DELL Fanboi Looks For Alternative...

[Slynky]

Yes, seems I've been a Dell fan a long time and after looking over the customized PC I put together, I'm a bit bothered by price, performance, and selection.

For anyone interested in commenting, here is the Dell (general) config (don't know OEM names of components):

PROCESSORS Intel® Core™ i7-980X processor(12MB L3 Cache, 3.33GHz) OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English WARRANTY AND SERVICE 3 Year Basic Service Plan MEMORY 12GB Tri-Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1066MHz - 6 DIMMs HARD DRIVE 1.5TB Performance RAID 0 (2x750GB SATA 7200 RPM HDDs) VIDEO CARD ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB GDDR5 edit MONITOR 21.5" Dell SX2210 Full HD Monitor with Integrated 2.0 Megapixel Webcam, Dual Microphones OPTICAL DRIVE Dual Drives: Blu-ray Disc (BD) Combo and DVDRW + Roxio Creator 10 Premier - Ultimate Burn/Authoring SPEAKERS No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system SOUND CARD Soundblaster® X-Fi™ Titanium WIRELESS Integrated 10/1000 Ethernet edit KEYBOARD Dell Studio Consumer Multimedia Keyboard MOUSE Dell Studio Optical Mouse MODEM No Modem Option $3,300

First of all, this PC will be used for graphic design, some movie editing, and 3D software (rendering, etc.) such as Poser and Vue Infinite (if anyone has ever heard of them). Also, I have my eye on Mechwarrior 5 (in development...coming out in 2011 sometime?) since I played MS Mechwarrior 3 and 4. Otherwise, my gaming needs aren't so much.

I'm dismayed because of the memory speed of 1066. Upset that I can't opt for the 27" Dell panel without buying the 21.5" that comes with the system (I can't drop it). Finally, one of the main reasons people build their own, price.

Perhaps I'm concerned too much about a small thing with the memory but that shows my ignorance a bit, I guess. But being forced to buy a monitor (with webcam and mic I'll never use) bothers me a bit.

So, why am I a fanboi? Because, despite the prices (etc.) I've paid over the years, I've probably had less than 20 BSODs in the 15 years I've owned them. I know some people whose PC crashes on them once a month. And, the current PC I have (5 years old) has had to have a CD drive replaced (out of warranty). Otherwise, our son has my last system so it's over 8 years old and has a CD drive out (that we haven't bothered to replace). In other words, I've had good luck with durability. And I like plopping down to do some work and not worry about my system crashing in the middle of it.

So, my question is (without anyone doing anything more than 5 minutes of their time), what would be a rough ballpark figure of how much it would take to build me a system like what I have listed above (preferably faster/better) with quality components that would have a good reliability factor?

I currently work in an IT shop but in the past 3-4 years, I've been moved from general helpdesk work to just about fulltime graphic design. That means, 4 years ago, I did rudementary stuff like swap power supplies, cards, memory, CD drives, etc. in addition to software problem troubleshooting.

Thanks in advance !

PS: Hopefully I didn't violate any rules by posting the Dell config.

[David M]

Welcome to the Forum!

You can indeed build a faster and more reliable desktop computer yourself for less.

For your budget, you can build a very fast graphics design/gamer for less than what Dell wants.

I would not go the LGA 1366/X58 route because of instability problems it is having.

Start with the least expensive i-7 quad core 1156 for around $270, the i7-860. They are highly over-clockable if you ever wish to do this.

Buy a reliable board from Asus for the 1156 socket and the P55 chip set, http://usa.asus.com/product.aspx?P_I...Z35&templete=2

Find the Qualified Vendor List for RAM for that board on the Asus website. I prefer Corsair. I would get an 8 Gig kit of 1600 RAM for your graphics design and video editing applications.

For your budget, I would get a 5970 graphics card. Its still the fastest graphics card out there...faster than a 480. The street price is still around $700 though. But that may be coming down to $600 soon when the supply more meets demand.

A case is a personal preference but I really Lian-Li cases. The aluminum work, design and finish is excellent. They are pricey yes but then you have the budget for one. I think they are the best of all the case manufacturers.

