$450 Ubuntu/Win7, Intel, Photo + db + Web

[The Other Steve]

$450 Ubuntu/Win7, Intel, Photo + db + Web

Hello.

This will be my first time with a DIY build.

The system will be used for

• website development and testing. Typical session: open simultaneously – emacs, GIMP and/or Inkscape, XAMPP for local mySQL and phpMyAdmin service (small db, < 1 GB), Firefox and IE (testing). No flash shockwave development.
• photo editing: scans from film, file sizes typically <=25MB but occasionally as large as 65MB.
• web surfing
• occasional statistical simulation and data-modeling on small db.
• occasional document creation/program compilation in tex/LaTeX.
• possibly some simple video creation, but if so, rarely and small files.
• no gaming

Monitor will be a Samsung 19” SyncMaster 953BW 1440x900, anticipated to be upgraded in the future.

I would like this to be an Ubuntu/Win7 setup. I have been a Windows user the last fifteen years, but want to try linux. I tried Ubuntu 9.1 through the live CD, and thought it was fine (annoying screen-offset, disappointing fonts in Firefox).

I have a strong preference for proven, long-term reliability. Speed and the latest frills and doo-dads are less important to me than reliable, well-built components that will endure.

This side of the computer is really quite new to me; I have always used DELL/IBM pre-packaged builds. There has been a lot to learn. I have tried to read all the right FAQs and do my homework. We’ll see.

Here’s my attempt:

Motherboard:
ASUS P5G43T-M Pro 775 Intel G43 HDMI Micro ATX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131602

CPU:
Pentium Dual-Core E6500 Wolfdale 2.93GHz 2MB L2 775 65W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116093

RAM:
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1333 F3-10666CL8D-4GBHK
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231189

HDD:
Western Digital Caviar Blue 500GB 7200 16MB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136073

ODD:
SAMSUNG DVD/CD Burner
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827151175

PSU:
CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX 400W ATX12V
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139008

CASE:
ANTEC Three Hundred
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042

OS:
Have it: Ubuntu 9.1
Postponed: Win7-64.

Misc System Details/My Homework:

• ASUS product literature: E6500 dual-core supported by the MB.
• RAM is on ASUS’ QVL.
• Newegg’s PSU calc, system as above = 241W, so 400W PSU looks sufficient, with plenty of headroom for fans and possible future second HDD and 4650 video card if needed.
• Win7-64 preferred for 4GB RAM
• No info about Ubuntu support for this specific board, but Ubuntu supported on ASUS P5G43 Workstation according to http://linux-tested.com/results/asus_t3-p5g43.html , and the ASUS P5QL-EM – with the same G43 ICH10 chipset as my proposed board – is on the linux HCL according to http://www.linuxquestions.org/hcl/sh...ct/4333/cat/37 .

Well, that’s my first try. It’s been a lot to read and learn! How’s it look?

[kilgoretrout]

From a linux perspective, there are a couple of concerns. First, the drivers for your onboard intel graphics are currently in a state of flux in linux. The entire driver model has been reworked and many people have reported various problems. For others, everything works fine. You can expect that situation to continue for some time. Also, you appear to have an interest in graphic design and intel graphics may not be up to the task for you. I would recommend that you forgo a board with onboard intel graphics and go with a lower end nvidia based card instead. It will run rings around any intel graphics adapter and nvidia's linux support is excellent. Here's an inexpensive nvidia based card which I'm currently using with linux that runs excellent in ubuntu 9.10:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814187037

The second concern is with intel sound. Historically, intel sound was great on linux. However, all that changed starting with intel's ICH8 chipsets onwards. These chipsets have a sound hardware specification known as intel snd_hda. Intel is a fairly linux friendly company and has been forthcoming with their hardware specs for this architecture but the specification is extremely vague and open ended. All this means is that you can have the same audio chipset implemented in many different ways by the various chip manufacturers and that's exactly what has happened. All this has caused a lot of problems for those trying to write linux drivers for current intel sound chipsets. Chances are you may not have any problems, but if you do run into one, you are talking about doing some fairly advanced things to try and correct the problem. Personally, I got tired of fiddling around with intel sound on some motherboards and have gone to this turtle beach card which has excellent linux support:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829118103

I would give the onboard intel sound on your motherboard a try but if you experience problems, go with the above card.

[The Other Steve]

That was very helpful. Thank you.

Am I correct that if I go to a discrete video card, that though the motherboards are (almost) the same price, the better choice for a motherboard is without onboard video?

ASUS P5P43TD LGA 775
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131607

would be a better choice?

Your confirmation of compatibility with Ubuntu, plus its lifetime warranty make that Sparkle card look like a winner. Thanks for the recommendation.

As a principle, I am a little bit put off by passive cooling design, but honestly I don’t know how much it matters, and if it’s a reasonable accommodation. I just don’t know. And I am still trying to get my bearings a little bit for who the reliable, preferred manufacturers for components are. EVGA? XFX? Is it worth paying more for a card with a fan? One of these eVGA cards, for example?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130471

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130509

[The Other Steve]

Oh, this is maddening!!

It looks like the ASUS P5P43TD board will indeed support Ubuntu. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Asus_P5P43TD

But I can't find any 4GB kit on ASUS' QVL that is for sale! None of the *&%# part numbers match! A-Data, Corsair, Crucial, G.Skill, Kingston, OCZ ... . When I do get a match, it is "no longer stocked". Maddening!

