New Build (Updated)

[callmeseuss]

Hey all, thanks for you help on my previous (and first!) post. I've gone through and updated the system I'm thinking of building a bit, and I'm posting it below. Financial goal of this is to try and keep it as close to or under $800 before shipping&tax (Currently ~$850). I also haven't figured out if I can use my old case (ATX mid-tower) for this build yet either. New questions for the rig are below:

1) Do you have any suggestions for a video card/processor combo that would be more compatible/efficient working with each other?

2) Any suggestions on components that could be cheaper without sacrificing much performance?

3) Opinions of the Mobo/Video/Memory/CPU in overclocking (if I decided to).

4) Given how large the 9800GTX+ is supposed to be, can I fit it in a mid-tower ATX or do I need a full tower?

Any other suggestions you want to make are always welcome too!

System Specs

Case: Yet to be decided

PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail

Mobo: ASUS M3A78-T AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

CPU: AMD Phenom 9850 BLACK EDITION 2.5GHz Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HD985ZXAGHBOX - Retail

HDD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3250410AS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Seagate ST3640323AS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

RAM: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPI - Retail

Pri Optical: LITE-ON Combo Black SATA Model DH-52C2S-04 - OEM

Sound Card: Soundblaster Audigy 2 (Current) haven't decided on replacement

Video Card: XFX PVT98WYDFH GeForce 9800 GTX+ 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail


Thanks again!

[shadowpr]

I would make a few changes.

Firs thing I saw was that you can lower that power supply down to a corsair 650 and still be good.

Also, get a dvd drive instead of a cd. And get retail. It will come with software, and cable.

I would get a seagate 7200.11 500gb drive. If you want two, then get two of those, or get a 1tb drive.

I assume this is a gaming computer? If so, you might want to look at the 4850 video cards. They are supposed to be good. Look to see which is cheaper, and go for that one.

If you won't overclock, then you can drop the ram down to ddr2-800.

I'll leave suggestions on the mb and cpu to others that know amd better.

[Doom]

First up (and as shadowpr said), you can seriously downgrade the PSU on this. Moving to the 620x-650w will be more than enough to take care of a good video card. Corsair makes very good PSUs (I've used two now), and I've become partial to the 620w modular supply. It's reliable, powerful and allows you to limit the wires present in the case.

Cases: Antec 900 and Cooler Master CM 690 are the two I've used and really like. Antec will give better overall cooling in this case and the clear side is good if you want to see the internals. Otherwise, I liked the CM 690 better. Tool-less construction and internal wiring were done very well and it will provide ample cooling (assuming you don't intend to overclock).

For your specific questions...

1) Nope...just keep in mind that for gaming, many people recommend a faster dual core processor paired with a great GPU. For multitasking and "future-proofing" people often recommend putting dough into a quad core processor.
2) Downgrading the PSU will free up some $$. I was happy with a single 9600GT Superclocked GPU in my original build. It gave good performance even before SLI. If you're not doing any serious gaming it might work for you at less money. If you want to make your friends green with envy when playing Crysis though...invest in a good GPU.
3) Beats me...besides, I'm an Intel geek.
4) You certainly won't need to go with a ATX Full Tower. Both cases I mention above can handle a card of that size. I put a GTX 260 in the CM 690 and had about 3/4" to spare for wiring. My Antec 900 sports 2x 9600GT...though wiring is a little tighter.

Try out the on-board audio before using or purchasing a new sound card. I'm pretty darn happy with the Realtek on-board audio I've got on my rigs.

Good Luck

[callmeseuss]

First off, thanks for the replies!

To your responses:

Funny thing about the PSU is that the Corsair 650W is the same price as the 750W with the discounts that newegg is currently supplying... I figured why not get more power if it's not difference in price haha.

I've now downsized the RAM, and HDD. Doom, I'm considering your suggestion on the CPU. The low price tag on the X4 processors just caught my eye and I couldn't let go. I'm looking at this if I do go dual-core iinstead of quad:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ 3.1GHz 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM2 89W Dual-Core Processor - Retail THOUGHTS?

Shadowpr - I'm not sure what you meant by me getting a DVD instead of CDROM. The drive I picked up there is a combo drive. Do you mean I should get a dedicated DVD-ROM instead of a combo?

In regards to the GPU: The 9800 GTX+ is supposed to be a beast of a card, but I know that there a considerably better cards out there (for a higher price tag). I'm looking at this guy: Sapphire 4850 512mb 256-bit GDDR3 PCI-Express 2.0 x16 But I am open to suggestions there.

[shadowpr]

The combo drive states this: LITE-ON Black 16X DVD-ROM 52X CD-R 32X CD-RW 52X CD-ROM SATA Combo - OEM

It just reads dvd's, and writes to cd's. You might as well get a dvd burner: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106264

I like the 4850 that you picked. If you want to see which one does perform better, you might want to check: www.tomshardware.com and look for their video card charts.

[joshrogoff]

This is the processor you want...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103233

The one you posted is 1 mb L2 cache, the one here is 2 x 1 mb L2 cache. Its faster and cheaper, might as well...