For a single 5970 graphics card I would go with a Corsair TX 850 power supply. The big 140mm fan is relatively quiet when there is not a big demand on the power supply.

A WD Black is good because of their speed, reliability and warranty. I would not go RAID-0. Its just not worth it when you consider the increased speed versus the hassle and reduced reliability factor. RAID-0 means you have doubled the chance of a C: drive failure.

Newegg is not the only thing going although they are good. I have been having luck buying off Amazon.com, usually for less than Newegg.

[Slynky]

Originally Posted by David M Welcome to the Forum! You can indeed build a faster and more reliable desktop computer yourself for less. For your budget, you can build a very fast graphics design/gamer for less than what Dell wants. I would not go the LGA 1366/X58 route because of instability problems it is having. Start with the least expensive i-7 quad core 1156 for around $270, the i7-860. They are highly over-clockable if you ever wish to do this. Buy a reliable board from Asus for the 1156 socket and the P55 chip set, http://usa.asus.com/product.aspx?P_I...Z35&templete=2 Find the Qualified Vendor List for RAM for that board on the Asus website. I prefer Corsair. I would get an 8 Gig kit of 1600 RAM for your graphics design and video editing applications. For your budget, I would get a 5970 graphics card. Its still the fastest graphics card out there...faster than a 480. The street price is still around $700 though. But that may be coming down to $600 soon when the supply more meets demand. A case is a personal preference but I really Lian-Li cases. The aluminum work, design and finish is excellent. They are pricey yes but then you have the budget for one. I think they are the best of all the case manufacturers. For a single 5970 graphics card I would go with a Corsair TX 850 power supply. The big 140mm fan is relatively quiet when there is not a big demand on the power supply. A WD Black is good because of their speed, reliability and warranty. I would not go RAID-0. Its just not worth it when you consider the increased speed versus the hassle and reduced reliability factor. RAID-0 means you have doubled the chance of a C: drive failure. Newegg is not the only thing going although they are good. I have been having luck buying off Amazon.com, usually for less than Newegg.

Thanks loads for your time and comments !

To reply...

RAID-0: Yes, I dabble back and forth over RAID 0 and RAID !. But, I have a backup program that I use that automatically (on boot up) backs up specified directories/folders to a third spindle (I plan to move that drive to the new PC intact so long as there is not a problem with Windows 7 from XP). So, I think...I back up religiously, if one of the RAID 0 drives bombs, I can recover (except for the hassle of the rebuild). My current PC has been going that way for 5 years. BUT, Murphy might be lying in wait for me... LOL. So, would you go RAID-1 or just forget the RAID altogether?

GPU: No problem with the 5970 price. Hoping it might come down a bit but if it doesn't, I'll spring for it if it's considered stable. Thanks for the suggestioin.

PSU: Is there such a thing as having too much power? Always been a believer in more than enough but if it adds to the heat problem, I guess that's a concern.

CPU: I've done some reading and I think I understand the discussion about the 900+ series costs and just overclocking an 860....

(crap...LOL...someone has an Outlook problem and I'm the only one here...finish later)

[Doom]

I converted from commercial PC dealers two years ago when I wanted a kick-butt gaming system but didn't want to drop $2700 for one...and that was the cheapest one I could find. I ended up with a great system for $1500, and two years later it's still a mean rig. In other words...this is the place to be to meet your goals. So here are some thoughts:

