buy vs build...

[woosmaster]

Is it plausible to spend little money now getting a prebuilt machine (HP or dell probably) and upgrade it later when I have the money? Are prebuilt machines fully upgradeable? Or should I wait until i can pay up for a $2000+ homemade machine?

[shadowpr]

You can upgrade some prebuilts, but usually only to a certain extent.

What is your budget? And what will the computer be used for?

You can definately build a computer now for under $2000.

Will the budget include monitor and operating system?

[woosmaster]

my budget is $2000 MAX (preferably 1500ish)...this includes monitor and operating system.

This will be a gaming PC

[shadowpr]

You can build something for that price.

If you're interested in trying that, let us know. We can help you put a system together. Or you could post back with your part choices after reading a few threads in the build your own forum. There a lot that concern gaming builds.

[Katreat]

For a gaming machine I would definately recommend building yourself. You can build a lot of computer for $1500. Building is fun and you get the pick your parts. For just everyday office machines it is hard to build for less. I build them just becuase it is fun, but doubt I save any money in the process.

Kat

[piasabird]

My rule of thumb is never take it for granted you can upgrade a retail computer. Just upgrading may void your warranty. They often come with a power supply that is barely good enough for the system.

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by woosmaster Is it plausible to spend little money now getting a prebuilt machine (HP or dell probably) and upgrade it later when I have the money?

You don't want to use a pre-built as the base for a gaming computer.

Originally Posted by woosmaster Are prebuilt machines fully upgradeable?

For gaming? Nope.

Originally Posted by woosmaster Or should I wait until i can pay up for a $2000+ homemade machine?

You can build a decent gaming rig for about $1200. $2000 will build you a very nice gaming rig.

Does the $2000 budget include the monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers? Or just the computer itself?

Cricket

[woosmaster]

I have $2000 tops for everything combined...I don't need a huge hard drive, i have some software, too. I don't need a huge monitor either, I woud just like to run recent games on decent settings.

So it looks like the consensus is to build...time to research.

[Cricket]

With $2,000 for everything, you could break it up so that $400 or $500 is for the monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers and $1,500 or $1,600 is for the computer itself.

Do you want a AMD or INTEL computer?

Cricket

[Doom]

I learned a lot by getting "Building a PC for Dummies" at a used book store. It's a little dated (doesn't address dual cores or SLI), but the basics are all there and it will de-mystify a lot of anxiety folks may have with a new system.

I'm waiting for that tax refund before buying to build. I started out with a very good gaming system for just over $1000 (not including monitor, keyboard or speakers which I already have). My most recent parts list is about $1600... but it gives the exact same hardware and capabilities as a $5000 VooDoo PC from HP.

The more kick-butt you make your machine for gaming... the more savings you'll see from what retail would be.

[Al Pollock]

I have benn building computers for some time now . I see what you get in a "box store " computer and there is no comparison. Lets stat with the the PS...you don't get an Antec or a better grade PS with box store's.Mb forget it you get run of the mill with Box store ,not an Asus ,abit ,gigabyte or one of the better MB..DVD drives, burners etc are all no names ,memory , fans case etc therre is no comparison ....Old adage "you get what you pay for " Amen........

[juppy]

Originally Posted by Al Pollock ....Old adage "you get what you pay for " Amen.....

That's very true with prebuilts. I remember when I helped my brother order a new Dell for his ex-gf. It wasn't what you'd call a gaming machine, but she only needed it for internet surfing anyway. I told him at the time that we could probably upgrade it afterwards if we wanted to. Total cost was around $650. I opened it up to see what we could upgrade.....HA!.....it didn't even have a slot for a current video card! Where the plastic slot/card holder was supposed to be was just a flat spot on the motherboard with all the connection holes soldered shut. That's how they make you pay alot extra $$$ for their top-tier machines....they don't give you the option of upgrading the cheaper machine yourself.

[woosmaster]

that brings up another question:

buying a PC would only allow upgrades in the immediate future while building will allow upgrades for...how long?

Will i technically be able to keep the same PC for like 20 years? How long should a motherboard last?

