Advice needed please! :)

[marxr87]

Hi all! I used to post on the forum a bit before I went overseas when I was planning on building a rig and the 8800 was all the rave haha. I never got to build that rig and tech has changed immensely so I am kind of lost now. I want to build a desktop for media purposes, such as music and video, with the focus being high end gaming. I would like to keep my budget around $1000 and I would also like to get a laptop (or netbook) for school. The school one requires only internet, the ability to type papers and long battery life being the most important thing. I got my ex gf a nice toshiba netbook with awesome battery life so I was thinking along the lines of that. My friend just ordered a rig from http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/C..._Configurator/ and it seems to be a pretty awesome rig. Can you guys send me some links to some articles to catch me up on the tech and make some brand and item recommedations for both of these computers so I can start to pull together a general idea of what I want? I was going to hook my desktop up to my tv, but I just remembered it is a samsung led dlp...so I don't know if frame rate would be an issue. If so I will need a nice monitor as well and I want to get some really decent surround sound. Once you guys can start pointing me in the right directions I will get more specific on my desires and needs haha. Money isn't really an issue but I don't care about cutting edge so much as reliability, stability, compatibility, longevity before needing upgrades and of course the bang-for-buck factor will be my biggest concerns. Thanks all! I play pretty intense graphics games like Dawn of War 2, Dragon Age Origins, Empire Total War, Crisis...things along that nature.

[orbrit]

High end gaming is all video card.
here is the video card hierarchy table
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...rd,2569-6.html

ATI HD 5870 is pretty much the sweet spot at this point. If you have the extra money then this would be where to invest it.

For a $1000 build the 5850 will still do pretty well.


Here's a starting point for you.

SAPPHIRE 100282-3CODSR Radeon HD 5850 1GB 256-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102885

ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO AM3 AMD 785G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131398

AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HDZ955FBGIBOX - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103674

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Desktop Memory Model F3-10666CL7D-4GBRH - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231276

CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power ... - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139006

Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136284

Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042

LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer Black SATA Model iHAS424-98 LightScribe Support - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106335

[orbrit]

Having given this a bit more thought we could easily step down the CPU to something like the AMD Athlon II X3 435 Rana 2.9 Ghz for $75 and definitely get the HD 5870 for video.

If all you're doing is a basic school PC for music and gaming it will be plenty fast enough.

[marxr87]

I noticed that the motherboard only supports usb 2.0 instead of the new usb 3.0. Do you think there is a significant difference? I was looking at this one (3-Way SLI Support) GigaByte GA-X58A-UD3R Intel X58 Chipset SLI/CrossFireX Ultra Durable™3 Mainboard Triple-Channel DDR3/1600 ATX Mainboard w/ 7.1 Dobly Audio, eSATA, GbLAN, USB3.0, 2 x SATA-III RAID, IEEE1394a, 4 Gen2 PCIe, 2 PCIe X1 & 1 PCI (All Venom OC Certified). What do you think of the website my friend used for his desktop? It seems most people are going with Radeon these days over Nvidia. Are amd's processors making a comeback too? The article was a little over my head but I found the amd triple core interesting, does the lack of shared L3 make a difference? My friend said either go I7 or stay dual-core, what do you guys think of that? I had also heard to always go with a steel full-tower simply for expansion and cooling purposes. Do you think that 120mm fans are more than enough or should I go for a 240mm? Trying to catch up with the times is hard haha. What do you think of processors that come overclocked, I wouldn't risk doing myself but if it comes out of the box that way...the cyberpower website offers 10% or 20% oc but I wonder if it is even remotely necessary, especially with an I7...I doubt it. The Phenom x4 is ridiculously fast, there has to be something I'm not understanding because why aren't the I7s near that? Something to do with FSB or something? I like the articles, keep em coming. I was wondering if anyone knew of some articles simply explaining how the new hardware functions compared to the old, like x4 vs x2...I heard that fsb is not applicable with x4 and now its all about hyperthreading? Arg!!! :P Also, my friend was telling me that with technology these days, the chokepoint of lag is the hdd...is this true? I doubt its very significant to warrant a 10000 rpm or solid state. I'm curious though, if you are running your OS on a solid state, since it is flash memory does it pretty much instantaneously boot up? I like that 1Tb hdd you recommended though. Also, any comments or articles or tips on laptop/netbook questions I had? Hm, now I am confused, at the beginning of the article it sounded like the x3 was triple core which I hadn't heard of before but later in the article it says quad...As a curious sidenote, in the benchmarks for the processors in that article, the I7 860 seems to beat the 920 on everything, why is that?