- PSU: You can't have too much power...but you can pay for power that you aren't going to use. Getting a 1000W PSU seems like too much unless you want to have several hard drives or several graphics cards. I recommend Corsair for the PSU. They have a 750W modular system (i.e. only the wires you need) that works well and gets good reviews. I recommend them for RAM also.
- Graphics is preference based. Most folks here swear by ATI for good reason. They have the fastest chip on the market right now and are generally lower cost than nVidia. That being said...my personal preference is for nVidia and I've bought all EVGA products in the past. I've been very satisfied. It's really about your budget and any preference. Check out www.tomshardware.com for their monthly updates on the best card for the money. They also have a hierarchy of all card types by performance.
- Graphics Part Deux: Everybody's opinion is different, so there's no real "correct" answer. I don't think the top of the line card (nVidia or ATI) is worth the money. You nearly double the price over a second or third tier card without a similar jump in performance. I've never spent more than $350 on a GPU and have always been really happy with performance even on demanding games. Besides...the card you spend a fortune on today will be dirt cheap in two years.
- Monitor: Dell makes computers...not monitors. I think you're much better off going for something extremely nice like a Samsung. I've had two (21.5" regular and 23" LED) and they both rock. I had a problem with the first monitor after two years. Samsung paid to have it shipped to them, fixed it, and shipped it back to me within 10 business days.
- Agree that case is all about your personal style. Make sure it's large enough for a big graphics card though. I recommend the Antec 900 (or the newer Antec 900 Two) and the Cooler Master 690. I liked tool-less installation on the Cooler Master more...but overall cooling and appearance goes to the Antec 900. Both can fit just about any video card out there.
- Backup: One option (probably not the most efficient...but works for me. I got two identical hard drives and put one in an external case. I then got Acronis True Image software and make a clone of my primary hard drive each month. Now, if the hard drive ever fails I've got a clone I can just switch out immediately.

[flanzig1]

PC power supplies provide only the amount that the system needs. And it is recommended to have a PSU at least 20% above peak power useage from your particular system. This will lessen stress on the PSU on high loads.

[glc]

If you came to me with those requirements, this is what I'd build for you:

Case: COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
$69.99
$59.99 with Rebate
Free Shipping!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119137

Motherboard: ASUS P7P55D-E LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
$154.99
Free Shipping!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131620

CPU: Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I7860
$279.99
Free Shipping!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115214

Ram (2 sets): G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ
$109.99 (x2)
Free Shipping!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231193

Video card: DIAMOND 5870PE51G Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity
$419.99
Free Shipping!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814103084

PSU: CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-650HX 650W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
$119.99
$109.99 with Rebate
Free Shipping!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139012

OS/apps drive: Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC128MAG-1G1 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
$399.99
Free Shipping!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148348

ICY DOCK MB882SP-1S-1B 2.5" to 3.5" SSD & SATA Hard Drive Converter - Black
$19.99
Free Shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817994064

NOTE: There's also a 256gb version of this drive for $679.99.

Data drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARS 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
$139.99
Free Shipping!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136514

Opticals: LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk SATA Model WH10LS30 LightScribe Support - OEM
$149.99
Free Shipping!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136181

LITE-ON CD/DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model iHAS124-04 - OEM
$19.99
Free Shipping!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106289

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
$99.99
Free Shipping!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116754

I have not speced out a keyboard or mouse - those are items that have to appeal to you. I also did not spec out a soundcard, I recommend you give the onboard sound a chance before you buy one. Without those items and with the 128gb SSD, the bottom line is about $2100 before a monitor, and I didn't subtract the rebates. Some of these items also have promo codes right now.

You want a 27" monitor?

ASUS MT276HE Black 27" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor
$349.99
$319.99 with Rebate
$9.99 Shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824236080

Doom, FYI, many Dell monitors are made by Samsung. Most Dell monitors are very good pieces of hardware.

[Slynky]

Well, I've just been studying the replies, especially from glc, and my wife has informed me it's 6 mins. past bedtime.

I'll look this over some more tomorrow and give some comments.

First off, thanks again for the fast responses! WOW !

And an initial "good night" question: Can that mobo hold 12 GB of memory or was it just a money consideration?

I'm stoked !

(my wife is worrying I'm going to order a bunch of stuff and it won't work...)

[glc]

The Dell uses a X58 Socket 1366 board which has 6 slots for triple channel memory. The Asus board is a P55 Socket 1156 board that has 4 slots for dual channel memory. You can put 16gb into the Asus, but getting a set of 4gb modules will cost you about $600.

[Doom]

Learn something new each day. My Dell monitors at work must be the exceptions to the rule, though I work for the government which might explain a lot of that (our tech update budget isn't to be envied).

