Building a gaming rig - Been out of the scene since the P4 days.

[dacomputernerd]

Hey guys. The last gaming/overclocking rig I built was a Socket 478 3.0E Prescott, clocked at 3.5GHz for stable gaming. 256MB DDR ram, ATI 9600XT card I believe.

Since then, I switched over to an Apple Macbook Pro, which i've been gaming on for the past two years, using XP Pro under bootcamp. (Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz, 2GB ram, Radeon X1600 256MB). It scores 2400 3D marks in 3Dmark06, with minimal GPU overclocking.

Anyways, the Mac gets rape'd when trying to play new games, even when using an external monitor set to 1024x768.
What I really want is a rig that will play a modified version of Oblivion (lots of modifications including detailed textures, CPU intensive mods aswell), with everything maxed.
With only some texture mods, and the graphics settings turned down, it destroys my Mac (10-15 fps)

I need a crash course in whats changed in the past few years, since my P4 days. I know that PCI express has now overtaken AGP, but after that I never really kept up with it.

Now i'm looking at building a new rig, with pretty much all new parts.
What I have saved from my old rig(s) is as follows, and i'd like to use as much of it as possible to cut down on costs:
-P4 478 Case (Server-ish style, plenty of cooling) - Do the new Mobo's have different standoff positions, which would make the case unusable?
-19" CRT Viewsonic
-XP Pro 64bit
-CD and DVD burners (IDE)
-Keyboard and mouse, speakers, etc.

What are the prices of the core components (Mobo, CPU, ram, GFX, PSU, HDD) going for these days? I'd like to keep it an Intel based rig. What can I get with a budget of $500? What about $1000?


What would you guys recommend to me parts wise? I'm shooting for a minimum of 4gigs system ram, and 512MB GFX ram.
I'll be running XP Pro 64 bit, none of this Vista crap for me. (Yes i've had first hand experience with it.)

Thanks for reading all of that! I look forward to whatever assistance you guys can provide
-DCN

[Alaron]

Welcome to PCM.

If your existing case is an ATX Tower, you can re-use it no problem. The other items should be fine to re-use.

Of course the higher the budget, the better the parts. $500 for a gaming rig would be trimming it a bit, but its do-able, especially with room to upgrade. For $1000, you'd be all set with a great rig. And you've saved a bit with an OS and some extras.

Here is a basic list to start:

Asus P5Q Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500
4GB DDR2-800 RAM Corsair
650w Corsair Power Supply
500GB Seagate SATA Hard Drive
Radeon HD4850 Video Card

That puts you right around $750 in the middle of your budget. We can tweak from there.

[Masaki 7-11]

Here is what kind of parts you can expect from a $500 Gaming PC: http://forum.pcmech.com/showpost.php...15&postcount=7

Here for a $1000 Gaming PC: http://forum.pcmech.com/showpost.php...08&postcount=1

[dacomputernerd]

Originally Posted by Alaron Asus P5Q Motherboard Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 4GB DDR2-800 RAM Corsair 650w Corsair Power Supply 500GB Seagate SATA Hard Drive Radeon HD4850 Video Card

Ok, a few questions.

-What is the difference, gaming wise, between a dual core, and quad core CPU?

-How do the Core2Duo's overclock? Could I get something a few steps down from an E8500, and overclock it back up to those specs, to save some cash?

--What about video card overclocking? How do new cards handle it?

Thanks for all the help so far,
DCN

[shadowpr]

A dual core is usualy faster than quad cores, but of course quad cores come with 4 cores while thedual only has 2. Most games don't even take advantage of 2 cores right now, so it's recommended that you just get a faster dual for just gaming, and get a quad if you do a lot of multitasking or if you have software that will take advantage of multiple cores.

To overclock the core 2 duo, first read the stickies. It basically invloves adjusting the bios and then testing for stability.

The E8400 is lower priced and overclocks well, but for the extra few dollars, you might as well get the E8500. Also, overclocking voids warrenties.

[dacomputernerd]

Originally Posted by shadowpr A dual core is usualy faster than quad cores, but of course quad cores come with 4 cores while thedual only has 2. Most games don't even take advantage of 2 cores right now, so it's recommended that you just get a faster dual for just gaming, and get a quad if you do a lot of multitasking or if you have software that will take advantage of multiple cores. To overclock the core 2 duo, first read the stickies. It basically invloves adjusting the bios and then testing for stability. The E8400 is lower priced and overclocks well, but for the extra few dollars, you might as well get the E8500. Also, overclocking voids warrenties.

Alright, so dual core it is for sure then.

