Parts are in the mail! - Anything to worry about?

[DarkPacMan77]

I don't expect there to be any compatibility issues with these parts, but then again, that's why I'm here. My gaming laptop (everex xt5000t) recently died, and I'm in the RMA process right now, but since I'm so rich I decided to build a gaming rig

... not really, that's a lie. I'm not rich... but here are the parts I chose.

MOBO: Biostar A770
GPU: EVGA 8800GT 512mb / 256-bit
HDD: WD Caviar SE16 320gb / 16mb cache / 7200 RPM
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ Brisbane 2.8ghz 65W
RAM: Wintec AMPX DDR2 800mhz 4-4-4-12
CASE/ PSU: Nextherm ICS 8200
OPTICAL: Lite-on 20x DVD R Burner w/ lightscribe
OS: WinXP 32-bit

I also picked up some Arctic Silver 5 for my processor.

This rig will be a general purpose rig, but obviously a budget high-end gamer as well.

Is there anything that looks goofy to you guys? Also, I plan to use the 460W power supply that is included. It has 18A on each of the +12V rails and 30A on the +3.3 and +5V. After research, I found that the AC unit in the case takes up 52W of power, so it should handle the 8800GT just fine, I think.

[DarkPacMan77]

I don't mean to be rude by double-posting, but it seems 17 people have viewed this thread and I know that there are very experienced users browsing this forum.

I trust you guys and I'm not sure I can put a value on the amount of help I've received here in the past. Please reply. I'd more than appreciate it, especially if something with my build is generally a bad idea or is incompatible.

Thanks a ton and a half,

-DarkPacMan77-

[metzger385]

I would have changed a few things such as the ram and the HDD.

For ram: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146118

or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146673

For HDD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148309

The HDD is a little bit less storage but it has 32mb cache which is very nice.

Also like many others say i would not go with the PSU that comes with the case. I would go with an Antec or Corsair psu and im sure 450w would be enough.

Hope this helps out.

Metz

[shadowpr]

I would definately change that ram. Look at corsair, mushkin, g.skill, ocz, or crucial, or a-data.

I would get a better power supply. Look at this list: http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=131195

Iwould probably get at least a 550 too.

You don't need artic silver for a retail processor, it will alredy come with thermal paste on it.

[liambl]

It should be OK but I'm not sure on the Biostar mobo, its not the best but its not the worst either.

[Cricket]

Wait...are you saying you already ordered these parts are they're on their way to you now? If you already ordered them what's the point of telling you there is anything to worry about? It's too late.

Cricket

[Nathan7056]

Originally Posted by DarkPacMan77 I don't expect there to be any compatibility issues with these parts, but then again, that's why I'm here. My gaming laptop (everex xt5000t) recently died, and I'm in the RMA process right now, but since I'm so rich I decided to build a gaming rig ... not really, that's a lie. I'm not rich... but here are the parts I chose. MOBO: Biostar A770 GPU: EVGA 8800GT 512mb / 256-bit HDD: WD Caviar SE16 320gb / 16mb cache / 7200 RPM CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ Brisbane 2.8ghz 65W RAM: Wintec AMPX DDR2 800mhz 4-4-4-12 CASE/ PSU: Nextherm ICS 8200 OPTICAL: Lite-on 20x DVD R Burner w/ lightscribe OS: WinXP 32-bit I also picked up some Arctic Silver 5 for my processor. This rig will be a general purpose rig, but obviously a budget high-end gamer as well. Is there anything that looks goofy to you guys? Also, I plan to use the 460W power supply that is included. It has 18A on each of the +12V rails and 30A on the +3.3 and +5V. After research, I found that the AC unit in the case takes up 52W of power, so it should handle the 8800GT just fine, I think.

For starters, the mobo is likely a bad decision. I dont know much about Biostar, and probably for the worst. You should have went with a much better well known brand such as ASUS or GIGABYTE. Although the reviews on that board do look pretty decent for a mobo, so give it a go i guess. I also would have personally spent the extra 40-50 bucks or so and gone with a Core 2 Duo processor. You should have chosen another brand of RAM, but thats already been addressed.

Even if you go with all of that you are definitely going to want to buy a separate PSU. 460watt is cutting it short for that system but its not even the wattage itself (although i doubt that PSU is capable of 460watt). The two 12v rails running at 18amp will require you to load balance your video card on both rails. I made the mistake of not knowing this. I had an Enermax 480watt PSU with 2 12v Rails running at 22amps each. The CPU power plug and PCI-E power connector were on the same 12v rail, i didnt think about it, and had both of them being ran on it. The under ampage finally took my 8800 GTS 640mb to the grave about a month ago playing oblivion.

I would suggest getting perhaps a CORSAIR PSU Rated anywhere over 500+ watts. Look at getting perhaps a single powerful 12v rail running upwards of 40amps. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139004 That is the one im running and its a very solid PSU.