[marxr87]

Haha sorry I stumbled on that article myself through yours! Here is the link http://www.guru3d.com/article/athlon...review-test/16

[orbrit]

If you're going to go the Intel route, stick to the 1156 chipset for reliability. The experts here would recommend the ASUS P7P55D series. For a single PCIe slot (if you'll never want to Crossfire/SLI) the P7P55D-E is a good fit - USB 3.0 support.
The Core i5-750 is a solid performer and easily overclocked to 3.3 GHz without affecting stability. You can go higher than 4.0 GHz but it takes more effort and know how!
If you want hyperthreading support for your apps go for the i7-860. CPU clock speeds and performance numbers are a little misleading.

Here is a benchmark article on the Core i5-750 vs the Phenom II X4 955 and 965
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/819/3

I think there's plenty of room in a mid tower ATX case. Some of the cards can be big, but if yo go single video card you should still have plenty of room.

Personally I'm waiting for the cost of SSDs to come down. I have no performance concerns with my SATA HDD for my level of gaming!

My boot time on my Win 7 Pro x64 build is less than 60 seconds so I'm not really concerned. It takes 15 seconds just to get past the JMicron BIOS message.


As far as laptops,think carefully about screen size. I think that a 12-13" would be a good fit for school. Certainly no bigger. Some of the smaller netbooks are really quite annoying to use because of the keyboard and screen size limitations.

I have had really good experiences with Dell laptops for the last 10 years for myself and my clients. I've seen a lot of dead or dying HPs.

[marxr87]

Do you think I should leave the option open for crossfire so when my videocard starts to get outdated I can get another or just stick with single and buy a new bad ass card to replace it? I just worry that the new card might have compatibility issues with the motherboard and if i can just go to crossfire I could still keep up unless something breakthrough like another dx10 came along which I doubt...

[orbrit]

If you think you'll ever Crossfire then make sure you get a board that will allow dual x8 on both PCIe slots (or x16)
I can't see anyone ever needing to Crossfire 5870s.

[marxr87]

I was wondering, what is the difference between the 5770 and the 5870? They both have a gig of DDR5 and the price difference between the two is 100$

is the 5870 that much better than the 5770 to justify the price? or would I be set with a 5770?

[glc]

I'd recommend a P7P55D-E LX, a i5-750, and a single 5870. Let your budget determine whether you get 4gb or 8gb ram.

[orbrit]

2 Crossfired 5770s perform about the same as a 5870- in some games they exceed the 5870s.

Only you can decide if the 5770 is good enough for you. I started with one and just added another in Crossfire.
I only play COD MW2 but it sure is pretty!
All the details, 1920x1200 and it maxes out the FPS on multiplayer (92 shown in XFire) and I get upwards of 120 in single player.

With the single 5770 I would get 60-90 FPS in multiplayer.

As far as difference on paper the 5870 has double the stream processors of the 5770 and the 5870 also has a 256 bit bus vs 128 for the 5770.