Some stuff may not work right out of the box. Tech is fickle and there are lots of DOA stories out there. However, you're doing your research and that helps a lot.

Post your configuration here before you buy and folks will check it over to make sure there are no glaring mistakes. That's how I built my first, and a few systems later I have yet to have any problems.

[Slynky]

Originally Posted by Doom Learn something new each day. My Dell monitors at work must be the exceptions to the rule, though I work for the government which might explain a lot of that (our tech update budget isn't to be envied). Some stuff may not work right out of the box. Tech is fickle and there are lots of DOA stories out there. However, you're doing your research and that helps a lot. Post your configuration here before you buy and folks will check it over to make sure there are no glaring mistakes. That's how I built my first, and a few systems later I have yet to have any problems.

I plan to check out the config posted above and ask about a variation or three before I settle down and make the order. Only problem is, people keep having problems at work (I work for the government, too) and I have to help them...don't they know I'm in the throes of PC configuration !? (plus I have a poster to finish designing and print today) Sheesh ! :lol:

[David M]

I work in a government situation where I am told I have to go through a specific vendor in order to buy a computer or computer parts. The purpose is to save taxpayer money. Unfortunately for the taxpayer, the vendor is rather expensive. I once itemized a parts list from the required vendor and from another popular internet vendor. The lists showed the internet vendor to be much less expensive. Unfortunately, the rules are the rules.

[Slynky]

Originally Posted by David M I work in a government situation where I am told I have to go through a specific vendor in order to buy a computer or computer parts. The purpose is to save taxpayer money. Unfortunately for the taxpayer, the vendor is rather expensive. I once itemized a parts list from the required vendor and from another popular internet vendor. The lists showed the internet vendor to be much less expensive. Unfortunately, the rules are the rules.

Pretty standard stuff.

Our office loves Dells and they want them exclusively BUT, the government isn't allowed to make large multi-million dollar purchases without bids from other manufacturers. So, to skirt the issue, our office (HQ in Washington DC) gets a contract with a computer services company, dumps several million dollars into their account and tells them to buy Dell computers. Of course, it's more expensive than actually buying them from Dell since the other company takes their "middle-man" profit.

And here I am scrimping on making sure I don't waste a sheet of photo paper...

[Slynky]

Case: COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119137

Looking for 45 minutes at cases and not sure what kind of opportunities I have with the mobo below but one thought crosses my mind...sure doesn't seem like many makers believe in exhausting from the right side of the case. What's up wth that !?

Motherboard: ASUS P7P55D-E LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131620

Buy

CPU: Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I7860
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115214

Ram (2 sets): G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231193

Video card: DIAMOND 5870PE51G Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814103084

PSU: CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-650HX 650W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139012

OS/apps drive: Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC128MAG-1G1 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148348 (NOTE: There's also a 256gb version of this drive for $679.99.)

Buy

ICY DOCK MB882SP-1S-1B 2.5" to 3.5" SSD & SATA Hard Drive Converter - Black
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817994064

Buy

Data drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARS 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136514

Opticals: LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk SATA Model WH10LS30 LightScribe Support - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136181

LITE-ON CD/DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model iHAS124-04 - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106289

Buy

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116754

Buy




[[I plan to return here and go through other items so if you're wondering why there are no comments below the other items...it's time to leave work and head home]]

[glc]

If you are used to right side exhaust, you are used to BTX form factor, which Dell used quite a bit. It never caught on in the custom market.

If you are looking for a high end case, look at Lian-Li aluminum cases. They are THE best.

[Slynky]

Originally Posted by glc If you are used to right side exhaust, you are used to BTX form factor, which Dell used quite a bit. It never caught on in the custom market. If you are looking for a high end case, look at Lian-Li aluminum cases. They are THE best.

Haha, I've never seen a Dell do anything but exhaust out the back. Never a side or a top.

My computer furniture is such that the box sits by a piece of furniture that supports overhead shelves/cabinets and that support blocks 3/4 of the side of a PC. Moving the box to the right would put it by the support that does the other overhead shelf but it could exhaust freely. It's just that there, it would interfere with where my Wacom tablet goes and where I mouse. Le sigh...

