New build for student/gamer misses $1000 target

[Dave in Houston]

With glc's help, my old XP box is running reasonably well, so my son and I have decided to build his new box first and build mine later.

He's graduating from high school in May, and this is a graduation gift. The intent will be for it to get him through 4 years of engineering school. He also plays some games. (World of Warcraft is the only one one I know by name.) Though gaming and engineering school may not be compatible, he's keenly interested in the gaming capabilities of the new box.

Last week at Fry's we bought him this case:

COOLER MASTER Storm Sniper SGC-6000-KXN1-GP Black Steel, ABS Plastic, Mesh bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119194

It was on sale for $109 ($89 after rebate).

Yesterday at Fry's we bought him this power supply on sale for $99:

Antec TPQ-850 850W Continuous Power ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active ... - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371009

Here are the rest of the bits we've picked out:

Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I5750 - Retail
Item #: N82E16819115215
ASUS P7P55D PRO LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813131405
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.350115

(The combo is $350.)

Kingston ValueRAM 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KVR1333D3K2/4GR - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134792
($95)

Western Digital Caviar Black WD7501AALS 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136283
($80)

ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827135204
($24)

GIGABYTE GV-R587UD-1GD Radeon HD 5870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-316-_-Product
($430. We'll probably actually buy Asus or Diamond card, but Newegg doesn't have them right now.)

The cart total is now $978.94, plus the $200 we spent on the case and power supply. The OS will be Windows 7 with a student discount. I asked Jake to shoot for a $1000 budget, so we've broken the bank. Any suggestions on how to get back toward the target? Any other comments on the choices?

Note that he'd like to have the capability in the future to run two video cards in crossfire, which was the reason for the overkill on the PSU.

Thanks for all the help... PCMech has become as great resource for me!

Regards,

Dave

[Khalil]

Great parts list but I recommend you get an Asus, Diamond or HIS video card instead. Gigabyte support can be very dodgy and if something happens to the card you will want good tech support and replacement service.

[Dave in Houston]

Khalil, I'm looking for an alternative source for the video card. Newegg doesn't have anything 5870 cards in stock from Asus, Diamond, or HIS.

For everyone:

I'm trying to teach my son the lesson that life is full of difficult choices, so we put together an AMD build with a less expensive CPU, but kept the 5870 video card.

Here's what that looks like:

It's the same as the above build, but the mother board and CPU are changed to:

ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
AMD Athlon II X3 440 Rana 3.0GHz Socket AM3 95W Triple-Core Desktop Processor Model - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.349610

The combo deal price is $190, a savings of $160 over the Intel build shown above. That makes the total price (including the $200 case/PSU) to $1018, which is just a bit over the $1000 budget. Note that Tom's Hardware says that CPU is the best gaming CPU for $90.

Is this the best trade-off? Would it be better to go Intel and reduce the video card cost?

I guess I could afford the Intel build, but I don't want to teach my son that he deserves whatever he wants because he's from the affluent suburbs.

Edit: another way to get to the price target would be to change the video card to ATI 5770. What do you think?

[WalterK]

I went through the "build your son a computer" scene a few months ago. Like your son, Dave, mine likes to play games, with his primary game being WoW. The parts list ended up as:

http://www.pcmech.com/forum/build-your-own-pc/212137-updated-gaming-build.html#post1447577

He says the video card he got works great on the games he plays; those that you are looking at are certainly upgrades to my kid's HD 4890.

My guess is that you'll probably end up with something like an HD 5850 to hit your price point.

[orbrit]

I'd find out what games your son plays and make your video card decision based on that information.
Buying a 5870 to play WoW is like buying a Porsche to drive around town. It'll turn heads and look good but you can get the job done for a lot less!

[Force Flow]

Here's an HIS 5870 that's in stock:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-301-_-Product

[Dave in Houston]

With a 5850 video card at about $300, the intel build goes down to a total of about $1050, much closer to budget. Is that a better choice than the AMD setup with the 5870 card?

I'll ask my son what games he plays besides WoW. Maybe there is some money to be saved if his games are less demanding. He thinks having two video cards would be cool, so I guess another possibility would be to go with a less expensive card now and add another one later on with Crossfire.