[marxr87]

Sorry I don't know much, but I assume the 1156 is the I-5 chipset since the I7 seems to be 1366...what do you mean reliability? Also is it a concern that the 750 only has l2 cache? there are other i5s that have l3 cache, is that significant...I don't really know what the difference is. And if I do get the 5870 should I get 1 or 2 gigs of memory? It is 90 more dollars for the 2 but it seems like it might be a worthy investment...Like I said I am about bang for buck, so if you think if its better to go to i5 to put the money towards a better gfx card that seems wise to me...I am just wondering if it would be cheaper in the long run to plan on crossfiring the 5770 when it starts to become outdated or just get the super beefy 5870...I would assume that both can play any game out there on maxed out settings reliably right now? I don't really care about theoretical benchmark power or on paper stuff...if it is too good to take advantage of the extra power, what is the point? Is the P7P55D-E LX that asus mb? Also, thoughts on usb 3.0 vs 2.0? What about the difference between 10000 and 7200 rpm hdd? Much of a difference in gaming at all? Do you think games will be switching to blu ray in the future? Is that something I should consider as well? Do you think on board sound cards are good enough for my expectations? I would like to get a sweet surround sound system too if anyone has any recommendations...is the 7.1 much better that 5.1? I'm a newbie so I probably shouldn't even think about RAID should I? I hear its complicated...It also seems like it would be cheaper to get two 5770s in crossfire than one 5870. Oh I think I get it, the 750 is a quad core and the others are dual core??

[glc]

The i5-750 is the only quad core i5. The i7-860 is also a socket 1156. You only need 2 gigs of video ram if you are going to be gaming with a gigantic monitor and very high resolutions.

The LX is an inexpensive motherboard with only one video card slot. If you plan on Crossfire, you have to get the Pro, which is $50 more.

Onboard sound is fine these days, as are 7200 rpm hard drives. USB 3.0 devices are coming.

For gaming, it's ALL in the video card. No need to buy top of the line anything else.

[marxr87]

Well I was wanting to hook my desktop up to my 1080p 63 inch samsung but then i remembered it is led dlp...do you think it will be too slow to game on? If it isn't, would I need the 2 gigs then probably? Thanks for all the help guys. So I should probably get windows 7 64 bit? Does home or ultimate or any of that junk matter? Also, my friend said he went from 4gb to 6gb of ram and noticed a significant difference...thoughts on that? 4gb doesn't seem like that much ram these days...And do you think getting a blu ray player in the computer would be something to think about? Do you think games will take that turn soon, being on blu ray?

Has anyone heard anything about the quality of computers they build at that cyber power website? I mean they seem cheap and awesome...maybe cheaper than me building myself but if what they make is crap then I will build my own. My friend ordered one from there and it seemed pretty solid...

My idea for this computer is really starting to come together though, thanks for all the help guys!

[marxr87]

Also, from what I've been seeing from power supply units, I could save quite a bit dropping from a 750 down to a 700...do you think 700 is enough to run a rig like this?

[ryuk999]

Originally Posted by marxr87 Well I was wanting to hook my desktop up to my 1080p 63 inch samsung but then i remembered it is led dlp... 1)do you think it will be too slow to game on? 2) If it isn't, would I need the 2 gigs then probably? 3) So I should probably get windows 7 64 bit? Does home or ultimate or any of that junk matter? 4) Also, my friend said he went from 4gb to 6gb of ram and noticed a significant difference...thoughts on that? 5) And do you think getting a blu ray player in the computer would be something to think about? 6) Do you think games will take that turn soon, being on blu ray?

1. Give it a try, if it seems to slow then it's time to start shopping for a monitor / TV.
2. For the 1080p 1GB of vram is plenty
3. I would go for 64bit if your gaming, allows for more ram to be installed and used
4. Personally I see no use for Pro / Ultimate, Home does it and does it good
5. I haven't even come close to using 4GB of ram when playing a game such as Crysis warhead or Mass Effect 2 or any newer game. I suppose it'd be nice to have 6GB of ram if you could play 2 games at once....
6. Blu-ray is meant more for movies. Haven't seen a single game that's on a blu-ray disc and isn't for the PS3.

Edit: the only 700W PSU's that were about the same in quality ended up being more expensive than the Corsair 750W. I'd stick with the 750W recommended by Orbit.

