First time build - looking for advice

[struby]

I'll start off by saying my name is Andy, I am looking to build a computer for the first time with only knowledge gained from past computer troubles. I have at some point replaced probably half of the parts of my old computer, and will be working with a friend who has built before, so mainly I'm looking for parts advice. Here are my goals and major questions before I list what I feel might be possibly a good set of parts for me:

-A $500 dollar budget without monitor, I have something that will suffice for now

-The ability to run modern games (I am worried about this), but really I want to try the new Starcraft and play Diablo 3 whenever they decide to release it. I also like to play some first person shooters if possible. I don't know how well this goal fits with my budget, so that could be a quick shoot down on my plans.

-I don't want this system to fall out of date very quickly, and if something should, I would like to be able to upgrade, maybe a 5 year life? Is that reasonable?

-I want this to be worth the money, by that I mean, after you look at my plans and goals, could I go grab something off the shelf that will compare to some degree and save myself some trouble.

-Low stress build, I have put myself through some projects in my time, and I tend to get myself into trouble with a small gap in planning or issues with compatibility, I want to put this together and not go, I just wanna send this crap back this is insane.

-I assume you guys won't be, but please don't be afraid to tell me if something is unreasonable, whether for the parts I'm using or the type of build and system use I am going for. Maybe I'm picking too much processor for the rest of my system or anything really, let me know, I am clearly on a budget and I don't want to waste money

-I have a few other questions, but I will put them at the end because they are more purchase related.

That being said, here is what I was thinking:

Processor
AMD Athlon II X4 635 Propus 2.9GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103702

Motherboard - Something I have very little knowledge about
ASUS M4A785-M AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131595
should I consider the -LM, what is the difference

RAM - Aware of RAM and it's importance, just not sure what a good company is
suggestions here would be nice, but I'll throw out an option I saw anyway - thinking 4 gigs (2x2)
Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model KHX6400D2K2/4G
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820104001

Hard Drive
Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136320

Video Card - I am thinking this should be the major gaming concern
ASUS EAH4650/DI/1GD2(LP) Radeon HD 4650 1GB 128-bit DDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Low Profile Ready Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814121340

DVD drive - little concern to me
Sony Optiarc Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA DVD/CD Rewritable Drive - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827118030

Case - Also of little concern to me, but a decently sturdy cheap case with good air flow and preferably not low USB ports would be nice
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811233059
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119203


For now I am now worried about speakers, keyboard, mouse, and like I said, monitor, although I will probably get a monitor eventually so I don't have to double up use on my TV. Am I missing anything else? Here are a few last questions, if anyone isn't tired of reading my topic yet.

-What should be my cooling concerns with these or any other cases, should I buy an extra fan?

-I hear alot about overclocking, should it be something I consider?

-Is ordering all of this from newegg.com most likely the best or a very good option?

Thank you very much

-Andy

[pam123]

Yes ordering form Newegg is the best option.

Now that that's said, what power supply and what OS ?

The mid-tower case is a better bet if you have future upgrades in mind.

Last, but not least, if you can save up a few more bucks get a 5770 video card the 4650 won't support the coming DX 11 games and you're doing your best to "future proof" your rig.

[struby]

I have also completely forgotten I need power supply advice pretty much from the ground up. I will probably run Windows 7 unless someone tells me that's a bad idea.

That is alot to spend on a video card at like 150 dollars, but I'll consider it. It's not so much that I won't have money, but rather that I will be trying to save for the upcoming year.

edit: both cases say mid-tower, I like the all black one more so hopefully that's the one you meant

[pam123]

I like plain black cases so I agree, sorry about the confusion I was thinking of a micro-case that had similar numbers.

Windows 7 64 bit is what you need ( http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/ These are the stats that developers use when they decide on the requirements for their new games. You want to be ahead of them. Nothing extreme but far enough in front that you have can run current and upcoming games without a hassle. ) and since you'll want to re-install the OS when you upgrade it should be the retail (Not the OEM) version.

I recommend a 650 watt power supply from a good company. That way you won't end up replacing the psu later or risk having it fail and take the rest of your components with it.
I use this one : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371015
This should see you through several upgrades.

About the video card.
If you have to buy a lesser card then do so but be aware that if you're far enough behind the curve as a gamer you'll be constantly playing catch-up and the final cost will be higher.
We're not talking top of the line here (You can check the price for a 5970 on Newegg) just a solid mainstream card that will keep you in the running for the next few years and yes $150 is a fair price for that.

[struby]

I appretiate your imput very much. A member of another forum suggested a 5770 video card as well, he also suggested a motherboard/RAM swap that would put me up to DDR 3 for a reasonable price, which he said would be a performance boost. I was wondering what you thought about that suggestion. Where he differed from you, and I am not saying who is right I'm just asking, is he suggested this: Corsair 400W PSU - $30 power supply. The one you suggested is much more pricey and I was wondering your thoughts on the difference

[glc]

400 watts is not enough for a 5770 - ATI recommends minimum 450. Being high quality, it should be okay but I wouldn't take a chance.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371004

The Antec Basiq 500 is the cheapest PSU I'd use.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371016

I'd use the Basiq 550 Plus if you need an 8 pin aux connector.

