New Budget gaming PC - Need Advice

[Ogredemir]

Alright so the last computer I built was 5 years ago. Obviously a lot has changed. I need to build a new PC at a fairly resonable price, somewhere around $600 Dollars and I want to go AMD. I think this should be doable considering the only thing I need it to really do is browse the net and dominate World of Warcraft. I don't need it to run any newer games or anything like that. My questions are... Do I need to go 64 bit, or should I? Are ROM drives from 5 years ago worth using to save money? (Lite-on 52X CD drive and Lite-on 16x ROM drive) Also, should I use my old version of windows XP home so i don't have to spend money on an operating system? I recently bought a new monitor and I have nice speakers so I only need the box itself. Any parts reccommendations would be appreciated.

[Khalil]

You don't need 64 bit. If you have an OEM version of XP home and planning on retiring the old computer then yes use windows xp, its all you need for wow.
Yes if your old optical (ROM) drives still work you can use them, at least till they fail.
I recommend the new AMD Kuma 7850 CPU and the ATI 4850 video card.
Asus motherboard
4Gigs of DDR2 800
Power Supply

[LeftyAce]

I don't think he'll be able to see more than about 3GB of ram without upgrading to 64 bit operating system. 3GB is plenty at this point, so don't worry about that. Is there an advantage to running multiples of 2? Ram's cheap...if that's the case, go with the full 4.

[glc]

To maintain dual channel operation, you generally need to run matched pairs of ram - and it's so cheap you might as well use a 2x2.

[davids2004]

In my PC I am running 32 bit XP and installed 4 gigs of ram. It recongnized 3.49 of it. My laptop would not recognize all 4 gigs, but it did recognize 3 gigs.

[Ogredemir]

Any other recommendations on Graphics card? The reviews weren't great on that card I would prefer something that doesn't run so hot. I have formerly been an ATI fan, should I stick with ATI or maybe go Nvidia?

[Khalil]

If you want to go by the reviews then take the time to read them all. Recomendations here are based on experience, sadly many of those who write reviews don't know what they are talking about.

[Jdorty]

I would go with Khalil's suggestion. Most likely if people here have used that card and not had problems, it'll be fine. The card that Khalil recommended for me (the ATI 4670) had reviews saying it ran hot and was really noisy. After having it installed for 2 months I can say its not any hotter than my old GPU and its right next to me on my desk right now and I can't hear a thing.

[Ogredemir]

Well, thanks for all the help! New parts are on the way and I only spent 468 bucks, thanks a lot! I went the the GPU you recommended Khalil

[Ogredemir]

Originally Posted by Khalil If you want to go by the reviews then take the time to read them all. Recomendations here are based on experience, sadly many of those who write reviews don't know what they are talking about.

Not that all the people on newegg know what they are talking about but that is expected when you read the reviews. when you present yourself to be so knowledgeable maybe you should do your homework (or let someone know that you didnt), at least give the impression that you might not fully have all the answers. It is my own fault for listening without doing my own homework but just wanted to let you know that the power supply you recommended (which is fully functional) was not adequate for my system with all the recommendations you provided. I'm trying not to be some sarcastic Ahole right now but seriously... don't act like a know-it-all if you don't actually know it all. Asus website PSU calculator requires 500 MINIMUM power for the system you recommended... and thats with merely 1 rom drive , 2 case fans and 1 USB mouse... you recommended 450W MAXIMUM PSU... and now I think it screwed my second board up.

[LeftyAce]

Inadequate power can't permanently screw up a board. Something else is amiss.

EDIT: Corsair's PSU calculator recommends a 400Watt PSU for your setup.

EDIT2: I take it from your frustration that something isn't working? Trust me, I understand that's a crappy feeling. Give us some info and we'll try to get you sorted out.

[Ogredemir]

Originally Posted by LeftyAce Inadequate power can't permanently screw up a board. Something else is amiss. EDIT: Corsair's PSU calculator recommends a 400Watt PSU for your setup. EDIT2: I take it from your frustration that something isn't working? Trust me, I understand that's a crappy feeling. Give us some info and we'll try to get you sorted out.

Well thats good to know. Yes something is amiss. I built an out of the box and everything worked, i got display yay. so i put everything in the box plugged the HDD in and Rom drive and fans, boot up and boom the graphics card fan isn't spinning and i get no display. So i take it back out of the box and try to boot it again as when it originally worked and now it wont work like that either.

EDIT: http://support.asus.com/powersupplyc...language=en-us

450W minimum recommended idk if maybe you forgot to choose the processor type because I did that the first time around.