Orbrit, are you happy with the 5770 you're using now? Would that be adequate for WoW? I see another thread that you're thinking about Crossfire.

Thanks!

Dave

[glc]

I'm biased. I'll take the Intel build in a heartbeat. The AMD will game just as well, but the Intel will kill it doing other tasks.

Put a 5830 in it if you have to. This is still a very strong card.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121367

[orbrit]

Originally Posted by Dave in Houston With a 5850 video card at about $300, the intel build goes down to a total of about $1050, much closer to budget. Is that a better choice than the AMD setup with the 5870 card? I'll ask my son what games he plays besides WoW. Maybe there is some money to be saved if his games are less demanding. He thinks having two video cards would be cool, so I guess another possibility would be to go with a less expensive card now and add another one later on with Crossfire. Orbrit, are you happy with the 5770 you're using now? Would that be adequate for WoW? I see another thread that you're thinking about Crossfire. Thanks! Dave

The only game I play is COD MW2, and the 5770 does well with that game.

For me it was such a vast improvement over my old setup that I probably don't need Crossfire, but it is still tempting! I used to get 30 FPS at 1024x768 medium details, most of the eye candy turned off (depth of field, shadows etc.). That was with a 512Mb ATI X1650 Pro.

With the 5770 at 1920 x 1200, with everything on extra detail, all the eye candy turned on, no AA, I get 92 FPS in multiplayer.

My game stats have really improved, and it really is the faster system and GPU.

[Dave in Houston]

Sounds like I'm better off sticking with the Intel processor.

Here's a question:

My local Microcenter store sells the i7-860 to walk-in customers for the same price Newegg charges for the i5-750. It would cost me a few dollars for tax and for the loss of the combo deal on Newegg.

Would that be a worthwhile upgrade? Would I need to change anything else?

I'll ask my son a bit more about which video games he plays when I see him tonight, so we can finalize the video card decision. I hope we'll be building by the weekend.

Thanks!

Dave

Edit: By the way, Microcenter also sells the i7-930 for $200. I gather, though, that the socket 1156 solution is still considered to be more rugged and trouble-free than 1366. Is that correct?

[glc]

The 1156 is also less costly than the 1366. If you can get the i7-860 at the same price as the i5, that's a virtual no-brainer.

[Khalil]

Just because glc is biased don't let that completely turn you off AMD. In benchmarks the Intels are faster than AMD, in real world applications, you will not see or notice the difference.
Since Gaming is the focus here, you can save money with an Athlon X4 630 for $100 will more than do the job. You don't need an i5 or an i7 to get a gaming rig to give you top notch performance, what you need is the best video card you can get your hands on. Even a dual core Athlon X2 for $59 or if you choose an Intel you can go with an i3-530 for $119, any of those CPUs will give you incredible gaming performance with an ATI 5870.
Put your money in the video card if you want to game.

[Dave in Houston]

My son and I discussed this at some length this evening.

He prefers to stay with the Intel processors because many of his friends are using them. He thinks the 5770 card finds the sweet spot in the cost/performance arena. (He said he may start playing Call of Duty, and he was pleased to see that it's a good performer on that game.)

ASUS CuCore Series EAH5770 CuCore/2DI/1GD5 Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support ... - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121363

His friends also recommend the Ripjaws memory:
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL8D-4GBRM - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231278

Is this the right memory?l

With the little bit of budget he has left, I think he wants to try to find a blue ray player.

One more question: I think that the student price of all the Windows 7 versions is the same. Is there any reason he shouldn't get Ultimate?

Thanks!

Dave

[Khalil]

What motherboard and CPU did you land on? Hard to tell you if that memory will work or not without knowing what the other hardware is gonna be!

[glc]

If it's a P7P55D series, the only G.skill DDR3-1600 on the QVL is the GBNQ, GBHK, and GBPI.

[Dave in Houston]

Sorry for not being clear... this is the motherboard:

ASUS P7P55D PRO LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131405

The CPU will be i7-860, because we can buy it locally for the same price as i5-750.

