Coming back to PC building, have questions

[Sortofnewbie]

Hi:

I'm not new to pc building. I've done it several times for myself, friends, family, etc., but it's been a looooong time, at least for the computer industry, anyway. The last one I built, the one I currently use, has the following stats, just to give you an idea:

CPU: AMD Athlon XP 1700+
Mb: Epox 8HKA+\
Ram: 1 gb (I think. Board won't take any more than that, I don't think)
Video: Geforce FX 5200
Audio: SB Audigy (newest part on there, I think)
Monitor: Older-than-dirt CRT thing, not even sure the brand anymore, but it works!
Keyboard: Older-than-dirt ripped off from an old Packard Bell pc the ex had
Mouse: Logitech optical wired mouse
OS: Changed multiple times over the years, originally Windows 98SE, now Ubuntu Linux (Gutsy), which I plan to keep using
HD: Western Digital 40 gb

So I did very little hardware tweaking over the years, but the hard drive is acting up from time to time, especially when it's humid out, and the fans are WAY too noisy. Add to that some bad bearings in the mobo fans(sounds like it's gonna blow up if I turn it on after it's been off for a while), and it's pretty clear I need me an upgrade. Badly. My maximum budget is $600, and I'd much rather go under that (that's BEFORE rebates).

Here's what I know I want:

AMD CPU of some kind (yes, I like them. Sue me.)
SATA HD no bigger than, say, 120 gb (I always seem to have space left over, even with games)
SATA DVD-RW, preferably slot-fed

Here are my questions:

1) I'm curious about small form factor, more for space-saving considerations and "cool" factor than anything else. I think Mini-ITX might be a bit too restrictive as far as performance, but what about Micro-ATX? Has anyone tried this? Will I be compromising too much? Is it possible to mount video/sound cards parallel to the mobo? Does any of this make sense?

2) I'm pretty sold on the idea of buiying a PCI1x16 video card (screw onboard video!), but what about sound? Do I really need an external sound card? I want to play games and occasionally DVD/video, but I don't plan on making this a "home theater" pc. I'll probably have a 2-speaker set with subwoofer (which I plan to buy later).

3) I want to have the option of watching TV on my pc. Right now, I don't have HDTV service, but should I plan ahead for that? What's a good and relatively cheap TV tuner card?

4) As you can see, it's been a few years since I kept up with the latest hardware trends. What pitfalls should I watch out for these days?

5) Any recommended hardware? I won't replace monitor, keyboard or mouse right now.

6) I used the retail heatsink on my current PC's CPU, and I hate it. It's too noisy. Is it a good idea to go OEM and buy a quieter fan? Who makes the best overall? I don't plan on overclocking. I just want a quiet fan that does a little bit better than it needs to (just in case )

Thanks in advance for the help!

[flanzig1]

1: uATX case uses a uATX motherboard which means having on-board video. And some uATX cases only use uATX PSUs which are limited in power. Should be able to find a mini-tower that will take a full ATX mobo and use an ATX PSU.
2: On-board sound these days is pretty good as long it is used with a decent speaker system.
3: Hauppauge are quailty units. You need to make sure to get a tuner card that is for the type of TV signal you have.
4: As always, compatability and junk brands of parts.
5: Could search the forums for AMD builds.
6: would start with the retail heatsink and see if you like it.

[Masaki 7-11]

Here is a build list for a good all-around AMD build for around $500 before rebates (without the OS):



LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model LH-20A1L-05
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106073
$29.99

COOLER MASTER Elite 330 RC-330-KKN1-GP Black SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119115
$34.99

Western Digital WD1200AAJS 120GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136225
$44.99

ASUS M3A AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131234
$89.99

BFG Tech BFGE86256GTSOCFE GeForce 8600GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143113
$109.99

COOLER MASTER eXtreme Power Plus RS-460-PMSR-A3 ATX12V V2.3 460W Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817171028
$39.99

mushkin 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996527
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146118
$44.99

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADO5000DOBOX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103211
$99.99

Subtotal: $494.92

[Sortofnewbie]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 Here is a build list for a good all-around AMD build for around $500 before rebates (without the OS): LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model LH-20A1L-05 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106073 $29.99 COOLER MASTER Elite 330 RC-330-KKN1-GP Black SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119115 $34.99 Western Digital WD1200AAJS 120GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136225 $44.99 ASUS M3A AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131234 $89.99 BFG Tech BFGE86256GTSOCFE GeForce 8600GTS 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814143113 $109.99 COOLER MASTER eXtreme Power Plus RS-460-PMSR-A3 ATX12V V2.3 460W Power Supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817171028 $39.99 mushkin 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996527 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146118 $44.99 AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADO5000DOBOX http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103211 $99.99 Subtotal: $494.92

Woot! thanks for the list. This stuff looks great! Just a few questions:

1) Why bother with two 1gb sticks on a mobo that can take 2gb sticks per slot? Wouldn't it make more sense to buy a single 2gb stick?

