First ever novice builder looking for advice/recommendations

[triquee]

I'm an avid WoW player and I've been playing the game on a Dell XPS 400 since 2005. My machine is slowly (but gracefully) dying and in a few months, I will have the funds to replace it. Since I first purchased my XPS, Dell's customer service and sales practices have hit an all time low - so I am not interested in purchasing another system from them.

For the past few weeks I have been researching custom builders/boutique builders and finding that a) getting a build to my exact specifications becomes expensive and b) from reading a ton of reviews, it seems there are precious few custom builders to trust - they either have longevity in the industry with a less than stellar overall customer experience, or they have recently hit the scene and have yet to stand the test of time. Another reason I've been considering a home build, is that I'd really like to take advantage of the in-depth knowledge of the way a computer functions that home building affords.

My tech experience level: Novice when it comes to hardware - slightly above average when it comes to software/troubleshooting/UI - did desktop and networking support to pay the bills while in undergrad. But that was many moons ago. I know things have changed a lot since then.

What I'm looking for in a build:

- Impressive gaming performance at a "reasonable" price
- Intel Core i7
- Possibly dual graphics cards (not sure about price, power usage, or even necessity)
- I'm kind of paranoid about cooling
- 64 bit OS - NO VISTA - Windows 7 preferred
- Blu-ray optical drive
- Memory must be at least 4GB but would prefer 6 or even 8
- 500G - 1T HD (nothing special, but definitely reliable)
- Sound blaster audio

Uses:

- Gaming (WoW mostly, some Sims 2/3)
- Productivity (full time student, so Microsoft Office '07 will be the extent of my productivity needs)
- Light multi-media usage (music and movies)
- Web browsing
- Online streaming video/audio.

I'll also need externals (except speakers) - monitor, mouse, and keyboard and networking as my current system will be gifted to my brother.

Budget: $1,800 total including externals, software, shipping, taxes, etc. Can uncomfortably be extended to $2,000.

Prefer to do my shopping at Newegg.

I know it's a lot to take in, but I'm hoping for any and every suggestion you've got. Like I say, I'm a total novice at this - no idea about hardware compatibility or even if what I want is reasonable for my budget.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[David M]

I agree, by building your own computer you learn a lot more. I have built 5 computers now from the knowledge and the great help I received on this forum. It sounds like you want a fast gaming computer but do not want to waste money.

Buy a 24 inch, 1920 x 1200 monitor. They are less expensive now than what you might think. A larger monitor makes a real nice difference for gaming. Its money well spent. You will though need a more powerful graphics card with plenty of video memory to drive all that screen acreage.

Stick with a single more powerful graphics card. You will have fewer problems. Two cards at near the cost of a single card gives you less performance. Look at ATI's 5000 series cards. Consider the 5870 or the 5850. Your graphics card by far has the most influence over your graphics performance.

Go with an Intel chipset...fewer problems.

Get a quality power supply. This is critical for having a reliable system. See the PSU recommendations here: http://www.pcmech.com/forum/a/ The PSU will need to have a little more than just barely enough power to run the graphics card. Also, you don't want your PSU fan to be screaming away at 100% every time you start up a game. Relating to noise, find a PSU with a 140mm or 120mm fan.

[Masaki 7-11]

Something like this will work well, though I'm not sure exactly what it comes to after shipping and taxes (there is room to bring the price down without affecting build too much, mainly by taking out soundcard and using integrated sound instead, also note that the processor is a Core i7 with HT disabled, performance difference is very small versus the much more expensive Core i7):


NZXT TEMPEST Crafted Series CS-NT-TEM-B Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811146047
$109.99

Western Digital Caviar Black WD7501AALS 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136283
$79.99

SAMSUNG 2494SW Glossy Black 24
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824001338
$199.99

ASUS EAH5850/2DIS/1GD5 Radeon HD 5850 1GB 256-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121361
$299.99

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Professional 70SB088600002 7.1 Channels PCI Express x1 Interface Sound Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829102019
$119.99

CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139005
$98.99

Logitech G15 USB Wired Standard Gaming Keyboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16823126034
$79.99

Logitech MX518 8 Buttons 1 x Wheel USB Wired Optical Gaming Mouse
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16826104178
$42.99

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-10600CL8D-4GBHK
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231180
$94.99

ASUS P7P55D LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131404
$149.99

Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I5750
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115215
$199.99

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116754
$104.99

LG Black 8X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 40X CD-ROM SATA Internal Combo LG Blu-ray Reader & 16X LightScribe DVD±R DVD Burner
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136162
$99.99

Subtotal: $1,681.87

[glc]

WoW does not require an extraordinary video card - it plays very well on a mid-price card. The nice thing about a custom build with carefully chosen components is the ease of upgrading it later. I'd also build it without a sound card - today's onboard video is excellent, try it first, add a card later if you really do need it. Networking is built in to all motherboards these days. Here's something to start with, prices are with shipping at Newegg, tax is only charged in CA, TN, and NJ.

Case: Coolermaster RC-690 $90
PSU: Corsair 650TX $100 (add a few more bucks for a modular if desired)
Motherboard: Asus P7P55D $150
CPU: i7-860 $280
RAM: Various brands DDR3-1333 or 1600, two 2x2gb kits $190 (refer to the Asus QVL for that board)
HDD: WD Black 750gb $80
Bluray burner: LG $200 (if you don't want a burner, you can get a LG Bluray rom drive that burns CD's and standard DVD's for $100)
Video: Radeon HD4890 $200 (various brands)
OS: Win 7 Home 64 bit $105
Monitor: Samsung 24" $200

This puts you right around $1600, this gives you fudge room for a nice keyboard/mouse and some upgrades. I feel that these components are at the "sweet spot" - most bang for the buck.

[triquee]

You guys are great

Lots of food for thought here and some of the suggestions even mirrored my own research. The NZXT TEMPEST case is right on target with what I was looking for but having a hard time finding with all the options available.

Seems like a resounding yes for the ASUS P7P55D. Was considering going with an MSI P55M-GD45, but now I'm not so sure. I'll probably show my greeness here when I say that I assume the only difference between ATX and Micro ATX is size? I don't know if this is a concern, but I wouldn't want to end up with a mobo that was ill-fitted to my case. Not sure how well matched the two need to be if at all (if that makes any sense).

Visited ASUS' website - the G.SKILL F3-10600CL8D 2x2 kit is supported. Is the G.SKILL better to go with than Kingston HyperX?

Appreciate the details on choosing a power supply also.

This is exactly what I was looking for - build suggestions from people who've been around the block that take a lot of the guess work out for inexperienced folks like me. This has been immensely helpful.

[Masaki 7-11]

The MSI motherboard should work fine as well, up to you really to figure out which one you want to use; generally Asus motherboards are a bit more user friendly, but I use Asus, Gigabyte and MSI motherboards and haven't had any major issues with any of the brands. Both MicroATX and ATX will fit into ATX cases, main difference between them is size and that MicroATX has fewer PCI/PCIe slots due to the smaller size.

Regarding ram, G.SKILL seems to be pretty good and offer good price, generally if the ram is supported on the QVL it should work fine.

For a good gaming build you'll usually want at least 600W if you want to have a decent bit of headroom. You'll need more if you are going with multiple cards, but multiple cards doesn't usually provide that much of a boost in performance over single card, better to just upgrade the one card later on if you have to. The TX series from Corsair is pretty reliable and provides good power, but all the cables are attached to the PSU so cable management may be a bit hard; that being said the cables are long enough that you can use them in large cases with bottom mounted power supplies (cases with bottom mounted PSUs are pretty good since they isolate the heat of the PSU from the rest of the system). The HX series from Corsair are about as good as the TX series but they cost more and have modular cables (cables that can be attached/detached from the PSU). There are other options from other manufacturers, but the quality and price is about the same, Corsair is pretty reliable though so not that much of a reason to go with a different manufacturer.