[orbrit]

Originally Posted by marxr87 Well I was wanting to hook my desktop up to my 1080p 63 inch samsung but then i remembered it is led dlp...do you think it will be too slow to game on? If it isn't, would I need the 2 gigs then probably? Thanks for all the help guys. So I should probably get windows 7 64 bit? Does home or ultimate or any of that junk matter? Also, my friend said he went from 4gb to 6gb of ram and noticed a significant difference...thoughts on that? 4gb doesn't seem like that much ram these days...And do you think getting a blu ray player in the computer would be something to think about? Do you think games will take that turn soon, being on blu ray? Has anyone heard anything about the quality of computers they build at that cyber power website? I mean they seem cheap and awesome...maybe cheaper than me building myself but if what they make is crap then I will build my own. My friend ordered one from there and it seemed pretty solid... My idea for this computer is really starting to come together though, thanks for all the help guys!

Your LED/LCD TV will experience a little input lag, but you may not notice it too bad. Resolution doesn't change just because it's a big screen. It's still 1920 x 1080.
2 Gb are only really needed if you're running resolutions like 5760 x 1200 (ATI Eyefinity for example)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit should be all you'll need. That way you can use more than 4Gb RAM if needed.
I run 4Gb and in game I get to peak usage of about 2.5Gb

I haven't bought a game CD in a while - I always download through Steam. A BluRay may ot be a bad idea, especially with that nice TV.

I know nothing about Cyberpower.

[marxr87]

Awesome, thanks for the info! Definetely helped out alot. One of my questions seems to keep being cast aside, however, have any of you heard of the quality of cyberpowerpc.com builds? They seem so cheap that I am tempted to order one instead of build my own...my friend got one and it seems pretty awesome. But I still am tempted to build my own just because I have never done it...

[marxr87]

Ok cool, so the 1gb vid card is the way to go...if I ever do decide to crossfire will the 750 be able to handle that load?

[orbrit]

Yes the CorsairTX750 is Crossfire Certified with the HD 5870

http://game.amd.com/us-en/crossfire_...ied.aspx?cat=3

[marxr87]

Screw the cyberpower plan haha. I want to learn how to do this myself and I have bad luck. My friend has amazing luck so his comp was fine, but from the reviews I've read...you either get a decent comp or a completely @#%^12 up one...I would probably get the latter. So with that in mind...so far my rig is looking like:
Video card: (does the memory clock mean much, the xfx is 4800 while the HIS is 1200 mhz)(also, difference btwn gddr5 and ddr5?)(xfx also has lifetime warranty)
5870
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150476
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161301
5850
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102884
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150454
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814103085
Finally 5770 x2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127490 x2
this is really nice it seems...comes with a mobo discount, msi is pretty good if im not mistaken?
PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139006
HDD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136284
Case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129042
Ram:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231276
Optical Drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106335
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827129051 (blu ray)
Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115215 (i-5 750)
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115214 (i7) (only reason I list is because it comes with assasins creed 2 for free. subtracting that from the price of the processor makes it only about 30 dollars more...and I would play assassins creed. if you guys think the i5 is still the way to go let me know)
Mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131398 (crossfire supported right?)


Anything I am missing? Also, has anyone tried gaming from a projector? I would be curious how well that works...any advice on printers and scanners, monitors, and surround sound? The rig itself is what I am shooting for 1000...the other stuff is not included in that budget so feel free to suggest anything.
speakers:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16836121006
any 7.1 suggestions or improvements for the one i picked?
monitor:
I've always been a fan of samsungs no dead pixel policy, my friend picked up a pretty nice lg monitor tho
What do you think of monitor size? I would like it large enough to be immersed but not so much that it is hard to register what is going by having to move my head or eyes around alot...I figure maybe btwn 24 and 30 in?

