Second Build - Been 7 years since the last one - a bit lost.

[Beetle B.]

OK. First some info on how the computer will be used. I run Linux almost exclusively (95%+). Specifically, I run Gentoo, so the system will deal with a lot of compiling. I also do video format conversions often (including encoding to stream to my PS3). I do photo editing at times, and deal with 8 MP images. I know it's silly to say this, but I use Firefox, which has become a beast in itself.

On rare occasions, I play games in Windows.

For the processor, I plan to get either an i7-870 or i7-950.

Question: Of the two, which should I go for? Is one better? Let price not be a concern for this question. The specs for 950 seem better, except possibly for the Turbo Boost (not sure how relevant that is).

Question: Anything wrong with either of the two? Any reasons not to get these? Will they make other aspects of my build more expensive (e.g. memory, motherboard, video card, etc)?

Question: These are 64 bit. I've never dealt with 64 bit processors. Is there anything that may not work on 64 bit? Or that may perform a lot more poorly than on 32 bit? Think both Windows and Linux apps. Heck, think even DOS apps! (I play old DOS games using DOSBox, and not being able to play them is a no-no).

Question:With the above two CPU's in mind, what features do I need to look for in a motherboard?

In general, what should I look for in a motherboard? How many PCI slots, PCI Express, USB etc? What brands/models may be good for the above CPUs? The cheaper, the better, unless buying a more expensive motherboard will make a huge difference in performance. I assume I need either a 1366 or a 1156 motherboard? I don't care about on-board video, but would like decent on-board sound. ATX form factor, of course.

A casual glance at Newegg seems to indicate that the 1156 motherboards are much cheaper. I'll have to wonder if the benefit of a 950 over an 870 is worth the extra price for the motherboard. Any thoughts?

Question: RAM. How much should I get, and what speed? What brands are OK? What specs should I look for? I was thinking of going all the way to 4 GB, but I doubt I'll need that much any time soon 2 GB is the minimum for me (I have 1 GB currently and it can be a minor pain). Is it better to just get 2 GB now and add 2 GB later, or should I get it all now?

Question: Video card. Haven't put much thought into it. I want an NVidia card, with a proven, painless, compatibility with Linux. Bonus points if it gives 3D acceleration for the 64 bit Linux Flash player. I definitely don't want to pay more than $200 for this, and would prefer around $150 unless the extra cost to go near $200 is really worth it. What RAM should I get for the card? What other features should I look for in such a card?

Question: Power supply. Given all of the above, how many Watts should I get, and does it matter what brand it is?

Question: Case. I don't care about appearances. I want the cheapest "good" one possible. It would be nice if it has a USB port in front. It should be able to take at least 4 HD's, and 2 DVD drive slots.

Question: Cooling. Do I need any extra cooling, or will the fans that come with all the parts do?

Thanks a bunch. It may seem like I'm asking you guys to do all the work. I'm not trying to shun doing my own research - I just want to know what features to look for first...

[ryuk999]

What's your total budget?

[glc]

I would recommend the 1156 - specifically, one of the Asus P7P55 series boards. I would also splurge and get 8gb of ram. The bits on the processor are immaterial, it's the bits of the OS. In order to use more than 4gb of ram, you need a 64 bit OS. A Nvidia GTS250 should fill the video card bill, and 512 ram is plenty unless you will be gaming at very high resolutions. 500 watts is sufficient, and look at Antec, Corsair, and Seasonic. Cases are personal preference, but a good deal out there is an Antec Sonata 3 500, it comes with a 500 watt Antec power supply. Stock cooling is adequate in a non-overclocked system with a decent quality case.

To me, the i7-870 is not worth a fraction of the major price increase over the i7-860. Buy at the sweet spot, not the cutting edge.

[Beetle B.]

What's your total budget?

Not counting the CPU, $700-800. That does not include monitor. It includes keyboard and mouse, but those shall be cheap. It'll include a DVD burner, and everything else mentioned above. About $100 will go towards a HD.

Random question: Should I bother with a Blu-Ray drive? Or should I wait till their cheaper? I already have a Blu-Ray player on my PS3, and don't plan on watching Blu-Rays much on the computer - unless there are fancy things I can do with a Blu-Ray beyond merely watching.

To me, the i7-870 is not worth a fraction of the major price increase over the i7-860.

