help me upgrade my PC

[achn2b]

My system is very old, over ten years, and while I've added memory and updated the OS, I'm about at the limits of its processor. For most things I use it for, it's no big deal, but for viewing video, it's sometimes slow, and rather choppy.

So I don't have the cash to buy a whole new system, so I thought maybe if I upgraded enough stuff to run a new processor, I could just move all my existing stuff into the new machine. I figure all I'll need is a new case, motherboard, processor and memory. My hard drives are IDE, so I'll need a motherboard that will support them. It won't be state of the art, but it'll be miles above what I currently have.

So, here's what I've got so far. Remember, cheap, I mean, inexpensive, is good.

case mid-tower ATX case, 450 watt power supply

motherboard Two IDE connections, AGP port, enough PCI slots for what I need, 2 GB of DDR2 ram.

processor Intel Core 2 Duo

memory 2G DDR2 Kingston

All told, just a bit over $250. Anything that I've overlooked, or any drawbacks to this idea? I thought about just getting a cheap laptop, but I'm intrigued with the idea of building my own home system.

The only question I have is this. The motherboard has a 20 pin connection for power, while Newegg says the PSU in the case has 24 pins. The Logisys website, and the silver version of this case on the Newegg site, say it's a 20+4 PSU.

Anyone know for certain which it is? And if it's 20+4, and I use the 20pin power connection, what do I do with the other 4pin connector?

[Khalil]

Sorry to break it to you but that motherboard has VIA Chipset and you are in for a world of hurting. VIA+Intel is a very bad combo.
The Processor is excellent.
The power supply in that case is very cheap and will more than likely go out and take the rest of your hardware with it.
It don't matter if it has 20+4 or 24 it will fit but you will be using the 20 connectors. My advise is to send this board back if you already bought it and get a motherboard with Intel chipset like this one for the same price http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131369
You also need a real power supply to run that nice Intel CPU, not sure what your buget is but here is one that will work nice for a real low price http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817104901

[achn2b]

I'll take your advice on a new motherboard, but that one only has one IDE slot, and I'll need two. Does have 4gb of memory though, which would be nice.


What power supply makers should I be looking at to get a decent one? And if I get one, then should probably buy the case without one, right?

[Khalil]

I just checked again, I can't find any motherboard with dual IDE and an Intel chipset that will work with that CPU, still though, I don't advise going with a VIA motherboard with an Intel CPU.
This link What Power Supply should I get? How many Watts? Who made it? Guide Inside has all the power supply info you will need.

[achn2b]

How would this work, with an Nvidia chipset?
http://http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130159

And will older PCI cards work in PCI express slots?

[glc]

will older PCI cards work in PCI express slots?

Nope.

I would really advise you to deal with what you have for a little longer till you can afford to do the job right.

[achn2b]

So I've been taking this info under advisement, and am considering putting a little more money into this to make sure it will work. Decided I'll get an inexpensive PCI-E graphics card, eliminating the need for the VIA chipset board with the AGP slot. So right now, I'm looking at this:

Same case and processor.

MSI motherboard Only two PCI slots, but has onboard audio, so I won't need my audio card, onboard lan, so I can connect to my cable modem, only PCI card I'll need to migrate over will be my modem card, so I can still use the computer to fax. Two IDE channels, so I can use both hard drives, my DVD drive, and CD burner.

Inexpensive Asus PCI-E graphics card

Kingston memory 4GB for now

Looking into a different power supply.

Now I could use more info on this, but from what I've been reading, an IDE drive won't boot or install the OS for one of these new motherboards because the board's IDE drivers need to be loaded from a floppy, so I'll need to make a boot disk and another disk with the IDE drivers on it, correct? So I'll be picking up a floppy drive as well, since I think the one in my current system has crapped out.

Am I more on the right track for upgrading my system now?

[glc]

Before you buy anything, please list all your IDE devices by brand and model.

[achn2b]

Toshiba SD-M1202 DVD drive
Plextor Plexwriter PX-W5224A CD burner

Western Digital WD800JB-00JJC0 80 gig hard drive
Western Digital WD1200JB-00EVA0 120 gig hard drive

[not important]

Personally, I'm not that thrilled about using an Intel CPU on a MOBO with Nvidia chipsets.
I'd go with the Asus board and use the saved money to buy an add-on card for the IDE drives, or better yet to buy some SATA optical drives.

[achn2b]

Originally Posted by not important Personally, I'm not that thrilled about using an Intel CPU on a MOBO with Nvidia chipsets. I'd go with the Asus board and use the saved money to buy an add-on card for the IDE drives, or better yet to buy some SATA optical drives.

So, any board, doesn't need IDE slots? Will the system recognize the card and load its drivers, or do I load them via floppy also?

Any suggestions for a good, inexpensive Asus board, and IDE card? I'll head back to Newegg and do some hunting.

How's this look?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131347

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815158084

Both of these for about the same price as the motherboard I had been thinking of.

[glc]

Save your money. Get an Asus P5KPL-CM.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131288

Connect your hard drives to the IDE - which will NOT need a floppy, that uses the old ICH7 controller. Use your existing ram for now. Use the onboard video for now.

Get a SATA DVD burner, both your opticals are old and obsolete:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136152

However, get a decent PSU, this one will be ready for a decent video card later:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817342010

Before anyone complains that they've never heard of it and it must be bad, Topower is a top tier PSU manufacturer.

[achn2b]

Wow, DVD burner is cheap. I know my opticals are old and obsolete, but they do the job for what I need them for. But hadn't realized stuff had gotten so inexpensive, I haven't kept up much on computer technology. If the motherboard works for this, then I can use the savings to pick that up as well.