[Nikon]

i was going to reccomend you stray away from nvidia cards for SC2, i play it religoisly (i have beta)

there are far too many people complaining of overheating and damaged cards due to sc2 for it to be coincidence. i know a game 'cant' or atleast shouldnt be able to cause physical damage to a computer, but there are about 100 different people with the same complaint arising after they started playing SC2.

ati hasnt had any problems with it that i know of.

[struby]

which is fine because the 5770 is an ATI right. What 5770 would you recommend?

how do I know if I need an 8 pin aux connector?

[struby]

I was also suggested this mobo/ram upgrade. to MSI 870A-G54 AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard and ddr3 ram

edit: this is the video card he suggested, is there a cheaper alternative that will do me fine or is this what i'm lookin at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814150447

like this for instance

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161317

[glc]

Get the HIS card, not the XFX. I'd also recommend you stick wiith Asus motherboards.

To see if it needs an 8 pin, look at a detailed pic of the motherboard, the socket is generally near the CPU. Some have a 4 pin, some have an 8 pin, and some have an 8 pin with a plastic plug over 4 of the pins. If it has either of the latter 2, get an 8 pin PSU.

[struby]

I feel as though newegg keeps throwing combo deals at me and I could look for what combos become the cheapest all day. first i saw that there was a combo with that video card and ram that was similar except dual channel, that made it like 10 or 20 dollars cheaper, the ram was the same brand and everything as far as I could tell, is dual channel better?

then I found a combo with the video card and a power supply, and while I don't know who to believe, more people told me to go 500 or 550, . so here is my shopping cart as of now, is that power supply a good brand, should I look into that dual channel ram deal, is there a cheaper video card alternative (possibly still at 5770, and finally, will all this stuff work together?


Sony Optiarc 24X DVD/CD Rewritable Drive Black SATA Model AD-7240S-0B - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827118030

COOLER MASTER Elite RC-310-BWN1-GP Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811119203

Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136320

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231277

COMBO -$20:
XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.419148
AND
OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ550FTY 550W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V SLI Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.419148

COMBO -$20
AMD Athlon II X4 635 Propus 2.9GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor Model ADX635WFGIBOX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.394170
AND
MSI 870A-G54 AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...t=Combo.394170

or did this combo thing make me shy away from stuff I should have stuck with?

it totals to 620 as of now

[struby]

this is getting really confusing, so I went back to the original, but I switched it with this ASUS board instead, it has DDR3 and sticks with the ASUS name
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131406

I think it is only 4 pin though, is that a problem? Would it now be an ok idea to go with that 500 W power source suggested above?

[glc]

That Asus board is 4 pin, so you can use the Antec Basiq 500. Get the HIS video card, and something other than G.skill ram - suggest Corsair, Kingston, Crucial, or A-Data.

Don't get locked into combo deals unless they are all acceptable components.

[struby]

that made me feel at ease

would you suggest ram with the same specs as this, or would I be ok cheaper

G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL

[struby]

In general, I like the advise coming from this board more, but for the sake of making myself more confident, here is a response I got to the following setup, which is where I am at now:

hard drive, dvd drive, and case are not listed, but total $115

ASUS Motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131406

ATI video card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814161317

500W power supply:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371004

RAM that I want an alternative too, but I am wondering, are these good specs for my price range, or should I go to different DDR3, what is the difference within the DDR3 type:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817371004

AMD Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103702


RESPONSE:

"I would recommend against that power supply. It only has 2 SATA power connectors, so that means only 1 hard drive and 1 optical drive unless you want to get some converters. And while Antec is a decent brand, it is not 80 plus certified. I looked it up and it said about 70% efficiency max. So while it says it is a higher wattage then the 400W corsair I recommended, it's actually not really going to be.

That motherboard is nice, but it is micro atx, so everything is crammed together. Not my preference unless you need that size for the case. Also no USB 3.0 and SATA 6GB/s. The board I recommended gives you that and an extra PCI Express 2.0 x 16 for just $20 more. These things are buy no means necessary, but for just $20 more you get a whole new world of upgrade paths that will extend the life of your computer significantly.

Motherboards have two power connections, the main 24 pin, and a 4 pin 12 V rail. I wasn't aware that some motherboards take 2 12V rails, maybe the enthusiasts boards, but you definitely only need one."

[Nikon]

your links are all broken

differences in ram of the same nature (ddr2, ddr3 etc) are speed based, and cas latency (how fast the memory can exchange information) are the main things to look at. higher speeds and lower latencys make for a faster machine assuming the CPU can handle the information at those speeds.

[struby]

phew, I wish I would have just asked for the best gaming setup for that price, maybe I should repost. That or, can anyone just throw my stuff aside and give me the best setup for gaming that will do what I want for the cheapest they would suggest going. I don't want to be disappointed and I don't want it to run a game and then a year from now be falling behind. Given that I want to do this on a budget, but not fall behind too quickly or be disappointed, can anyone make any suggestions.

[struby]

I have seen alot about the gaming computer for $1000 number, is that maybe a mark I should consider saving up and going for instead in terms of quality and longevity?

[pam123]

Actually you're close to that now with the advice you've been getting from everyone.
Decent video card, a psu that you won't have to switch out when you buy a new video card in a few years, Retail copy of Win 7 (Which won't lock you into your current hardware.) are all things that add to longevity and general upgradability.

edit : You have to fix the links so we can tell what components you're considering now.

[struby]

ok, thanks again everyone, I think I'll think about my options for a bit and maybe repost when I know specifically what my budget is and without all of the basic questions.