New Backup PC

[Masaki 7-11]

I've recently finished building the backup PC in my sig and already I have a buyer for it. Since I'll be needing a new backup PC, I was looking at getting an AMD based system so I can also use it for demoing. I don't have a specific budget for the system, but I'm looking at around $300 for the parts that I need. I currently have the OS, case, memory, optical drive, hard drive and video card for the system, just looking at getting the motherboard, processor and powersupply. I will be using the system for a bit of gaming, but I'm mostly concerned with multi-tasking and day-to-day use, the processor will probably be overclocked a bit. I plan on building this computer in the next few months, how does my parts list look?

XP Professional (32-bit) SP3

Mushkin HP2-6400 High Performance DDR2 SDRAM (5-4-4-12), 4GB Dual Pack (Have)
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Product....aspx?curtab=2

Cooler Master Elite 330 Chassis, Black (Have)
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Product...14200(ME).aspx

SEAGATE 500GB Barracuda 7200.11 SATA II w/ NCQ, 32MB Cache (Have)
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Product...19181(ME).aspx

LG Super Multi Security DVD Writer 20x20x12x, SATA, Black (OEM) (Have)
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Product...19532(ME).aspx

EVGA E-GEFORCE 8600GT 540MHZ 256MB 1.4GHZ GDDR3 PCI-E (Have)
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...nufacture=eVGA


MSI K9A2 Neo-F AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813130173
$91.89

hec HP585D 585W ATX12V Power Supply - No Power Cord
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817339009
$29.67

AMD Phenom 9600 Agena 2.3GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Quad-Core Processor Model HD960ZWCGDBOX
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16819103244
$115.89

ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 64 Pro 92mm CPU Cooler
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16835185125
$36.99

Subtotal: $274.44

[glc]

That HEC power supply is not a good choice. They used to make some decent low powered units, but that one you are looking at is a time bomb. I'd spend the extra 20 bucks for an Antec Basiq 500.

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by glc That HEC power supply is not a good choice. They used to make some decent low powered units, but that one you are looking at is a time bomb. I'd spend the extra 20 bucks for an Antec Basiq 500.

How would a 350W powerman PSU (I have a spare) work for my build? Using a power supply calculator, I got the necessary amount of wattage to be 338W with the processor overclocked to 2.5GHz, 100% CPU Utilization, 100% Peak Load, and 20% capacitor aging.

[glc]

If you are going to overclock, don't cheap out. That's cutting it too close. The Powerman may be decent, but how do you know it can handle a 338w draw and still be stable?

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by glc If you are going to overclock, don't cheap out. That's cutting it too close. The Powerman may be decent, but how do you know it can handle a 338w draw and still be stable?

I put in a decent bit of headroom when doing the power supply calculations, it's very unlikely if not impossible to get the computer to 100% (TDP) CPU Utilization and 100% System Load, using the recommended settings of 85% (TDP) CPU Utilization and 90% System Load with 20% capacitor aging, I get a recommended PSU wattage of 278W. I may not even bother to overclock since it requires an extra 25W over stock and is pretty difficult to do with the Phenom 9600 (especially since the motherboard that is in my parts list does not have advanced clock calibration).

[glc]

What's the amp ratings on the +12v rails? Can you confirm via the UL number that the Powerman is in fact a FSP?

[Masaki 7-11]

I'll take a look when I get back home, currently at school. The powerman units I have are quite heavy and have good cooling so it should be able to handle the load; I'll check the UL number and amp ratings to make sure.

[glc]

I'm concerned that it may be one of the older ATX 1.x units with only a single +12v rail and the majority of its power on the 5 volt rail. That would not be wise to use with a PCI-E graphics card, even if it has a 20+4 main connector.

[Masaki 7-11]

Here is what information I got on the power supply:

PowerMan IP-350AJ2-0 (one of which is currently being used in my backup computer with the voltages within acceptable range [+/- 2%] during idle and load)
+3.3V : 28.0A
+5V : 30.0A
+12V : 18.0A
+5Vsb : 2.0A
-5V : 0.3A
-12V : 0.8A
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coo...in-psu2_6.html

[jdeb]

http://www.foxconnchannel.com/produc...D=en-us0000424

[jdeb]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ONN-_-13186141

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by jdeb http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ONN-_-13186141

I like the board layout, however some of the parts such as the heatsinks and capacitors are of low quality. I usually keep my computers for a decent period of time and then sell them, so I'd like the parts to last for a decent bit. So far haven't had any problems with MSI motherboards.

