Budget Box

[Blue Flux Blazer]

This is a great forum. I've learned a lot in a short amount of time.

First build, just trying to keep it basic, but at the same time, something I'll like for a long time and be able to upgrade later. Skip down over the long winded story for the parts list.

I originally started shooting for a 250 - 275 budget, but am trying to err on the side of quality. Hopefully I did. I ended up at 365.96 (396.15 w/ CA tax ). How do these parts look for the price and compatibility?

This is replacing a Dell Dimension 2350 w/ Celeron 2.2 I bought in 2003, so you can tell I'm not a gamer or anything. I'll still use the same 19" CRT it came with, and I have a new mouse and keyboard. Eventually I'll get a LCD monitor. I was thinking about building my own PC in 2003, but everybody was saying it's near impossible and a nightmare, so I bought the Dell. A while ago, I really enjoyed just getting inside the Dell to max out the RAM, so I'm going to go for building my own PC now.

Later, I may want to try to get a card to capture over the airwaves TV for a DVR. I need to figure that out still. I don't have cable, and we use VCR tapes still, so it would be interesting to check out the DVR thing. The DVR is pretty cool at my in-laws.

Here is my list:

cpu Athlon II X2 245 Regor 2.9GHz

mobo ASUS M4A785-M

case & psu Antec NSK 4480B II with EarthWatts 380W Power Supply

hdd WD Caviar Green 500GB

odd Plextor PX-880SA

RAM G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ


TIA,

Cory

[Blue Flux Blazer]

Originally Posted by Blue Flux Blazer cpu Athlon II X2 245 Regor 2.9GHz mobo ASUS M4A785-M case & psu Antec NSK 4480B II with EarthWatts 380W Power Supply hdd WD Caviar Green 500GB odd Plextor PX-880SA RAM G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ

To be concise, anybody see any reason these parts won't work together? Do you look at this list and think "NOOOOO"? Do they seem like they go together to make a balanced, stable, basic system? This is my first attempt at this, so any help would be appreciated. I'm hoping to pull the trigger on this, since the case & psu combo discount expires today. Thanks.

[Masaki 7-11]

All your parts are compatible, looks like a good build. You can save a few bucks by going with a Lite-On drive since the quality is pretty much the same. Do you have an OS? If not you'll need to either buy a copy of windows, or you can try a linux distribution (ubuntu is pretty good and is free). You'll need a TV tuner to get (and save) TV on your computer, you can get a basic one pretty inexpensively.

[barch 88]

Like Masaki said, it all looks good. You'll need a operating system though. You could probably go with 2GB of RAM instead of 4 to save some cash too.

[Blue Flux Blazer]

Thank you very much for the replies! I ordered everything up last night, including the Plextor burner just to keep everything free shipping. I slightly changed hard drive selection when I noticed I could get the 750 GB version of the same HDD instead of 500 GB for 5 bucks more.

I am planning on using Ubuntu for an OS. I've been trying out Xubuntu for a few weeks now on this old Dell, and it seems good. If a Linux distro doesn't work out, then I'll figure out a version of Windows, either XP or 7.

I'm looking forward to the build - I'll be sure to follow the sticky guidelines, including the out of box build. Thanks again!

[Khalil]

Love Ubuntu, if you are willing to learn how it all works it is a far better OS than anything M$ has to offer!

[Blue Flux Blazer]

My first build is all done, and everything is running fine, I barely hear it. I'm really pleased with how it came out. I lost count how many times I read the motherboard manual and every other manual, and all the instructions on this site. I was very methodical to make sure I got it right.

The heat sink slid around a bit clamping it to the CPU. I checked the BIOS and it showed the CPU temp at 39 - 40 C, is that normal?

The BIOS showed all 4 GB of RAM, but only like 3.9 available? Ubuntu only shows 3.2 GB, but I know MS does the same thing so I'm not surprised about the OS, just the RAM available to the BIOS. The Asus manual and website make it very confusing about where to place both sticks of RAM for the dual channel. It makes it seem like channel A is the first blue slot and the first black slot, and channel B the second corresponding slots. But then I think I read that the dual channel is the same colored slots. I ended up putting them both in the blue slots. Any ideas which slots to put them in?