Also the Arctic Silver 5 wont be necessary the pre-applied paste will be fine, although you might as well keep it, its handy to have.

[DarkPacMan77]

The parts are in the mail, true, but that doesn't mean it's "too late". Not at all, IMO. Anyways, I know the RAM is Wintec ram, but I think what people don't understand much of is that Asus uses Wintec RAM modules in their laptops quite often and I've never heard of a complaint there, and I have two friends that each have sold computers at retail. Myself, I've read about Wintec countless number of times and although I understand all of your worries about Wintec and it being off-brand, I'm actually pretty solid on this one. Wintec has been the choice of many computer enthusiasts and just because it isn't mainstream yet, I don't think that's enough to count it out. Transcend and Super Talent, also off-brand, each have rave reviews all across the net. I mean, if the RAM works once, it generally always does until the system dies from other reasons and neither heat nor overclocking should harm my Wintec modules.

The power supply is really where it's kind of iffy. I know the Corsair line is very nice. My only issue with swapping out the power supply is that I would have to lose some of the functions of the case itself in doing so. Therefor, I don't plan to change the power supply, but instead, I think I'd rather protect my build from being fried if it's actually something to worry about.

What kind of voltage protection products are out there. It's been a while since I've particularly looked at those products. I'd be happy protecting the parts until the PSU blows, if it does, and then I'd definitely look into something more stable. I know that kinda makes you guys cringe... but I'm ok with it. Help for picking out those items would be appreciated though.

There's been many reviews I've come across online in which have used 3870 cards by Ati with this case. That card is technically more advanced than the 8800GT (GDDR4 memory / 320 stream processors) and people say it's just fine with wattage to spare, even with the AC.

I worry that this website, as much as I love it, has really become a site which only recommends Asus and Gigabyte motherboards, Sonata/ p180 cases, power supplies with five hundred bajillion super-duper watts of power, the best graphics on the market, and only Kingston or Corsair RAM. The truth of the matter is that Wintec is actually quite reputable, and not negatively so. Biostar is usually budget, but is well-made with good customer support, and that I know of people that have 300W power supplies and use 7900 series graphics cards.

I appreciate all of your feedback, really do, but I can't help but be a little arrogant. Since I'm keeping the build how it is, the least I can do is protect it from a possible faulty power supply

Thanks

-DarkPacMan77-

[flanzig1]

Yes, we do tend to have a short list of brand names that we recommend for different components but that list is from hundreds of people who have built thousands of computers using probably every brand and model of parts in many configurations. And with that body of experiance, certain brands/models of parts are proven good/reliable over time and certain brands/models seem to be at the bottom of the heap.

One thing I don't understand is your statement about "lose some of the functions of the case itself in doing so" if you change out the PSU. The PSU in that case is a standard PSU so if it dies, it can take out other parts of th PC the same as any other PSU.

[DarkPacMan77]

I know that. I've been a member for a few years. Most of my posts are no doubt made in this section because I used to help people out and do the same thing. All I'm saying is I'm pretty solid on Wintec but I'll admit, that power supply is looking a LITTLE iffy.

Aren't there little cords that can be connected between the power supply and say, the graphics card, that offer over-voltage protection? I'd be willing to buy such things for every component in my case if someone can point in the right direction. I need help choosing components to help protect my system from a possible faulty power supply. Any ideas/ recommendations?

-DarkPacMan77-

[flanzig1]

The PSU and some what the motherboard provide the voltage regulation for the different voltages. So, with cheap/off brand PSUs, they tend to skimp on the line protection and voltage regulation to keep the cost down. That is why they tend to take out motherboards and such when they die where as good quaility units have quaility parts for protection and regulation and usually don't kill parts when they die.

[DarkPacMan77]

Would you recommend a UPS unit, or do you think I'd be fine?

Furthermore, I do remember reading ONE review about an "iffy" power supply bundled with that case, but in that situation, it was only missing the +12V rail by .2 and not often either. That seems perfectly within temperance, even compared to top models.

-DarkPacMan77-

[flanzig1]

If you live in a place with dodgey power and/or in a thunderstorm prone place, then yes a UPS is almost a must to protect electronics. Many will say to get one for that one bad power day.

[DarkPacMan77]

I was thinking that would be the case. Are there any that you know of that are reputable models/ brands? I have very little knowledge of UPS units.

-DarkPacMan77-

[shadowpr]

The one I have, and was recommended to me: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16842111026

[DarkPacMan77]

Thanks for the recommendation. If I notice unstable voltages, I'll either swap out the PSU or consider purchasing a UPS like that one.

Nearly all reviews have made it a point to exclaim that the power supply is high quality though, so I guess we'll just see.

Thanks a ton for the feedback guys.

