I'm finally considering building.

[Dave in Houston]

Since early February, I've ordered two HPs and a Dell that have had to go back due to problems.

The first was an HP with an i7-920, 8 gig of memory and GT220 graphics at about $1200 with tax, title and license. It had frequent intermittent problems with the screen going black for two seconds, then coming back with a message saying the Nvidia driver had stopped responding and then recovered. Four hours on the phone with HP tech support couldn't fix the problem.

Then I bought a refurbed HP box from Best Buy. It was about $700, had an AMD processor and some kind of Nvidia graphics, I don't remember what. The advertising said it had Windows 7, but when it arrived it was Vista. I kept it for two weeks, though, and it worked well during that time. I just didn't want Vista.

Then I decided to change to Dell. I spent a bit less than $600 for a box with a quad-core Athlon and 8 gig of DDR2. I decided to stick with the on-board graphics this time which are the AMD 780 chip set. Unfortunately, though it worked fine when connected by VGA, when I use an HDMI cable, there is a black border around the edge of my Asus monitor at 1920x1080. After an hour or two, Dell tech support concluded that the on-board graphics don't have the capability to over-scan, which is what they think is needed to solve this problem.

I've been thinking about building a computer in a couple of months for my son, but I'm beginning to think that I should build one now for myself.

I'm a total novice, so I'd appreciate your suggestions about what to put in the box.

I'd like to keep it around $800 to $900 including the OS. Less would be better, if it's reasonable. I have keyboard, mouse, monitor, and speakers. The main uses of the computer will be Internet and email. I don't game, but I had two monitors connected to one of the HPs, and I liked it quite a bit.

I have no preference between AMD and Intel. I don't like to pay for being an early adopter, and I like to feel like I'm getting good value. One thing that's really important is that the box is quiet. (I'm amazed how quiet the HP and Dell boxes are.)

As a first-time builder, I want to be sure everything fits together well and that I have plenty of room to work.

In the past, I have kept a computer for 5 years or so. Even though I may have an easier upgrade path in a box I build myself, I'd still like a build with a reasonable lifespan.

I started putting together a Newegg cart with recommendations that I've seen in other posts, but then I said "Dave, who are you trying to kid? You don't know anything about this stuff!"

So, experts, what would you recommend? (By the way, "Stick with the Dell" would be a valid recommendation.)

[Dave in Houston]

I went ahead and made a Newegg cart. I hope it doesn't reveal my ignorance too much.

The total is $600.94. What did I miss? What is the next best $100 or $200 to spend?

Can the selected mother board run two monitors?

Thanks!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Antec Sonata III 500 Black Computer Case
Item #:N82E16811129024
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129024

GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128394

AMD Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition 2.8GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Processor
Item #: N82E16819103652
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103652

A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model HY63I1B16K - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820211364

Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
Item #:N82E16822136284
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136284

LG DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model GH24NS50
Item #:N82E16827136177
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136177

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders
Item #:N82E16832116754
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116754

[Khalil]

Since early February, I've ordered two HPs and a Dell that have had to go back due to problems.

That is not surprising at all I am seeing more and more Dells and HPs under warranty coming in for repairs at my shops. Folks are paying us just they don't have to pay for the very poor customer support even though they are still under warranty. It is been good for business!

As far as your listed, you have the wrong ram listed you need DDR2 not DDR3 for that board but I would replace that Gigabyte for an Asus motherboard and this RAM if you want a stable product with excellent customer support, everything else looks good but why Windows 7 64 bit? Why not 32 bit?

[Dave in Houston]

Hi, Khalil,

I think I need Windows 7 64 bit if I want to run two monitors. At least that's what it says on this CNET site:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31012_7...-10355804.html

If I want to use ddr3 memory, which motherboard would you suggest? Down the road I'd like to avoid paying high prices for obsolete and little-produced ddr2 memory. I've had that experience buying PC2700 memory.

Have you had experience running two monitors with the onboard video? Or should I buy a video card?