[woosmaster]

sry for double-post, but if they answer to the above question is "yes" (it will last a while), how do i go about selecting parts? I've done some searching adn haven't found much on AMD vs Intel...I have stumbled across "barebones systems"...are these worth it?

Thanks for all of your time and help guys (and/or girls), i appreciate it

[juppy]

Nah, you won't get either a prebuilt OR a self-built computer to last for 20 years. You might get a good 8 years or so out of, but after that amount of time, hardware requirements move on without you and they stop making driver updates and stuff that is compatible with your older equipment. That's what happened on my previous machine. I was using a Pentium 1 with a 150 MHz processor and Win 95. By about 2002 to 2003, it got to the point where I couldn't even get updates for things like Real Player and Quicktime, because the hardware requirements were faster than what I was running. Granted, you can still run the machine with your current software just fine as long as the hardware keeps kicking......you just lose the ability to run anything "new" and get updates because at a certain point the parts just get too old and the companies stop supporting them.

As for which is better, prebuilt or self-built, that's entirely up to you. If you're someone who's just going to do things like surf the internet or maybe you just need a decent office computer, then a prebuilt will work fine. If, however, you're one of those people that always needs the latest video card or you keep wanting to add more memory or other add-on features, then a self-built will be more to your liking, because you can pick and choose the options that you think you might want to expand to in the future. With a prebuilt, you can pick certain things, but they're cheaper in price partly because there's not alot of difference between the machine you're getting and one that someone else is getting. Pretty much a thing where they'll let you pick things like hard drive size and how much memory but the rest is a "take it like we give it to you" situation. In other words, you don't have a choice of brands of motherboards, power supplies and such, so the quality of the parts might not be as reliable with a prebuilt.

[radar_1_2000]

MaximumPC Magazine has an article about building a $1500 PC in April's issue. You might want to pick up the issue for ideas.
It includes the OS but no monitor, KB, or mouse.

[woosmaster]

Originally Posted by juppy Nah, you won't get either a prebuilt OR a self-built computer to last for 20 years. You might get a good 8 years or so out of, but after that amount of time, hardware requirements move on without you and they stop making driver updates and stuff that is compatible with your older equipment. That's what happened on my previous machine. I was using a Pentium 1 with a 150 MHz processor and Win 95. By about 2002 to 2003, it got to the point where I couldn't even get updates for things like Real Player and Quicktime, because the hardware requirements were faster than what I was running. Granted, you can still run the machine with your current software just fine as long as the hardware keeps kicking......you just lose the ability to run anything "new" and get updates because at a certain point the parts just get too old and the companies stop supporting them. As for which is better, prebuilt or self-built, that's entirely up to you. If you're someone who's just going to do things like surf the internet or maybe you just need a decent office computer, then a prebuilt will work fine. If, however, you're one of those people that always needs the latest video card or you keep wanting to add more memory or other add-on features, then a self-built will be more to your liking, because you can pick and choose the options that you think you might want to expand to in the future. With a prebuilt, you can pick certain things, but they're cheaper in price partly because there's not alot of difference between the machine you're getting and one that someone else is getting. Pretty much a thing where they'll let you pick things like hard drive size and how much memory but the rest is a "take it like we give it to you" situation. In other words, you don't have a choice of brands of motherboards, power supplies and such, so the quality of the parts might not be as reliable with a prebuilt.

8 years is a good amount of time...plus there is the ability to recycle parts. cool, cool. okay well i'll probably get back to you guys after doing some more research on parts. Just so that i have it right, the motherboard and cpu are the most important parts, right? Everything connects to the motherboard, so before selecting anything else, i have to make sure it has slots for everything?

[Cricket]

Originally Posted by woosmaster 8 years is a good amount of time.

The average computer stays in service for about 4 to 6 years. You can keep the case much longer than that as long as ATX remains a standard. Other components will either become very outdated or will die from use.

Originally Posted by woosmaster Just so that i have it right, the motherboard and cpu are the most important parts, right?

We feel the most important part is the power supply, but yes, when specing out a computer you should put more thought into the motherboard and CPU.

