot sequence and lets you choose between it and Windows. Pretty simple.

[Icyman23]

Perkster, I'm Pretty Sure he's going to get Vista, and like hitch said...the 8600 won't be so great in DX10...I'm not even sure my 8800 GTS will pull through...... Crap, my G11's Enter key just went out! (While Im typing)...now, I need a new keyboard?

[helmeteye]

Originally Posted by Icyman23 Perkster, I'm Pretty Sure he's going to get Vista, and like hitch said...the 8600 won't be so great in DX10...I'm not even sure my 8800 GTS will pull through...... Crap, my G11's Enter key just went out! (While Im typing)...now, I need a new keyboard?

Now that's funny. Oh wait, laughing with you that is. Perkster, Icy is correct. I will probably get Vista. I was kinda hoping someone would talk me into xp pro or media 2005.

[Icyman23]

I guess I spoiled your party didn't I? All the pc's will run vista completely fine

Are you mad at me or Perky?

Enter key fixed after reboot.

[helmeteye]

I just thought it was funny. You seem to have as much luck as me. A few months ago I fried an athlon xp chip on my first ever build. After I fried that with a crappy psu I went out and got another chip and broke the pins because one of my kids jumped on me. I went and got another and chipped that one with the heat sink because I was working in the dark and didn't have it fully seeded.

[hitchface]

If at first...or second...or third you don't succeed, AMD is not for you.

[Icyman23]

lol helmet eye, my uncle built me an Athlon XP 1400+ about 3 years ago...I'm uctually thirteen now

The machine ran XP perfect until about a year ago...(I never felt like cleaning it out)

It gave me warning sirens every 30 mins...The cpu was running @ 83c...fun way to kill your athlon and catch your computer on fire right? It still works, I just need a cooler and a few wires to overclock it.

I now have my dream machine AMD 5600+ Vista gaming rig I built completely myself (with my dads credit card and newegg) runs 47c on full load...

[helmeteye]

Mine burned like kindling. It left a black spot on the board. I could smell it burning and something inside me made me crank it even higher. When I first smelled it I was mad but then I began to have fun cranking it up. It still ran for a few days until one of my kids turned it off.

[helmeteye]

oops,

[piasabird]

If you are Networking 2 computers try to decide if you want one or both of them to be wireless. Wired is fine, you just have to have a way to run the cables to the router. i.e. go through walls and floors. I have the computers in my basement so I dont mind the wires much. You can run them along the walls or in the rafters or whatever. In a finished house you need to think about running wires in the wall and using faceplates and what not or just using wireless.

With a little thought you could run wires through closets from floors below.

Wired connection works best for gaming, but you could do both if you put a wireless router with wired ports near the gaming computer. Wireless may cost more for the router, but you dont have to pay for the cables. For apartments, sometimes wireless is more desirable. Or you could take a den or an office and use it for a joint use Computer room.

As for security, I am of a mind that the computers should be in public areas if you are worried about online predators and Internet Porn. Depends on your level of trust and your expectations. I just dont like the concept of locking yourself up in your bedroom and using your computer. Makes it hard to communicate. Headphones can be a nice accessory.

The .45nm processors have additional instructions for processing video, but I doubt if programs are taking full advantage of this option. They run a little faster with the same power usage at a cooler temperature. You have to decide on the trade-offs between capability and speed and cost. There is also an issue of the Hard Drive Size. Video takes up room on hard drives fast. You might start with a 500 Gig Hard drive and a new Dual Layer DVD +-r that can read and write all possible formats. Lite-On is a good brand for price and quality.

Look for the processors like
E8400(Only Processor Avail $212.00) Price varies
E8500
E8200
E8190 (I think this processor will be released soon) This will probably be the budget processor.

These other processors will be out shortly. Intel claimed they would all be released in January. They are listed on the Intel Website. So they are considered released, but they may not be available yet.

http://compare.intel.com/pcc/showcha...&culture=en-US

You might try using integrated video and see if that is good enough for your daughter or not. You can get an EVGA 8600GT for around $100. It is a good mid-range video card. You might get by with 1 Gig of RAM, but 2 Gigs may not cost that much and may be fairly affordable right now.