Htpc

[WizDawg]

Can I get a little help puting one together. I have searched the forums and nothing current really matches what I am looking to do. Even on the internet I have found many guides, but anything 6 months or older is pretty much obsolete at this time.

First off, unlike many others post on this board, I will not be using this for multipurposes. It will be an extra PC sitting in my living room below my TV. It will only be used as HTPC. Since it is a HTPC in my living room I am concerned about heat which will lead to more fan noise. I want to keep this as quiet as possible. From my couch, 10 feet away, I don't want to hear anything at all.

The componets I choose need to be able to run Windows 7 since I will be using Media Center. I want to be able to play back bluray. I want to keep this as energy efficient as possible, only buying components that will get the job done flawlessly and not create any additional heat or noise.

Please help me get started by pointing me in the right direction for a motherboard, case, and processor. I read a lot of older post about people using a 45W AMD CPUs, but it seems like they either no longer make them or have really cut back in their line up.

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by WizDawg Can I get a little help puting one together. I have searched the forums and nothing current really matches what I am looking to do. Even on the internet I have found many guides, but anything 6 months or older is pretty much obsolete at this time. First off, unlike many others post on this board, I will not be using this for multipurposes. It will be an extra PC sitting in my living room below my TV. It will only be used as HTPC. Since it is a HTPC in my living room I am concerned about heat which will lead to more fan noise. I want to keep this as quiet as possible. From my couch, 10 feet away, I don't want to hear anything at all. The componets I choose need to be able to run Windows 7 since I will be using Media Center. I want to be able to play back bluray. I want to keep this as energy efficient as possible, only buying components that will get the job done flawlessly and not create any additional heat or noise. Please help me get started by pointing me in the right direction for a motherboard, case, and processor. I read a lot of older post about people using a 45W AMD CPUs, but it seems like they either no longer make them or have really cut back in their line up.

What kind of budget do you have? Also do you just need the computer, or do you also need things like OS, keyboard, mouse, etc.

What kind of use will the computer have (blu-ray, tv recording, internet/email, gaming, etc), and what other components will be connected with the computer (receiver, cable, antenna, satelite, game console, tv, etc.).

Regarding AMD 45W processors, they still have one available (Sempron Single Core), however they are going to be releasing some dual core and higher processors in the next few months with 45W rating.

Until then you can use a 65W processor (which runs pretty cool) and combine it with a good, quiet aftermarket cooler like the Arctic Cooling Freezer 64.

Graphics wise, a 785G based AM3 motherboard would work best as the HD4200 can easily handle blu-ray and other 1080p videos and has HDMI built-in, thus reducing the amount of components producing heat and saving money on a new graphics card.

[WizDawg]

I just need help on the computer. I have the OS. I need a keyboard and mouse, but I have ones in mind already. I dont really have a budget. I think the fact that it only needs to be as powerfull to run a HTPC is going to put me into the mid range for hardware. I just want the hardware to match the needs.

The computer will be for blu-ray playback and tv watching/recording. I also have a bunch of DVDs that I have already ripped that I want to be able to play from the hard drive, as well as a big MP3 collection. The tv viewing, recording, and ripped DVD viewing will be done though Windows Media Center. Absolutly no gaming at all.

An over the air antenna will be connected to the PCs tuner card. The pre-outs on the soundcard (whether integrated or not) will be connected to a reciever. And of course a TV will be connected via HDMI, DVI, or VGA. I would like to have all 3 options if possible as I dont know what my future TV will have.

I dont think I want that 45W single core. Maybe I can wait for the new dual cores coming out. And actually I dont neccesarily need a 45W, I just assumed they will run cooling and quieter than a 65W. I also assumed whatever 45W CPUs they make, would be plently powerfull enough to run what I am trying to build.