[glc]

Please do not use that power supply in a PCI-E motherboard. It is not ATX 2.x and it only has a single +12v rail at 18a. Not good enough for a 8600GT PCI-E. Save those for AGP machines. If you used one of those for that build in your sig, I'd highly recommend replacing it before you sell it. By the way, it's *NOT* a FSP, it's made by Inwin themselves according to the UL number in that review.

Thinking back to a discussion we had earlier, I *KNEW* there was something about Inwin PSU's that didn't give me a warm fuzzy.

[Masaki 7-11]

I got the PowerMan PSU pulled from working machines with PCIe cards (7950GT on one and 8600GT on the other). I'll try to get to PSUs to upgrade my current PowerMan PSUs (I'll use them if I ever need one for an AGP machine or for testing). Any thoughts on a power supply that is around $60 CAD that can handle a HD4870 (needs two PCIe connectors)? If I can't find any like that, I'll get two Antec 500 Basiqs. Any thoughts on this PSU: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817189005 (This PSU doesn't seem to have any reviews on any hardware sites, the ones that are available are for the older version of this PSU which had lower ratings on the +12V and, 5 molex connecotrs and only one PCIe connector, the PSU in the link has higher +12V ratings (17+16 compared to 15+14), two PCIe connectors and 6 molex connectors.

[jdeb]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 I like the board layout, however some of the parts such as the heatsinks and capacitors are of low quality. I usually keep my computers for a decent period of time and then sell them, so I'd like the parts to last for a decent bit. So far haven't had any problems with MSI motherboards.

i can understand, it has only a three year warranty.on a side note, this company is very under rated. I have had the fewest problems with them and intel. I have built over 200 systems in less than three years. out of those, 24 have been that model and zero comebacks (waiting for the power supply failures from broadway cases). 65 give a take a few foxconns (2 doa, 2 OC issues which were replaced n/c) 20 intels, (3 doa's). Asus well they have.... lets just say are losing my interest. MSI is batting 8 out of 10 last year (100% on your model number). Believe it or not but Biostar 478 boards pm4m900mr are hitting 1000 (18 for 18) but I rarely use them for new builds.

pc chips are frustrating
ecs do not bother anymore
evga has been great for the limited number of builds
tul has my interest these days for budget, very impressed
fic has been surprisingly good.... (extreme budget) 16 out of 17
tyan... the best
super micro... right there with tyan
clea 1 out of one
dfi.... never again
jetway for special stuff
abit dont know
asrock dont know
zotac dont know

foxconn is my choice the majority of the time as of late... maybe i am just used to them and my main supplier is local and has handled the limited problems the best... cant say enough about them... working on a foxconn bloodrage build as we speak, running prime on it now 18 hours in.one pretty board for sure

[glc]

XClios are decent - made by Channel Well.

[tomtoon]

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817171016

that one should do you, I know it is above $60 CAD but you wont find a quality 500w/600w unit for $60

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by tomtoon http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16817171016 that one should do you, I know it is above $60 CAD but you wont find a quality 500w/600w unit for $60

The Coolermaster eXtreme series has pretty low ratings for the +12V rails, does not have PFC and only has one PCIe connector, for a lower price, the Antec Basiq has higher rated +12V rails, and PFC. The XCLIO that I linked to has pretty good ratings for the +12V rails, and 2 PCIe connectors (does not have PFC). How important is PFC in a power supply? I've read that in some cases it is useful and in some cases it hinders the PSU.

[glc]

you wont find a quality 500w/600w unit for $60

Incorrect, sir. The Antec Basiq is a quality unit, as is that XClio. They just aren't FANCY.

[tomtoon]

I meant 550W-600W.

I couldn't find any decent brands. I wasnt on about it being fancy

[glc]

An 8600GT doesn't need that kind of power, tom. 400 quality watts is plenty. Stable rail amperage is more important than watts.

[tomtoon]

For some reason I though he put 9600GT. Silly me.

[glc]

There shouldn't be any difference between a 8600GT and a 9600GT for power requirements.

[tomtoon]

I thought the 9600GT needed at least a 500w PSU

[glc]

Baloney.

The 9600GT's recommended power supply is:

"400W PCI Express-compliant system power supply with a combined 12V current rating of 26A."

That is RECOMMENDED - and it WILL run on less.

The card itself draws about 55 watts (which is 4.5 amps), but it can draw up to 180 watts (15 amps) at full load. If it's drawing that much, it will also be running hotter than heck. The extra wattage and amperage is used by the rest of the system.