So, I noticed while looking around that there are some models that exhaust out the back and top and intake from the front (leaving the sides fully closed). That would seem to be adequate venting. Thoughts? I'm asking because I assume the advantage of having the left-side fans is to pull the heat away from the opposite wall (where the mobo sits) as well as a top-mounted fan.

[Slynky]

Case: COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Black SECC/ ABS ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119137

Thinking of this substitute due to where the Cooler Master vents to, the good remarks made about Lian Li, and this model:

LIAN LI PC-7FN Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
$129
Free Shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811112251

Motherboard: ASUS P7P55D-E LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131620

Buy

CPU: Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I7860
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115214

Ram (2 sets): G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231193

Will be looking at getting fastest 16 GB (4 x 4GB)

Video card: DIAMOND 5870PE51G Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814103084

PSU: CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-650HX 650W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139012

OS/apps drive: Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC128MAG-1G1 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148348 (NOTE: There's also a 256gb version of this drive for $679.99.)

Buy

ICY DOCK MB882SP-1S-1B 2.5" to 3.5" SSD & SATA Hard Drive Converter - Black
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817994064

Buy

Data drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARS 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136514

Thoughts on this drive? Not as much space as I'd like, but a good transfer speed and reports are 1.4 million hours MTBF (or entering lowend server equipment)?

Data drive: Western digital DIGITAL VelociRaptor 3.5-inch SATA 6.0Gb/s 10 000 RPM 32MB Buffer
~$300 (out of stock four places I checked)

Opticals: LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk SATA Model WH10LS30 LightScribe Support - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136181

LITE-ON CD/DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model iHAS124-04 - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106289

Buy

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116754

Buy

[Slynky]

Motherboard: ASUS P7P55D-E LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131620

One viewer comment mentioned turning *something* on cut the video (speed) in half and recommended the Pro version of the board. Should I be concerned about this? (heck if I know)

[Slynky]

And speaking of the X58 board, it generally gets higher "eggs" than this board. And Dell sells it (thinking Dell wouldn't sell something that was unstable). So, what's wrong with it and why are people shying away from it?

[glc]

You do not need the Pro version of the motherboard unless you want to run 2 video cards in Crossfire. The primary slot runs at full speed with a single card on the base model.

Velociraptors are not worth the money. If you don't want to use a SSD, use a WD Black, it's just about as fast as the Velociraptor.

The X58 systems just are not completely stable and cost considerably more than the P55. Why is Dell's stable? Probably because they are using downrated ram. I'm going by what Khalil says - he's a professional builder and he says out of 300 X58's his company has built, maybe 10 have been 100% satisfactory.

[Slynky]

Originally Posted by glc You do not need the Pro version of the motherboard unless you want to run 2 video cards in Crossfire. The primary slot runs at full speed with a single card on the base model. Velociraptors are not worth the money. If you don't want to use a SSD, use a WD Black, it's just about as fast as the Velociraptor. The X58 systems just are not completely stable and cost considerably more than the P55. Why is Dell's stable? Probably because they are using downrated ram. I'm going by what Khalil says - he's a professional builder and he says out of 300 X58's his company has built, maybe 10 have been 100% satisfactory.

OUCH ! Not a good number at all for Khalil.

And don't get me wrong, glc, any question I ask isn't being argumentative, it's mostly curiosity/inquisitiveness.

I'm sold on the SSD. With no moving parts, it should (should) last a long time assuming the OEM performed a routine "burn-in" on each one before distribution. So, my comment about the raptors was in lieu of the HDD on the list, NOT the SSD. Sorry if I was confusing.

I'll take a look at the WD Black.

And scan the threads a bit to learn a bit about the benefits / dangers of OC'ing. Would consider OC'ing this one to about 3.6 (+/-) if it's no heat/abuse/reliability problem.

Thanks again, for the comments.