Thanks for the feedback!

Dave

Edit: I think I misinterpreted the cnet review. But isn't the 64 bit Windows 7 twice as good as the 32 bit version?

[orbrit]

you can run 2 monitors on 32 bit OS's. That chart was stating that it can't be done in Windows 7 Starter Edition.
I have only ever run dual monitors either by adding a second card in addition to the on-board video, or just getting a new dual video capable card (for better performance than the on-board video)

[glc]

Software compatibility is still better with 32 bit.

[Khalil]

But isn't the 64 bit Windows 7 twice as good as the 32 bit version?

Mathematically 64 bit is 100s of times better than 32 bit, for example the memory cap on 64 bit is 128GB and according to some developers much higher, 32 bit operating systems are limited to 3.2 gb tops.
Problem is software developrs are not developing true 64 bit applications yet! So all the power of 64 bit is nowhere near harnessed and I believe we are a decade or 2 away from 64 bit applications becoming main stream

Here is the motherboard I recommend for DDR3

[Dave in Houston]

Hi, Khalil. A few more questions:

1. I tend to leave many windows open at the same time. I'm likely to have a word doc, an excel spreadsheet, outlook, and several browser windows open. Is that any reason to want more than 3.2 GB?

2. If I get the 32 bit Windows 7, is there a cheap and easy upgrade path should I later decide I need the 64 bit?

3. Any more insight on whether I can run two monitors from the on-board video?

4. With the ddr3 motherboard you suggested, what memory would you recommend?

5. I probably should get a memory card reader. Is there one you would recommend?

Thanks again,

Dave

[Khalil]

I have ran experiments before just as curiousity on regular 32 bit PCs. Loaded up with far more than you listed and have rarely gone over 2.5GB of RAM.
On my music editing machine I am running 2 CPUs with 6 cores each and 16GB of memory but I only went with that much memory because I am running a virtual box.
Not to bore you, but I run 3 seperate operting systems on 3 different monitors, still with all that and using high demand RAM software like Reason, Sonar 8.5 Producer and Adobe Auditions 3 I have yet to go over 9 GB memory at one time!
Since you mentioned you like using a lot of applications at the same time it might be worth your while to get a Quad Core like this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103656 it is worth the extra $35 in my opinion.

[Dave in Houston]

Hi, Khalil,

I'll definitely go with the quad-core processor and the DDR3 motherboard. I noticed that the mother board has the new, fast SATA and USB, which seems like a good idea for future upgrades.

I now have the 32-bit OS in my cart, but is there a cheap and easy upgrade path down the road?

I chose OCZ memory because there was a combo deal with the motherboard. Is it a good choice?

My cart is now $691.93, up about $100 from yesterday. Interestingly, yesterday shipping was free, today it's $2.99. A copy is attached for reference.

Thanks again for your advice.

Dave

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Antec Sonata III 500 Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129024

ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO/U3S6 AM3 AMD 785G SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.354658

AMD Phenom II X4 925 Deneb 2.8GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor Model HDX925WFGIBOX - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103656

OCZ Gold 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model OCZ3G1600LV4GK - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.354658

LG DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model GH24NS50 - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136177

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136284

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 32-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116752

[WalterK]

Just a couple of FYI's, Dave.

The motherboard itself does not have onboard USB 3.0 or SATA @ 6 GB/sec. It comes with an add-on card, the ASUS U3S6, which will take up the PCI Express x4 slot on the motherboard. The card retails for about thirty dollars, so you are saving some money by getting it with the motherboard...but if you want to add the faster USB and SATA later, you can do so and just get the regular M4A785TD-V EVO now. I just built with that board, and it works well.

My pre-buying research indicated that the M4A785TD-V EVO might be finicky about RAM, and I drove myself nuts by trying to get a four GB kit that ASUS said was compatible from a manufacturer that I had used before, based on the ASUS QVL. I finally went with the Crucial RAM kit linked here, which works fine:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148262

Good luck!

[Dave in Houston]

Walter, thanks for the heads up!