Let's just say that someone else will pay for most of the processor, and my share of the cost will be the same whether it's an i7-870 or an i7-950. And my share is probably less than half the standard price. It's the only reason I'm considering these.

So, given that, should I go for 870 or 950? The only things I can see against the 950 are the Turbo Boost spec (which I'm not sure is relevant), and the cost of the motherboards. I think the 950 MB's go for $150-$200. If I can bring that to $100 or lower without losing much, then it's worth the savings in money.

In any case, what motherboard "features" should I look for (FSB, etc)?

As for RAM, what speed RAM should I look for? And 8GB sounds way too much. I suspect it'll be too expensive. Any ideas how much it'll cost me to get "fast" 4 GB from a reputable company? In any case, unless I need 8 GB any time soon, I'd rather get 4 GB now and add more later - so that I can use the money for something else (video card, motherboard, case, etc).

Sure that 500 W will be adequate? At full load, the i7-950 uses almost 400W by itself. Would 100 W be enough for the MB, drives and video card under those conditions?

Thanks.

[glc]

Like I said - 1156, Asus P7P55 series. Buy for features, there are no performance differences. Unless you will be overclocking, DDR3-1333 is all you need. 500 watts is plenty for ANY system with the video card I recommended, there is not a single processor in the world that uses more than a small fraction of that figure, I don't have a clue where you got that 400 number.

[Beetle B.]

I don't have a clue where you got that 400 number.

From here

About 360-370 W for the 950. On another site I saw 200 W for the 870, which is vastly different - so perhaps there's a problem with one of them.

[Iamjosh]

Those are peak heat/consumption values which no cpu could possibly dissipate for any length of time. The majority of i7-860 or even 920 would be a smaller fraction of those values. My guess is that it would not be very much over 200 watts for 920 and even less for 860.

Please keep in mind that 860 is rated at 95 watts while 920 is rated at 130 watts.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...7,2268-10.html

[Dave in Houston]

Originally Posted by Beetle B. From here About 360-370 W for the 950. On another site I saw 200 W for the 870, which is vastly different - so perhaps there's a problem with one of them.

My interpretation of that test is that it's the power consumption of the entire system, not just of the CPU. They mentioned that at full load, they fired up furmark to tax the graphics system, which was a GTX260 in the test system.

[Beetle B.]

Like I said - 1156, Asus P7P55 series. Buy for features, there are no performance differences.

OK, but the whole point of my questions and this thread was to have someone point out to me what features are relevant! I can't know that it has better features without some understanding of them.

I'll look at the P7P55 series in detail later - perhaps over the weekend. There are quite a few of them and the price range varies a lot.

[David M]

Its so easy to overclock a 860 that I would not bother getting the faster processor.

Its really is genuinely easy to overclock this processor by doing a little research. For basic overclocking, its only a matter of increasing the core voltage. With a little more research, a few tweaks to other settings in the BIOS and some trial and error, its not out of the question to reach 4GHz with this processor on aftermarket air cooling. The difference in price of the two CPU's is much more than an aftermarket heatsink.

It's my opinion that its a huge waste of money to spend more than $300 on a CPU when the less expensive CPU's are so capable of being overclocked and are so close to doing same job as the more expensive CPU's, a couple of which are over $1000. Its not worth spending additional hundreds and hundreds of dollars for a 10% to 20% difference, depending on what you are comparing.

If you look at the CPU bar charts in Tom's Hardware and then look at the benchmarks of some of the online reviews of people who have overclocked the less expensive CPU's, you will see what I mean.

[Beetle B.]

Its so easy to overclock a 860 that I would not bother getting the faster processor.

If they cost the same, which would you get?

The difference in price of the two CPU's is much more than an aftermarket heatsink.

As I explained earlier, getting the 860 will not be cheaper for me.

I'd really appreciate it if someone could give me a clue as to what motherboard features matter. I'm not necessarily asking for specific models, but what features (beyond general reliability) make that motherboard a better one. Perhaps, though, I should ask this in the motherboard forum. I just didn't want 6-7 different posts in different forums - one for each component.

[rwest]

What's better is up to you. What all do you plan to do or think you may want to do?