[marxr87]

The parts that seem to be set in stone (psu, mb, ram, hdd, and case) total up to $484.90, there is a ten dollar mail in rebate for the psu but shipping for the case is 9.99 I am adding the following components to this base price
With the dvd +31.99
516.89
with blu ray + 104.99 (+1.99 shipping)
589.89

With i-5 +194.99
679.89
With i-7 +229.99 (thought it fair to subtract 50 since it comes with assassins creed)
714.89

With 5870 I picked (either one) + 419.99
904.89 (ouch)
With 5850 +289.99 for sapphire 349.99 for xfx and 304.99 for diamond
774.89
834.89
789.89

With 5770 x2 +174.99 x2 but with $15 rebate x2 159.99 x2 =319.98
804.88

It seems we're close but over with any option except the 5870 where its pretty over no matter how you slice it. Any way to cut some corners here?

Also, the previous post with my parts should have this listed as the blu ray player
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136183
I accidently posted a blu ray writer!

I am willing to raise my budget if it will make a vast difference, but I am trying to stay around this price so I don't get carried away with stuff I don't really need.

[marxr87]

Do you think the processor can be reduced without suffering any real slow down since all I will do is game, listen to music, watch movies, download, and web surf?

[orbrit]

Another option for an in stock 5870
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...03-084-Product


Yes you can definitely downgrade the CPU for those uses!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115222.

I went the 2 x 5770 route and it's been stable for me. I have 2 of these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-873-_-Product

Some say that 1 card is better than 2 when performance is equal.

That motherboard you linked is for AMD processors. You'll need an Intel Socket 1156 board
ASUS P7P55D-E Pro LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131621

Although it has not been recommended, I purchased this one and have not had any issues at all. The system is screaming fast and Crossfire is working well.
ECS P55H-A(1.0) LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-244-_-Product

[marxr87]

Why is that board not recommended? Chipset is the same it seems....Its funny the more realistic I become the more I can easily cut away. If I am going down to an I3...should I consider maybe going amd? If it is all about the gfx card these days, why is everybody scrambling to get these screaming processors? Also, what do you think of the OC'd msi 5770 I linked?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127490

you get a big discount if you get the mobo with it...Idk much about MSI mobos

[marxr87]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130259

here is the mobo you can get with it...if you get them together it would cost 374.98

Also, does anybody know if any of these parts will be dropping in price soon due to new tech coming out or something?

[orbrit]

Originally Posted by marxr87 Why is that board not recommended? Chipset is the same it seems....Its funny the more realistic I become the more I can easily cut away. If I am going down to an I3...should I consider maybe going amd? If it is all about the gfx card these days, why is everybody scrambling to get these screaming processors? Also, what do you think of the OC'd msi 5770 I linked? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127490 you get a big discount if you get the mobo with it...Idk much about MSI mobos

Motherboard you listed here:

Mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131398 (crossfire supported right?)

is for AMD processors and you listed the i5-750 and i7-860 processors.

The bundle - it's the right socket, but that board is way overkill. It may be a saving but you're still paying $200 for the board.

Bang for buck, the AMD Athlon II x3 435 is a great gaming processor and only $75. Coupled with the motherboard above will be a good basis for a gaming PC.
If you go that route, I'd get the single HD 5870, as there's only 1 PCIe 2.0 x16 slot.

[marxr87]

Haha, does this happen alot? People think they know what they want only to come full circle to your original suggestions?

[marxr87]

Is there a difference between these 5870s? One says cypress xt...i dont know if that matters
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161301
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161329

[marxr87]

Amazing how much you can learn when you leave behind your preconceptions. Its hard for alot of gamers to leave cpu prejudices in the past, but your were right orbrit...this article here has convinced me!

I think it should be stickied for all new builders to read haha

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ng,2588-2.html

So ya, now I just want a dirt cheap processor that I can upgrade in the future if I have to and put that cash into the gpu. I think I'll be good with 4gb ram and that processor you recommended...but I would still really like to have a crossfire option in the future if my card becomes old...maybe a different mobo? I think that is my only contention now is whether to get the board you suggested with the one slot or get one that will allow me options in the future.


Edit: What do you think of the 440 rena vs the 435 you suggested?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103843