-DarkPacMan77-

[liambl]

I stuggle to understand your logic about the PSU, wait until something happens before replacing it. Unstable voltages are only a small percentage of PSU problems. The power supply my not provide clean power (ripple). This can cause lots of problems and damage. Or ti may just blow for no reason at all, killing the components. I would just replace it asap.

[DarkPacMan77]

Replacing the PSU may result in me not being able to power up the display on the ICS 8200 or even use the AC altogether, something I purchased the system for in the first place. Even downgrading the graphics card would be an option I'd consider before losing the functionality of my high-end case investment.

I'm only testing out the unit first. I haven't found a single site that rated the ICS 8200 case at lower than 85% of a good review, and almost all make the point be known that they found the PSU to be tip top working condition for 460W and very stable. My worries?... eh... Crysis, primarily. While watching/ reading through videos/ first-hand reports, some people mention that their system can spike as high as 460-480W on the power supply. That's definitely a worry in my case, but I'm going to start low, and work my way up - all the while closely paying attention to my wattage gauge on the ICS 8200 which has been proven to be much more accurate than other gauges. I shouldn't have any problem powering the system and using a 8800gt in it, but for very high-end uses, I'm not confident the system will yield enough power yet. I'll make sure to let you guys know.

I think it's also extremely important to let you know that the video account of the 480W peaks during Crysis was from a guy on youtube that goes by "jabcreations" or close to. Anyways, his power supply only has a combined total of 18A on his +12V rails to begin with, which is lower than his dual 8800GT setup recommends by FAR (26A being recommended by EVGA). He does, however, successfully run an SLI setup, and it's very likely that the reason his peak wattage is so high is because it's working double-time on the PSU's end (in his build) because it doesn't have the amperage on the +12V rails to begin with. That's not unheard of or anything. I believe he's only running a 500W also.

While idle, or casual use, most reviews show that the wattage does not exceed 200W by very far at all. Regarding the 460W total, and keeping in mind that 460W is not the effective power, I know I'm taking a risk... but when I read 500 claims all across the internet that say they are using 3-5 year old Hiper or Hipro power supplies, or something to that extent, and that their amperage on the +12V rails doesn't come close to powering their 26A recommendations for their 8800GT, and they are using 350W - 450W power supplies and playing The Witcher, COD4, Crysis etc. at 35+ fps casually on high settings, I can't help but believe them.

Lastly, and sorry for the long post, but we all know that companies recommend much higher wattages for their graphics cards than they need. Nobody likes being sued... so that's a good way to give them a safety net. Based on 90% of the material I've read, I should be just fine.

Maybe I won't be fine. Maybe everything will be ruined. Maybe I'll cry like a girl. If so, I'll post back here so that you guys can laugh at me.

-DarkPacMan77-

[flanzig1]

Your tought and comments about other people using sub 400w PSUs with big cards and having no problems may be true but they are playing with the distruction of their rigs.
Those PSUs are probably being used to their max output and that output can drop by as much as 20% to 30% due to the heat.

[Katreat]

I personally am still stuck at why you want this case so bad that you are going to such an effort to rationalize your decision? Your build is not so cutting edge that heat should be a major issue. Just about any case with a couple of fans should suffice.

If you are setting up your computer in a boiler room you might have a reason but that would also lend support for a better PSU since the better units have superior cooling built in as well as being better suited to handle the heat.

If you are planning on major OC’ing the air conditioner might help keep things cool but for a major OC you also need more power so again a better quality PSU would be called for to handle that stress.

I thought you might be going for Silent, but checking a couple of reviews it appears the compressor on this case runs at more than 50 db which is substantially louder than the most effective after market coolers and PSUs.

So why are you so into this case that you would accept potential instability and lower performance just so you can use it?

Lastly, and sorry for the long post, but we all know that companies recommend much higher wattages for their graphics cards than they need. Nobody likes being sued... so that's a good way to give them a safety net. Based on 90% of the material I've read, I should be just fine.

You need to talk to more people in the electrical industry and get your facts straight. Power use is based on extensive testing, not a fear of being sued. The safety factor comes from the fact that basically no one runs a electrical component under full load. In a controlled testing environment you can push the video card far beyond what the average consumer will while playing a game. The manufacture wants the minimum requirements as low as possible to help sells, it is industry approved testing procedure that determines what they are allowed to list.

I worry that this website, as much as I love it, has really become a site which only recommends Asus and Gigabyte motherboards, Sonata/ p180 cases, power supplies with five hundred bajillion super-duper watts of power, the best graphics on the market, and only Kingston or Corsair RAM. The truth of the matter is that Wintec is actually quite reputable, and not negatively so. Biostar is usually budget, but is well-made with good customer support, and that I know of people that have 300W power supplies and use 7900 series graphics cards.