Regarding video card, you will want a HD4890 or higher if you want to max out the settings on WoW; my build with the HD4870 runs WoW with settings on Ultra and 2xAA without any lag except for occasionally in Dalaran (FPS seems to be about 25-30 in Dalaran, 60+ everywhere else). Going with a HD5850 will allow you to run WoW with settings on Ultra and 8xAA without lag as well as make your computer more futureproof if you will play newer games.

[triquee]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 Regarding video card, you will want a HD4890 or higher if you want to max out the settings on WoW; my build with the HD4870 runs WoW with settings on Ultra and 2xAA without any lag except for occasionally in Dalaran (FPS seems to be about 25-30 in Dalaran, 60+ everywhere else). Going with a HD5850 will allow you to run WoW with settings on Ultra and 8xAA without lag as well as make your computer more futureproof if you will play newer games.

Yeah, with the card I have now, it's more like 11 FPS outside either bank, 25-35 in the sewers, and 60+ everywhere else. And you don't wanna know what horrifying things happen when the whelps come out in Ony's Lair

Quick question...Will I need a CPU cooler? I did a quick search of the boards and read some folks saying it would only be necessary if overclocking is planned. I don't plan to overclock. I'm pretty green when it comes to this stuff, so I want to be sure to get/budget for everything I'll need for the build. I'd hate to get started and have to quit and wait for a part to ship that I forgot or didn't know to include.

[amdalex]

Originally Posted by triquee Yeah, with the card I have now, it's more like 11 FPS outside either bank, 25-35 in the sewers, and 60+ everywhere else. And you don't wanna know what horrifying things happen when the whelps come out in Ony's Lair Quick question...Will I need a CPU cooler? I did a quick search of the boards and read some folks saying it would only be necessary if overclocking is planned. I don't plan to overclock. I'm pretty green when it comes to this stuff, so I want to be sure to get/budget for everything I'll need for the build. I'd hate to get started and have to quit and wait for a part to ship that I forgot or didn't know to include.

The CPU will come with a cooler that will work fine.

[triquee]

Originally Posted by amdalex The CPU will come with a cooler that will work fine.

Sweet.

So, this is the build I'm looking at:

Case: NZXT TEMPEST Crafted Series

Motherboard: ASUS P7P55D LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX

Video: ASUS EAH5850/2DIS/1GD5 Radeon HD 5850 1GB 256-bit DDR5

PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX

CPU: Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core

HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal

RAM: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333

Optical: LG Black 8X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 40X CD-ROM SATA Internal Combo LG Blu-ray Reader & 16X LightScribe DVD±R DVD Burner

Monitor: SAMSUNG 2494SW Glossy Black 24" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor

Keyboard: ABS M1 Heavy Duty Professional Gaming Mechanical Keyboard

Mouse: Logitech V220 Dark Gray 3 Buttons 1 x Wheel Cordless Optical Mouse For Notebooks (I chose this one because I already have one and it works well for me - I'm a girl and I have small hands - but I've had it a long time and it could stand to be replaced)

I hope I didn't leave anything out.

Thanks again, you guys!

[jdeb]

looks great, here is the link for the memory

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231189

this part number is on the qvl.

[theyosh]

Dont' forget your OS.

theyosh

[triquee]

Originally Posted by theyosh Dont' forget your OS. theyosh

Yep! Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit. Got it!

[triquee]

Hmmm...

An AMD build shaves about $120 off the total cost and provides 3.0+ GHz CPU performance without having to overclock:

Motherboard: ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131402

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103674

PSU (to accommodate the CPU): CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139006

Everything else is the same (triple checked the QVL for the new motherboard and the RAM from the intel build is supported).

What do you think?

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by triquee Hmmm... An AMD build shaves about $120 off the total cost and provides 3.0+ GHz CPU performance without having to overclock: Motherboard: ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131402 CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103674 PSU (to accommodate the CPU): CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139006 Everything else is the same (triple checked the QVL for the new motherboard and the RAM from the intel build is supported). What do you think?