[Masaki 7-11]

Something like this should work for what you want:


Antec New Solution NSK2480 Black/Silver 0.8mm cold-rolled steel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 380W Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129034
$99.89

Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136317
$84.99

ASUS M4A785TD-M EVO AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131406
$94.99

Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1850 MC Board Only - White Box (Updated version of 1800 WB) 1129 PCI-Express x1 Interface
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16815116044
$91.99

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-10600CL9D-4GBPK
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231179
$84.99

AMD Athlon II X2 245 Regor 2.9GHz Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADX245OCGQBOX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103687
$66.00

ZALMAN CNPS7700-ALCU 120mm 2 Ball CPU Cooling Fan
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118114
$24.99

LITE-ON Black 4X Blu-ray Reader SATA Model iHOS104-06
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106325
$59.99

Subtotal: $607.83

[glc]

The whole series of Intel processors with the Wolfdale core are 65w processors too. Intel also has a 35w single core Celeron, but I think that would be too weak, and a dual core Atom on a mini-ITX board would probably be more powerful. When you start talking one of those, the integrated graphics are pretty weak and you are limited by the lack of expansion slots..

[WizDawg]

In general, do the intel 65W or AMD 65W run cooler/quieter? And is it true that the AMD boards have better onboard video for a HTPC?

Masaki 7-11,
You think I need 4GB of RAM in a HTPC?

glc,
I do like the atoms and didn't know about the weak onboard video, thanks. But the reason I am not considering them is because of the lack of expansion slots.

[glc]

I won't build anything with less than 4gb of ram these days, especially with onboard video.

Yes, the new AMD boards have excellent onboard video. However, for a HTPC, the latest Intel 4500 onboard video will get the job done.

[WizDawg]

Originally Posted by glc I won't build anything with less than 4gb of ram these days, especially with onboard video. Yes, the new AMD boards have excellent onboard video. However, for a HTPC, the latest Intel 4500 onboard video will get the job done.

Do you think the 380 watt power supply included with that case is sufficient for these components? I know my desktop is old, but the hardware specs for this HTPC is not far off from my main dekstop which has a 450 or maybe even 500W PSU.

Can that case be had in black? If not, can someone post some suggestions of black cases? Thanks.

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by WizDawg Do you think the 380 watt power supply included with that case is sufficient for these components? I know my desktop is old, but the hardware specs for this HTPC is not far off from my main dekstop which has a 450 or maybe even 500W PSU. Can that case be had in black? If not, can someone post some suggestions of black cases? Thanks.

380W should be more than enough for the parts I posted above, it will give you a decent bit of headroom to add a graphics card and/or more hard drives later on. Regarding the case, there are a good amount of variations that are black, however most of them are either sold out or not available at newegg. This is probably the best option available from Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811108059 (but it will limit you to only the onboard graphics as you can't upgrade the PSU and the PSU won't give you too much headroom), otherwise if you can get the case elsewhere, something like this would work: http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Produc...C=1345&ID=1424

[WizDawg]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 380W should be more than enough for the parts I posted above, it will give you a decent bit of headroom to add a graphics card and/or more hard drives later on. Regarding the case, there are a good amount of variations that are black, however most of them are either sold out or not available at newegg. This is probably the best option available from Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811108059 (but it will limit you to only the onboard graphics as you can't upgrade the PSU and the PSU won't give you too much headroom), otherwise if you can get the case elsewhere, something like this would work: http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Produc...C=1345&ID=1424

Thanks. I probably wont add more than a single 1TB or 1.5TB drive to the HTPC. That HD will store my DVD rips (and everything else) for now, but eventually I will add a media sever in another room to hold all my DVD movies, videos, and pictures. The HD in the HTPC will be just for the DVR then.

[WizDawg]

If Im looking at AMD, should I only be looking at the 785G for a HTPC?

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by WizDawg If Im looking at AMD, should I only be looking at the 785G for a HTPC?

In my opinion that's the best option for an AMD HTPC, however there are other options. Here are the other chipsets that will work:

760G - This is the value version of the 780G and has reduced performance (uses the HD3100 chip) and usually cannot be found with HDMI included.