[Slynky]

Originally Posted by glc Velociraptors are not worth the money. If you don't want to use a SSD, use a WD Black, it's just about as fast as the Velociraptor.

Looked at the WD Black Cavier and read a lot of reviews. Especially on the SATA 6.0GB/s model. Not impressive. In fact, when it all comes down to it, the drive you listed is about as solid as any up there. I'll stick with it. Thanks for the help.

[glc]

The 2TB Green should be fast - it's one of the new "EARS" drives - advanced format. It uses 4kb sectors instead of 512b sectors for better efficiency. Don't try to run XP on it, you need Win 7.

[Slynky]

Originally Posted by glc The 2TB Green should be fast - it's one of the new "EARS" drives - advanced format. It uses 4kb sectors instead of 512b sectors for better efficiency. Don't try to run XP on it, you need Win 7.

Thanks for the warning...I'll finally be making the move to Win 7. I think there are some irregularities from running the Crucial SSD on XP as well.

Finalizing the list...price sitting just under $3,000 and that's no monitor. I will probably need some miscellaneous since the WD drive is listed as bare. Not sure what other things I'll need. If I OC this thing to around 3.6, I should get a special heat sink and compound?

[Slynky]

LIAN LI PC-7FN Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $129
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811112251

Motherboard: ASUS P7P55D-E LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $155
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131620

CPU: Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I7860 $279
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819115214

Ram (2 sets): G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL $740
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231314

Video card: DIAMOND 5870PE51G Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity $420
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814103084

CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-750HX 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply $151
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817139010

Crucial RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC256MAG-1G1 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $679
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148349

ICY DOCK MB882SP-1S-1B 2.5" to 3.5" SSD & SATA Hard Drive Converter - Black $20
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817994064

Data drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD20EARS 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $140
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136514

Opticals: LG Black 10X Blu-ray Burner - Bulk SATA Model WH10LS30 LightScribe Support - OEM $150
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136181

LITE-ON CD/DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model iHAS124-04 - OEM $20
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106289

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM $100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16832116754

If I could get some verification that I haven't strayed too far from the "GLC Config" and managed to get stuff that won't "play with other components" correctly, please let me know. You can't imagine the hell I'll go through if this thing doesn't work and I need to sink more money into it--my wife is squinting out of the side of her eyes at this project. She's a Dell fangrrl. :lol:

More specifically, is the CASE OK, is it the correct 4GB memory modules, and will the mobo work in the new case as well as the 750 watt PSU instead of the 650 watt PSU?

Thanks in advance !

[glc]

Do you really think you need 16gb ram? You are paying an incredible premium for those 4gb modules. Before spending $740 I would verify compatibility with both Asus and G.skill!

The motherboard comes with SATA data cables, you don't need anything extra to use a bare hard drive.

PSU is fine. Excellent case choice.

Yes, if you plan on overclocking, you need an aftermarket heat sink.

COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-G1 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long life sleeve CPU Cooler
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103065

[Slynky]

Originally Posted by glc Do you really think you need 16gb ram? You are paying an incredible premium for those 4gb modules. Before spending $740 I would verify compatibility with both Asus and G.skill! The motherboard comes with SATA data cables, you don't need anything extra to use a bare hard drive. PSU is fine. Excellent case choice. Yes, if you plan on overclocking, you need an aftermarket heat sink. COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-G1 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long life sleeve CPU Cooler http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835103065

Yes, I know the RAM is a tough price. I thought maybe I had the (or still do) wrong dimms for that motherboard. You had guesstimated about $600 for the 16 GB and when I could only find chips for $740, I didn't know if I had the right ones. The description sounds the same except for the chip size.

The original one you spec'd for me:

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Timing 9-9-9-24 Cas Latency 9 Cas Latency: 9 Voltage: 1.5V Multi-channel Kit: Dual Channel Kit

The bigger ones I substituted:

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Timing 9-9-9-24-2N Cas Latency 9 Cas Latency: 9 Voltage: 1.5V Multi-channel Kit: Dual Channel Kit

The only thing different is in dark red above (and I have no idea what that means).