Should work great for gaming; almost all the gaming builds I do use AMD processors since the gaming performance is similar to intel. If you will be doing heavy CPU stuff like video encoding, you'll probably be better off with an i5 or i7 but for gaming AMD processors work great as well. If you do go with AMD you won't need to upgrade the PSU as the power consumption isn't much higher than Intel.

[triquee]

Originally Posted by Masaki 7-11 Should work great for gaming; almost all the gaming builds I do use AMD processors since the gaming performance is similar to intel. If you will be doing heavy CPU stuff like video encoding, you'll probably be better off with an i5 or i7 but for gaming AMD processors work great as well. If you do go with AMD you won't need to upgrade the PSU as the power consumption isn't much higher than Intel.

True...only a 30W difference (I think). I was worried that it'd be cutting it kind of close since the ATI Radeon 5850 recommends a 500W minimum. Forgive me, I'm still learning

[glc]

Say all you want about performance and price - but you still can't beat the stability of Intel on Intel.

Intel has also just released the Pentium G, i3, and i5 Clarkdale 32nm processors, which have an excellent price/performance ratio with low heat and power consumption. Clock speeds are all 2.8 GHz or higher.

[triquee]

Originally Posted by glc Intel has also just released the Pentium G, i3, and i5 Clarkdale 32nm processors, which have an excellent price/performance ratio with low heat and power consumption. Clock speeds are all 2.8 GHz or higher.

Oh!

I gotta check this out. What's this compatible with H55 motherboard only business though?

[glc]

The new processors have integrated graphics - which you don't have to use. They are in fact compatible with P55 boards, but the graphics controller will be disabled.

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by glc Say all you want about performance and price - but you still can't beat the stability of Intel on Intel. Intel has also just released the Pentium G, i3, and i5 Clarkdale 32nm processors, which have an excellent price/performance ratio with low heat and power consumption. Clock speeds are all 2.8 GHz or higher.

Questionable, stability of AMD processors on AMD chipsets is also very good if using a quality motherboard (same as for Intel; if using poor quality motherboard you will not have good stability). As for the new Clarkdale processor, they aren't much faster than Phenom II X2 if they are faster, cost more and have useless integrated graphics (at least for a gaming build).

[glc]

As for the new Clarkdale processor, they aren't much faster than Phenom II X2 if they are faster,

You might want to do a little more reading before you make a statement like that.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-661,2516.html

It makes a 550 look sick. I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR about price differences though.

[triquee]

I've been reading that the Clarkdales might be prime fodder for extreme overclocking due to their low energy usage and low cost but overclocking scares the bejeezus out of me.

[glc]

Nothing says you have to overclock. They are PLENTY fast at stock speeds.

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by glc You might want to do a little more reading before you make a statement like that. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-661,2516.html It makes a 550 look sick. I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR about price differences though.

Tom's Hardware is biased against AMD for processors and all the settings they run the games are low (which is useless for comparison on a high end gaming computer), this can be read about in many forums, a non-biased source would be overclockers club: http://www.overclockersclub.com/revi...l_core_i5_661/ . They run all the games at max settings and 1920x1200 resolution which is about what a high end gaming system will run games at. Notice how close all the benchmark scores are for the different CPUs and tell me why you would want to spend extra money on Intel processors. Price differences are important, no point comparing hardware if you don't count prices, otherwise you can always point someone to the most expensive hardware piece, and even though you can get something with 90% or more of the performance of the really expensive piece for less than half as much, you wouldn't know if you don't include price in comparison.

[glc]

I don't want to hear about bias - because your bias is clear as a bell. I'm biased too, but I make it a point not to disrupt AMD processor discussions.