Originally Posted by woosmaster Everything connects to the motherboard, so before selecting anything else, i have to make sure it has slots for everything?

As long as you select a fairly new motherboard it will support most common components. If you plan to use uncommon things (like FireWire) then just select a motherboard with support for those items...or get a expansion card.

It sounds like you're planning to build a gaming rig. Do a little research and then post the parts you're looking at and we'll let you know if they're compatible or not and how good they are.

Cricket

[Doom]

Woosmaster...

To give an idea of what you can save w/ self builds... I found that VooDoo PC uses the same graphics cards, motherboard and processor that I was going to put in my own build. The price of the VooDoo was about $5500. I'm doing pretty much the same thing for $1500. And since I know 100% of what's in my system and what it's capable of... future upgrades are a lot easier and I'll end up being able to use my system much longer than a commercial system which saves even more money.

[InfiniteGrim]

Originally Posted by woosmaster 8 years is a good amount of time...plus there is the ability to recycle parts. cool, cool. okay well i'll probably get back to you guys after doing some more research on parts. Just so that i have it right, the motherboard and cpu are the most important parts, right? Everything connects to the motherboard, so before selecting anything else, i have to make sure it has slots for everything?

Right now i have a pentium 3 windows me PC with 192mb or ram. I have Xp installed on it and it actually is pretty decent for movies and we browsing, but it can't do hd or anything. I have only upgraded 1 thing, i added a 160GB hard drive, a year ago and it cost me $40. Now i can build a beast of a computer by recycling my mouse, monitor(19" widescreen LCD), DVD drive/ cd writer, and hard drives, and operating system. It will only cost me around $450-500 to get a processor, ram, motherboard and video card, not a bad deal. But there is one problem, companies change connectors every once in a while. It took me 2 days to actually find a decent motherboard that had all the latest things, but still had 2 ide/PATA connectors, so i can use my two hard drives and 2 dvd and cd-rw drives. So basically you can recycle most things, but things that you most likely arent going to recycle are video cards, processors, motherboards and ram, which are usually the things that become outdated and make you PC so bad compared to modern tech. And of course, as soon as i do upgrade my PC, the USB will come out.

Also remember with prebuilt stuff, that nothing is made like it used to be. My dell pentium 3 PC still has at least another 5 years in it, and i got it in 2000, everything works great, but i bought a penitum 4 HP and it has had a motherboard fry(lost alot of stuff and required a $100 repair). Also prebuilt PCs have lots of extra crap installled on to it because the companies basicaly use yoour PC as advertising, also the version of windows they install have their software imbedded into it. When you build you own the PC is as clean as it ever could be.

Another point is that prebuilt PCs cannot be overclocked, and you building a gaming rig, you could get a cheap processor to almost run as good as the $1000 ones. A core 2 duo e6750 2.66Ghz can be easily overclocked to 3.92Ghz on a stock cooler

[shadowpr]

Originally Posted by InfiniteGrim A core 2 duo e6750 2.66Ghz can be easily overclocked to 3.92Ghz on a stock cooler

I would have to disagree with that statement there.

[InfiniteGrim]

Originally Posted by shadowpr I would have to disagree with that statement there.

Unless you have tried it, because these guys did and it worked with great results. Although i wouldn't run it at that for an extnded period, it workes and can beat a stock Core 2 Extreme X6800 in SANDRA's Processor Arithmetic benchmark, and also completed a Cinebench rendering pass in just 18 seconds.


http://www.hothardware.com/articles/...review/?page=2

"This time around, however, our results were nothing short of spectacular. By bumping the processor's core voltage to 1.45v and increasing the front side bus speed via our Asus P5K Deluxe motherboard's BIOS, we were able to take the Core 2 Duo E6750 up from its default clock speed of 2.6GHz to an impressive 3.92GHz (multiplier=8x / Front Side Bus Frequency=490MHz. This was done using the stock Intel CPU cooler on an open-air test bench. At that speed, the CPU completed a Cinebench rendering pass in just 18 seconds and it blew past the Core 2 Extreme X6800 in SANDRA's Processor Arithmetic benchmark."