2) How "future proof" is this setup? I assume the CPU you're recommending isn't the fastest one this mobo can take, so I could upgrade to faster CPU some time down the road?

3) I may just suck it up and get the case you recommended, as it looks really good, but is there a mini-tower option out there? It's not THAT important to me. Just wondering.

Otherwise, very, very interesting. Maybe I won't wait for my tax refund to buy this stuff! Thanks again!

[bd1886]

Welcome! I too like mini-towers and am using an Antec Aria. (Good... but better ones out there.} Here is a better one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811133044

A modular power supply would be optimum (to be able to use only the power supply cables you need) and plenty of choices. A low profile HSF like: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118115, would be good too.

These style of cases take a little bit more planning and work. (But can be very satisfying to complete a good build with.)

Your limited to micro-atx boards but...depending on your needs, there are some good ones from Asus and Gigabyte that rock.

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by Sortofnewbie Woot! thanks for the list. This stuff looks great! Just a few questions: 1) Why bother with two 1gb sticks on a mobo that can take 2gb sticks per slot? Wouldn't it make more sense to buy a single 2gb stick? 2) How "future proof" is this setup? I assume the CPU you're recommending isn't the fastest one this mobo can take, so I could upgrade to faster CPU some time down the road? 3) I may just suck it up and get the case you recommended, as it looks really good, but is there a mini-tower option out there? It's not THAT important to me. Just wondering. Otherwise, very, very interesting. Maybe I won't wait for my tax refund to buy this stuff! Thanks again!

Two 1GB sticks will give you more performance than a single 2GB stick, since it can run in dual channel. Unless you are going to use a 64-bit OS, there isn't much point in getting 2GB sticks, at best you could get 4x1GB sticks, but getting more than that won't be recognized by the OS. 2GB of ram should be fine for a long time, I've been using 1GB of ram for most of my computers running XP, and 2GB for my computers running vista, and haven't had any performance issues with the ram.

The set-up is future-proof in that you have a lot of options in terms of upgrading CPU, Video Card, ect. At the moment the best processor you can get for that motherboard is a 2.3GHz Quad Core Phenom.

There are some mini-tower options, but you won't have a major reduction in size, and it will mean that you'll have to use micro-atx motherboard instead of a normal-atx motherboard, which will limit you upgrades, however if you're interested in a mini-tower, I can make some suggestions for the case and/or the motherboard, everything else should fit in.

[Sortofnewbie]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 Two 1GB sticks will give you more performance than a single 2GB stick, since it can run in dual channel. Unless you are going to use a 64-bit OS, there isn't much point in getting 2GB sticks, at best you could get 4x1GB sticks, but getting more than that won't be recognized by the OS. 2GB of ram should be fine for a long time, I've been using 1GB of ram for most of my computers running XP, and 2GB for my computers running vista, and haven't had any performance issues with the ram.

At some point, I might try for the 64-bit version of Linux, but that's not critical. Thanks for the tips. I'll stick with the two sticks, and if I wanna go up on the OS, I'll buy more ram, is all.

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 The set-up is future-proof in that you have a lot of options in terms of upgrading CPU, Video Card, ect. At the moment the best processor you can get for that motherboard is a 2.3GHz Quad Core Phenom.

Cool. I have upgrade options in the future.

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 There are some mini-tower options, but you won't have a major reduction in size, and it will mean that you'll have to use micro-atx motherboard instead of a normal-atx motherboard, which will limit you upgrades, however if you're interested in a mini-tower, I can make some suggestions for the case and/or the motherboard, everything else should fit in.

Hmm... it's not THAT critical, but I like the idea of something I can actually fit on top of my desk, instead of in the cabinet underneath (might keep it cooler, too). How much would it limit my upgrades in the future?

