What's the Risk?

[Clement_95]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here! I came here after reading the build your own pc tutorial.

Anyway, my question is: when one builds a PC, what is the average risk that it will not work? Or will have some malfunctions? I am planning to build a PC sometime a while later (think 1-2 years). Why so much later? I want to wait until Nehalem is proven. Also, my lucky number is 3, and Westmere is supposed to have 6 (2x3) cores. Not really a reason, but oh well.

Two more not-so related questions:
1. In ATI vs. nVidia, which would be better? Please, I would prefer opinions from only those who have used both, unless vital information is given. It would also be nice to have it current, because it is yet a while until building-time. I am planning on a pretty powerful system, still kinda sketchy on it because of the time-delay.

2. Should I first make a cheapy computer for experience? Maybe buy some really crappy parts, put them together, or buy a $250 Dell, disassemble, reassemble, kind of idea.

Edit: Oh yeah, I have a budget cap of $3000.

Thanks!

[Doom]

I've built two rigs now with zero problems in any component. Before that, I upgraded cards and RAM with no incident over the course of three earlier computers in 11 years. Yes...there is always the risk that something won't work, but I don't think it's that much at all. The keys are to 1) use good quality parts, 2) find brands that people here recommend as having good support and 3) take it slowly while installing.

I understand about waiting until Nehalem (also dubbed Core i7) is proven, but if your budget is $3000, you really don't need to wait for it. I think you'll find that after about $1800-$2000 on a rig (not including monitor)...you hit a point of diminishing returns and don't need to spend much more. You can put together a kick-butt rig in the immediate future for well within your budget.

Other stuff:
- nVidia vs. ATI... unless you have a gut preference for one or the other, people swear by both here. The key is to get the best value for your money or what you're willing to spend. Check out the video card comparisons at www.tomshardware.com to see what cards are currently on top. Could be ATI this month and nVidia the next if a new product comes out. That way you can be current whenever you decide to build.
- You can make a cheap rig as a test...but the process is simple (if you take your time) and I went full out on my first build. It worked like a charm and I've been hooked ever since.

Do your research... post a parts list on this site and get reactions from people... then knock yourself out. You can also get the most recent version of "Building a PC for Dummies"...but if you can get it from a library it's better since it may be a little dated (my copy has no mention of SLI or xFire).

Otherwise...if you really can wait that long you're much more patient then I'll ever be.

[juppy]

I agree with what Doom posted, and he really covered the majority of stuff really good. One thing I just wanted to add though is if you aren't totally 100% sure about something, don't guess, ask questions. That's what this forum is here for, to help. I mean, you would think people would know that but most new builders seem to have a fear of asking the dreaded "stupid question". To kill that thought....in a nutshell, if you don't know the answer for sure then it's NOT a stupid question, so ask away.

And by all means, post a list of your parts and the people here can sort through 'em and make sure everything's compatible and not junk or a total ripoff, or maybe point you to something that would be better suited for your build. And that's one of the biggest things too.....get decent parts. With your stated budget, that doesn't seem to be a problem at all, but many new builders think all parts are equal and they go with the cheapest one they can find. Word to the wise....all computer parts are NOT equal. If it's cheap, there's a good REASON it's cheap, and that reason would be because it's substandard trash. Building a computer out of cheap bargain bin parts will generally give you more headaches than its worth. But if you go with good brands and know the installation procedures, you shouldn't have many problems. And like I said, if you do, just ask and somebody will try to help you out. Good luck with the build.

[HAL9000]

All good words of advice.

No, don't buy a bunch of cheap stuff to build a computer just for the experience... trust me, an experience with cheap parts will frustrate you to no end and you won't want to build that dream machine.

When it does come time to build that machine, as stated, post your list here so the voice of experience from the members can judge if everything is compatable.

Don't make the biggest mistake most people make... buy great computer components, then buy a 1000w power supply from just any manufacturer thinking it has plenty of watts. That power supply is equally, if not more important than the other components.

If you follow the advice you have been given by the previous two people, that new machine should fall together and fire up the first time.

[Clement_95]

Originally Posted by Doom I understand about waiting until Nehalem (also dubbed Core i7) is proven, but if your budget is $3000, you really don't need to wait for it. I think you'll find that after about $1800-$2000 on a rig (not including monitor)...you hit a point of diminishing returns and don't need to spend much more. You can put together a kick-butt rig in the immediate future for well within your budget.

Thanks for the advice Doom! Just wondering... do you mean I shouldn't wait for Core i7, or I shouldn't wait for it to be proven?

BTW, Bonus Question! (not related)
My friend wants a pre-built computer, and he was wondering about something... when will the price of Core 2 Quads bottom out without being outdated by Core i7?