Maybe it would make sense to get the SATA/USB upgrade later. I don't know whether I'll ever really need it.

To anyone else reading this: I chose the OCZ Gold memory because Newegg offered a combo deal, and also it has a $30 rebate. However, I'm not anxious to buy myself a lot of problems, especially on my first build. Has anyone ever used that memory with the ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO motherboard?

This stuff gets complicated, at least to my simple mind.

Thanks!

Dave

[WalterK]

Obviously, I haven't used the RAM that comes with the combo kit. To run at that speed, though, it appears that the RAM will have to be overclocked, which I know very little about.

[wwkennedy]

One quick word of advice: If you are a first time builder, make absolutely certain you are 100% grounded before touching any of the components on the motherboard. Ask WalterK about that one.

[Dave in Houston]

Originally Posted by wwkennedy One quick word of advice: If you are a first time builder, make absolutely certain you are 100% grounded before touching any of the components on the motherboard. Ask WalterK about that one.

What does "before touching any of the components on the mother board" mean?

Before touching any part of the mother board?

Or before attempting to plug a component in to the mother board?

Something else?

Or all of the above?

And if I'm assembling the components they way glc recommends, with the motherboard sitting on a cardboard box, Where should I attach my ground bracelet? I'm thinking it would be to the metal case of the PSU, right?

Walter, is there an interesting story behind this observation?

Thanks!

Dave

[Dave in Houston]

I'm interested in getting this order finalized, but the question of which RAM to use remains open.

I'd like to choose one from OCZ because they have both combo deals and rebates at Newegg.

Does anyone have any experience using the OCZ DDR3 with the M4A785TD-V EVO mother board?

Thanks!

Dave

[Extremerc12]

I have used OCZ ram in the past without any issues. As a matter of fact, aside from corsair, OCZ is probably my second choice in ram. This is highly do the great technical support I have received from OCZ in the past. I don't have any experiences coupling that ram with that particular board however. All I am speaking on is my experience with OCZ.

[Khalil]

We have discontinued using anything from OCZ, they are no longer a quality product and the good support they used to have is gone by the way side, the reason you are seeing them in so many combos is because they have become distressed merchandise.
My advise is pay a little more and stay away from the combo deals, they are near always bad news. I would recommend sticking to Corsair, Kingston or Crucial when it comes to memory.

[WalterK]

Dave, I had an experience that I think was a fluke in building this computer. I always build outside of the case, and did so this time around. Habitually, I am touching something that is grounded, like bare metal on the case, when I do ANYTHING inside the computer. No idea what happened, but when I was shorting the power pins this time to start up to install the OS, the pins sparked! I thought I had a dead motherboard on my hands. Fortunately, it came back to life and appears to be working fine.

As for the RAM, I have never used OCZ. I have had good experiences with Kingston, Crucial and Corsair. I chose Crucial for this build because they guarantee compatibility. It works, so I'm content.

[Dave in Houston]

Gents:

Thanks for the reminder not to buy a $500 headache in order to save $30.

I'm going to try to get this stuff ordered in the next day or so.

[Kidd]

Originally Posted by Dave in Houston One thing that's really important is that the box is quiet.

My first build, while fun, was way too noisy at first. I put in extra fans with lights in them, and I thought it looked cool, but they came out pretty quick because of the noise.

I read this last month about making a PC quiet:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...o/4347290.html

Dynamat is a little pricey, but I have an extra kit. I may put it in my PC just to find out how much it helps.

[Dave in Houston]

When I went to Microcenter to buy the processor to build my son's PC this weekend, I saw what I thought was another good deal, So now my son and I may both be building this weekend.

I bought this processor for $100:

AMD Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition Heka 2.8GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Processor Model HDZ720WFK3DGI - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103652

And got this mother board for free: (actually $10 with $10 rebate)
ASUS M4A77TD AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...03&Tpk=m4a77td

It may not be everybody's favorite motherboard, but I really liked the price.