780G - This is the precursor to the 785G chipset and only works with DDR2 ram (at least from what I've seen), the performance is higher than the 760G chipset (uses the HD3200) and is usually found with HDMI.

790GX - This is the higher-end integrated graphics chipset (HD3300) which is faster than the 780G, has support for both DDR2 and DDR3 (depending on the motherboard), can be found in both ATX and microATX and usually has HDMI.

The 785G has improved performance and energy consumption compared to the 780G (has the HD4200 chipset), is better for videos due to the updated UVD2 engine (the chipsets above have the original UVD engine) and support DX10.1 whereas the chipsets above only support DX10. The 785G chipset only supports DDR3 though.

Regardless of chipset, you can get better integrated performance if the motherboard has Sideport memory installed (Sideport memory is discrete memory soldered onto the motherboard to be used by the integrated graphics).

[WizDawg]

Why does it seem only the Asus M4A785 is marketed towards HTPCs? Isn't, for example, this 785G Gigabit just as capable?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128397

What would make one 785G board better than another for a HTPC. From what I can tell, they all have DVI, HDMI, VGA, and 5.1 sound.

Thanks.

[WizDawg]

Masaki 7-11,

One additional question. I was reading on another forum a post called "current king of htpc motherboards". This was posted last day of September 2009. Is this information still current or has it been outdated in the past month? They seem to lean towards the Nvidia 8200/8300 or 9300/9400. Below are some of the posts:

For AMD chips i'd get a Nvidia 8200/8300 chipset, for Intel a 9300/9400 chipset.

Anything with an Nvidia 8200/8300 IGP.

Unfortunately the 780/785/790gx does not qualify for the latest greatest htpc motherboard, ever since the 8200/8300 and 9200/9300 based boards have been released that is.
For 2.0 audio over hdmi it's fine of course and perhaps downsampled analog 5.1, but if you want multichannel digital 5.1 or 7.1 over the hdmi cable then you'd need one of the nvidia boards mentioned.
(In regards to Intel boards) It's the Nvidia 9200 or 9300 based motherboard you're looking for, but not because of a specific realtek chip, but simply because it has the most htpc + blu-ray related features onboard (including audio).

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by WizDawg Masaki 7-11, One additional question. I was reading on another forum a post called "current king of htpc motherboards". This was posted last day of September 2009. Is this information still current or has it been outdated in the past month? They seem to lean towards the Nvidia 8200/8300 or 9300/9400. Below are some of the posts: For AMD chips i'd get a Nvidia 8200/8300 chipset, for Intel a 9300/9400 chipset. Anything with an Nvidia 8200/8300 IGP. Unfortunately the 780/785/790gx does not qualify for the latest greatest htpc motherboard, ever since the 8200/8300 and 9200/9300 based boards have been released that is. For 2.0 audio over hdmi it's fine of course and perhaps downsampled analog 5.1, but if you want multichannel digital 5.1 or 7.1 over the hdmi cable then you'd need one of the nvidia boards mentioned. (In regards to Intel boards) It's the Nvidia 9200 or 9300 based motherboard you're looking for, but not because of a specific realtek chip, but simply because it has the most htpc + blu-ray related features onboard (including audio).

Regarding the motherboard, Asus isn't the only company that makes good motherboard (for HTPC or otherwise), Gigabyte also makes some very good motherboards and if you prefer the look/functionality of the Gigabyte over Asus, go for it.

Regarding the IGP, Nvidia has poorer video decoding, and has higher heat output. The part about audio over HDMI may or may not be true, but you said you will be running audio through a receiver first, so it won't matter to you. What you will probably need is optical out for audio (which both the Asus and Gigabyte motherboards have) since that offers the best audio and most receivers have optical in ports to allow such a connection.