The biggest hurdle was getting the back I/O shield to not hang up on the tabs as the motherboard got positioned. I gave up on getting it to look correct and flush, but I bent an extra guiding angle on the tabs to get them to fit between the motherboard ports, and I didn't have any tabs in any jacks where they were not supposed to go. It seemed like it should have been a lot easier to complete that step. I would think that for the quality Asus is known for, the I/O shield plate would have been made so it would be more simple to deal with. Or likely, it was my inexperience.

I'll save making the PC into a DVR for another day. This thing is great, thanks for the help.

[glc]

Good temps. The onboard video uses some system ram. 2 blues is correct. All manufacturers have the same I/O shield issues.

[systempat]

Congratulations on the successful first build!! You did good! Part of the reason for your success is that you read the MB manual and other material carefully BEFORE you started connecting the parts. The manuals from the better brands usually do a good job of explaining where things go and most situations.
Temps of 39-40C are good. If that's an idle or light load temp, then if running something demanding like a 3D game or video rendering or CPU benchmark will warm it up some. If it only gets to 50c that will be OK. If it goes higher than that a solution like adding more ventilation to the case might be needed. But that Athlon II is a rather low-power chip.

[Blue Flux Blazer]

I went back in the BIOS and the idle temps are still 39 - 41 C. But what I really wanted to double check was exactly how much RAM the onboard video is using. I have 4096 MB of RAM and 3840 MB available. After doing the math, I realized that the reason I was so surprised is that comes out to 256 MB of RAM - which is the entire amount of RAM that came with my 2003 computer this new one just replaced! LOL

Thanks again everyone.

[glc]

I vividly remember having hard drives smaller than that.

[Blue Flux Blazer]

I guess I was too hasty in my asessment of my quiet new build. Now that the weather is cooler, the ceiling fan above me is off, and I hear different noises from my hard drive. When I first heard the noises, I thought there was a road grinder/demo project in the distance, or a neighbor had a rock tumbler, or something of the sort.

I hear two HDD sounds: one is the easily recognizable, higher buzz (kind of universal, right?), and the other is the rock tumbler sound described, which is getting really annoying. Sorry, it's hard describing sounds.

I don't know much about hard drives, but I'm guessing the rumbling sound is from the platters rapidly starting and stopping? Is this normal? Maybe the case is amplifying it, also? The case had the rubber ring washers where the screws went through. However, the drive rests where there are metal arches supporting the underside of the drive. Any recommendations what to do?

The drive is a caviar green 750 GB, and case is Antec NSK 4480B II

I'm wondering if a caviar blue or even black would have been quieter, even though Western Digital lists the green as the lowest average of the black, blue, and green. Maybe the black or blue doesn't rumble like this?

Thanks,

Cory

[Masaki 7-11]

I have a 1TB WD Green running as an external drive and it makes almost no noise/vibration. Other than the light on at the front of it, I can't tell if it's running or not. Check to make sure that it is actually the hard drive; it if is, try running some diagnostics on the drive to see if it is defective.

[systempat]

The noise you describe does not 'sound' like a hard drive. Also platters do not start and stop, they just spin at the stated RPM. Check with the case open, my bet is that it's a fan. The 120 fans turn slow enough to be relatively low-pitched. If you have one making a bearing noise, then it could be replaced.

But really, how loud is it?

[Blue Flux Blazer]

I turned on my ceiling fan again, and I couldn't hear it, so it's not too loud. But I hear it just fine when there is no background noise. I guess it's more of a clunk, clunk-clunk. I eliminated any background noise, and then ran it with the cover off the case. I put my hand on the hard drive, and it was just barely warm, mostly cool. With my hand on the drive, I could feel the clunk as it coincided with the sound, so it definitely is the drive. I think I ran a successful SMART diagnostic (linux newbie, so hopefully I did it right). I got a report that said no errors and everything was fine. Also, it seems to me that other than the noise, the hard drive performance is completely normal and not performance hindered at all.