The Microcenter guy sold me this memory to go with it:
A-DATA Gaming Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model AX3U1600GB2G9-AG - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-409-_-Product

He said it's not on the QVL, but it should work. If not, I can return it. Do you think I will need to?

Thanks!

Dave

[ryuk999]

I think it'll work but the board says it only supports 1600mghz memory by doing an overclock, so you might have to do some messing around with the BIOS settings.

[glc]

No biggie, if you leave the bios alone it will run at 1333.

[Dave in Houston]

I'm beginning the assembly process. I ended up with this case, which I liked a bit better than the Sonata:

Antec Two Hundred Black ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-070-_-Product

And this power supply:

Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC "compatible with Core i7/Core i5" Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...0%20earthwatts

I had one of these lying around that I bought for testing purposes, but I thought you guys would give me a hard time if I used it.

COOLER MASTER eXtreme Power Plus RS-460-PMSR-A3 460W ATX12V V2.3 Power Supply - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-028-_-Product

I'll keep you posted on the progress.

Thanks again for all the help!

Dave

Edit: I built outside the case... now installing Windows. Putting it in the case will have to wait until after church. I have to be there and ready to sing at 7AM.

[glc]

The Coolermaster isn't that bad a PSU. However, the Antec you bought is considerably better. You now have a decent spare unit.

[Dave in Houston]

To everyone who offered advice, thank you very much. This project went more smoothly than I would have imagined.

The rest of this post is aimed mainly at people like me who might be wondering about building their own PC... I'd say give it a try. The folks on PCMech are very gracious about answering questions, even the dumb ones that a novice like me asks.

Because I am a novice, choosing and assembling the parts took a long time, but not any more time than I spent on the phone with HP and Dell on the three PCs I had to send back before I decided to build my own. Now, having completed the project, I bet I know more than the people answering the phones at Dell or HP tech support. They were not very helpful at all.

Here's the list of parts I ended up using:

Antec Two Hundred Black ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129070

Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified ... - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371015

ASUS M4A77TD AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131603

AMD Phenom II X3 720 Black Edition Heka 2.8GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Processor Model HDZ720WFK3DGI - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103652

A-DATA Gaming Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model AX3U1600GB2G9-AG - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820211409

Sony Optiarc 24X DVD/CD Rewritable Drive Black SATA Model AD-7240S-0B - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827118030

Western Digital Caviar Black WD7501AALS 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136283

EVGA 512-P3-N725-LR GeForce 8400 GS 512MB 64-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130532

The Newegg price for the whole package would be about $580, but I paid about $100 less by watching the sales at the local Fry's and Microcenter stores. I installed an XP license that I already owned, so I had no cost for OS software, though I'll probably upgrade later. So for about the same price as I had paid for an entry level Dell machine, I instead got an entry level home-built with very good parts and lots of room to grow. I also gained the experience of building my own box, so that in the future I'll be much more capable when maintenance is required.

I built outside the case like the experts recommend, and everything started right up. After I put it in the case, I had one issue, a boot message saying that one of the USB controllers had too high a current. I quickly powered down, then disconnected and reconnected all the USB connections on the motherboard. That fixed the problem. everything else went smoothly, though not always quickly.

Note that the motherboard is not what the PCMech experts recommended. Microcenter had a deal where they gave me a free motherboard with the purchase of the processor, so I used the free one.

I had planned to just use the on-board graphics, but the free mother board had none, so I bought a graphics card based not on technical considerations, but on price alone. The one I used happened to be on sale at Fry's for $15 after rebate, and it provided an inexpensive way for me to build on Easter weekend instead of waiting until the next weekend. It seems to work fine for my purposes, though I might upgrade in the future.

Once again, many thanks to everyone who provided help and support!

Best regards,

Dave

[Khalil]

Excellent choice of hardware including the video card, those 8400s. I used those nvidia 8400s on my base systems for a long time, they are work horses and we have had minimal issues with them, I used Asus but evga will work just as good. This will be a stable system that will serve you well!