So your saying that overclocking isn't worth the price difference? I know in the P4 days, you could buy something like a 2.4 for A LOT cheaper then a 3.0 (even after getting better CPU cooling), and overclock it back up to the same specs, but in actuallity it was better due to a higher FSB.
Not the case anymore?

I don't care about warranties at all, by the way.

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by dacomputernerd Alright, so dual core it is for sure then. So your saying that overclocking isn't worth the price difference? I know in the P4 days, you could buy something like a 2.4 for A LOT cheaper then a 3.0 (even after getting better CPU cooling), and overclock it back up to the same specs, but in actuallity it was better due to a higher FSB. Not the case anymore? I don't care about warranties at all, by the way.

It is still the case, however the dual core processors are pretty close together in price and usually the higher clocked processors will overclock better than the lower clocked processors due to the higher multiplier. If you are interested in having a more futureproof computer take a look at the Core i7 processors, they overclock pretty well and are 10-20% faster clock for clock than the Core 2 series processors. For other applications such as encoding, the Core i7 processors are over 40% faster clock for clock than the Core 2 series.

[dacomputernerd]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 It is still the case, however the dual core processors are pretty close together in price and usually the higher clocked processors will overclock better than the lower clocked processors due to the higher multiplier. If you are interested in having a more futureproof computer take a look at the Core i7 processors, they overclock pretty well and are 10-20% faster clock for clock than the Core 2 series processors. For other applications such as encoding, the Core i7 processors are over 40% faster clock for clock than the Core 2 series.

Righto. Yeah this computer will mostly be for gaming, i've got a C2D MacBook Pro for everyday use. Therefore I can't really justify the price difference going to a Core i7 chip.

Originally Posted by Alaron Asus P5Q Motherboard Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 4GB DDR2-800 RAM Corsair 650w Corsair Power Supply 500GB Seagate SATA Hard Drive Radeon HD4850 Video Card That puts you right around $750 in the middle of your budget. We can tweak from there.

Could I trouble you for some links (Newegg.ca) for those? I'm having trouble matching up some of them by name only.

How does the P5Q board and that Corsair board handle overclocking? What CPU cooler would you recommend for my high-airflow case?

[Masaki 7-11]

What is your budget for a computer?

[dacomputernerd]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 What is your budget for a computer?

I want to spec a computer for a $500 budget, and also for a $1000 budget. Then i'll probably pick parts from both and end up around $750.

[Masaki 7-11]

If you are planning on overclocking, here is a good parts list for $750 (the processor can be overclocked usually to 3.6GHz fairly easily if it is a G0, if it is a B3, it is fairly easy to overclock to 3.2GHz):

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148288
$64.99

HIS Hightech H487F512P Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161236
$199.99

PC Power & Cooling S61EPS 610W Continuous @ 40°C EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817703005
$94.99

mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996587
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146731
$49.99

ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131299
$129.99

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor Model HH80562PH0568M
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115018
$179.99

XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835233003
$28.99

Subtotal: $748.93

[dacomputernerd]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 If you are planning on overclocking, here is a good parts list for $750 (the processor can be overclocked usually to 3.6GHz fairly easily if it is a G0, if it is a B3, it is fairly easy to overclock to 3.2GHz): Subtotal: $748.93

That comes out to just under $1000 at Newegg.ca, just as Alaron's setup did.

Certainly A LOT more bang for my buck then the setup Alaron recommended right? I mean, I should be able to overclock the CPU to perform better then an E8500, and you included a better graphics card in there.

One question if you don't mind. Would I be better off going with something like this (newegg.ca...N82E16820145214), Rather then the generic Mushkin ram you suggested? I'd like to run my memory 1:1 with the FSB, so the Corsair stuff seems like the better idea for what little price difference there is between them.

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by dacomputernerd That comes out to just under $1000 at Newegg.ca, just as Alaron's setup did. Certainly A LOT more bang for my buck then the setup Alaron recommended right? I mean, I should be able to overclock the CPU to perform better then an E8500, and you included a better graphics card in there. One question if you don't mind. Would I be better off going with something like this (newegg.ca...N82E16820145214), Rather then the generic Mushkin ram you suggested? I'd like to run my memory 1:1 with the FSB, so the Corsair stuff seems like the better idea for what little price difference there is between them.

To get the Q6600 to 3.6GHz you will have the FSB at 400MHz (or 1600MHz Quad Pumped), therefore you need ram at 400MHz (or 800MHz Dual Channel). The Mushkin ram I recommended has lower latency than the Corsair and runs at stock voltages, it can also be overclocked a decent bit if you need to (I currently am using that type of ram and have it overclocked to 470MHz or 940MHz Dual Channel at 2.0V). Are you buying the parts from Canada?