Motherboard: Desktop

CPU: AMD
AMD Athlon X2
ATHLON X2 7850+ x1

VGA Card: ATI
RADEON HD4850 x1

HDD / DVD Rom: x2

USB: x1

CPU or chassis or power fan: x3 (cpu and 2 case)

[glc]

PSU calculators are almost worthless. Khalil's recommendation was based on his choice of video card, which only requires a 400 watt unit. You have some other problem that has to be addressed. I've run servers with 10 hard drives with a 420 watt power supply.

[Ogredemir]

Originally Posted by glc PSU calculators are almost worthless. Khalil's recommendation was based on his choice of video card, which only requires a 400 watt unit. You have some other problem that has to be addressed. I've run servers with 10 hard drives with a 420 watt power supply.

Alright well then I apologize to you Khalil

Im just so sad same exact problem as I had last time. When I power down the graphics card gives 1 rotation and then stops. Is it possible newegg sent me the same exact board that I RMA'd? because the blue tab on the end of the PCI slot doesnt click when you plug the card in (i know that doesnt matter its just for stability) but the board I RMA'd was the same way. IDK im just desperate to blame someone and its prob either just me or the hardware

[LeftyAce]

Corsair is telling me 400 watts http://www.corsair.com/psufinder/default.aspx

Seems like GLC is right. Regardless, your problem isn't due to insufficient power.

Did you ever run it out of the case with all the drives attached?

Are you sure you've got all the auxilliary power connections plugged in? (vid card, motherboard next to the CPU, main power). I know it's a silly question, but I've done it before

Now that you're out of the case, with just video, 1 stick of ram, no harddrives or anything connected, you say the video card fan doesn't spin? Does the CPU fan? Or the powersupply fan? Any beeps? You're doing this on a non-conductive surface, right? (Cardboard, wood, something like that).

[LeftyAce]

The tab not clicking is a motherboard/card-type thing. Mine doesn't do it either, and that's with 3 different models of cards over time (so they're definitely not sending me the same one :-P )

[Ogredemir]

Originally Posted by LeftyAce Corsair is telling me 400 watts http://www.corsair.com/psufinder/default.aspx Seems like GLC is right. Regardless, your problem isn't due to insufficient power. Did you ever run it out of the case with all the drives attached? Are you sure you've got all the auxilliary power connections plugged in? (vid card, motherboard next to the CPU, main power). I know it's a silly question, but I've done it before Now that you're out of the case, with just video, 1 stick of ram, no harddrives or anything connected, you say the video card fan doesn't spin? Does the CPU fan? Or the powersupply fan? Any beeps? You're doing this on a non-conductive surface, right? (Cardboard, wood, something like that).

Yeah I did it on the Motherboard Box (cardboard) and yes just video card, stick of ram and cpu. The CPU fan and the PSU fan both spin. but the graphics card fan spun and i got video the first time out of the box. then when I hooked everything up in the case it didnt work. so i took it back out and did it the same way as when it worked, but got no video. PSU and CPU fans worked both times. I checked all the power connectors multiple times they were in

[LeftyAce]

so now your graphics card fan isn't spinning? Try re-seating the gfx card.... I'm more than a little puzzled, I'll admit. Did the graphics card come with an adapter to connect a psu Molex connector to the card's PCI-Express power socket?

[Ogredemir]

Does anyone have ventrilo maybe want to try and talk me through something?

[Ogredemir]

Originally Posted by LeftyAce so now your graphics card fan isn't spinning? Try re-seating the gfx card.... I'm more than a little puzzled, I'll admit. Did the graphics card come with an adapter to connect a psu Molex connector to the card's PCI-Express power socket?

yes so now after originally working out of the box and then not working inside the box it now doesnt work outside of the box either. I reseated it twice with nothing. the graphics card did come with an adapter to change 2xmolex into PCIe connector. to be honest i didnt try using the adapter this time as I did last time because since it worked the first time it would make no sense to be the PSU's PCIe cable, but i will go try it now

[Ogredemir]

The adapter didn't work and I also tried it in the bottom PCIe slot and got nothing there either. a grown man is about to cry

[LeftyAce]

you got a ventrilo server? I'm running out of ideas, but that _would_ speed up the brainstorming process.