1. Raid capability. Need it or want it?
2. SATA 6gb/s vs 3gb/s How many ports of each?
3. ide Port.Do you have any old drives you want or need to access?
4. Onboard sound. How many channels? Coax or fiber-optic for digital out?
5. Onboard video? Want, or need it for backup?
6. Firewire?
7. ESATA? How many?
8. USB ports. 3.0 / 2.0 How many of each?
9. Ram. How much supported? How many slots? Memory standard?
10. PCI-E slots. x16 / x8 How many of each?
11. Want any pci slots?
12. Onboard LAN. Which chipset? Do you have a preference? Want a dual LANboard? How fast do you want it capable of? Does that matter to you?
13. ps/2 port?
14. How long is the warranty? Do you care?
15. Overclocking features.
16. Form factor. Full ATX / Micro ATX / or what do you need or want?
16. What about a feature rrich BIOS? Or do really just want the basics?
17. And of course CPU support. Future Upgradeability?

I think I gat almost all of the basic features covered. There's probably some I've left out or missed.









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[ryuk999]

Originally Posted by Beetle B. If they cost the same, which would you get?

They don't and never will, if they did then they would be the same model. Someone has to pay that price difference, it would be easier on that person whoever is paying that difference to simply not pay it. A ~130mghz increase in frequency will never justify the $170 your spending, or someone else spending.

[Beetle B.]

1. Raid capability. Need it or want it?

Definitely want it, but will likely go software RAID-1 (Linux). My concern with hardware RAID is the failure of the RAID controller.

I have a separate thread in the HD forums asking about it.

2. SATA 6gb/s vs 3gb/s How many ports of each?

Never knew about this - will have to look into prices before I buy. I'll get whatever my budget can handle. Thanks for letting me know.

ide Port.Do you have any old drives you want or need to access?

Good question: My current computer has an IDE and a SATA HD. I'll likely move the SATA one to the new computer, so perhaps it's not vital. But...what about DVD burners - are they no longer IDE?

Onboard sound. How many channels? Coax or fiber-optic for digital out?

Never thought about it - I have only stereo speakers. I presume that I can always buy a sound card later if I ever want to get something more complex? If so, I'd rather just get something good enough for now.

Onboard video? Want, or need it for backup?

Not a factor for me.

Firewire

Good question - never had something that could make use of it, so am not sure. What's your recommendation?

ESATA? How many?

Eh...Is this the same as SATA? I want to have the ability to have at least 4 HD's and two optical ones.

USB ports. 3.0 / 2.0 How many of each?

Wow. Didn't realize there was a 3.0 - I'll have to look into this. As for how many - as many as I can get.

Ram. How much supported? How many slots? Memory standard?

Good question. Was planning to start off with 4 GB. Plan to have the computer be quite usable for at least 5 years. As for memory standard, what do you suggest?

PCI-E slots. x16 / x8 How many of each?

OK. This is confusing me. Are PCI slots gone? Is PCI-E their replacement? I used to think PCI-E is only for video cards. How many would you recommend?

Want any pci slots?

What do you recommend? How likely will I be to use a PCI card? Are they being phased out?

Onboard LAN. Which chipset? Do you have a preference? Want a dual LANboard? How fast do you want it capable of? Does that matter to you?

Onboard LAN would definitely be nice, unless you can think of a reason not to. As for speed, don't they all go up to 100 Mb/s? Any reason to go higher? Basically, I use a media server to stream to my TV, so as long as it can handle the bandwidth of HD media...

ps/2 port?

I have a habit of connecting my keyboard and mouse to these. I guess my primary reason is not to use up 2 USB slots. Not really a deal breaker.

How long is the warranty? Do you care?

Definitely care. How long should it be?

Overclocking features.

Probably not a big factor for me. I'd like the flexibility, but not a deal breaker.

Form factor. Full ATX / Micro ATX / or what do you need or want?

Full ATX.

What about a feature rrich BIOS? Or do really just want the basics?

Never thought about it - any guide out there as to what these extra features are?

And of course CPU support. Future Upgradeability?

Probably not that important. If I get the 870 or 950, do you think I'll need an upgrade in the next 5 years? Ideally I'd like my system to last 7 years, but I consider 5 a minimum.

Thanks, that's really the info I was looking for.

They don't and never will, if they did then they would be the same model. Someone has to pay that price difference, it would be easier on that person whoever is paying that difference to simply not pay it.