[dacomputernerd]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 To get the Q6600 to 3.6GHz you will have the FSB at 400MHz (or 1600MHz Quad Pumped), therefore you need ram at 400MHz (or 800MHz Dual Channel). The Mushkin ram I recommended has lower latency than the Corsair and runs at stock voltages, it can also be overclocked a decent bit if you need to (I currently am using that type of ram and have it overclocked to 470MHz or 940MHz Dual Channel at 2.0V). Are you buying the parts from Canada?

Yeah I totally agree with you after reading the reviews for both. I guess Corsair has gone downhill bigtime since my P4 days. Yes i'm in Canada.

[dacomputernerd]

Ok Masaki 7-11, let me ask you this.

If I had to trim the fat out of that setup, where would be the best place to do it?

[dacomputernerd]

If you are planning on overclocking, here is a good parts list for $750 (the processor can be overclocked usually to 3.6GHz fairly easily if it is a G0, if it is a B3, it is fairly easy to overclock to 3.2GHz): Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148288 $64.99 HIS Hightech H487F512P Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161236 $199.99 PC Power & Cooling S61EPS 610W Continuous @ 40°C EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817703005 $94.99 mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996587 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820146731 $49.99 ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131299 $129.99 Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor Model HH80562PH0568M http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115018 $179.99 XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835233003 $28.99 Subtotal: $748.93

How does this setup look to you guys, from an overclocking and stability standpoint? I'll be running it in a high airflow case.

The last thing I overclocked was a 478 P4 3.0E Prescott. (If you've used this chip, you know how hot the Prescott's ran, so it was good that I got it to a stable clock of 3.5Ghz, and maxed it out once at 3.75Ghz)

Anyways, I need a crash course in overclocking the Quad Cores of today



Edit: Just wanted to say that this computer will be used as a gaming rig 95% of the time.
I much prefer my MacBook Pro in OSX over XP or Vista for day to day use.

[chuck4456]

Originally Posted by dacomputernerd How does this setup look to you guys, from an overclocking and stability standpoint? I'll be running it in a high airflow case. The last thing I overclocked was a 478 P4 3.0E Prescott. (If you've used this chip, you know how hot the Prescott's ran, so it was good that I got it to a stable clock of 3.5Ghz, and maxed it out once at 3.75Ghz) Anyways, I need a crash course in overclocking the Quad Cores of today Edit: Just wanted to say that this computer will be used as a gaming rig 95% of the time. I much prefer my MacBook Pro in OSX over XP or Vista for day to day use.

Should be a good rig.
Even with a big XIGMATEK a Quad can be tough to keep cool. Quads are a lot of fun to overclock and a challenge to stabilize at a higher FSB without using some considerable voltage.
Although many have claimed to reach a stable high FSB overclock with less than adequate voltage.
Just get an E0 Stepping E8400. Or even E8500. Great prices on those these days.
They overclock well and will do anything that you want at mega speed. Temps aren't bad either.

[dacomputernerd]

Originally Posted by seodeveloping Honestly... I wouldn't trim anything out of it.

I agree with you, but if I had to make it a little less expensive, where would be the best place to do it? How does this look? (Prices in CDN$)

E8500 - $236
PQ5 Pro - $175
PC Power & Cooling S61EPS 610W - $120
mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) - $68
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB - $82
SAPPHIRE 100245L Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 - $200

Total: $880 CDN

Edit:
Also, are you positive a Q6600 would be a better choice over an E8500 for gaming? I mean, i'd have to overclock an E8500 a lot less, to get the same gaming performance right?

[dacomputernerd]

Originally Posted by chuck4456 Just get an E0 Stepping E8400. Or even E8500. Great prices on those these days. They overclock well and will do anything that you want at mega speed. Temps aren't bad either.

So I would be better off getting an E8500 rather then a Q6600 for gaming?

[MaxRat]

yes....dual cores do better at gaming than quads due to the higher clock speed...

[dacomputernerd]

Originally Posted by MaxRat yes....dual cores do better at gaming than quads due to the higher clock speed...

Righto. So will a P5Q Pro board still work well for an E8500?

What about ram, i'll need DDR2 800 right? What is the FSB on an E8500?

Also what CPU cooler do you guys recommend, for a high airflow case?

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by dacomputernerd I agree with you, but if I had to make it a little less expensive, where would be the best place to do it? How does this look? (Prices in CDN$) E8500 - $236 PQ5 Pro - $175 PC Power & Cooling S61EPS 610W - $120 mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) - $68 Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB - $82 SAPPHIRE 100245L Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 - $200 Total: $880 CDN Edit: Also, are you positive a Q6600 would be a better choice over an E8500 for gaming? I mean, i'd have to overclock an E8500 a lot less, to get the same gaming performance right?