So this is the whole component list:

ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827135204

COOLER MASTER Storm Sniper SGC-6000-KXN1-GP Black Steel, ABS Plastic, Mesh bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119194

Western Digital Caviar Black WD7501AALS 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136283

Antec TPQ-850 850W Continuous Power ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active ... - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371009

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL8D-4GBRM - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231278

ASUS P7P55D PRO LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131405

Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I7860 - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115214

Note that the case and PSU were bought at Fry's for less than the Newegg price, and the CPU will be $200 at Microcenter.

Should the memory be this one instead?

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231193

We haven't identified a BluRay player yet. Do you have one to suggest?

Also, is Windows 7 Ultimate OK for this box?

Thanks again!

Dave

Edit: Can the memory also be this one:
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-10600CL8D-4GBHK - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-180-_-Product

I think my boy wants the memory to be blue in color... as if it's not hard enough to get things that work properly together, I also have to worry about color coordination inside the case!

[Khalil]

The 1333 Memory you listed is on the Asus QVL the 1600s you listed are not, with this type of motherboard and chipset I highly recommend you stick to the Asus QVL.

[Dave in Houston]

Am I reading the QVL correctly, that this one:

G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2800CL9T-6GBNQ

is on the QVL, but the 4GBNQ is not?

what a strange world we live in...

[Khalil]

Why is that strange? GSkill may have used different chips on the 4GBNQ that are not approved by Asus! Just because that 2 RAM kits share the same lettering does not mean they are identical spec.

[Dave in Houston]

Perhaps not so strange as it is just really complicated. The 2x2 gig set has CL9D 4GBNQ in the part number. Ignorant as I am, I might have guessed that the D stands for dual channel, and the 4GB stands for 4 gigabytes, since the 3x2 set says CL9T 6GBNQ.

In my ignorance, I might have guessed that they were otherwise the same.

So what I have learned is that I have to read the QVL in agonizing detail.

Anyway, thanks for the help. I'm going to order this stuff shortly.

Dave

Edit: Ordered. Thanks again!

[glc]

Edit: Can the memory also be this one: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-10600CL8D-4GBHK - Retail I think my boy wants the memory to be blue in color... as if it's not hard enough to get things that work properly together, I also have to worry about color coordination inside the case!

That ram is fully tested and approved.

[Dave in Houston]

Well, the box from New Egg arrived today and I found out that I forgot to order the video card, which you'll recall was going to be the Asus 5770.

We can still build this weekend. I didn't want to admit it, but I own a GT210 card that I bought on sale for $20.

Maybe I forgot to order the 5770 because I subconsciously want a 5870... or maybe even one of those new-fangled Fermi cards. What do you think?

[orbrit]

Originally Posted by Dave in Houston Maybe I forgot to order the 5770 because I subconsciously want a 5870... or maybe even one of those new-fangled Fermi cards. What do you think?

LOL I thought this was for your son!

but seriously - go to your local Fry's Electronics and get the 5770.

[Dave in Houston]

I was going to say that I live vicariously through my son, but now I've bought a few bits myself.

See my other post for more info.

[orbrit]

so did you pick up the 5770 for your son's build?

[Dave in Houston]

Believe it or not, I was trying to get Jake to buy the Asus 5770 card at Fry's for $180, but he wants to wait and see what happens in the video card market before he makes a final decision.

The box is up and running, but there are a couple of issues. I'm going to let Jake ask the questions to resolve them.

He's a great kid, you guys wil like him.

[Jake in Houston]

Hello, im Jake, Dave's son.

The main problem I am having right now is from what i have researched is that the marvell controler has no PATA drive, and i am getting a message that tells me no hard disk detected when i boot up, but then it moves on and continues fine.

It is mostly as annoyance, because my computor boots up find and runs everything well, but i cant figure out how to disable the marvell controller so that i wont get that message.

On the other hand i could be completely wrong because my research consisted of about 5 minutes on google.

[orbrit]

In the BIOS can you just disable any PATA devices - they may be set to on or auto.

[glc]

Look in the bios for JMicron or JMB363. That's the controller you need to disable. NOTE that this will also disable the black SATA port and the eSATA port.

[Jake in Houston]

i have looked in the bios and found that Jmicron menu, it was on IDE mode, but i have already changed it to disabled without relief to my problem. The other option it has is AHCI mode which sounds good from what i read in the MoBo manual.