Thanks everyone! I'm so happy with this forum. --Clement

[Doom]

Sorry about that...I meant that you can build a great computer without an i7 processor at this time. It's a very good idea to hold off on the i7 for a while and see if the expectations surrounding it are met. But that lengthy process doesn't mean you have a sacrifice getting a great machine in the near term.

Given that i7 is just getting released, it's going to be a long time until the prices on older chips bottom out. I haven't specifically followed price falls like that... but I'd have to guess that we're talking a multi-year time frame at a minimum.

If your friend is looking to buy in the near term... use the pressures around the current economy to your advantage. Stores (to include the computer industry based on news releases this week) are expecting a serious drop in buisiness this holiday season compared to the last few years. As such... most companies will be looking to improve business and sell as much as possible to minimize the drops. That means this year will likely be a benchmark in sales.

The waiting time might be a little obscene... but +/- four days from Thanksgiving should be a good time to get great deals on all manner of pre-built or BYOPC stuff.

[Clement_95]

But my problem with that is that I wouldn't be able to upgrade that well, seeing as how i7 uses a different socket. Right? Or would I just have to switch a motherboard and a processor?

Oh, would the 4870x2 graphics card be good? I'm already looking at parts, and that thing seems amazing. Also, why does the 4850x2 seem to be so much in the dark?

[kpa2727]

a other side note that's very important and often not mentioned, when pc building , static electricity is u biggest enemy, grounding urself is the best thing in the world at reensuring when u push the power button everything fires up as it's supposed to and nothings faulty.

[Clement_95]

Oh yes, I am definitely going to purchase an anti-static wrist band. Only question is, how do they work? Where does the clip go?

BTW, previous questions still unanswered...

[Alaron]

Yes the i7 chips use a different socket. But if you always wait to buy, you'll never build. You have to just jump in.

The 4870x2 is a great card.

The wrist straps ground you to avoid building up static electricity. Just clip it to a metal part of the case.

[shadowpr]

I agree with most said here.

Like Alaron said, if you keep waiting for the next best thing, you'll never build.

Personally, I didn't use antistaic straps. If you just touch the case before you start working, you should be fine. That and some common sense go a long way.

And if you're not going to build now, then don't buy a video card now. Get it all at the same time. Two reasons for this. The first is that if you buy it now, and wait to build with it then the warrenty will run out and if it's defective you will be out money. The second reason is that newer parts are constantluy coming out, especially video cards, and they keep getting better and thus reducing the prices of the previous models. So if you buy now, then in a year when you build that will be closer to the bottom of the performance pile and will be a fraction of the cost you spent.

[Doom]

For the eventual upgrade, you're correct in that you would need a new mobo and chip. You'll also need another RAM card. The current architecture uses dual channel...meaning you get the best results in multiples of two. For the i7...it moves to three channels. No biggie...if you buy 4GB of RAM now you would just get another 2GB later on.

Also... the Core 2 Quad extreme chips that are priced around $1000+ will eventually need to be sold, so I wouldn't say you don't have any chip upgrade options.

That being said, I think you'll find that with a Q9550 chip paired up with a smoking GPU card will be able to handle most games for quite a while. By the time you would really need to move to an i7, the prices will be a "normal" levels since that should be a couple years down the line at a minimum.

Others can correct me... but I don't think the advantage to the i7 is the speed as much as it is the interaction with memory and graphics... so it's not like you'll be far behind the power curve with a Core 2 Duo socket.

[Masaki 7-11]

The Core i7 has already proven itself in the sense that it is clock for clock faster than Core 2 Quad in everything. For gaming, Core i7 doesn't provide that big of an improvement (10-20%) on a clock for clock basis, however for applications like encoding, ray tracing, ect. Core i7 provides a major improvement (over 50% for the most part) compared to the Core i7 on a clock for clock basis. The Core i7 920 currently sells for as much as the Q9550 and an X58 motherboard is about as expensive as a X48 motherboard, so if you are building a higher end computer now, you don't really have a reason not to go with Core i7 (unless you are overclocking as most reviews show the non extreme versions of the Core i7 don't overclock as well as the Core 2 Quads. Regarding ATI vs. Nvidia, I've used both and haven't had serious problems with either, I found ATI to have slightly better quality than Nvidia in terms of videos (SD and HD), but other than that gaming performance and such has been great with both. I would go with whatever has the better performance for your budget, however you may want to stay away from X2 cards as they are very dependent on the drivers, if new drivers aren't made for them, new games won't be able to take advantage of both GPUs and performance can be as low as that of a single GPU.

[Doom]

I must admit... today I saw some of the prices and was very suprised that they aren't that much more expensive at all from the old socket. I may look to upgrade chip and mobo sooner than I thought (though still a year away or so).