After reading a bit more, I'm starting to wonder if it is the heads parking off the disk (not sure what that means-I'm picturing them swinging wildly off the disc and beating themselves to death), do they do that? Could that cause the clunking noise? I saw something about AAM and not enabled/working with linux? Is there a way I could check/enable the AAM in Ubuntu?

The reason I asked about the platters stopping and starting is because I know the Caviar Green series has the variable speed for low power and noise, but I guess it doesn't start and stop it just goes from 5400 (or 5900?) to 7200 on a variable speed, just not 0 -7200, right?

[systempat]

Describing it as a clunk noise sounds more like what a drive does. The rest of your system must be pretty quiet for you to notice it. One thing to check is if the drive is mounted such that it magnifies the noise. Depending on the case, it's either mounted with small machine screws ( 2 per side ) or else the screwless mounts that clip in. If you can wiggle the drive a bit with just light hand pressure and hear any vibration, then it's too loose. And it would need to be tightened up. Sometimes people use grommets or O-ring on the screws to isolate the drives. Or else a few strips of a spongy material to fill in the gaps or minimize metal-to-metal contact, such as foam tape or even electrical tape.
In my newest case, the hard drive mounts in a removable cage. And I was hearing too much noise from it. The drive was pretty tight on the mounting, but the removable cage had wiggle room and was vibrating against the case. Because of the way the cage slid into place, the best way that I found was to use electrical tape to build up strips a couple of layers thick. The cage is now nicely bedded in place, and the noise from the drive reduced quite a bit. Like about 2/3rds.

About the hard disk. The read/write heads are mounted on an arm that pivots. The swing allows it to reach all the tracks on the platter and also a bit off to one side of the platter. Visualize a turntable for vinyl records with the arm for the needle, except there is a motor to move that arm. The motor - called a stepping motor - moves the heads from one point to another, and is quite precise. It moves it quite abruptly and stops quickly which gives the fast access speed that we all want. This causes a bit of a shudder that passes back into the drive chassis as vibration. When the head is parked it moves to the position that is just off the disk. If the drive is dropped ( like in a laptop, I hope people are not dropping their tower cases), the read/write head cannot 'crash' into the platter.
The read/write heads are never supposed to touch the platter surfaces but float a very small distance from those surfaces. The spinning of the platters should never stop unless the drive is powered down. I'm not familiar with the Cav green series and the variable speed but my first guess is they have 2 speeds and would 'idle' along at the 5400 speed but then kick up to 7200 when getting enough read/write requests.

[Blue Flux Blazer]

Systempat,

Thanks for your post! It really helped to clear things up with that explanation.
My system is indeed quiet, and now after your post and some more research I think my hard drive noise is exactly the shudder vibration of the head movement you detailed.
I verified that the drive is tight with no vibration. It is attached by 4 machine screws with rubber O-rings to help isolate noise. I like the foam or electrical tape idea. I have 4 metal-to-HDD contact areas under the drive where I could place those materials.
Western Digital doesn't give out a whole lot of Caviar Green details, but from what I can tell from more searching, the disk never stops spinning like you said, and it appears that it just stays at one constant RPM. I think the RPM is set at the factory and can be anywhere from 5400 to 7200. I'm guessing that they set it at what goes best with the particular stepping motor and spindle motor for the best performance and energy efficiency. I think the real deal is that most of them are set at 5400, and their marketing department doesn't want to advertise that fact, even though that is where most of the wattage reductions come from. It also seems to me that there are lots of quiet Caviar Green drives, but there are others out there describing clicking or clunking noisy drives like I have. One suggestion was that each individual unit can receive different factory settings such as Automatic Acoustic Management, Advanced Power Management, and maybe other settings.
Thanks again, I'm off to find my electrical tape.