[Masaki 7-11]

A mini-tower limits your upgradability mostly in how many expansion cards you can fit in (PCI cards, video cards, ect), the type of CPU cooler you can use (you'll have to use retail or low profile fans/heatsinks), and you'll have trouble with higher end video cards since they're quite long and may not fit into the case. If you're not overclocking, and will stick to midrange video cards, you should be fine with a mini-tower.

[Sortofnewbie]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 A mini-tower limits your upgradability mostly in how many expansion cards you can fit in (PCI cards, video cards, ect), the type of CPU cooler you can use (you'll have to use retail or low profile fans/heatsinks), and you'll have trouble with higher end video cards since they're quite long and may not fit into the case. If you're not overclocking, and will stick to midrange video cards, you should be fine with a mini-tower.

I don't plan on overclocking (not brave enough for that), and I wasn't planning on using any components other than what you've listed above (and maybe a PCI tv tuner card, too). What would be a good mini-atx mobo/cpu/case combo that would work with the above components? I'm just curious so I can compare. I confess I like the look of that Cooler Master tower up above, and may just go with that, but it'd be nice to scope out a mini-atx alternative.

[Masaki 7-11]

This is a good micro-ATX case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119088 (I don't think there is mini-atx available at the moment, if there is I've never heard of it, have heard of mini-ITX though)

Couple it with this motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131273 and you should have a solid micro-ATX tower, you can just replace these two items with the case and motherboard in your build list, and you'll have all the parts you need with only about $10 increase in price.

[bd1886]

Just a thought...The cases that are truly small and could fit "comfortably" on a desktop,tend to be the shuttle style cases. These have pretty tight restrictions for upgrading (and the Thermaltake that I suggested is still too large to sit on a desk). Cost wise...Masaki's suggestion is very smart.

I'm gonna post some pics' of my Aria box (for gigs). It would fit the bill perfectly, but does have restrictions in the upgrade dept.

The finishing is something that I did to match my furniture. (But you can get an idea as to size anyway.)
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...tecAria003.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...tecAria002.jpg
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...tecAria001.jpg

[Sortofnewbie]

Hmm... both cases look very interesting. Hard to tell, even though the CD tray gives some perspective, just how much room one of these takes up. I admit I'm not THAT committed to a small form factor. I just thought it might make more sense. I don't envision having that many expansion cards, beyond a TV tuner and PCEx16 video. The rest, I think, can be done on the mobo. Is it mostly the lack of PCI slots that turns people off to the smaller sizes? What about heat/noise? Is it possible to get a system as cool and quiet in small form factor as the Cooler Master ATX case Masaki originally mentioned?

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by Sortofnewbie Hmm... both cases look very interesting. Hard to tell, even though the CD tray gives some perspective, just how much room one of these takes up.

On the Newegg page you can click on the Specifications tab and see the dimensions of most cases. A micro-ATX case is smaller than a standard ATX case, but the footprint isn't much smaller...they're mostly just shorter. You might want to look at some micro-ATX slim cases or some micro-ATX desktop cases.

Originally Posted by Sortofnewbie Is it mostly the lack of PCI slots that turns people off to the smaller sizes?

Most gamers and enthusiasts will avoid micro-ATX cases because they're hard to work in. But the average computer user probably really doesn't care because most never, ever open the case to work on the computer...they take it to a shop when they need something done to it (or call a friend who is a computer enthusiast).

Originally Posted by Sortofnewbie What about heat/noise?

Heat and noise can be a problem if you try to build a high end gaming computer in a micro-ATX case. But a simple basic computer can work just fine in a micro-ATX case...you just have to select the parts with care.

Originally Posted by Sortofnewbie Is it possible to get a system as cool and quiet in small form factor as the Cooler Master ATX case Masaki originally mentioned?

With careful selection of parts you can build a cool, quiet computer in any case. You just have to select parts that are known to run cool and quiet. Your choice of case fans is very important as is the power supply (because of the fan in it)...there are passively cooled power supplies, but most don't catch the eye of enthusiasts. Seasonic power supplies are known to be some of the most quiet running power supplies on the market.

You might want to check out these web sites:

End PC Noise

Quiet PC USA

Silent PC Review

Cricket

[bd1886]

Home Theater PC's are another option. Large footprint but you can "hide" them with stereo components. (Things are heading that way anyways.) No matter which route you take,having a silent,cool,unobtrusive, (and powerful) computer, is easily attainable. You can even do it on tight budgets these days. Good stuff.