[WizDawg]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 Regarding the motherboard, Asus isn't the only company that makes good motherboard (for HTPC or otherwise), Gigabyte also makes some very good motherboards and if you prefer the look/functionality of the Gigabyte over Asus, go for it. Regarding the IGP, Nvidia has poorer video decoding, and has higher heat output. The part about audio over HDMI may or may not be true, but you said you will be running audio through a receiver first, so it won't matter to you. What you will probably need is optical out for audio (which both the Asus and Gigabyte motherboards have) since that offers the best audio and most receivers have optical in ports to allow such a connection.

All audio channels are set though that optical out to the receiver? Does that include the subwoofer?

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by WizDawg All audio channels are set though that optical out to the receiver? Does that include the subwoofer?

7.1 is supported through the optical out (the .1 means subwoofer), here is a good description of the Realtek sound card (on the gigabyte board): http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/p...n=4&ProdID=173.

Here is a good description of the VIA sound card in the Asus board: http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/au...1708/index.jsp

Also regarding the motherboard, the one you linked to doesn't have sideport memory like the asus one I linked to. Here is an almost identical gigabyte motherboard with sideport memory: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128399

[WizDawg]

CPU COOLER
That CPU cooler fits the AM3 socket, right? The reason I ask is because it doesn't mention it on Newegg of the manufactures website. Only AMD sockets listed are 754, 939, and 940. Is the AM3 one of those?


MEMORY
A couple question about the memory.
1) I have picked out the wrong Cas Latency in the past and was corrected by a member on this board. It may have even been glc. How do you know which Cas Latency to get. I see the one you suggested to me was 9.

2) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145260
Would this be okay to use too? Its a few bucks less and has slightly better newegg rating. I have also had good luck with Corsair in the past. Its DDR3 1600 instead of DDR3 1333. Will that still be okay? Or is there a reason I should go with the G.Skill you suggested in post # 4?

Thanks so much

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by WizDawg That CPU cooler fits the AM3 socket, right? The reason I ask is because it doesn't mention it on Newegg of the manufactures website. Only AMD sockets listed are 754, 939, and 940. Is the AM3 one of those?

Sorry, I linked to the wrong version of the cooler; meant to link to this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118036 which is AM3 socket compatible. I think even with the stock cooler you will get pretty good cooling and pretty low noise, especially if not using it at 100%. Have you decided on a case yet? If you are looking at a low profile case, you will need low profile pci cards.

[WizDawg]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 Sorry, I linked to the wrong version of the cooler; meant to link to this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835118036 which is AM3 socket compatible. I think even with the stock cooler you will get pretty good cooling and pretty low noise, especially if not using it at 100%. Have you decided on a case yet? If you are looking at a low profile case, you will need low profile pci cards.

Masaki 7-11,

I was in the middle of updating my post when you replied to it. Can you please comment on the newly added part about the memory?

[WizDawg]

I really like the Antec Fusion Remote, but almost everyone complains about how bright and of low quality the LCD display is. I like the one you originally posed, but I really would like for the front to be metal and not plastic. I'm also not sure how it will look once loaded with an optical drive since it does not hide behind any sory of door.

Do you have any other suggestions for a silver case that is quiet and reasonably priced?

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by WizDawg Masaki 7-11, I was in the middle of updating my post when you replied to it. Can you please comment on the newly added part about the memory?

Some intel chipsets before were having trouble with CAS latency of 4; you can use pretty much any type of DDR3 memory with AM3 processors, however anything faster than DDR3-1333 won't have any benefit. The one you linked to above is also fine.

Regarding case, something like this should work: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811163066
With this power supply: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371005

[WizDawg]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 Some intel chipsets before were having trouble with CAS latency of 4; you can use pretty much any type of DDR3 memory with AM3 processors, however anything faster than DDR3-1333 won't have any benefit. The one you linked to above is also fine. Regarding case, something like this should work: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811163066 With this power supply: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371005

Anything faster than DDR3-1333 will have no benefit, but it will also have no drawbacks, right? Will it use more power therefore create more heat?