That looks pretty good, regarding the processor, it depends on the type of games you play. If you plan on playing RTS games, these will usually be able to take advantage of quad core and will play faster on a Q6600 than on a E8500 at stock speeds. Most other games such as FPS, RPG and Racing won't be able to take advantage of the E8500. If you want to overclock the processor at some point, you should be able to get it up to 4.0GHz with a decent heatsink. You should be able to save some money by going with an older motherboard: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813131288 (ASUS P5KPL-CM $67).

[glc]

A P5Q Pro is a suitable board. I would get DDR2-1066 ram for overclocking, because the E8500 has a 1333 FSB. DDR2-800 would effectively limit you to 1600 FSB.

[dacomputernerd]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 That looks pretty good, regarding the processor, it depends on the type of games you play. If you plan on playing RTS games, these will usually be able to take advantage of quad core and will play faster on a Q6600 than on a E8500 at stock speeds. Most other games such as FPS, RPG and Racing won't be able to take advantage of the E8500. If you want to overclock the processor at some point, you should be able to get it up to 4.0GHz with a decent heatsink. You should be able to save some money by going with an older motherboard: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813131288 (ASUS P5KPL-CM $67).

I'll mostly be playing FPS games, with some Farcry 3, and Oblivion mixed in there, but that's nothing an E8500 can't handle.

That motherboard you linked doesn't seem to have the best reviews on Newegg. Is there any other one you would recommend?

[dacomputernerd]

Originally Posted by glc A P5Q Pro is a suitable board. I would get DDR2-1066 ram for overclocking, because the E8500 has a 1333 FSB. DDR2-800 would effectively limit you to 1600 FSB.

1600FSB should give me 3.8Ghz through right? How much farther can the E8500 go on air? I want it to be stable, and I don't want to use too much voltage, as I want this chip to last me.

If it can go farther, what DDR2-1066 ram would you recommend? I don't mind paying a little more for reliability, within reason of course.

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by dacomputernerd I'll mostly be playing FPS games, with some Farcry 3, and Oblivion mixed in there, but that's nothing an E8500 can't handle. That motherboard you linked doesn't seem to have the best reviews on Newegg. Is there any other one you would recommend?

A lot of people on this site recommend that motherboard for a lower budget. You'll notice that only 2 out of the 41 reviews are 1 out of 5, all the other reviews rate the motherboard 3 or higher. I'd say that's pretty good for reviews.

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by dacomputernerd 1600FSB should give me 3.8Ghz through right? How much farther can the E8500 go on air? I want it to be stable, and I don't want to use too much voltage, as I want this chip to last me. If it can go farther, what DDR2-1066 ram would you recommend? I don't mind paying a little more for reliability, within reason of course.

Unless you push the voltage a lot, you're not likely going to be able to push the E8500 past 4.0GHz. Most of the higher end ram will overclock reliably, like I've said in the other post, the blue series Mushkin ram overclocks easily to 470MHz or DDR2-940, at that frequency you would be able to push the E8500 to 4.6GHz before running into problems with ram speed. If you want to overclock by increasing voltage, you'll want to get a higher-end (over $100) motherboard such as this: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813131347. Some of the less expensive motherboards lack options for overclocking or increasing voltage.

[dacomputernerd]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 A lot of people on this site recommend that motherboard for a lower budget. You'll notice that only 2 out of the 41 reviews are 1 out of 5, all the other reviews rate the motherboard 3 or higher. I'd say that's pretty good for reviews.

Alright, how does this board handle overclocking? Will it do FSB speeds above 1600Mhz, with 1066RAM in dual-channel mode?

[Rev_pizzaguy]

I did a build for a friend and used this ram. It was great and stayed very cool with the extra fans (didn't add any extra noise either).


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145197

[dacomputernerd]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 Unless you push the voltage a lot, you're not likely going to be able to push the E8500 past 4.0GHz. Most of the higher end ram will overclock reliably, like I've said in the other post, the blue series Mushkin ram overclocks easily to 470MHz or DDR2-940, at that frequency you would be able to push the E8500 to 4.6GHz before running into problems with ram speed. If you want to overclock by increasing voltage, you'll want to get a higher-end (over $100) motherboard such as this: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813131347. Some of the less expensive motherboards lack options for overclocking or increasing voltage.

Righto, missed that part.
Looks like i'll have to decide what I want to spend, and then go from there.

Thanks for all your help Masaki 7-11, and everyone else who's helped me out