[triquee]

Now, if I decided to go with the Intel DP55KG motherboard:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...intel%20dp55kg

would I be able to keep my G.SKILL RAM choice:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231189

It doesn't appear as though it's been specifically tested with G.SKILL but here's what Intel has to say about memory compatibility:

http://www.intel.com/support/motherb.../CS-030685.htm

And this particular set of G.SKILL ram touts as one of its features, compatibility with dual channel core i7 CPU for P55 chipset motherboard (which the Intel motherboard is).

I read in the reviews of the motherboard on Newegg that there's a guy running 8GB of G.SKILL Ripjaw on it successfully...

[Masaki 7-11]

Originally Posted by glc I don't want to hear about bias - because your bias is clear as a bell. I'm biased too, but I make it a point not to disrupt AMD processor discussions.

I don't see how you would think I am biased because I recommend and use both AMD and Intel processors. I do like to compare them and pick out which one works better for the price and usage; just because I use AMD processors and recommend them in the right situation does not make me biased. I also don't interrupt Intel processor discussion, but the AMD option was brought up by the OP and the pros and cons should be properly discussed if a full decision is to be reached.

Anyway, if you did bother to read the overclockers club review, you would have noticed that in gaming, the Core i5 was 10% faster overall in most games than the Athlon X2 II (which is about half the cost) at maximum settings and 1920x1200 resolution. You also would have noticed that all the CPUs performed very closely, meaning that for gaming, the video card is still the bottleneck and the CPU choice doesn't matter too much. I've also done testing similar to overclockers club with my own builds and my conclusion is the same.

[glc]

I honestly feel you get better quality with Asus motherboards over Intel boards these days. You definitely get more versatility - Intel boards have always had very limited bios settings.

Years ago, I used to build almost exclusively with Intel boards, but when the quality slipped I switched to Asus and haven't looked back. Intel boards are manufactured by Foxconn.

[WalterK]

My son is a major WoW player, and did a Christmas build that he says works great playing it. He used the ASUS P7P55D motherboard, with an i5 processor, G.SKILL Ripjaws RAM and 4890 video card with a 22 inch monitor and Win7. Total cost was around $1,250. Here's the link:

http://www.pcmech.com/forum/build-your-own-pc/212137-updated-gaming-build.html#post1447577

The build itself was easy, the parts are compatible, and the cost was reasonable.

Good luck!

[triquee]

So I think I've FINALLY nailed it all down and decided on a build. It's so hard to pick and choose, there's so much out there, so many possibilities. I'll probably change my mind in 3 days (lol), but for now this is what it looks like:

Case: LIAN LI Lancool PC-K62
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811112239

I ultimately decided on the Lancool because it really appeals to me aesthetically and the completely tool-less design is really really cool - I can imagine this case being able to grow with my changing needs effortlessly (well, so long as I don't decide to get an ATI 5970).

The only thing I'm concerned about is the 4 fans. I haven't been able to determine how many fan leads are on the motherboard I chose (ASUS P7P55D LGA 1156 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131404) and I'm wondering how I should set them up. Which should I hook up to the mobo if there aren't leads for all? Should I consider getting a fan controller? Will I need any wire extensions (all of the fan wires are 3 pin), converters? It's all so confusing.

Everything else is the same (power supply, OS, gfx card, RAM, HDD and optical drives) except for the CPU. I ultimately decided to go with the Core i5-750 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115215). From what I've been reading there really isn't a noticeable difference between the i5-750 and the i7-860 outside of the $80 savings (). And IF (that's a big if) I ever do decide to overclock, the i5 I've read is a great choice.

I've also been reading (again and again) that the stock heat sink and fan for the i5 is total garbage. So I'm wondering if I should pick up an after market cooler.

I'm thinking I might try a Bose speaker system.

Now all that's left to do is wait for the funds to come in! So hard to be patient...

[glc]

You can download the motherboard manual from Asus to see how many fan headers it does have. If you do want all 4 running and the board doesn't have enough headers, run them off the power supply with adapters:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812189119

At stock speeds, the retail CPU heatsink/fan is adequate. You can always replace it later if necessary.