Bought 2 things so far. I ordered the Asus board you recommended, but got the 2250 tuner card instead of the 1850. I also got the media center kit because it had free shipping and when compared to the regular verions plus shipping it was only like 3 bucks more. I'll take the remote for $3 even if I don't use it.

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by WizDawg Anything faster than DDR3-1333 will have no benefit, but it will also have no drawbacks, right? Will it use more power therefore create more heat? Bought 2 things so far. I ordered the Asus board you recommended, but got the 2250 tuner card instead of the 1850. I also got the media center kit because it had free shipping and when compared to the regular verions plus shipping it was only like 3 bucks more. I'll take the remote for $3 even if I don't use it.

Anything higher than DDR3-1333 won't have any drawbacks (except for very high speed ram as it may not be supported). Ideally the ram should be rated for 1.65V or lower (preferably rated for 1.5V so that the power consumption/heat will be minimal). Let us know how the tuner works.

[WizDawg]

Whats the story with the 45 watt dual cores from AMD? I read some things about a 235e. It looks like its suppose to be available, but I dont see it on newegg. What else is in this new 45 watt lineup? Would the 235e be the one to look at? Are they going to be AM3 sockets and be compatible with the motherboard I just bought?

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by WizDawg Whats the story with the 45 watt dual cores from AMD? I read some things about a 235e. It looks like its suppose to be available, but I dont see it on newegg. What else is in this new 45 watt lineup? Would the 235e be the one to look at? Are they going to be AM3 sockets and be compatible with the motherboard I just bought?

There are a number of processors that are out with a 45W rating (although availability seems limited right now and newegg doesn't have them in stock). All the 45W processors are compatible with your motherboard and all are AM3. AMD is releasing dual, triple and quad cores all at 45W. Going down from 65W to 45W will reduce power consumption and heat somewhat, but not enough to make 65W a bad option. If you can either wait or buy from somewhere else, a 45W processor is a good choice; otherwise a 65W processor will work pretty well and if you are ok with a bit of tweaking, you can undervolt the processor to reduce power consumption and heat further.

[WizDawg]

I can get a 235e on ebay for $60. Its only 2700mhz. You think that's a better choice than the 245 2900mhz 65 watt?

It is described as OEM. Does that mean just no fan?


I didn't see the 240e 2800mhz on ebay.

[WizDawg]

One more thing, sorry.

What is the difference between these 2?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231179

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by WizDawg I can get a 235e on ebay for $60. Its only 2700mhz. You think that's a better choice than the 245 2900mhz 65 watt? It is described as OEM. Does that mean just no fan? I didn't see the 240e 2800mhz on ebay.

OEM usually means just the bare product (in this case no retail box or fan) and less warranty (if you bought from newegg it would mean just one year warranty on the processor, not sure what the ebay seller is offering in terms of warranty). In terms of performance there won't be much of a difference, so either one would work fine. I would go with the 245 if possible since you get better warranty and slightly better performance; at stock it should run pretty cool and quiet, however you can tweak it so that the power usage and heat is reduced even further.

Regarding the ram, there is almost no difference between the two in specs, however the more expensive one 4GBPK has a higher voltage tolerance so it is more appropriate for overclocking then the 4GBNQ.

[WizDawg]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 OEM usually means just the bare product (in this case no retail box or fan) and less warranty (if you bought from newegg it would mean just one year warranty on the processor, not sure what the ebay seller is offering in terms of warranty). In terms of performance there won't be much of a difference, so either one would work fine. I would go with the 245 if possible since you get better warranty and slightly better performance; at stock it should run pretty cool and quiet, however you can tweak it so that the power usage and heat is reduced even further. Regarding the ram, there is almost no difference between the two in specs, however the more expensive one 4GBPK has a higher voltage tolerance so it is more appropriate for overclocking then the 4GBNQ.

Wont my warrenty be voided anyways as soon as I put on the Zalman fan?