Oh dear - will this pointless discussion not end?

As I explained above, my portion of the cost for either the 860, 870 and 950 is fixed. The remaining amount will be paid by someone else, and the budget allows me to get a 950, but not something better.

I do have to pay for everything else (motherboard, etc).

So the only reason I wouldn't go for, say, a 950, is if it makes the other components too expensive (e.g. motherboard) OR if someone points out non-price related defects for the 950/870.

[Dave in Houston]

Originally Posted by Beetle B. So the only reason I wouldn't go for, say, a 950, is if it makes the other components too expensive (e.g. motherboard) OR if someone points out non-price related defects for the 950/870.

From what I have read, there are two main advantages of the 950 and its cousins, namely the triple-channel memory controller and the ability to run dual graphics cards in crossfire mode at higher speeds. Otherwise, the i7-870 is just as fast.

There are two disadvantages of the i7-950 and its cousins. The 1366 motherboards are viewed by many of the experts on here as less proven and more flaky. They also cost more.

If I were spending my own money, I would buy i5-750 or i7-860. If I were in your situation and getting my choice of processors for a fixed price, I would go with the i7-870. If you place a high value on the advantages I mentioned, you may want to choose the i7-950.

If I have any misconceptions, I trust that the experts here will correct me.

Have fun building!

Dave

[Beetle B.]

From what I have read, there are two main advantages of the 950 and its cousins, namely the triple-channel memory controller and the ability to run dual graphics cards in crossfire mode at higher speeds.

As I have no idea what that means, I'll assume I don't need it - I'll try to read up on it, though.

The 1366 motherboards are viewed by many of the experts on here as less proven and more flaky. They also cost more.

Cost is certainly an issue - but if they really have lower reliability, then it's not an option. I'll look into it.

Thanks!

[glc]

SATA DVD burners are available and recommended over IDE. ESATA is external SATA. Onboard sound is plenty good enough except for audiophiles. DDR3-1600 is our recommendation these days. Firewire can be handy for video work - i.e. to offload camcorders. PCI-E is slowly replacing everything. The current boards have PCI-Ex16 slots for video cards, PCI-Ex1 slots for common addons, and legacy PCI slots. Most current boards also have 1000 mbs LAN onboard.

I think the Asus P7P55D-E will fit your needs. It has a 3 year warranty. This would take an i7-870 and it takes ram in pairs.

[Beetle B.]

DDR3-1600 is our recommendation these days.

Any brands known to be particularly good? Any brands I should avoid? Back when I built my first computer, the mantra was that Crucial was the only reliable one, and all others were risky. I'm hoping this has changed.

Firewire can be handy for video work - i.e. to offload camcorders.

I assume that if I get a motherboard that doesn't have Firewire, I can always get an adapter card for it?

Thanks!

[Khalil]

Originally Posted by Beetle B. Any brands known to be particularly good? Any brands I should avoid? Back when I built my first computer, the mantra was that Crucial was the only reliable one, and all others were risky. I'm hoping this has changed. Thanks!

http://forum.pcmech.com/showthread.php?t=213451

[Beetle B.]

Great! Thanks! I guess I'll get ADATA. I've used their Compact Flash cards - at the time they were the only cheap high speed CF cards, and they've proven to be quite reliable in that category.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Beetle B. I assume that if I get a motherboard that doesn't have Firewire, I can always get an adapter card for it? Thanks!

Yep, but if your camcorder has flash memory(removeable memory card) you won't need it if you install a reader. Also Firewire is really only truely advantaguos over usb 1.0. Usb 2.0 comes real close to firewire, so if you happen to have both -firewire is the prefered choice, but usb 2.0 is quite comparable. What features your camcorder supports will determine if you will want firewire.

If you don't have camcorder then when you do decide to buy one, you can match the features of your pc to your purchase of a camcorder.

oh, and btw 1394 is code for firewire.

[Beetle B.]

Thanks everyone. I ended up with an Asus P7P55D-E Pro, and a GTS250 GT graphics card, and a DDR 1600 ADATA dual channel kit (4GB).

Everything worked out, except for two problems:

1. Minor - bad choice for a power supply - it doesn't have good SATA support. See here.

2. More serious issues with my memory. I don't know if it's the RAM or the MB. Details here.