[jdeb]

this memory is on the qvl, available, and I have used in a build. I believe you had it in your original post as well.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231189

[kilgoretrout]

Any nvidia based card should work much better than the onboard intel graphics. If you don't like the passive cooling, choose one more to your liking within your budget:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...rchResult=True

Both of the cards you linked to would be fine. I'm using the passively cooled card on the box in our bedroom so noise was a big consideration. Stay away from Radeon based cards for linux. Although the situation is getting better, Radeon still lags way behind Nvidia for linux support. Once you install Ubuntu, just go to System>Administration>Hardware Drivers and Ubuntu will automatically detect your Nvidia based card, suggest the best proprietary Nvidia driver for installation and automatically download and install the driver if you so direct. It's pretty painless.

As far as the choice between a board with onboard intel graphics and one without, if the price is about the same, I would go for the board with the intel graphics, all other things being equal. It's always nice to have a fall back if your graphics card suddenly dies. You may have to disable the onboard graphics in the bios setup although many boards will automatically detect the presence of the add on graphics card.

[glc]

My brands of choice for Nvidia cards are EVGA and Asus. If you do get a video card, check the minimum power requirements on Nvidia's site carefully, you may need a stronger PSU. Of the 2 you linked, I prefer the 9600GSO, and it requires 400 watts, so you would be good to go with a 400 watt Corsair.

For a motherboard without onboard video, I'd spend just a few bucks more and get the Asus P5Q SE Plus to get the P45 chipset. It takes DDR2 memory.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145184

[The Other Steve]

Okay, thank you each.

I'll most likely go with the P5Q SE PLUS motherboard, as that seems to be exactly what I had wanted and asked for -- not the newest or fastest design, but of a known quality and well-regarded. Thank you for the recommendation.

Compatibility and the ASUS QVL is driving me a little bit bonkers. I suppose the answer is that the Corsair TWIN2X4096-6400C5 DDR2 800 is just a double quantity of the CM2X2048-6400C5 (on the P5Q SE PLUS QVL). I have been expecting to find exact matches for part numbers, and it's been driving me bonkers.

[glc]

That Corsair kit works very well in the P5Q series boards. In fact, I have that exact kit here in my P5K Pro and I've sold a few P5Q systems with it. I had one defective set, and Newegg took care of the RMA no problem. Corsair is lifetime warranty, and their customer service is highly regarded if it fails after the vendor's return window closes.

[The Other Steve]

Excellent. Just what I was looking for.

Here's my updated components list. Changes: P45 instead of G43; Nvidia video card; E6300 CPU instead of E6500; DDR2 800 instead of DDR3 1333. Total cost has increased to ~$500.

ASUS P5Q SE PLUS 775 P45
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131347

INTEL PENTIUM E6300 WOLFDALE 2.8
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116091

CORSAIR 4GB DDR2 800
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820145184

EVGA GEFORCE 9600 GSO 1GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130509

WESTERN DIGITAL BLUE 500GB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136073

ANTEC THREE HUNDRED
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042

CORSAIR 400W PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139008

SAMSUNG 22X ODD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827151175

UBUNTU 9.10
http://www.ubuntu.com/


edited to add the ODD!

[glc]

If you would like a tad more speed, get a Black hard drive instead of a Blue. Longer warranty too.

[The Other Steve]

Oh, I didn't realize that about the warranty. Thank you.

I realized I left out the ODD in my revision, which I'll go back and insert via edit. Regarding brands, this has been another (very) small puzzle. I haven't been able to find reliability statistics, or any kind of analysis like that, and the advice I have read most often is "all pretty much the same". Is there a rationale for choosing among the major manufacturers in ODDs?

[glc]

The only real rationale is historical reliability - and I try to avoid Samsung/Toshiba. I prefer (in no particular order) LG, Lite-On, Sony, and Asus. Pioneer is a crapshoot and Plextor is overpriced (the Plextor drives sold in the US are made by Lite-On). I'm not too sure about HP's these days.

Then again, all drives should have a 1 year warranty, and if a $30 device lasts a year, you have gotten your money's worth out of it.

[The Other Steve]

Thank you all again for your help.

The computer is assembled and seems to be functioning correctly. I haven't installed an OS yet (will go Win7 then Ubuntu), but the machine passes through POST and I was able to get into the BIOS and change settings (clock and AHCI) and also confirm that the HDD and ODD were detected and correct.

Here's a picture (and the same again, larger):



Cable-management was certainly a bit of a puzzle; there seemed no "great" way to neatly clear the graphics card or otherwise tuck cables neatly away.

I think the thing that surprised me most about assembly was how basically "crude" some of it was. Punching the CPU-cooler's feet through the MB required much, much more force than I was comfortable with. I suppose the board is just much tougher than my anxiety trigger, but the MB made these awful creaking noises as the cooler snapped into place. Awful. Unlocking the RAM clips and closing the CPU cap were similar. I was reminded of the old "snap-tite" plastic models I used to build -- cheap and crude. I had expected a more delicate and precise experience.

[The Other Steve]

I lurked for quite a while on the board before joining/posting/purchasing, and for what it's worth, for anyone else who might just be getting started, I thought I might share some links I had found useful in doing research and choosing components.

ars technica "The Budget Box" Oct 2009
http://arstechnica.com/hardware/guid...09-edition.ars

Tom's Hardware CPU Buyer's Guide Oct 2009
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/267801-28-buyer-guide

BESTCOVERY "Best Budget Processor"
(I don't know the reputation of this site, but I found the article and discussion useful)
http://www.bestcovery.com/best-budget-processor

Tom's Hardware "Best Graphics Cards For The Money" Nov 2009
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...card,2464.html