So, what do you mean when you say, "I would verify compatibility with both Asus and G.skill!"?

[Slynky]

Oh, and to answer your question, glc...

I'm not sure how much use 16 GB would be for me but I was hoping to have more and not WISH I had more later on (making the 8 GB worthless if I wanted to upgrade).

The OS is supposed to make use of it if the application software will make use of it. In other words, 64 bit OS and 64 bit software. That will be no problem with Adobe CS5 as it's all 64-bit software. It's not uncommon for me to work on 500 MB files in PShop, Adobe's browser, have Outlook open, Illustrator open, InDesign open, couple of browser windows, maybe iTunes.

Confessing, I don't know how much memory that would take. I know at 4 GB now, I'm tired of VM swaps and waiting. But I'm guessing there's a chance I'd bump the limit somtimes.

I'd welcome any discourse in it as I confess I don't know how much memory would be in use for what I described.

[glc]

I would contact both company's support and ask about compatibility.

[Slynky]

Originally Posted by glc I would contact both company's support and ask about compatibility.

I went to the ASUS site and, wow, they sure do want you to look for the answer before they will answer a question. So, after tinkering around on the site a bit, I found and managed to download the QVL (qualified vendor list). The G SKILL memory you listed and the one I listed don't appear on the P7P55D-E ASUS board for approval. And I wasn't about to send them an email.

On the other hand, G SKILL's site is much better and this is what I found:

http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=239&c1=&c2=

Desktop Memory > DDR3 > [ Ripjaws ] F3-12800CL9S-4GBRL / F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL / F3-12800CL9Q-16GBRL [ Ripjaws ] F3-12800CL9S-4GBRL / F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL / F3-12800CL9Q-16GBRL Specification Main Board intel System Desktop System Type DDR3 M/B Chipset Intel P55 CAS Latency 9-9-9-24-2N Capacity 4GB (4GBx1) / 8GB (4GBx2) / 16GB (4GBx4) Speed DDR3-1600 (PC3 12800) Test Voltage 1.5 Volts PCB Registered/Unbuffered Unbuffered Error Checking Non-ECC Type 240-pin DIMM Warranty Lifetime 　Qualified Motherboards List　 ASUS Maximus III Formula ASUS Maximus III Gene ASUS SABERTOOTH 55i ASUS P7P55D-E Premium ASUS P7P55D-E Deluxe ASUS P7P55D-E EVO ASUS P7P55D-E Pro ASUS P7P55D-E ASUS P7P55D Premium ASUS P7P55D Deluxe ASUS P7P55D EVO ASUS P7P55D Pro ASUS P7P55D Gigabyte GA-P55A UD4P Gigabyte GA-P55A UD5 Gigabyte GA-P55A UD6 Gigabyte GA-P55 UD4P Gigabyte GA-P55 UD5 Gigabyte GA-P55 UD6 MSI P55-GD65 MSI P55-GD80 *G.Skill guarantees 2 Dimms dual channel operation would reach announced specification.

So, the motherboard, Motherboard: ASUS P7P55D-E LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard would seem to be OK, but just in case I'm a total idiot, would appreciate someone looking over my shoulder and double-checking my interpretation.

Also, if I'm reading the above correctly, I can buy two 4GB DIMMS for 8GB total and take up two slots and then buy 2 more later after verifying it's OK. That way, I'm only out half as much money if it isn't compatible...

Thanks for any help.

[Slynky]

Well, everything ordered as listed above (except only two 4GB modules for now). However, apparently the 5870 is a hot item and is out of stock several places (and I'm not sure I feel comforatble with some other places I found that have it so).

I am currently waiting on:

Video card: DIAMOND 5870PE51G Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card w/ATI Eyefinity $420

From Amazon. (NewEgg is out, too).

But, the 2GB version of this card is more available from Amazon for $499 (NewEgg is out of the 2GB version, too). I don't mind paying the $80 increase to get it sooner but it would have to (1) fit the Lian Li box I have above, (2) work within the 750 watts of power I have planned, and (3) provide some benefit for the extra money.

Comments, anyone? (thanks !)