[Ogredemir]

dallas13.nationvoice.com
port = 3995
PW = bubbles

my username is Meteorain

[Ogredemir]

So this is weird and mind boggling.... I cleared the CMOS by taking out the battery and setting the jumper to clear and waited 5 minutes. then I put them back to normal and booted up, I got video for about 30 seconds and then boom my video went out. so im like ***.. I then cleared CMOS again the same way and tried to boot up but got nothing... im so confused

[glc]

Okay.............I just did some research. To be totally safe, you need a certified power supply. That FSP isn't certified, it was recommended as a good budget power supply without checking for certification. I also found out your card needs 450 watts, and that FSP is really only a 400 even though it's labeled as a 450. The PSU MAY NOT BE the problem, but it's marginal on paper. Here's the cheapest certified PSU that I'd trust:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371015

Sorry about the hassle. I'd RMA your power supply - or keep it for a spare or a lesser build - and get that Antec. If that doesn't fix it, RMA the video card, it's defective.

ATI Certified power supplies:

http://game.amd.com/us-en/crossfire_...ied.aspx?cat=3

Next to each one click Details to see how many cards it supports, you only need it to support 1.

EDIT:

To Khalil, if you are still following this thread - and anyone else who routinely recommends power supplies for builds here - I think it would be wise from here on out to only recommend certified power supplies. Better safe than sorry, and it will cover your butts. If the person doesn't want to spend that kind of money, make sure you tell them if they choose an uncertified unit, they are on their own. The ATI site certifies for single and multiple cards, but the Nvidia site (slizone.com) only certifies for multiples. For single Nvidias, before recommending, research the power requirements - both watts and +12v rail requirements - and choose units from quality manufacturers.

Personally, I'm only comfortable with Antec, FSP, Seasonic, and Corsair right now. Sure, there are others that I'm sure I've missed, but those 4 should be solid across the board.

[Khalil]

Sounds to me something shorted out during the intial build. I have no problems building one on Monday and posting video proof that this PSU is more than good enough for that hardware.
That FSP I recommended is more than good enough for the rig I suggested, I have used it with 4870s and it works just fine. Not sure what is going on with the OP. Most certified PSUs are not budget so it is a catch 22, How do we recommend a budget PSU? Where do we start in price? We keep getting posting who want to build super gaming machines for $500. I am just trying to help here. Sorry!

[glc]

We keep getting posting who want to build super gaming machines for $500.

That *IS* a problem - something has to give.

That FSP I recommended is more than good enough for the rig I suggested, I have used it with 4870s and it works just fine.

I certainly believe you.

[Ogredemir]

Originally Posted by Khalil Sounds to me something shorted out during the intial build. I have no problems building one on Monday and posting video proof that this PSU is more than good enough for that hardware. That FSP I recommended is more than good enough for the rig I suggested, I have used it with 4870s and it works just fine. Not sure what is going on with the OP. Most certified PSUs are not budget so it is a catch 22, How do we recommend a budget PSU? Where do we start in price? We keep getting posting who want to build super gaming machines for $500. I am just trying to help here. Sorry!

All in all im not mad at you Khalil sry for last nights post, i know you are only trying to help, But lets be fair here. I never said I wanted a super gaming computer. my initial post was budget gaming build, didn't need to do too much other than dominate WOW which isn't hard with todays cards, and i also said my budget was around 600 bucks, and with the recommended build I had room for a more sufficient PSU but thats whatever at this point. Again I should have paid attention to the PSU myself and did some homework I was just too eager to get something up and running. Anyways may not even be the PSU don't know yet. gonna take everything up town and see if the guy can run some tests. Thanks for the help guys ill get back to you later today hopefully he figures this out

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by Ogredemir All in all im not mad at you Khalil sry for last nights post, i know you are only trying to help, But lets be fair here. I never said I wanted a super gaming computer. my initial post was budget gaming build, didn't need to do too much other than dominate WOW which isn't hard with todays cards, and i also said my budget was around 600 bucks, and with the recommended build I had room for a more sufficient PSU but thats whatever at this point. Again I should have paid attention to the PSU myself and did some homework I was just too eager to get something up and running. Anyways may not even be the PSU don't know yet. gonna take everything up town and see if the guy can run some tests. Thanks for the help guys ill get back to you later today hopefully he figures this out

I am 99.999% sure it is not the power supply however no manufacturer can be flawless, my comment about the super gaming machines was not about you. However you were looking to stay at a certain budget. It is well known on this forum that I only recommend hardware I have used extensively.

[LeftyAce]

Khalil, you suggest that something shorted out during the initial build....but we were able to get it to boot again by clearing the bios (once...the second time it didn't work). Are you (and glc, I guess) sure it isn't a motherboard problem at this point?

I guess let's see what Ogredemir learns by taking it to a shop and testing all the pieces.