So what you're saying is the Asus motherboard's use of the ICH7 chipset has support built in for IDE drives? It's an old enough board that they hadn't started doing away with IDE support?

Not sure if the PSU's top mounted fan would work in my case, unless you can mount them upside down? But wouldn't that just push heat into the case?

It's pricier, but I was thinking of going with this one.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371007

And how much performance would I lose with this board just having a PCIe x16 rather than the newer PCIe 2.0? I was thinking of getting this card, since it's cheap., and it would be nice to have a board with PCIe 2.0 if I did.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371007

How does this board look as an alternative?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128388

Don't think I can use my current ram, as it's not DDR, it's old 168 pin SDRAM.

[glc]

The earthwatts is an excellent power supply. That Gigabyte board looks good, it also has ICH7, native IDE support. Try it with the onboard video before you buy a video card. You mentioned in your first post you had 2gb of Kingston DDR2-667, where did that go?

The fan on the Topower is actually on the bottom - the PSU is upside down in the pics, they do that to show you the second fan.

[achn2b]

Originally Posted by glc The earthwatts is an excellent power supply. That Gigabyte board looks good, it also has ICH7, native IDE support. Try it with the onboard video before you buy a video card. You mentioned in your first post you had 2gb of Kingston DDR2-667, where did that go? The fan on the Topower is actually on the bottom - the PSU is upside down in the pics, they do that to show you the second fan.

The memory was one of the things I was looking to buy. Since upgraded to 1066 since the motherboard will handle it.

So, may go with the Topower after all. I might pay the bit more to go with the original choice Asus motherboard after all, because it will handle any future upgrade possibilities a lot better, and buy the SATA DVD burner, using that to install IDE drivers and whatever else I need to.

So, after all this, the final build is looking like this:

Logisys Area 51 steel midtower case

Asus PQ5 SE Plus motherboard

The Topower PSU

Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 Wolfdale 2.8Ghz processor

Asus Radeon HD 4350 graphics card

Kingston HyperX DDR2 1066 ram, 2 sticks for 4gb

Startech IDE adapter card

The LG DVD burner

Total cost just a bit over $410, which isn't too way out of line for me. Nothing I can swing right away, as all my free cash is going toward a new stereo system in my car, but definitely can do over the course of the summer.

[glc]

DDR2-1066 is a total waste of money with that processor. DDR2-800 is more than enough.

I would REALLY recommend you use an ICH7 board and NO IDE card - retire the old opticals, put the IDE hard drives on the ICH and use the SATA burner for everything. If you are going to get a video card anyway, the Asus P5KPL-CM is the best deal, I've built several budget computers with it and it's a solid little board.

[achn2b]

The 1066 was like a buck more than the 800.

Alright, I'll go with the ICH7 Asus and the SATA drive.

So later, when I have money to do even more, SATA hard drives, and eventually, new motherboard with PCI-E 2.0?

[glc]

By the time you really *need* PCI-E 2.0, it's going to be time for another major replacement anyway.

[achn2b]

Originally Posted by glc By the time you really *need* PCI-E 2.0, it's going to be time for another major replacement anyway.

That's probably true. This system as it is will be head and shoulders over what I have, and I've lived with this for years. Probably live with the new one for another four or five years as well.

[achn2b]

Ok, all the parts are here, but I won't have time to get to work on anything till tomorrow, maybe even Wednesday. I might be able to swap out the power supply tonight, but that's about it.

Speaking of the power supply, that Topower is really impressive. Heavy as all heck, with power connections out the wazoo. And a nice shiny platinum color. Makes the unit that came with the case seem like a wind-up toy.

Now if you won't mind a couple of newbie questions:

The fan that came with the processor had a couple grey strips on the bottom of it, I assume it's a thermal paste of some sort. Should I just go ahead and screw it down as is, or should I remove that stuff and use something aftermarket? And what's the best way to remove it if I have to?

Case fans. Is changing intake/exhaust as simple as flipping the fan around, or does reversing the power connection make the fan spin the opposite direction?

This is gonna be fun.

[Alaron]

The thermal paste included with the heatsink/fan unit will be fine. No need to replace it.

Yes, you just turn the fans around. Most of them have a little arrow on the side to show which way the air flows.

[achn2b]

So far so good. Put it together outside of the case as recommended, and it booted. Was a bit worried at first, as I had the power led on the motherboard lit up, but nothing on the monitor, and then remembered that I hadn't turned the monitor on.

Didn't notice if the CPU fan was running, but I'm sure it must have been. Will check. Now it's on to step two.

[achn2b]

Step two is a go. Booted up, CPU fan running, All seems good so far.

Now to get the case connections set up, install the other memory stick, and then move my OS hard drive over from the computer I'm typing on. The rest, I can do later, or tomorrow. I just want to get this up and running, and hopefully use it later tonight.

[achn2b]

And it was all going so well too.

It's all together, and seems to be working fine, but it just can't get Windows to start.

Moved my hard drive over from my old PC, it's recognized as the primary in the BIOS, I made it number one in the boot sequence, and it still won't load. I moved it back to this PC, and it first it couldn't find the OS(had the IDE cable connected in reverse, and then got the same message about how Windows wouldn't start, but then when I chose to start Windows normally, it started up on this PC, although it took a long time, but it just won't load on the new one.

Any ideas what's wrong? Do I need to put my optical drive in and load motherboard drivers or something?

[shadowpr]

You can;'t just move a hard drive over. There will be driver conflicts.

Read this: Repair Reinstallation of Windows XP (using XP CD)

Pay attention to post 3 in particular.

[achn2b]

Excellent. Using the standard IDE bus controllers is what worked. I'm typing this to you from my brand new fast computer. The internet connected in a split second, my home page loaded like that. Gonna be fun getting used to this speed.

Now to go check out some Youtube music videos.