This forum on the whole recommends quality and performance. That does not mean another product will not work, it just means that from the collective information available your chances of success are diminished. Why would you want the forum to recommend items with less than stellar reputations for quality and support?

Kat

[Drunner611]

Considering a 8800gt draws nearly twice the watts a 7900gt does, that is a very poor comparison.

[DarkPacMan77]

Could someone please help me match the pins correctly? The motherboard manual gives these pin names:

1. Mic Left in
2. Ground
3. Mic Right in
4. GPIO
5. Right line in
6. Jack Sense
7. Front Sense
8. Key
9. Left line in
10. Jack sense

The cords from the case are labeled:

MIC-POWER
GROUND
L-RET
MIC-IN
R-RET
L-OUT
R-OUT

Help aligning these pins would be great. It's the last thing I need to do.

The build is complete, and I was right about everything I stated. I haven't seen the voltages on the power supply fluctuate even 0.01V. While gaming under Crysis with 8x anti-aliasing and all high graphics under 1280 x 1024 resolution with the GPU overclocked and the fan at 50% with the air conditioner on, the wattage gauge never shows anything climbing over 250W. The build booted up the first time with no issues whatsoever and the RAM works at rated specs perfectly and stable. I didn't mean to sound arrogant before, or even like I was ignoring you guys. The fact of the matter is, I'd done much more homework about these components than you guys, and you guys weren't willing to learn as I had about the components, and there's no two ways about it. So NOW is my time to sound arrogant. You guys were completely wrong.

-DarkPacMan77-

[flanzig1]

I think you may have the MIC labels incorrect. I bet the maual says MIC L and MIC R which stands for MIC Line In and MIC Return.
Also, the board pinout looks to be for HD sound and the case is the older AC'97 sound connections. You need to check the mobo manual for using AC'97 with the case wiring. If you want the HD sound, you need either a case that has that type of connections or an optional header from the mobo maker.

[liambl]

The BIOS should have an option for setting the onboard sound to AC'97 (My Asus did).

[DarkPacMan77]

The board is not AC'97 compatible. I learned that was the problem. It's not so much a "problem" though, as the only thing I wanted to plug it in for was the 1 headphone port. My Logitech speakers have a plugin on the right satellite speaker for headphones, so that's not a problem really. I may be able to use the MIC L and still hook up the port, but it's not a concern right now. There is probably an adapter out there also.

Sorry for delay in my response. I've had the system for about 3 weeks now and it's 100% stable. I should run 3dmark to see where I match up. Super pi and memtest and all those other fun tests came back swell. I even went to 3.0 ghz on the processor and clocked the graphics card to the superclocked version's speeds, but I've returned to stock settings b/c I have no need to overclock. Stock values power through anything I do. Crysis and Photoshop CS2 are probably the most advanced things I use.

-DarkPacMan77-

[Lucky23]

What functionallity would you loose with the case? normally the power supplies are close to the same size. Weight will probably be different between a good ps and a cheap one but how is it going to conflict with the case?

[Katreat]

Originally Posted by DarkPacMan77 So NOW is my time to sound arrogant. You guys were completely wrong.

Hmmm! Lets see, you have now completed a mid range gamer build using a PSU that is both underrated for the graphics card installed and of questionable quality. It worked so now everyone is wrong, you are right! Does that about sum it up?

Not to pop your bubble but just because it works does not mean you are right and others are wrong. Look at it this way, components from the worst company to ever build computers work over half the time or the company would not be in buisness......... glad to hear you got Lucky!

Kat

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by DarkPacMan77 Could someone please help me match the pins correctly? The motherboard manual gives these pin names: 1. Mic Left in 2. Ground 3. Mic Right in 4. GPIO 5. Right line in 6. Jack Sense 7. Front Sense 8. Key 9. Left line in 10. Jack sense The cords from the case are labeled: MIC-POWER GROUND L-RET MIC-IN R-RET L-OUT R-OUT Help aligning these pins would be great. It's the last thing I need to do. The build is complete, and I was right about everything I stated. I haven't seen the voltages on the power supply fluctuate even 0.01V. While gaming under Crysis with 8x anti-aliasing and all high graphics under 1280 x 1024 resolution with the GPU overclocked and the fan at 50% with the air conditioner on, the wattage gauge never shows anything climbing over 250W. The build booted up the first time with no issues whatsoever and the RAM works at rated specs perfectly and stable. I didn't mean to sound arrogant before, or even like I was ignoring you guys. The fact of the matter is, I'd done much more homework about these components than you guys, and you guys weren't willing to learn as I had about the components, and there's no two ways about it. So NOW is my time to sound arrogant. You guys were completely wrong. -DarkPacMan77-

Just curious, how did you test you power supply? The problem with most low priced parts is that they either don't work from the beginning, or they fail soon after they are used. Higher priced parts will almost always last longer than lower priced parts in the same environment/situation.