Also, i have that same mobo and i'm happy...

[callmeseuss]

Ok, took shadowpr's advice on the optical drive, that'll be pretty sweet. And that processor is pretty...

As far as the video goes it's a close call between nVidia's 9800GTX+ and ATI's HD 4850. Tom's Hardware has them performing very close to each other with nVIDIA's beating out ATI's on everything except (for whatever reason) the HDR/SM 3.0 test. With both cards being practically the same price I have three questions to put your opinions into:

1) Will the ATI card perform better than the nVIDIA given that I'd be paring ATI/AMD in this system? I think I remember nVIDIAs usually working to their full potential with Intels... (boo)

2) ATI's 4870 kicks the ass of both of these cards (and most stand alone cards on the market right now) and is $70-100 more... would you go for it on a budget?

3) I don't know ATI manufacturers at all as I've been buying nVidia for a long time now. Do's and Don'ts?


One more question: Why do people suggest Dual-Cores over tri/quad for gaming machines?

[Doom]

I'm going to take a stab at the quad vs. dual core debate and hopefully get it right (if not...knowledgeable folks will correct me). Quad core chips are very good for people who are going to be multitasking like there's no tomorrow. In this case, you have lots of complex programs going at once and four cores to essentially share the work.

Games however, aren't coded or run in such a way that all four cores are taken advantage of. You're not running lots of demanding programs...you're running one very demanding program. In this case...having lots of cores isn't as important as getting the most speed possible out of fewer cores. You've got one core focused on the game while the other takes care of all the crap windows (or another OS) has going on in the background. With a quad core... you've got two cores that aren't being fully utilized.

For the real life example...check out the two builds in my signature. My first build paired a nVidia 9600GT with a 2.5GHz quad core that cost me about $300 at the time. My second build paired a much less expensive 3.0GHz dual core with a much more capable GTX 260. Both of these builds auto detected Crysis at high settings...but there was a clear difference in how they handled the game. The second build was much smoother during complex animations. You'll notice that both systems use the same mobo, optical drive, hard drive and ram, and the second even has less power...so I consider this to be a reasonable test case to illustrate the point. Essentially...even if I can't clearly state why a dual core is the recommendation of gamers I've seen the application of it and can vouch for the difference.

[>:() - Tiki Man]

Its not necessarily a benefit to have fewer cores, its just cheaper. Most games, nearly all games, can not yet effectivley scale to more than two cores, let alone 8 like on a skulltrail setup. For the vast majority of games out for now and those for the near (relevant) future, anything along ~3ghz with 2 cores is perfectly sufficient. What will really allow for a more fluid gaming experience is the graphics card - and regarding Doom's testimonial, I think that was the result of the GTX 280 dominating graphically, not the processor so much. A GTX280 vs a 9600GT isnt a terribly illuminating comparison, as those cards in two different leagues. If you want to spend money and want top of the line, get a crap ton of cores. There is no way that a dual core cpu will out perform a quadcore cpu if all cores are clocked at the same clock. But the difference for gaming is negligible. Furthermore, the quad cores tend to run hotter than their dual core counterparts. Its all about willingness to spend, and desire for the best of the best. Furthermore, I have a 3870X2 with 1gb DDR3 onboard and a 3850 with 1GB DDR3 onboard both of which I love and which can handle my triple 22" monitor gaming setup. Finally, as for ati or nvidia, go for the one which your mobo supports- as in crossfire (ati) or sli (nvidia). Ive mixed and matched amd cpus and nvidia cards before without problem, but for future upgradability i would recommend to go with your chipset manufacturer.

[callmeseuss]

Beautiful, is all I have to say. Not only does this system look like it will be a ton of fun to use, the changes you all suggested have shaved ~$150 off of the price I would have been paying.

The updated build is listed below if you want to make any further comments. At this point the only thing I'm deciding whether to change or not is the case and maybe buying a replacement to the Audigy 2 sound card I have right now.

CASE - Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz Socket AM2 89W Dual-Core Processor Model ADA6000CZBOX
MOBO - ASUS M3A78-T AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard
PSU - CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply
RAM - G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ
GPU - HIS Hightech H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported IceQ4 Turbo Video Card
OPTICAL - LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model iHAS120-08
HDD - Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

[shadowpr]

Nice looking build there.

I actually did two builds with the antec 300, and like the case a lot. I actually like it more then my antec 900. Go figure.

I would try the onboard audio first, and see if you like it, if not, then try your current audio card. If you want better after that, then I would invest in a sound card.

[callmeseuss]

Awesome! Thanks for all the help guys, I can't wait to put this baby together!

[callmeseuss]

Ok, so after doing a bit more research I'm trying to make a final choice on which Video Card to buy. After a good deal of reading on Tom's Hardware and NewEgg prices I'm between the ATI HD 4850 and the 4870. Price difference isn't too much, but the 4870 out performs the 4850 in a lot of areas.

Current choice from above: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161244

I'm either going for at $15 price increase on the card listed above with this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102759

or a $70 - $90 increase (respectively) with one of these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161236
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102795

Thoughts??